Constitutional Amendment - The Management of Martian Civilizations

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-19 13:32:40

Constitutional Amendment

Archaeologists have studied the sudden collapse of Maya civilization. Clifford Brown and Walter Witschey have asserted that the Maya civilization had become a ?self-organised critical system? (Destined for Destruction, by Kate Ravilious, in New Scientist magazine, January 10-16, 2004). ?The main characteristic of self-organised critical systems is an instability that rises progressively until, on occasion, the system suddenly ?resets? itself to a more stable configuration.? In the case of a sociocultural system, this ?resetting? is accompanied by warfare, plague, famine, or other process that reduces the ratio of people to resources.

Being personally involved in the collapse of a civilization is usually an unpleasant experience. When we contemplate the construction of a new civilization on Mars, we can ask whether the people to resources ratio should be maintained the old fashioned way (i.e., by warfare, plague, or famine) or whether there is a humanitarian way to keep that ratio at a stable and sustainable level.

I believe that Martians should manage their people to resources ratio in a humanitarian way. They should study the dynamics of self-organized critical systems and that study should focus on the collapse of sociocultural systems and what can be done to prevent such disasters.

My essay on "The Problem of Owning Mars" contains a draft Martian constitution ( [http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/owningmars.htm]http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/owningmars.htm ). I have added an ?Amendment I" to that draft. That Amendment reads as follows:

?Amendment 1. Each application for a Settlement Charter shall include a Sociocultural Development Plan. The plan shall contain an ethnographic description of the settlement that the applicants plan to establish. After the issuance of a Settlement Charter, the people who hold the charter shall annually review their Sociocultural Development Plan. During that review, they may amend the plan and, if they amend the plan, they shall deliver a copy of the amended plan to the Terrestrial Embassy of the Provisional Government of Mars.

?When the people who hold a Settlement Charter establish a Martian settlement, their Sociocultural Development Plan shall automatically become a part of the ordinances of the settlement. The members of the settlement shall annually review their settlement's Sociocultural Development Plan. During that review, the plan may be amended and, if the plan is amended, a copy of the amended plan shall be transmitted to the Terrestrial Embassy of the Provisional Government of Mars.?

B. F. Skinner wrote, ?The task of a cultural designer is to accelerate the development of practices which bring the remote consequences of behavior into play? (Beyond Freedom and Dignity, page 143). The foregoing Amendment brings the remote consequences of behavior into play by requiring people examine the long-term implications of how their society is developing. I hope that such examinations will help people to avoid the agonies of having their societies periodically ?reset? the old fashioned way.

clark · 2004-01-19 13:37:25

If you have catholics in your City, you're gunna have a hell of a time convincing them to use birth control.

.? In the case of a sociocultural system, this ?resetting? is accompanied by warfare, plague, famine, or other process that reduces the ratio of people to resources.

Mars it will be power failure, mechanical failure, oxygen consumption, rocket fuel scarcity, fissionable material scaricity, and of course, population density.

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-19 17:32:39

It's truly a brave new world.
Let's say a UN or US colony follows Scott's program, carefully controlling their population so as not to exceed their resources. Everything runs quite smoothly, the colony is well on it's way to a slow and steady, manageable growth.

Then another country sets up a colony on the other side of the planet. This nation, which we'll call the Republic of Badestas, just keeps breeding like rabbits. Pretty soon the domes get crowded, so they stripmine to get raw materials to build more. Everyone is working their ass off trying to stay one step ahead of starvation.

Meanwhile, the people of New Euthenia are comfortably going about the business of settling Mars. Sure, the government periodically has to perfom forced abortions, but hey, we're trying to keep our quality of life up and not starve to death. Control yourselves, people.

Uh oh. Badestas has expanded right into Euthenia's border, built over a conveniently placed aquifier. "Why can't you people control your population?" the Euthenian ambassador asks. "Why? We have a whole planet," the Badestas ambassador replies.

Jump ahead ten years. Euthenia is under new management.

When given the choice between stifling your population growth or expanding into new territory, always expand. Otherwise you'll be expanded into by someone less bound by trendy social engineering dogma.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-19 21:29:01

Cobra:

You wrote, "When given the choice between stifling your population growth or expanding into new territory, always expand. Otherwise you'll be expanded into by someone less bound by trendy social engineering dogma."

I disagree with your prediction. The people of Mars will be smart enough to realize that if they conduct themselves in an aggressively expansionistic way then they will alarm their neighbors and thereby cause those neighbors to begin building weapons.

