Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

Hazer · 2004-01-23 00:07:35

The following is a description of how a mission to Mars could unfold.
NASA, going on the new directive given in 2004 and eager to recover from the failure of one of it's Mar's Exploration Rovers partnered with the ESA and the Russians to send a mission to Mars with the intent of establishing solid infrastructure for future missions to Mars.

To this extent, they use a fleet of cargo probes propelled by ion drives to fly a massive amount of supplies into High Mars Orbit. These probes are also equipped with ground penetrating radar and will function as a Martian version of the GPS-as well as a handy way.

A twelve-man international crew is flown to Mars in a spacecraft that is assembled in Earth orbit. This spacecraft is capable of providing the astronauts inside with 1.1 G-preventing bone loss.

The mother ship is equipped with no less then three "small" craft capable of hauling supplies to and from the surface. It will also be equipped with a nuclear reactor, an ion drive, and a moderatly powerful laser. You can also add the mandatory solar panels (The laser is for taking a look at the insides of Phobos and Deimos, as well as for dealing with space-trash)
The mothership should have enough transmitting power to contact Earth and supply scientists with a torrent of data.

Upon arriving at Mars, this crew spends the first month or so actively surveying possible landing sites and unpacking the cargo probes that arrived a month before.

When a suitable spot is found, the astronauts immediatly are to review it one last time, and then begin construction of a walled settlement-part of which is underground (To protect against rocks flung by dust devils and against other weathering.) The goal of this mission will be to improve and innovate on technologies that better enable man to survive on Mars.

Also, perchance there are hostile life forms, the crew will be issued weapons-when they reach Mars (Spirit's silence has made me suspicious).

The goal of this mission will be to improve and innovate on technologies that better enable man to survive on Mars. This mission will deal primarily with issues of manufacturing processes and living off the land.

The first two missions will focus on building and maintaining infrastructure-subsequent missions will occur as opportunities arise.

On one of the missions, a female astronaut might become pregnant, since Mars is a lonely place and all. She might decide to have the child, despite the risks-making it the first human "Martian." Such a situation will be planned for.

Anyone else have ideas?

Pendragon · 2004-01-23 09:54:02

Upon arriving at Mars, this crew spends the first month or so actively surveying possible landing sites and unpacking the cargo probes that arrived a month before.

Since a likely spot for a colony could be chosen before hand, instead of just shipping supplies, early probes could start getting materials ready for use when the colonists get there. An example might be harvesting water for use or laying the foundation for any permanent structures.

An addition to your plan might be for the original ship(s) to be converted into a space station (maybe built on one of the moons, especially if they have ice in the interiors). This could serve several purposes. 1) Communications relay to the ground (for use at certain times) 2) Weather observation of dust storms 3) Possible way station for future transit ships (assuming a means of getting down to and back up from the planet is provided). This would remove the need of having to launch that much mass repeatedly when transferering materials and supplies.

Hazer · 2004-01-23 12:27:48

Putting a station on Phobos and or Deimos is a capital idea.
Mind you, the first few flights will be round-trips. We need to leave a settlements. For resupplying, we could literally drop supplies over a certain area.

A.J.Armitage · 2004-01-23 21:00:01

Your scenario looks like a fairly typical Mars-settlement scenario, which, frankly, you can read at all kinds of places.

What gets interesting is when you consider the effect space elevators would have on all this.

Hazer · 2004-01-24 02:46:37

A single space elevator on Earth would speed up the process of assembling a mission by about 300 percent.

Earthfirst · 2004-02-20 22:40:17

What the, you call that a plan? I have seen 8th graders come up with better plans.
The mission should be all white american males, with blow up women for company. I mean why does everthing have to include a banch of other countrys, srew them they are not paying for the mission, the only flag planted on mars should be the american flag!
Bunch of no good internationalist scum, go back to cannada A
and take your bad beer with you.
Blame cannada, blame cannada! :laugh:

Yang Liwei Rocket · 2004-03-09 16:59:18

Bunch of no good internationalist scum, go back to cannada A
and take your bad beer with you.
Blame cannada, blame cannada!

who is going to climb olympus?

mounties will go there first

jcastro · 2004-03-09 22:10:28

Frankly, I see a mission to Mars as a joint effort between humans from various countries, not just the presently superior nation of the United States. Humans should work together on at least something, and stop being greedy and wanting the "bragging rights".

