"Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

Palomar · 2002-06-20 14:39:43

I just now received in the mail the following items from the Mars Society:

1. The 5th International MS Convention registration form and list of conference sessions.

2. A 1-page letter (printed on both sides) from Dr. Zubrin regarding topic outlines for discussion at the Convention.

3. The "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement," which states:

a. I am entitled to 1 acre of Marsian land;
b. the recommendation any future Marsian polity should reward me with this 1 acre of land;
c. I should have the assurance of the ability to enjoy this land through the right to free immigration and full Marsian citizenship.

What was your reaction to receiving this, if you've already gotten it in the mail? The sentiments expressed are nice, and I view this as a request from him that MS members be recognized with rewards for their support of the MS. However, upon reading it, I did feel perplexed. I really don't like the idea of people *owning* parts of Mars. "No, you cannot explore that canyon; it's on my property." "Mons Olympus belongs to the USA; foreigners will have to apply for rights to study it."

Mars "belongs" to humanity. I think it should be absolutely open to everyone who can go, with wide-open possibilities for settlement, eventual colonization, exploration, working at terraforming, etc., before we even begin to think about dishing up pieces of "the pie." I think the only ownership persons on Mars should have are their own personal items and their immediate living and sleeping quarters; everyone needs a level of privacy and "space."

What are Dr. Zubrin's political leanings?

--Cindy

Byron · 2002-06-20 15:15:36

The way space law is written now, there is no way to claim any extraterrestial body, although there's various "organizations" on the web that keep track of so-called "claims." I think what the Mars Society is doing to give their members 'more bang for the buck,' by passing out these 1-acre "certificates"...if that thing were to be passed down through the generations and actually taken to Mars, I seriously doubt one would be able to actually lay claim to that land.

I think what will happen on Mars is that only land that is physically occupied would be under "ownership," like the area under a dome and surrounding anxillary facilities. There's no way someone will be able to come along and actually claim Olympus or Mariner...who's going to go there and fence it off, for one thing?...lol.

I would just treat that "certificate" as a conversation piece, as that's all it'll ever be good for...

B

Adrian · 2002-06-20 16:09:45

I have yet to receive this mailing (I'll probably get it when I return home from uni) but it sounds like a cheap stunt to me, something which I thought would be below the Mars Society. We all know that these so-called certificates of ownership of land amount to essentially nothing given that they don't have any kind of authority behind them - now, if the USA backed them I'd look twice, but not for anyone else. I would rather they have used the certificate paper for telling people about interesting Mars news or facts instead.

Phobos · 2002-06-20 17:26:43

If people can't claim land I doubt if there will be many economic reasons for going to Mars. I don't know what the difference is between a government official telling you not to go on that patch of land or an individual owner telling you the same thing. Of course if your an anarchist nothing what I just wrote applies.

JGM · 2002-06-20 22:34:03

I have yet to receive this mailing (I'll probably get it when I return home from uni) but it sounds like a cheap stunt to me, something which I thought would be below the Mars Society.

I agree entirely. I can't see how this does anything positive for the Mars Society, and probably makes us look more like opportunistic nuts. Mars settlement advocates have been throwing around a lot of great ideas in regards to new forms of government, new attitudes about communal living, etc. In my opinion it shows a lack of respect for the intelligence of the MS membership to presume we'll go batty over our handful of Mars dirt and automatically accept the premise that private land ownership should be taken for granted.

Joel

Palomar · 2002-06-21 10:44:38

If people can't claim land I doubt if there will be many economic reasons for going to Mars. I don't know what the difference is between a government official telling you not to go on that patch of land or an individual owner telling you the same thing. Of course if your an anarchist nothing what I just wrote applies.

No, I'm not an anarchist. I just think that any notions of claiming land should wait a long, long time.

The piece of paper sent me expresses a sentiment of dividing up the land -- already. And though this piece of paper has no intrinsic value whatsoever, I want to see Mars keep in the "free and clear" for as long a period of time as possible. There will be so much to explore and do, once humans get there. The last thing we need are nations fighting over who's astronauts stepped on who's property, that region is off-limits unless you get permission from us, etc. Sure, they cannot (I suppose) erect fences, and I don't know how they'd enforce "this zone is ours, that is yours"...but I just want that whole mess avoided for as long as possible.

--Cindy

MS member since 6/01

Byron · 2002-06-21 12:13:57

The piece of paper sent me expresses a sentiment of dividing up the land -- already. And though this piece of paper has no intrinsic value whatsoever, I want to see Mars keep in the "free and clear" for as long a period of time as possible. There will be so much to explore and do, once humans get there. The last thing we need are nations fighting over who's astronauts stepped on who's property, that region is off-limits unless you get permission from us, etc. Sure, they cannot (I suppose) erect fences, and I don't know how they'd enforce "this zone is ours, that is yours"...but I just want that whole mess avoided for as long as possible.
--Cindy
MS member since 6/01

I agree--the Mars Society really shouldn't be promoting the idea of "claimable land" even before anyone goes there...I'll make sure they hear my opinion about this when I go to the Convention in August.

Mars should be treated as a place that's just there, and any part of Mars that is not in current use by settlers should be kept free and open for exploration and study by anyone, and when it comes to utilizing resources, (aquifers and the like), the principle of "first come, first served" should be used. Considering that Mars has a land area equivilent to all the land here on Earth--I think there'll be enough to go around for a very long time...

B

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#1 2002-06-20 14:39:43

Re: "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

#2 2002-06-20 15:15:36

Re: "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

#3 2002-06-20 16:09:45

Re: "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

#4 2002-06-20 17:26:43

Re: "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

#5 2002-06-20 22:34:03

Re: "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

#6 2002-06-21 10:44:38

Re: "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

#7 2002-06-21 12:13:57

Re: "Certificate of Deserved Entitlement" - An item received via mail from MS

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