The Hutterites are a good an example of responsible, non-aggressive expansionism. The Hutterites are pacifists and they are the fastest growing population on Earth (an average of 10 children per married couple). The Hutterites have a policy of not building so many of their colonies in any one county that they would threaten the majority status of their non-Hutterite neighbors. The Hutterites are not interested in taking control of local governments. The Hutterites know that government is an institution that has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force. The Hutterites do not want to use force against each other or against their non-Hutterite neighbors so they strive to remain in the minority.

The Hutterites practice non-violence and they have the good sense not to threaten their neighbors. The people of Mars could be and probably will be just as smart as the Hutterites.

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-20 17:05:24

Even in my example, the expansionism was not particularly aggressive. The slower, less expansionist population can't help but be overwhelmed.

As for the Hutterite example, it misses the point. They are a minority that has always been so. There was no Hutterite state. They have never been a "people" in the proper sense of the word. They exist within the societies of others, not as an independent entity. The example assumes that:

A: They set up a colony of their own, not as a minority group within some other colony.

B: That their neighbors will share their sensibilities concerning the overpowering through growth of other peoples.

I see no reason to accept either of these assumptions.

A.J.Armitage · 2004-01-21 02:51:15

Given a choice, would you go to the colony that does want to play with your mind (in addition to forcing abortions on your wife), or one that lets you be to go about your business?

Exactly. Badestas win, and not just on birthrate.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-23 02:06:43

Cobra:

You wrote, "Even in my example, the expansionism was not particularly aggressive." The expansion that you described, the actual invasion of another settlement's territory, is highly aggressive.

The draft constitution that I wrote provides that a settlement's Center Monument may not be located within 21 kilometers of any other settlement's Center Monument. That rule would generate a settlement pattern that leaves a 1-kilometer-wide buffer zone between settlement boundaries. Thus, there would be no boundary disputes or border wars.

I included this 21-kilometer rule in the draft constitution so that the United Nations General Assembly would (1) see the constitution as a plan that promotes the peaceful and orderly settlement of Mars and then (2) ratify the Mars Society's adoption of that constitution.

Yes, a slower growing population would be "overwhelmed" in the numerical sense but that does not have to lead to warfare and genocide. If people respect the 21-kilometer rule then there will not be any warfare on Mars.

Many science fiction authors have spiced up their works by creating war stories on Mars. That kind of fiction can be entertaining but people should not accept it as the way that things will be on Mars. We do NOT have to create circumstances that will lead to genocide.

Pendragon · 2004-01-23 09:40:17

We do NOT have to create circumstances that will lead to genocide.

Then I have a new suggestion: Only robots can colonize mars. But then that leads to another problem. "Battle Bots on Mars" would be a hit TV show, I'm sure.

Bill White · 2004-01-23 09:45:50

If people respect the 21-kilometer rule then there will not be any warfare on Mars.

True, yet if men were angels such laws would not be necessary.

Just remember that in American popular culture the hero/anti-hero who "breaks all the rules" is often looked upon with admiration and respect. The first rule for society building is to understand the most people don't like following rules and are ingenious at thinking up excuses why the rules should include exceptions for them.

A society that works only when its rules are followed cannot survive outside the classroom. A genuinely functional society will work well even when its members are all working their hardest to evade the rules.

= = =

Unless or until men become angels good societies need to establish "balance of power" and "checks and balances" on its members. Sound familiar?

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-23 13:15:02

Bill:

The Charter of the United Nations begins with these words, "We the peoples of the United Nations determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind..."

I considered these words, and the provisions of the Outer Space Treaty and the Moon Treaty, when I drafted the Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars. That draft constitution provides a foundation for the peaceful and orderly settlement of Mars and I believe that the U.N. General Assembly would agree.

My draft constitution provides a legal foundation for groups of settlers to organize local governments. It does NOT require them to be theocrats or democrats, or capitalists or communists.

I have proposed that an international consortium build a prototype Martian settlement named The City of Euthenia, which would have as its primary goal the construction of a similar city on Mars. People who disagree with this colonization strategy can compose their own settlement design. They can do so within the context of my draft constitution by supposing that they have obtained a Settlement Charter from the Provisional Government of Mars. You can do that. You can post your colonization strategy and settlement design on the World Wide Web at no cost via Yahoo (geocities.com). And then we can discuss the relative merits of your design and my design.

clark · 2004-01-23 13:54:37

Scott,

How do you propose to get people to believe in the words and the ideas?