Now why are we considering space elevators when they are not logical. Gravitational pull, the mere process of constructing and assembling the structure, mining for the materials needing to make it, and making it secure enough so that it doesn't topple or collapse upon itself. And if you are wanting to build a space elevator capable of "speeding up assembly process by 300%" then you would need a space elevator around 1600 square feet. Consider the amount of time the elevator has to use in accelerating and decelerating and the amount of space available. If you apply some simple Mathematics, you can multiply 1600 square feet by about 1,600,000 ft. or so just to get a very rugged estimate on how much materials you will need. So, do you know where we can get 2,560,000,000 cubic feet of materials? Let's dig a 300 mile-long trench about 40 feet wide and forty feet deep and use nanotechnology to convert the atoms into useable materials. Oh and let me be a little more technical. Let's consider the hollow space inside... Let's say we only need 100 square feet of materials "section". You still need that 300-mile long trench about 10 feet wide and 10 feet deep.

So now if you know how space elevators are actually kind of irrelevant, I would think space planes would do the job fine for now. Oh, but if I misunderstood you, what type of space elevator are we talking about? A space elevator with its own propulsion system that propels about 600 miles per hour even with a, say, 10 ton payload climbing vertically? Well I don't know what technology that is, but it would be interesting to have.

So I am not trying to offend you here, but it is in my opinion that space elevators are quite irrelevant and were originally proposed by someone who thought they had a good idea...

If you want to use as much materials and money to make a space elevator, then why not just build four hundred space planes that continuously cycle up into space to deliver their payloads. But how inconvenient and tedious that would be! These things just take time and eventually you are going to hit an abrupt wall on construction rates with present technology.

As for Mars' colonies, I think we need them just incase Earth is going to be struck by an asteroid... *ALARM* WELL, I MUST WITHDRAW THAT BECAUSE MARS IS SO CLOSE TO THE ASTEROID BELT THAT THE MARS' COLONIES WOULD PROBABLY BE OBLITERATED BEFORE EARTH DOES... Oh, unless you know, you evade impact in your little bubble colonies. Hehe. You better hope you have some high-powered artificial lighting, because with Mars' dust storms and ESPECIALLY all that dust an asteroid strike will kick up, your plants are gonna be wilting pretty soon. The most logical settlements would be some moonbases. I'd just want to tint my bubble cities with about three or four layers because man oh man is that sun bright! But there are complexities with any off-world settlements.

By the way, I am a new member here and look forward to getting to know you all better!

, jcastro

el scorcho · 2004-12-12 15:07:26

Whichever nation or space agency has the means to go should go. As an American, I would much rather see an ESA or Russian or Japanese...heck, even a Chinese mission to Mars tomorrow than a NASA mission "eventually," as they love to say. It's much more in the interest of humanity for one group with the means to go to Mars to take the initiative and go than it is to sacrifice the progress of the whole on the altar of internationalism. Stagnation is stagnation; even if it's for a noble ideal like working together.

That having been said, I have no problem with a series of joint, but not co-dependent, missions to Mars, the Moon, or wherever else for which the participants are all technologically prepared and upon which they all agree as to their respective role in the mission. As for a plan of colonization, I would like to see ten or twenty years of successive Mars Direct-style missions with propulsion upgrades, such as nuclear rockets or the microwave-propulsion satellites that cut the one-way mission time to 39 (!) days. In that time, each space agency will likely have a fairly sizeable scientific outpost or two or...five . After that, private enterprise will take care of actual colonization efforts.

Trebuchet · 2004-12-12 16:02:51

We should figure out how to put people in a hibernation-like state for a few months and ship 'em like so much cordwood.

I figure the hibernation research will get a boost because one of the enzymes involved appears to cause the body to preferentially burn body fat. That has applications for the holy grail of consumer pharmeceuticals, the Lazy Bastard Diet Pill, so at least part of the process will likely attract funding no matter whether NASA cares about it or not.

