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GOM

Member

Registered: 2001-09-08

Posts: 127

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

06/25/02 - Tue/Wed
Host: George Noory
Guest: Richard Hoagland

1) Richard C. Hoagland, is the founder of The Enterprise Mission, recipient of the Angstrom Medal, former science advisor to CBS News and Walter Cronkite, author of "The Monuments of Mars", co-creator of the "Pioneer Plaque", originator of the "Europa Proposal", and principal investigator of The Enterprise Mission...

Book: The Monuments of Mars: A City on the Edge of Forever
Website: www.enterprisemission.com

Guest: Dr. Robert Zubrin
Dr. Robert Zubrin, Pioneer Astronautics, Astronautical Engineer, USA, Commander. Mars Society President Dr. Robert Zubrin has been selected as the winner of the Robert A. Heinlein Memorial Award for "lifetime achievement in promoting the goal of a free spacefaring civilization." The previous 8 winners of the award were Dr. Gerard K. O'Neill, Sir Arthur Clarke, Dr. Werner Von Braun, Gene Roddenberry, Dr. Robert Goddard, Dr. Buzz Aldrin, Dr. Carl Sagan, and Neil Armstrong. Zubrin is the 9th person to win the award.

Book: The Case for Mars: The Plan to Settle the Red Planet
Book: Entering Space: Creating a Space-Faring Civilization
Book: Islands in the Sky: Bold New Ideas for Colonizing Space
Website: www.marssociety.org

http://artbell.com/schedule.html

Adrian

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From: London, United Kingdom

Registered: 2001-09-04

Posts: 642

Website

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

This should be a very interesting show - Zubrin and Hoagland together! I hope someone can find a transcript or synopsis of this.

I was looking around on the net for stuff about Hoagland the other day, not really knowing much about him, and I came across this article in Csicop about him:

In July 1990 on the "For the People" radio program Hoagland proclaimed that "Carl [Sagan] for many years has been taking public credit for the Pioneer plaque which, of course Eric Burgess and I conceived." In November of that year he claimed that "Carl was involved with Eric Burgess and me in the design of [the] message." But according to Posner in 1990 correspondence between him and Carl Sagan, Sagan stated that "Eric Burgess and Richard Hoagland did no more than suggest to me that a message be put aboard Pioneer 10 and 11. Frank Drake and I did the design, and I was responsible for getting it through the White House and NASA approval process."

As for the hypothesis that there are oceans beneath the surface of Europa, none other than Arthur C. Clarke states in his 2010: Odyssey Two that the idea "was first proposed by Richard C. Hoagland in the magazine Star & Sky ("The Europa Enigma," January, 1980)." However, Clarke himself seems to have been mistaken. John S. Lewis first proposed the idea in 1971 and several other scientists published articles in agreement during the 1970s. Posner found that Ralph Greenberg, a professor of mathematics at the University of Washington in Seattle has been trying for years to convince Hoagland to set the record straight-without success.

Do not mistake this as an ad hominem attack - I was initially quite impressed with his credentials listed above, and wanted to find out more.

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Editor of [url=http://www.newmars.com]New Mars[/url]

GOM

Member

Registered: 2001-09-08

Posts: 127

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

Well....

Hoagland goes over the top sometimes.  He's a bit of an entertainer, imo.  It does not help his standing with the "mainstream".  He's kind of like the VW Bug was back in the 60's.  Some people love him.  Some people hate him.  Not too many are neutral.

He is the most visible person associated with the Face on Mars.  Has written at least one book on the topic.  His hypothesis is that we are the Martians.  He thinks the early Martians built the Face but had to leave their planet a long time ago and head for Earth due to a major disaster.

He was a mainstream person, worked with Cronkite in the past, but got shoved into the fringe due to his interest in the Face.  At least that is how I see it.  Now he is coming back into the mainstream and has been hired (I don't know the exact capacity or title) by a big studio to do a movie based on Mars and his theories.  I think it's supposed to be out in 2003, but I might be wrong on that point.

He is very enthusiastic about Mars.  I don't know what the format of the show will be, but with Hoagland on it will be interesting and probably also informative.

Phobos

Member

Registered: 2002-01-02

Posts: 1,103

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

Should be interesting but I hope Zubrin doesn't end up damaging his credibility.  He should be careful how he goes about disseminating information to the public.

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To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

Mark S

Banned

Registered: 2002-04-11

Posts: 343

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

I have to say that I find Hoaglund very fascinating, even if I find his methods less than scientific.  I've never hard his theory about humans being Martians, but his prediction that the face was half-lion was shockingly correct.  One of his major theories is that Mars was a moon of a planet that once inhabited the asteroid belt.  This planet collided with another one, releasing Mars into a new orbit, creating the asteroid belt, and causing the cataclysm that killed the dinosaurs.

Perhaps Hoaglund remains so popular because everyone loves a storyteller.