Ian · 2004-01-23 14:56:11

Constitutional Amendment

Archaeologists have studied the sudden collapse of Maya civilization. Clifford Brown and Walter Witschey have asserted that the Maya civilization had become a ?self-organised critical system? (Destined for Destruction, by Kate Ravilious, in New Scientist magazine, January 10-16, 2004). ?The main characteristic of self-organised critical systems is an instability that rises progressively until, on occasion, the system suddenly ?resets? itself to a more stable configuration.? In the case of a sociocultural system, this ?resetting? is accompanied by warfare, plague, famine, or other process that reduces the ratio of people to resources.

Being personally involved in the collapse of a civilization is usually an unpleasant experience. When we contemplate the construction of a new civilization on Mars, we can ask whether the people to resources ratio should be maintained the old fashioned way (i.e., by warfare, plague, or famine) or whether there is a humanitarian way to keep that ratio at a stable and sustainable level.

I believe that Martians should manage their people to resources ratio in a humanitarian way. They should study the dynamics of self-organized critical systems and that study should focus on the collapse of sociocultural systems and what can be done to prevent such disasters.

My essay on "The Problem of Owning Mars" contains a draft Martian constitution ( [http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/owningmars.htm]http://www.geocities.com/scott956282743/owningmars.htm ). I have added an ?Amendment I" to that draft. That Amendment reads as follows:

?Amendment 1. Each application for a Settlement Charter shall include a Sociocultural Development Plan. The plan shall contain an ethnographic description of the settlement that the applicants plan to establish. After the issuance of a Settlement Charter, the people who hold the charter shall annually review their Sociocultural Development Plan. During that review, they may amend the plan and, if they amend the plan, they shall deliver a copy of the amended plan to the Terrestrial Embassy of the Provisional Government of Mars.

?When the people who hold a Settlement Charter establish a Martian settlement, their Sociocultural Development Plan shall automatically become a part of the ordinances of the settlement. The members of the settlement shall annually review their settlement's Sociocultural Development Plan. During that review, the plan may be amended and, if the plan is amended, a copy of the amended plan shall be transmitted to the Terrestrial Embassy of the Provisional Government of Mars.?

B. F. Skinner wrote, ?The task of a cultural designer is to accelerate the development of practices which bring the remote consequences of behavior into play? (Beyond Freedom and Dignity, page 143). The foregoing Amendment brings the remote consequences of behavior into play by requiring people examine the long-term implications of how their society is developing. I hope that such examinations will help people to avoid the agonies of having their societies periodically ?reset? the old fashioned way.

What about the inclusion of chaos theory in there. There are many things that are unpredictable such as "human behavior" and "the environment". The weather is not very predictable and neither is dice. Also I don't want any Eugenics programs to be set up in this amendment. I want the martian colonists to avoid having steralization programs like the Nazis did.

Ian · 2004-01-23 15:08:54

Why would the colonists want to build monuments on mars?

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-23 16:02:59

Scott, let me first say that while I strongly disagree with many of your proposals here, I find them interesting and thought provoking. You have clearly given the subject considerable thought. While I am going to attack, it is merely on a philosophical level.

Cobra:
You wrote, "Even in my example, the expansionism was not particularly aggressive." The expansion that you described, the actual invasion of another settlement's territory, is highly aggressive.

It was not my intent to imply a forcible invasion so much as the surrounding area falling under control of the expanding colony. The colony which refuses to expand its own territory and influence gradually loses influence and in time becomes irrelevant and dependent on others. Shortly thereafter, it ceases to exist as an independent entity.

The draft constitution that I wrote provides that a settlement's Center Monument may not be located within 21 kilometers of any other settlement's Center Monument. That rule would generate a settlement pattern that leaves a 1-kilometer-wide buffer zone between settlement boundaries. Thus, there would be no boundary disputes or border wars.

Does this constitution also mandate zero population growth and provide a fool-proof mechanism for enforcement? Does Mars have absolutely equal distribution of resources over its surface? Unless you can answer an emphatic "yes" to both questions, the entire premise is flawed.

