What does it take to be a good Martian? - Human traits best suited for Martians

realmacaw · 2004-01-12 04:30:48

If people are sent to Mars to stay long term, i.e. colonize it, what human traits are best?

I believe we need pirates, not Ph.D.s. We need survivors!!!

The traits that make a good "astronaunt" might not be the same traits that make a good "survivor." We don't need the brightest people to go there. We need survivors, highly resourceful pirate type people, perhaps people with no families. It would be best if they never had children since studies in fruit flies and other animals have shown that if animals can put off having offspring they age slower. We would need people with excellent genes who age slowly and their minds stay sharp, who are not prone to cancer, heart disease, diabetes or other serious problems. It would also be best to remove their appendics prior to them leaving. On a short mission, such as to the Moon, you can send the brightest Ph.D.'s who have none of these traits. But for a long term mission these traits would be important.

We also need a different "culture" than NASA has bred. We need people who question decisions, who think for themselves. I stood in Southern Utah in the cold and dark and watched the space shuttle fly over 3 minutes before it disintegrated. It was a shock to learn it disintegrated. It mostly happened because people didn't question decisions. The pilot never questioned the flight worthiness of the craft because NASA told him it was okay. The engineers who did question couldn't get their voices heard. NASA asked for a spy satelite to look at the shuttle but then turned it down so as to not bother the government and make a scene. It was all too polite, too orderly. It was like the English Red Coats marching into battle in formation and getting slaughtered by the nontraditional tactics of the American colonists. That is the character we need on Mars, survivors. People who tell NASA to "Go to Hell" when necessary. We need pirates, not Ph.D.'s. We'll never send anyone dumb. But we don't want geeks up there either. Their genes have got to be fantastic. They have got to be survivors.

To summarize, we need the following qualities:
1) Survivors
2) Pirate-like
3) Questions Authority (A "Go to Hell" attitude)
4) The best genes (no family cancer, heart disease, diabetes)
5) Perfect eyesight (no glasses or contacts)
6) Never smoked or been around second hand smokers
7) Preferable if never lived in a large polluted city
8) Preferable if never had a major sun burn
9) Must age slowly and live long with a sharp mind
10) No offspring
11) No family
12) No spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend
13) No unfulfilled dreams on Earth or major ties to anything
14) Smart
15) Extremely handy. A "MacGyver" Fix-It mentality.
16) Removed Appendics

Brian.

Euler · 2004-01-12 13:47:16

Why must the colonist have a removed appendix? Also don?t concentrate so much on removing minor risk factors for all diseases. No matter how hard you try, you will not be able to make all the colonist live to be 120, and it would not necessarily be good if you could.

RobS · 2004-01-12 15:44:46

I'd be careful about overemphasizing traits that lead to rugged individualism because survival is also dependent on cooperation. A Mars community needs to balance the individual and the collective, and balance them better than Earth has. Excessive individualism can lead to anarchism, just as excessive conformity leads to lack of creativity.

Also, I think the creation of families is essential, eventually, if we want Mars to have a community and society. Perhaps the first decade or two there would be no children, but Mars will have no future if it has no children. People feel more emotional roots to a place where they have raised children or where they themselves were raised. Furthermore, I would not consider parenting skills as irrelevant to survival as a community. Married people live longer than single people, statistically speaking. Having children means making a commitment to community and a long-term vision of things.

This factor alone may make Mars and moon radically different, because the moon's proximity to Earth makes the raising of families there unnecessary, and the gravity may make it unwise.

-- RobS

Palomar · 2004-01-12 19:02:11

I'd be careful about overemphasizing traits that lead to rugged individualism because survival is also dependent on cooperation. A Mars community needs to balance the individual and the collective, and balance them better than Earth has. Excessive individualism can lead to anarchism, just as excessive conformity leads to lack of creativity.
Also, I think the creation of families is essential, eventually, if we want Mars to have a community and society. Perhaps the first decade or two there would be no children, but Mars will have no future if it has no children. People feel more emotional roots to a place where they have raised children or where they themselves were raised. Furthermore, I would not consider parenting skills as irrelevant to survival as a community. Married people live longer than single people, statistically speaking. Having children means making a commitment to community and a long-term vision of things.

