Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

Rxke · 2004-01-19 17:28:12

Didn't know Nasa/JPL 'copyrighted' the rovers...
[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3410453.stm]BBC has a nice article about the boom in toys etc. giving the developers some money back from licences.

This is, eventually, the way to go: make money where you can, everybody happy (xcept the toymakers maybe,...)

Nirgal82 · 2004-01-19 18:20:31

sounds interesting, i wondered what accounted for the clumpyness of the sand. I found it hard to see individual grains however i could tell that the clumps were made of smaller particles. I knew that for this to be possible there would have to be some sort of adhesive in there, possibly moisture related, evaporating salt water seems to fit the bill.
There are similar tubular structures seen in death valley caused by saltwater evaporation...
-Matt

Shaun Barrett · 2004-01-19 20:37:42

I have a question but, before I ask it, I'd just like to say it's good to see Nirgal 82 back on the boards ... welcome back, Matt!
I notice that BGD is climbing into the ring a little more often lately, too. Excellent!
By the way, Josh and Rxke, I've been meaning to thank both of you for your marathon efforts to keep the rest of us 'in the picture' with Spirit news. You, and others here, have done us proud and it's much appreciated.

I was interested in the comments about the tiny tubes and spheres of granular material found in the martian soil. In particular, the point someone made about such structures being able to ".. withstand the region's strong winds and perpetual scouring by dust devils ...".
It occurred to me to ask how long such structures last in Death Valley, where they're also found? Is there any indication of how durable such natural sculptures really are?

If Gusev is constantly scoured by winds and wind-blown dust, could we expect fine crusty tubules and spherules to last, say, a year or 10 years, or a century or 1000 years?!!
If such creations of brine evaporation are indeed fragile and short-lived in the conditions found at Gusev, could we be looking at an ongoing process of creation?
Could these structures be relatively fresh, having been produced by recent episodes of wetting and drying of the soil? If so, perhaps it fits in with the creation of the so-called 'magic carpet' of material, which looks suspiciously like freeze-dried mud.

Who knows, maybe much of the surface material of Mars is full of water/water-ice, undergoing repeated freezing, thawing and/or evaporation even today.
Just a thought.

Palomar · 2004-01-19 20:59:23

[=http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap040118.html]A close-up of Marsian soil

*Large pic...same as the one in the article BGD referred us to, it seems...except fully lit.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-19 22:19:43

It looks... alien!

Rxke · 2004-01-20 01:20:12

Shaun, if these tubes are real, IMO they must be quite recent.

The temp diff every day would, amongst other influences, be enough to destroy them after a very short while. (expansion/contraction cycle)

So *if* they are really there, it's an on-going process.

BTW about the marathon effort comment: heh, doesn't feel like a marathon at all, it's just passionate (or boyish? i am 34) enthousiasm
Mars has always been 'my' place of choice, so...

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-20 03:03:07

Just wanted to let you guys know that tomorrows (todays/Tuesdays) press briefing will occur at 9:30 AM PST. Or 17:30 GMT if I did my math right. Just wanted to let you guys know just in case I wasn't here... not that it matters and all, we probably won't see much anything exciting...

Rxke · 2004-01-20 05:02:10

In my case, this high posting ratio is nothing to be proud of, i should be doing other things! (like right now, studying my 'scientific research methods' syllabus, got an exam coming this friday)

Rxke · 2004-01-20 06:49:09

See you are online, too, BGD...
Friday:' sorry for my bad answers, but Sirit is doing some amazing stuff on Mars, and I just HAVE to follow it...'

Hmmm... Would that work? I Doubt it. I hope i get a question about spectronomy, i'll sure try and get Spirit-Mars into it...

Rxke · 2004-01-20 10:18:50

Adirondack before meeting the fearsome RAT...

Rxke · 2004-01-20 10:26:53

... And after.

(Sorry, couldn't help myself)

Adrian · 2004-01-20 11:03:41

Heh, that's some serious destructive investigation

Does anyone know how NASA will handle the running of the two rovers when they're both on the surface? Do they have two semi-independent teams, or what? Someone mentioned that Spirit will quieten down while Opportunity lands; I hope that this doesn't mean NASA will have to make compromises between running the two rovers.

Rxke · 2004-01-20 11:11:19

I thought they were virtually on opposite sides of Mars, so one is 'awake' while the other one 'sleeps' and vice versa.

so... errr...

I guess from now on the operators will stop sleeping at all, and switch from Spirit to Opportunity to Spirit-to opportunity...

(lame, i guess they have some double shifts... or something...)

Stu · 2004-01-20 11:12:02

Just wanted to let you guys know that tomorrows (todays/Tuesdays) press briefing will occur at 9:30 AM PST. Or 17:30 GMT if I did my math right. Just wanted to let you guys know just in case I wasn't here... not that it matters and all, we probably won't see much anything exciting...

Thanks for letting us know Josh. I do wonder how the tone of the briefings will change once the "gee whizz" stuff is out of the way and serious field geology takes over...

Was away over the weekend, good to see Spirit didn't drive into a crater or get eaten by a sandworm while I was unable to get online...

Palomar · 2004-01-20 11:27:28

Does anyone know how NASA will handle the running of the two rovers when they're both on the surface? Do they have two semi-independent teams, or what? Someone mentioned that Spirit will quieten down while Opportunity lands; I hope that this doesn't mean NASA will have to make compromises between running the two rovers.