If you can simply stick people in casket-like pods and let them take a nap for a few months, colonizing Mars suddenly becomes much simpler. People would use a lot less space, food, water, and air while having a few months of snoozetime....

Rxke · 2004-12-13 05:05:38

ESA's starting to do research on hibernation.
It has many applications, also in medicine: imagine patients undergoing otherwize painful treatment, like burns-skin transplants etc... Keep them 'under' for some weeks and wake them afterwards...

Martian Republic · 2005-01-15 23:20:52

It would also make a difference how fast we intend to colonize Mars and how big that we intended to colonize Mars. Like if we tried to colonize Mars right now, it would have to be small and/or maybe not doable past just a small base. How ever if we were to spend the next twenty to thirty years developing the technologies and building up the infrastructure to build that colony, then that changes the whole equation. It would take two generation to be able to put together much of a Mars Colony too. So any serious effort to colonize Mars would have to be planed in a two or three generation time frame or it just won't happen.

Larry,

JammerG55 · 2005-01-20 15:24:49

Has any one read red genesis? there are some good ideas in the book.

srmeaney · 2005-03-19 04:19:15

Galactic Commonwealth allocates ten million billion per year (for a thousand years) to the Mars Society to send fifty colonists every year to establish a rover dependent civilization with a network of automated refueling stations and a zeppelin for emergency rover retrievals and a single city where all the food is grown and the ceramic tools and building materials manufactured powered by coal fired power stations for terraforming purposes.
Following the responsibilities that come with citizenship in the Commonwealth.

Now all we need is recognition of the Galactic Commonwealth.

Cobra Commander · 2005-03-22 15:00:55

Now all we need is recognition of the Galactic Commonwealth.

And of course the little matter of ten million billion dollars.

srmeaney · 2005-03-22 17:28:14

You dont actually have to have money to spend it. So Mars is worth fifty million billion per annum for two thousand years and the Earth is a worthless, overcrowded mudball. Borrow money that doesnt exist except in mineral resources and spend it. The economy of earth experiences growth and imense profit for a thousand years. The debt of Mars rides up.
With fifty colonists a year for Mars and a hundred a year bound for space stations under construction in orbit which will eventually make their way out to the Asteroid belt for mining and 'planet building' you need to encourage the profit of innovation.
Wealth that isn't being used to create growth is slowing economic growth.

srmeaney · 2005-03-22 17:45:46

If the orbital elevator is there to ship minerals off world, why bother. It is easier for the minerals to be used localy. The colony would best be a ceramic oriented civilization as smelters would prove troublesome. Powdered alloys pressed into whatever shape is desired with the help of hydraulic presses. All the tools critical to a civilization could be produced locally rather than shipped in. That would allow funds to be directed towards importing the components that cannot be built on Mars. People mostly.

SpaceNut · 2005-03-23 10:24:31

One of those tools to make any exploration possible will be the space suit. Though they would be different for moon versus Mars in structural density of material used to make them. They still must hold the environment out while keeping its contents in.

The North Dakota Space Grant Consortium based at the University of North Dakota gets grant to develop prototype Mars space suit

UND said the Mars suit project ranked in the top three of the 50 grant proposals submitted to NASA.

srmeaney · 2005-03-23 22:58:01

Can you build a space suit using only powdered alloys and water to produce ceramic components using a hydraulic press?

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#1 2004-01-23 00:07:35

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#2 2004-01-23 09:54:02

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#3 2004-01-23 12:27:48

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#4 2004-01-23 21:00:01

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#5 2004-01-24 02:46:37

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#6 2004-02-20 22:40:17

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#7 2004-03-09 16:59:18

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#8 2004-03-09 22:10:28

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#9 2004-12-12 15:07:26

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#10 2004-12-12 16:02:51

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#11 2004-12-13 05:05:38

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#12 2005-01-15 23:20:52

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#13 2005-01-20 15:24:49

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#14 2005-03-19 04:19:15

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#15 2005-03-22 15:00:55

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#16 2005-03-22 17:28:14

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#17 2005-03-22 17:45:46

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#18 2005-03-23 10:24:31

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

#19 2005-03-23 22:58:01

Re: Let's lay out a hypothetical colonization plan - Nuts and bolts

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