*I agree completely with Rob S, and couldn't have said it better myself.

No man (or woman) is an island.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-01-12 19:13:24

*Since it's been asked, here's my list (in no particular order):

1. Insightful.
2. Responsible (to self and others).
3. Knows when to ask for assistance.
4. Objective.
5. Willing to acknowledge limitations (in both self and others).
6. Resourceful.
7. "Treat others the way you'd like to be treated" and "honesty is the best policy" within code of personal ethics.
8. Practical.
9. Self-directed, although makes decisions for the benefit of his/her fellows as well.
10. Long-term planning ability with consideration of possible consequences.

--Cindy

~Eternal~ · 2004-01-12 21:26:45

I am :
1) Survivors - Check
2) Pirate-like - Arr Matey, Check
3) Questions Authority (A "Go to Hell" attitude) - Down with the Government up with Socialism
4) The best genes (no family cancer, heart disease, diabetes) - No Check
5) Perfect eyesight (no glasses or contacts) - Anything smaller than 5 px font is too small for me too read x__x.
6) Never smoked or been around second hand smokers - Nope.
7) Preferable if never lived in a large polluted city - I live in Arkansas for Christ sake.
8) Preferable if never had a major sun burn - I spend 10 hours in front of a computer, no time for sun.
9) Must age slowly and live long with a sharp mind - I'm 2 grades above everyone else my age.
10) No offspring - I am 13, my God help me if I do XD.
11) No family - I don't really see how this is a problem.
12) No spouse or girlfriend/boyfriend - What if my spouse or girlfriend goes with me as a fellow scientist?
13) No unfulfilled dreams on Earth or major ties to anything - Earth blows.
14) Smart - I shall refer you to #9
15) Extremely handy. A "MacGyver" Fix-It mentality. - I'm building an Ion Engine out of a TV, does that quallify as "MacGyverish"
16) Removed Appendics - I'm not sure if I was born with one o-o.
And:
1) Not afraid of small inclosed spaces.(Surprised no one has said this yet)

Rxke · 2004-01-12 23:18:16

You people all forgot one:

-like to live in a recycled atmosphere!

( hey, that's no small deal: imagine having to stay indoors (or in a suit) for the rest of your life...)

Bill White · 2004-01-13 10:44:54

Guys from Alaska? Like these guys?

[http://www.adn.com/doogan/story/4616731p-4580624c.html]http://www.adn.com/doogan/story/4616731p-4580624c.html

[http://www.adn.com/doogan/story/4616731p-4580624c.html]click-able link

clark · 2004-01-13 10:53:38

A good neighbor.

Palomar · 2004-01-13 11:07:11

Guys from Alaska? Like these guys?
[http://www.adn.com/doogan/story/4616731p-4580624c.html]http://www.adn.com/doogan/story/4616731p-4580624c.html
[http://www.adn.com/doogan/story/4616731p-4580624c.html]click-able link

*Bill, hilarious! Especially:

"I mean, ask yourself this: If your lunar rover got a flat, who would you rather see coming around the crater? Some guy in one of those Pillsbury Doughboy suits who grew up in Chicago and has a Ph.D in astronautics? Or a fellow from Tok driving a beater pick-up full of rusty tools and dogs?

Of course, somebody would have to figure out how to make a spacesuit for a dog. But that's just details. As long as it can be patched with duct tape, practically anything will do.

Clearly, what the moon colony needs are people with practical experience in a forbidding climate. Not a bunch of button-pushing fitness fanatics with zero experience trying to put a generator back together at 30 below."

*Lol...I needed this.

--Cindy

P.S.: Who the heck is Wally Hickel?

Byron · 2004-01-13 11:36:05

Just wanted to give Cindy a sincere congratulations for reaching her 3000th post!

Here's to many happy postings from our most prolific member on NewMars...

B

Mundaka · 2004-01-13 12:03:59

Cobra Commander · 2004-01-13 18:19:45

Anybody know a potential colonist who can fix a decent plate of Monglian Beef? Chris

Check!

Well, here's my off-hand thoughts on desireable traits for colonists:

1. Ability to fix machinery with inappropriate tools and insufficient quantities of unsuitable parts, a total disregard for design specifications and familiarity with the fine art of duct tape.