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"I'm not much of a 'hands-on' evil scientist."--Dr. Evil, "Goldmember"

Phobos

Member

Registered: 2002-01-02

Posts: 1,103

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

I've never been very receptive to the idea that Earthlife was carried to this planet on an extraterrestrial object.  I don't discount the possibility of some rock with Martian bacteria in it being ejected into space and falling to Earth to seed life, but it just seems more reasonable to assume that Earth life started from the get-go on Earth.

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To achieve the impossible you must attempt the absurd

JGM

Member

Registered: 2001-09-04

Posts: 26

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

I've never been very receptive to the idea that Earthlife was carried to this planet on an extraterrestrial object.  I don't discount the possibility of some rock with Martian bacteria in it being ejected into space and falling to Earth to seed life, but it just seems more reasonable to assume that Earth life started from the get-go on Earth.

There's a couple of ways of looking at this. Zubrin thinks, as I recall him mentioning at last year's conference, that the material exchange between the two planets is so common on a geological time scale that any life that was once on Mars is now on Earth- and likewise Earth life would certainly have fairly frequently had a chance to make the trip to Mars. Since this would likely have happened while Mars was warm and wet we should be surprised not to find evidence of Earth life having once existed on Mars. As Chris McKay suggests, though, Mars had certain advantages over Earth as a place for life to get started- including the lack of a moon-forming impact and the faster potential pace of oxygenation. Zubrin thinks it doesn't really matter which had life first because he's pretty confident it came from the stars.

If it's the warmth from the sun and the presence of large oceans with large tidal fluctuations that give life a boost I'd have to say Earth had the edge- so the Moon works both for and against it happening here first.

There's plenty of guessing involved by all accounts so it's a great incentive to get people over to Mars and get some definitive answers

Aetius

Member

From: New England USA

Registered: 2002-01-20

Posts: 173

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

Hoagland is a crank, in my opinion. However, the Cydonia "Face" nonsense keeps Mars in the public consciousness. This shadow-trick seizes the collective imagination in a way that ALH84001 never did.

How many moviegoers didn't enjoy watching "Total Recall"? If just one kid is inspired by Hoagland's paranoid fantasies to devote her life to studying Mars, he will have done humanity a service.

If there is such a thing as an afterlife for Mars activists, Percival Lowell must be there, waiting for him amongst the vast red expanse.

"Sorry, Dick. Don't feel bad. I thought I saw canals made by a dying civilization..."

Mark S

Banned

Registered: 2002-04-11

Posts: 343

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

I listened to the last two hours of the show this morning and I thought it was very good.  Hoaglund turned down his Cydonia rhetoric and Zubrin led most of the discussion.

The most interesting point came when Hoaglund asked Zubrin how the discovery of water would change the propellant production scheme for Mars Direct.  Zubrin replied by saying that Mars Direct 1 would be built according to plan, but future Mars Direct missions could extract hydrogen from the water instead of bringing it from earth.  Zubrin also seemed enthusiastic about methanol fuel cells and nuclear power for Mars exploration.

The show got really interesting during the last ten minutes.  Zubrin blamed the failure of the Space Exploration Initiative on Richard Truly, Hoaglund talked about a cryptic phone call about "a major announcement" from a NASA official, and he called for NASA to release the infrared photos of Cydonia that were taken in May.  Hoaglund also wants to present his "Mars Tidal Model" paper (see my last post) at the Mars Society convention this summer.

Quote for the day--Zubrin: If we do not go, we'll never know!

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"I'm not much of a 'hands-on' evil scientist."--Dr. Evil, "Goldmember"

GOM

Member

Registered: 2001-09-08

Posts: 127

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

I thought it was very good.

I agree.  One of the best I've ever heard.  Hoagland seems to have new clout and increased confidence now that he's got his movie deal.

nirgal

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Registered: 2002-05-14

Posts: 157

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

Does someone know where one can download the show or a transcript of it?
  ???

Mark S

Banned

Registered: 2002-04-11

Posts: 343

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

Does someone know where one can download the show or a transcript of it?
  ???

Coast to Coast AM with Art Bell

It should be on the website somewhere.

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"I'm not much of a 'hands-on' evil scientist."--Dr. Evil, "Goldmember"

GOM

Member

Registered: 2001-09-08

Posts: 127

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

Fascinating!

One of Hoagland's associates received a call from NASA wanting a conference call regarding Mars.  That call was supposed to have been made yesterday (Thursday).  Richard will report on the conference call tonight on Coast To Coast.

Considering the history between NASA and Hoagland, this is a stunning development!

Ooops.

I think Hoagland has a patent on the word "stunning"....

nirgal

Banned

Registered: 2002-05-14

Posts: 157

Re: Listen Tuesday night to Hoagland and Zubrin! - Coast To Coast radio show

It should be on the website somewhere.

I can't find it anywhere but I'm really interested in it. Does anyone have an idea where else I might find a transcript?