As a colony grows it will need more living space. Actually, I'm going to use the German Lebensraum just for the hell of it. The growing colony will need to expand it's lebensraum. If colonies are within the 21 Kilometer arrangement to start, it won't be long before that 1K buffer becomes a real nuisance. Sure, they can expand away from each other, but eventually they'll run into neighbors there too. Maybe they can expand in a convoluted web of 1K buffer zones in order to comply with the constitution and maybe they can't. If not, either the settlements will fight each other or they will fight the authorities trying to enforce an irrational and arbitrary rule. If a particularly valuable piece of land is thrown into the mix it heightens the potential fo conflict.

Either the planet gets mined and divided between all colonies equally and selective abortions and sterilizations become the norm to maintain the needed zero population growth, or the whole plan is unworkable. Not to mention the people that will work against it anyway. How many involuntary sterilizations, deaths and "re-education" programs are acceptable?

Yes, a slower growing population would be "overwhelmed" in the numerical sense but that does not have to lead to warfare and genocide. If people respect the 21-kilometer rule then there will not be any warfare on Mars.

I was thinking that cultural assimilation would be more likely than genocide, but we never can tell what might happen. There will be warfare on Mars eventually, unless we stay the hell off the planet! To deny this is to indulge in preposterous and dangerous fantasy.

Bill:
The Charter of the United Nations begins with these words, "We the peoples of the United Nations determined to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which twice in our lifetime has brought untold sorrow to mankind..."
I considered these words, and the provisions of the Outer Space Treaty and the Moon Treaty, when I drafted the Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars.

And therein lies the problem. The Moon and Outer Space Treaties are based in flawed quasi-Marxist concepts and the UN charter is little better. All three examples are deeply flawed. I would have started with the Constitution of the United States of America and worked from there, but you are certainly entitled to your approach. But don't be surprised when it doesn't work and people subvert it at every opportunity.

My draft constitution provides a legal foundation for groups of settlers to organize local governments. It does NOT require them to be theocrats or democrats, or capitalists or communists.

But it does require them to accept the principles within that constitution, which like it or not represent an ideological framework all its own.

Scott,
How do you propose to get people to believe in the words and the ideas?

Electric shocks?

Well, I suppose it's time to work on that treatise on Martian combat again... Maybe for the '04 conference, see if I can get shunned for heresy again.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-23 21:12:52

Cobra:

You wrote, "The Moon and Outer Space Treaties are based in flawed quasi-Marxist concepts and the UN charter is little better. All three examples are deeply flawed." I have a bachelors degree in economics. I have read the works of Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Karl Marx, etc. I do not see "quasi-Marxist" concepts in the UN charter. And even if you do that is totally irrelevant. We have to deal with international laws as they are not as you would like them to be.

You wrote, "I would have started with the Constitution of the United States of America and worked from there, but you are certainly entitled to your approach." A Martian settlement of a few hundred people does not need a governance structure as complex as the governance structure established by the U.S. Constitution. A few hundred people are NOT going to divide themselves into a number of States and then elect Senators and Representatives.

The U.S. Constitution contains provisions for declaring war and for organizing an army and a navy. Martians should not adopt a constitution that promotes such foolishness.

You wrote, "There will be warfare on Mars eventually, unless we stay the hell off the planet! To deny this is to indulge in preposterous and dangerous fantasy." Do you fantasize about going to Mars and killing people? If you were going to emigrate to Mars, would you take weapons with you? What kind of weapons? Swords? Rifles? Nuclear bombs?

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-23 21:17:01

Ian:

You asked, "Why would the colonists want to build monuments on mars?" A settlement's Center Monument could be as simple as a metal rod that is sharpened at one end so that it can be hammered into the ground. Professional surveyors refer to such devices as "survey monuments."

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-23 22:39:31

Clark:

You asked, "How do you propose to get people to believe in the words and the ideas?"

From a legal perspective, the settlement strategy that I have proposed is "procedural" rather than "substantive." I have not and will not propose a Martian constitution which provides that all Martians are created equal and that they have a set of unalienable rights. The people of each Martian settlement can adopt ordinances that prescribe what rights and obligations the members of a settlement have. That is the appropriate level for "substantive" matters to be decided.

The draft Martian constitution that I wrote provides steps that people can take to establish a settlement. Those steps are similar to how people would go about forming a corporation.

Thinking about this from a procedural perspective, the next step for me would be to ask the Mars Society to adopt the constitution that I drafted. If the Mars Society did adopt it then the Society would appoint someone to ask the United Nations to ratify the constitution. Then, if the United Nations did ratify it, the Mars society would adopt statutes that provide for the election of officers of the Provisional Government of Mars. Those officers could organize a Mars Development Bank and then the Bank could invite a number of nations to participate in an international consortium to colonize Mars. The consortium might build a prototype Martian settlement, something like my proposal for The City of Euthenia.