2. Not squeamish about drinking their own urine. Let's be honest, that is what water recycling is about. Still, please, use the filter.

3. The "rugged individualist" type is less suitable than the "independent thinking team player" type. Socialist idealogues are the worse possible choice. A Red Mars is a dead Mars, one could say.

4. Anyone who holds the belief that the settlement of Mars will usher in a new dawn for human civilization and from that time forward we will be more rational and peaceful... Out.

5. Someone social enough to work well with their fellow crewmates but who does not need social contact. Mild misanthropy may not be a bad thing.

6. Ability to judge consequences through unbiased eyes, concern for how those consequences will affect the others, and willingness to accept responsibilty when they blow it. Seeing the world as it really is, not how it should be.

7. Willingness and ability to make difficult decisions quickly. Even when it means that people die.

8. Educated people are needed, but not over-educated. Some of the most highly educated people I have ever known have spouted some of the most asinine ideas I've ever heard. Having a doctorate in some arcane field of engineering is great, but if you can't pick up a wrench and work with junk you're not much help.

Bill White · 2004-01-13 18:41:04

Jeez, Louise!

First off I pretty much agreed with clark on something. Now I pretty much agree with you Cobra Commander. Next maybe I will find something A.J. Armitage wrote to agree with. Add Scott C. Beach and maybe Spiderman or GCNRevenger and I can have a full house of agreement going on today.

Or a full something or another. . .

Seriously, I do pretty much agree with these character traits.

No appendix or wisdom teeth is wise also and a lack of heart disease or cancer in the family tree isn't a bad idea either.

Maybe that team from StarGate SG-1. How about them?

Mad Grad Student · 2004-01-13 21:09:51

If people are sent to Mars to stay long term, i.e. colonize it, what human traits are best?
I believe we need pirates, not Ph.D.s. We need survivors!!!

First off, 3:30 am? Do you guys ever sleep, or is that the daytime wherever you live? I've seen people in my time zone posting at 2 in the morning, now that takes some loyalty to the forums.

Anyway, I disagree with this statement. First of all, if you get a hundred people who are all rowdy, agressive, and self-leading you run into some major problems with personality. No one wants to take orders from anyone, and everyone just fights over who gets to lead. Trust me, I'm doing a science project right now with three other people who all want to be the group leader, it's not a pretty picture.

Secondly, a PhD is actually a pretty good asset either on Earth or Mars. I've heard some people saying things like it's only a glorified essay or that it doesn't mean anything, but I don't believe this to be true. A PhD shows that you've worked most of your body parts off for it and you are now among the top ten thousand people on Earth/Mars in that area. Running a Mars colony will require creativity and resourcefullness, not brute force.

So, here's my list:

1) Resourcefullness. The Mars colony will require some serious handling of resources to stay operational.
2) Intellegance. As I said above, brains over brawn are needed.
3) Creativity. No one should just be happy with the status quo. If one improvent brings, say, a 5% scrubber efficency that's huge.
4) Adaptibility. The colony will be doing everything physically possible to kill itself and everyone in it. Meanwhile the colonists will have to do everything humanly possible just to keep up. I anticipate that may McGyvered components will run the base pretty quickly.
5) Perserverance. I can not stress this enough. Everything will seem like an insurmountable obstacle, we need people who can handle this.
6) Ability to handle stess. It will be very HARD to run the base. Colonists need to know how to deal with this.
7) Good genes. It would be nice to get off to a good start. No people at heavy risk of disease, but light risk would be tolerable.
8) Adventureness. If colonists can see running the base as an adventure, hey, that's nice.
9) Ability to tolerate people, but be hard when necessary. Name of this trait says it all.
10) Mentally stable. We don't want anyone cracking up under the thought that one can never leave the dome without a space suit now, do we?

Come to think of it, are these traits really important. Except for #7, the second generation will not have been screened for any of these traits. It's just luck of the draw from there on out. My pick for an example of people is Shackleton's 1914 expedition. They had to live off of Antarctica for two years before going 700 miles in a lifeboat for rescue. That track record says it all.

realmacaw · 2004-01-14 05:02:42

The astronauts will need to get along well.