*That's a mighty good question, Adrian. Hopefully someone will supply the answer (I don't know). Yeah, compromise in that regard would be a bummer.

Rik, I enjoyed the pics you posted. A friend here at New Mars sent me one of **TA-DA!** the Golden Arches off in the distance, superimposed on the first image Spirit sent back...

I am really looking forward to what transpires regarding Opportunity...

--Cindy

Rxke · 2004-01-20 11:41:08

I'm watching the conference, and taking notes, will post them later

Rxke · 2004-01-20 12:01:58

Who predicted this conference was going to be dull?

Yeee-Haaa!

I missed the first part, sigh... But here's the overview.

Science:
Note: all measurements are done on that 'microscopic' patch of clean soil...
The German Scientists explained the :

-Mossbauer Spectral maps that got through today, and found some tantalising stuff...

(i missed the beginning, so i only got a fleeting glimpse of the spectral emission map...)

-Olivine! (see later)

Then : abundant Fe2+, and more Fe3+

(note: this is spectroscopy, so these are chemical compounds measured, so the Fe's are in a compound with different stuff...)

-APXS (X-ray)

elements found:
Si (silicon, most abundant)
Fe (Iron)
Cl (Chlorine)
S (Sulpher)
Ca (Calcium)
Quite a lot of Argon (!)

and a first, thanks to the new capabilities of this hi-res detector:
amounts of
Ni (Nickel)
Zn (Zinc)

(batteries, anyone?)

Whew!
(wait, there's a lot more)

Rxke · 2004-01-20 12:13:20

Of course, new discoveries lead to new questions, such s:

The soil: we do not know if the top layer of the measured soil is from Gusev at all! It is very similar to Pathfinder and Viking measurements.. An explanation could be the global duststorms, that homogenises the top layer of Mars, by distributing dust.
So, they are goin to dig some holes (with the wheels, let one spin, while the others brake) and of course visit some 'natural' holes (that's craters )

Another surprize or puzzle;

We've all seen the microscopic patch of 'clean' soil...
the grains are tens of mm (10 mm= 0,3937 inch) in size...
So they are 'clumped' together
The question, of course is what aggregates them together?
The leading theory was electrostatic force (Boo! Hiss!)
Well, that's easy to check, the clumps should collapse under pressure, and that is just what the Mossbauer did: it presses on the soil while doing its measuring.
So after the Moss, the took another microscopic picture and...
IT WAS JUST AS BEFORE! So electrostatic is out (Yeee!)
What, then could be the cause?
(to b continued... In a minute, got an email coming in)

Rxke · 2004-01-20 12:22:44

ok, clumping...

Enter APXS: it came up with salts: (remember the chlorine, like in tablesalt: NaCl...)

The salts might be chlorides or sulfates (based on sulpher)
And they act s a chemical 'glue)

(My question: that means water, no? how else could salt migrate to the upper layers to cristallize there? ?)

So, the next thing theyre going to do is press harder, see what happens (not with the Moss, they're going to look at the tracks the wheels made)

Now, the olivine:
The presence of olivine is a real puzzle ( it's a compound made out of Si, Ca, and oxigen)
It could be finely ground up... lava! transported by the duststorms.
OR we might actually be looking THROUGH the upper layer of that clear spot, and there happens to be a big chunk of solid rock just millimeters underneath it, and the sensitive instruments pick up that rock's signature...
So, again: digging is the answer.

All this exciting stuff (hey, for me it is) and we're only through the *first* measurement of a piece of soil!

Next: Adirondack...

Rxke · 2004-01-20 12:32:30

Adirondack...

As the conference was midway, they told us that, as they were speaking, measurements on the rock were in full porgress.
There was still some debate going on wether to use the RAT or not
(I guess they saw my picture and got scared... )

Jen told us: 'it is now SOL 17, 5 in the afternoon on Mars ' (Thats Spirit time)
They have been checking out the arm, to look what the RAT sensors told them, microscopic pics have been taken, and now APXS is in place.
In a couple of hours Moss will be in place to do it's magic throughout the night.

To wrap things up:
Spirit is in "extremely good condition." They got a data throughput of 99Mb on the last comm session (!)
Thermal situation: a bit cooler now, since off the lander, wich gives them some more time to do science (? I guess it was getting too hot with all the gizmo's on...)
Powersituation is ok, with the batteries fully charged.
In fact, the only constraint on the mission right now is the limit in data throughput 'wich is excellent'

Then media questions, but i didn't bother...

remcook · 2004-01-20 12:40:12

thanks for the report!

will they have twice as many press conferences when opportunity arrives? That would be nice

Palomar · 2004-01-20 13:07:37

The soil: we do not know if the top layer of the measured soil is from Gusev at all! It is very similar to Pathfinder and Viking measurements.. An explanation could be the global duststorms, that homogenises the top layer of Mars, by distributing dust.

*Makes sense...reminds me of "top soil" issues in the agricultural Midwest, displacement, etc. Based on that, I really doubt that soil is "from" Gusev at all...it just seems "a given" it's not (of course, I could be wrong).

--Cindy

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#76 2004-01-19 17:28:12

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

#80 2004-01-19 22:19:43

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

#84 2004-01-20 06:49:09

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

#88 2004-01-20 11:11:19

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

#90 2004-01-20 11:27:28

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

#91 2004-01-20 11:41:08

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

#92 2004-01-20 12:01:58

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

#93 2004-01-20 12:13:20

Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity 2 - Continued from original thread

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