Palomar · 2004-01-24 08:01:30

*IMO, socially engineering groups of humans is bound to be as easy as herding cats.

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-24 10:06:53

*IMO, socially engineering groups of humans is bound to be as easy as herding cats.

--Cindy

Well said, Cindy. Exactly!

Cobra:
You wrote, "The Moon and Outer Space Treaties are based in flawed quasi-Marxist concepts and the UN charter is little better. All three examples are deeply flawed." I have a bachelors degree in economics. I have read the works of Adam Smith, David Ricardo, Karl Marx, etc. I do not see "quasi-Marxist" concepts in the UN charter. And even if you do that is totally irrelevant. We have to deal with international laws as they are not as you would like them to be.

The Moon and Outer Space Treaties are essentially Marxist. I simply stated that the UN charter wasn't much better, not that it too was Marxist. The two treaties prohibit governmental claims and are either ambiguos or hostile to private claims, thereby making colonization and development of celestial bodies almost impossible under them. Common heritage of Mankind and all that crap. The UN charter is simply a flawed system.

You wrote, "I would have started with the Constitution of the United States of America and worked from there, but you are certainly entitled to your approach." A Martian settlement of a few hundred people does not need a governance structure as complex as the governance structure established by the U.S. Constitution. A few hundred people are NOT going to divide themselves into a number of States and then elect Senators and Representatives.

Fair enough. I assume then that your proposal is for a temporary government that will be discarded when the population grows too large for it.

You wrote, "There will be warfare on Mars eventually, unless we stay the hell off the planet! To deny this is to indulge in preposterous and dangerous fantasy." Do you fantasize about going to Mars and killing people? If you were going to emigrate to Mars, would you take weapons with you? What kind of weapons? Swords? Rifles? Nuclear bombs?

I find the prospect of warfare on Mars horrifying. I've given the subject a fair amount of thought and the avenues of attack are virtually endless while a complete defense is almost impossible. Think of every terrorist group in the world having a few neutron bombs and that's sort of the situation.

That said, it's going to happen. To believe that large numbers of humans can live anywhere longterm without fighting is to ignore basic human nature and all of our history. It is unsubstantiated fantasy.

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-24 15:51:48

Cobra:

You wrote, "The two treaties prohibit governmental claims and are either ambiguous or hostile to private claims, thereby making colonization and development of celestial bodies almost impossible under them."

I pointed out in my essay titled The Problem of Owning Mars that, under the Moon Treaty, it is possible to establish "legal norms" for Mars. I have proposed a set of legal norms titled Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars. Under those norms, people can establish municipal governments and then adopt ordinances that provide for the private ownership of land, homes, and businesses. I believe that the members of the U.N. General Assembly will view this as a completely reasonable procedure for colonizing Mars.

The first paragraph of the Outer Space Treaty reads, "The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind." The peoples of undeveloped, third-world countries cannot build rockets that can travel to Mars and back but "all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development," could participate in The Euthenia Project. I therefore believe that the U.N. General Assembly would ratify the Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars if the Mars Society asked the U.N. to ratify it.

I have attempted to formulate a Mars colonization strategy that is as broadly inclusive as possible. Even a poor country could summon enough resources to build a national neighborhood in The City of Euthenia. I believe that this is one of the strongest points in favor of my proposal.

You quoted a previous message that reads, "socially engineering groups of humans is bound to be as easy as herding cats." I agree that getting people from all over the world to come together to found a protoMartian culture will be very difficult. That is why The City of Euthenia has national neighborhoods and experimental neighborhoods. After the national neighborhoods are constructed and the people of the city have lived together for a year or so they can then start coming together to discuss completing the unfinished experimental neighborhoods. Each national neighborhood would select a few families to live in the experimental neighborhoods. They should select people who are not "set in their ways" but who are instead highly enthused about being part of an effort to develop a new culture.

When you give people the opportunity to participate, that makes them smile, and that makes everything a lot easier (including the herding of cats).

You wrote, "I assume then that your proposal is for a temporary government that will be discarded when the population grows too large for it." Yes, I regard the Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars as temporary. I think of it as scaffolding that supports a building while it is under construction.