Last year I joined a small club that had 3 main members and their wives and a few extraneous people who rarely came. Mostly it was just 3 main members. We all were passionate about the same cause. You would think we could get along. It started with us having dinner parties at a restaurant and one guy's house. In the beginning we got along great. But it soon went down hill quickly because one member was extremely different and had used a lot of drugs in his life and he was against doing anything that was the normal conventional way. That may sound fine but drug people usually have severe mood swings, which he had. One day he'd be nice, the next day he'd be angry. Within about six months the entire club broke up because of that one individual. It only takes ONE bad apple to ruin a barrel of apples. One person can make life hell for everyone else in a group. This is why the group must get along.

Brian.

hjs · 2004-01-14 06:14:50

If people are sent to Mars to stay long term, i.e. colonize it, what human traits are best?

Anyway, I disagree with this statement. First of all, if you get a hundred people who are all rowdy, agressive, and self-leading you run into some major problems with personality. No one wants to take orders from anyone, and everyone just fights over who gets to lead. Trust me, I'm doing a science project right now with three other people who all want to be the group leader, it's not a pretty picture.
Secondly, a PhD is actually a pretty good asset either on Earth or Mars. I've heard some people saying things like it's only a glorified essay or that it doesn't mean anything, but I don't believe this to be true. A PhD shows that you've worked most of your body parts off for it and you are now among the top ten thousand people on Earth/Mars in that area. Running a Mars colony will require creativity and resourcefullness, not brute force.
So, here's my list:
1) Resourcefullness. The Mars colony will require some serious handling of resources to stay operational.
2) Intellegance. As I said above, brains over brawn are needed.
3) Creativity. No one should just be happy with the status quo. If one improvent brings, say, a 5% scrubber efficency that's huge.
4) Adaptibility. The colony will be doing everything physically possible to kill itself and everyone in it. Meanwhile the colonists will have to do everything humanly possible just to keep up. I anticipate that may McGyvered components will run the base pretty quickly.
5) Perserverance. I can not stress this enough. Everything will seem like an insurmountable obstacle, we need people who can handle this.
6) Ability to handle stess. It will be very HARD to run the base. Colonists need to know how to deal with this.
7) Good genes. It would be nice to get off to a good start. No people at heavy risk of disease, but light risk would be tolerable.
8) Adventureness. If colonists can see running the base as an adventure, hey, that's nice.
9) Ability to tolerate people, but be hard when necessary. Name of this trait says it all.
10) Mentally stable. We don't want anyone cracking up under the thought that one can never leave the dome without a space suit now, do we?
Come to think of it, are these traits really important. Except for #7, the second generation will not have been screened for any of these traits. It's just luck of the draw from there on out. My pick for an example of people is Shackleton's 1914 expedition. They had to live off of Antarctica for two years before going 700 miles in a lifeboat for rescue. That track record says it all.

Yes, the Shackleton team members were all survivers!
Their main goals were, we go to the Antarctica, we need assistance by the other crew, and we all want to come home.
And they did it, because of the leadership of Shackleton.
First you have to get the leader, then he will select his fellows.
Let us talk about this subject:
Who and what type will be the leader?
1) Commander
2) Captain
3) Coach
4) Scout
5) Big Boss
6) NASA Official
7) The President
to be continued
hjs

Martian Friend · 2004-01-14 13:46:09

We need to send people who are able to be friendly and non violent.

There are Martians living on Mars (I know many do not believe this) and we need to send people who are willing to get along with different beings.

All ages (send a range from birth to 100)
Both sexes
All races
Anybody can be trained to fix a motor but only some are able to have real people skills.

A.J.Armitage · 2004-01-15 18:52:52

Mundaka;

Ergo, my hypothesis: Chinese restaurants are the Ur-nuclei around which civilization accretes.

A little known fact: Abram was eating General Tso's Chicken in the Canton Wok when God told him to go wandering.

Hazer · 2004-01-15 19:36:42

Question: Although there is very likely life on Mars, how do you make friends with microscopic life?
Give it a nice petri dish?

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Re: What does it take to be a good Martian? - Human traits best suited for Martians

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