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-24 17:18:09

I pointed out in my essay titled The Problem of Owning Mars that, under to Moon Treaty, it is possible to establish "legal norms" for Mars. I have proposed a set of legal norms titled Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars. Under those norms, people can establish municipal governments and then adopt ordinances that provide for the private ownership of land, homes, and businesses. I believe that the members of the U.N. General Assembly will view this as a completely reasonable procedure for colonizing Mars.

Which begs the question, who is going to expend the considerable resources to get people there in the first place? Unless a nation or corporation can get recognition for their pocket "municipal government" in advance, colonization won't happen under these treaties. They should be discarded, not built upon.

Besides, if we accept these treaties, then no nation can lay claim to Martian territory, putting it outside the jurisdiction of the United Nations.

The first paragraph of the Outer Space Treaty reads, "The exploration and use of outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be carried out for the benefit and in the interests of all countries, irrespective of their degree of economic or scientific development, and shall be the province of all mankind."

You don't see a problem with this? If the United States or China are going to spend billions to set up Martian colonies why would they give a rat's posterior about whether it benefits some dirt-farmer in Zaire, or Congo or whatever the hell they're calling it this week? Doesn't this strike you as a hindrance? besides, if the US sets up a colony under direct US sovereignty, others will follow, technology will advance, society will progress and all of humanity will benefit. Not all at once and perhaps not equally, but these treaties ensure that no one benefits.

I have attempted to formulate a Mars colonization strategy that is as broadly inclusive as possible. Even a poor country could summon enough resources to build a national neighborhood in The City of Euthenia. I believe that this is one of the strongest points in favor of my proposal.

Fine, let Uzbekistan and East Timor and whomever have a neighborhood. What does it have to do with the actual settlement of Mars? The list of nations that have a chance at settling Mars is short. Why engage in exercises that deny that fact?

...Each national neighborhood would select a few families to live in the experimental neighborhoods. They should select people who are not "set in their ways" but who are instead highly enthused about being part of an effort to develop a new culture.

Attempting to "develop" a culture is pointless and possibly harmful. Cultures happen in response to a multitude of factors, they aren't consciuosly created to fulfill a specific purpose. The few times this has been tried do not offer encouragement for future success. For example, North Korea is a superb example of a "developed" culture based on all sorts of wonderful-sounding principles of equality and progress. I'll pass... the ammunition if that's what it takes.

When you give people the opportunity to participate, that makes them smile, and that makes everything a lot easier (including the herding of cats).

Silly humans. So easily controlled.

You wrote, "I assume then that your proposal is for a temporary government that will be discarded when the population grows too large for it." Yes, I regard the Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars as temporary. I think of it as scaffolding that supports a building while it is under construction.

Then my question is this: if you accept that the proposal will become unworkable, why start it in the first place? Why not begin with a provisional system that will lay the groundwork for, and naturally transition into, a permanent system?

Scott G. Beach · 2004-01-24 22:15:50

Cobra:

The first paragraph of Article 19 of the Outer Space Treaty reads, "This Agreement shall be open for signature by all States at United Nations Headquarters in New York." The Moon Treaty has a similar provision. Both of these treaties are sponsored by the U.N. You can complain about these treaties all you want to but they are not going to go away. I have done my best to cope with this existing legal environment.

You asked, "Doesn't this strike you as a hindrance? Besides, if the US sets up a colony under direct US sovereignty, others will follow, technology will advance, society will progress and all of humanity will benefit. Not all at once and perhaps not equally, but these treaties ensure that no one benefits."

No, I do not see these treaties as a hindrance. The Moon Treaty leaves the door open for the kind of "legal norms" that I have proposed. The Outer Space Treaty and the Moon Treaty are not getting in my way. And since you are not prepared to lead a campaign to repeal these treaties you should simply try to find a way to make the best of them, as I have.

You wrote, "Fine, let Uzbekistan and East Timor and whomever have a neighborhood. What does it have to do with the actual settlement of Mars?" Many of the residents of The City of Euthenia would work in a near-by rocket factory, building the colony ships that would take Euthenians to Mars.

You wrote, "Cultures happen in response to a multitude of factors, they aren't consciously created to fulfill a specific purpose." The Jews who built kibbutzim believed that they were building communities would one day join together to become a nation. Their nation-building efforts succeeded. And the Cornell Peru Project is an example of cultural engineering that worked very well. See "The Process of Accelerating Community Change," by Allan R. Holmberg and Henry F. Dobyns, in Human Organization, the journal of the Society for Applied Anthropology.

And see "revitalization movement." Anthropologists use this term to describe the efforts of a group of people to build a more satisfying way of life. Such movements usually have a spiritual foundation, but not always.

In summary, "cultural engineering" is more common and more successful than you have imagined. And I have no doubt that the Euthenians would succeed in their efforts to create a sociocultural system that is adapted to the Martian ecosystem.

You asked, "Why not begin with a provisional system that will lay the groundwork for, and naturally transition into, a permanent system?" Bingo! That is exactly what I have tried to do. Section 4 of the Constitution of the Provisional Government of Mars reads, "A statute is a law adopted pursuant to this Constitution. Before the establishment of two permanent human settlements on Mars, statutes may be adopted, amended, or repealed during any annual meeting of the Mars Society. After the establishment of two permanent human settlements on Mars, statutes may be adopted, amended, or repealed in accordance with statutes adopted by a Parliament composed of equal numbers of representatives from each settlement." I hope that there will be an early and smooth transition to "home rule" on Mars.

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-25 09:42:50

The first paragraph of Article 19 of the Outer Space Treaty reads, "This Agreement shall be open for signature by all States at United Nations Headquarters in New York." The Moon Treaty has a similar provision. Both of these treaties are sponsored by the U.N.

Yes, but if you take their content at face value they put celestial bodies outside UN authority. Otherwise the implication is that the UN owns them and can decide at its whim who can use them and how. It's a subtle point, but these treaties can be their own undoing.

You asked, "Doesn't this strike you as a hindrance? Besides, if the US sets up a colony under direct US sovereignty, others will follow, technology will advance, society will progress and all of humanity will benefit. Not all at once and perhaps not equally, but these treaties ensure that no one benefits."
No, I do not see these treaties as a hindrance. The Moon Treaty leaves the door open for the kind of "legal norms" that I have proposed. The Outer Space Treaty and the Moon Treaty are not getting in my way. And since you are not prepared to lead a campaign to repeal these treaties you should simply try to find a way to make the best of them, as I have.

I may yet make an effort to repeal these treaties one day, if the voters agree But such a step isn't really necessary. If a nation were to lay claim to Mars' western hemisphere and begin developing it, what do you think would actually happen? A UN resolution perhaps? While the US may be too timid to do so I have little doubt the Chinese or Russians would be particularly deterred.

I'm not willing to base my entire vision of the future on an unenforceable treaty written by people with no interest in the development of the territory in question.

You wrote, "Fine, let Uzbekistan and East Timor and whomever have a neighborhood. What does it have to do with the actual settlement of Mars?" Many of the residents of The City of Euthenia would work in a near-by rocket factory, building the colony ships that would take Euthenians to Mars.

Of course, a rocket factory. So I suppose the government of Uzbekistan would be contributing the same financial resources as the United States? If so, where are they getting it and if not, the whole thing is welfare. Why would large industrialized nations want to help tiny third world dictatorships get to Mars so that they could get in the way of their development plans? Unless you plan to threaten them.

You wrote, "Cultures happen in response to a multitude of factors, they aren't consciously created to fulfill a specific purpose." The Jews who built kibbutzim believed that they were building communities would one day join together to become a nation. Their nation-building efforts succeeded. And the Cornell Peru Project is an example of cultural engineering that worked very well. See "The Process of Accelerating Community Change," by Allan R. Holmberg and Henry F. Dobyns, in Human Organization, the journal of the Society for Applied Anthropology.
And see "revitalization movement." Anthropologists use this term to describe the efforts of a group of people to build a more satisfying way of life. Such movements usually have a spiritual foundation, but not always.

While I am not familiar with the details of all your examples, one thing stands out upon a quick looking over. They developed in response to the culture(s) surrounding them. They were not trying to create a new society in a vacuum. They formed in response to elements of established cultures rather than attempting to create something entirely new. Yes, in some cases they may have thought they were really paving the way to a new cultural foundation, but it simply isn't the case.

You asked, "Why not begin with a provisional system that will lay the groundwork for, and naturally transition into, a permanent system?" Bingo! That is exactly what I have tried to do.

But your proposal creates a system that cannot be expanded or maintained which will have to be wholly discarded and replaced with something completely new. It is not only inefficient, but a good way to plant seeds for those Martian wars you think can never happen.

Mundaka · 2004-01-25 15:14:19

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