Spirit & Opportunity

Palomar · 2004-01-02 06:30:56

*Am starting this thread as Spirit is due to descend on Mars tomorrow (!!!).

The article above gives a good description as to the size, weight, etc., of Spirit and Opportunity in comparison to 1997's Sojourner (Pathfinder mission): S & O weigh 384 pounds (each)...Sojourner weighed 24 pounds. S & O are golf-cart in size compared to Sojourner's microwave-oven size.

Article also gives information, of course, as to the purpose of the missions. Says it'll take approximately 9 days of preparation after landing on Mars for the rovers to begin "trundling off" and performing their tasks...etc.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: Another good article about "coping with Marsian jet lag," i.e. setting the alarm clock ahead 40 minutes every night...

http://www.sunspot.net/news....section

Stu · 2004-01-02 07:05:20

Just wanted to wish all the people involved with it - and all the US newmars members out there - the very best of luck with Spirit and Opportunity as they close-in on Mars. I'm sure we're all going to be drooling over stunning pictures and celebrating major science results in a couple of weeks, and I'm really looking forward to sharing some exciting times with everyone here on the forums... :-))

... and I really, *really* hope you don't have to go through any of the torture we Brits are suffering here whilst waiting for Beagle 2 to "phone home"... :-(

Stu

Byron · 2004-01-02 07:08:19

I guess it's time to start holding our collective breaths...with the fate of Beagle still unknown, the onus is now on Spirit to come through with a safe landing...let's hope for the best! Wonder how long it'll be before we see the first pictures, etc. I can't believe it's been almost seven years since the last time there was an operating lander on Mars...

The part about the "Mars-lag" is pretty interesting...my local paper had an article on it as well. At least it's easier to adjust to a longer day than a short one (waking up and going to bed 40 minutes later each day.)

B

Palomar · 2004-01-02 07:55:34

The part about the "Mars-lag" is pretty interesting...my local paper had an article on it as well. At least it's easier to adjust to a longer day than a short one (waking up and going to bed 40 minutes later each day.)
B

*I guess so...but later on they'll have to contend with graveyard-shift hours. I feel sorry for personnel who, like me, don't function well much later than midnight...

From the article: "On the other hand, it means a workday that began at 8 a.m. Earth time at the outset of the mission will begin about 10 p.m. three weeks later and 2:30 a.m. a week after that."

*Yipes. But this is cool --

"To help scientists and engineers adjust, NASA has enlisted experts who train long-distance pilots on how to battle fatigue...It has even ordered 150 custom-made Mars watches."

*I want one of those watches!

Stu: This Yankee is still "pulling for" Beagle 2...definitely NOT forgotten.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-02 08:02:33

I have every confidence in the MER team. There are some good radio programs over at Planetary.org talking basically about how much effort that the teams made over the course of planning and design stages. A whole lot of planning. A whole lot.

My primary problems with MER are 1) that there is no gas spectrometer (OMG! why not?!), and 2) that the uplink from the rovers is only 128kbps for a very short period of time (4 minutes a day). Basically a little under 8 megs of data! A day! Man...

But other than that, I can't wait.

Stu · 2004-01-02 08:08:14

Stu: This Yankee is still "pulling for" Beagle 2...definitely NOT forgotten.

Thanks, I know a lot of people over there and indeed all over the world are wishing our little lost puppy well. All is not lost yet, a point I'll be making VERY forcefully when I'm on a BBC radio show tomorrow night (Well, so late tomorrow night it will actually be Sunday morning!) I gather they're talking live to one of JPL's MER scientists too, so I'm looking forward to hearing what he has to say - if he can speak with his heart in his mouth, poor guy! :-)

Stu

RobertDyck · 2004-01-02 11:09:45

the uplink from the rovers is only 128kbps for a very short period of time (4 minutes a day). Basically a little under 8 megs of data!

The rovers have 3 antennas: A low gain omni-directional antenna that can communicate directly to Earth. It's slow but doesn't require pointing so it works even if the rover has trouble finding Earth. A high gain antenna that must be pointed to Earth. It must be pointed but is faster, between 3.5kbps and 12kbps. The third one is a UHF antenna that communicates to orbiters: Mars Global Surveyor or Mars Odyssey. The Communications page for the Rovers states it can communicate with the rovers for 8 minutes per sol (Martian day). MGS uses an X-band transmitter to communicate with Earth. It transmits at 25 watts, but the signal is less than one millionth of one billionth of a watt when it reaches Earth. This is a very weak signal, and why Deep Space Station 15 is a 34-metre dish. Still, it operates at 85.333kbps. So the UHF antenna may work at 128kbps, but MGS or Odyssey takes 12 minutes to relay to Earth the 8 minutes of data from a rover. If you want a faster link to Earth, you will require larger solar pannels for more power. I think it'll work fine.

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-02 19:06:18

Oops, don't know where the 4 minutes came from. I'm afraid that 60 mbits a day isn't going to be enough for the daily high quality imaging I was hoping for, though. Then again, most of MER's data transmission will be primarily imagry, so I don't know why I'm complaining... I just prefer high resolution color photos to B&W, even though the latter may be more useful for surveying purposes (more bang for the buck?). Guess I'll have to wait and see before complaining.

Byron · 2004-01-03 06:43:03

For all of you "Nova" lovers out there, PBS will be airing a show called "Mars - Dead or Alive" at 8pm Sunday, with an encore on Tuesday. It's about the development of the Spirit rover and the science team behind it, etc. The last couple of minutes of the show will be filled in pending the results of the landing...if it makes it down OK!

B

Byron · 2004-01-03 07:39:45

For those of you who don't have the JPL home page bookmarked yet for the upcoming landing, here it is:

JPL Mars Rovers

I'm beginning to bite my nails now, waiting for the fateful moment tonight for Spirit to make a safe landing....

B

Palomar · 2004-01-03 08:32:57

For those of you who don't have the JPL home page bookmarked yet for the upcoming landing, here it is:
JPL Mars Rovers
I'm beginning to bite my nails now, waiting for the fateful moment tonight for Spirit to make a safe landing....
B

*I've bookmarked it.

Even my husband and sister are interested in the recent Mars missions! I was (happily) surprised when my sister asked "Didn't the British send something to Mars too?" I mean, she never follows stuff like this. Then, "And there are a couple more on the way, right?"

Last evening my husband came in to where I was working on something, informing me that a special news item was ABC Nightly News "about Mars." He sat and watched the item with me, and was interested in the computer animation of the descent of Spirit into the Marsian atmosphere, its being engulfed in air bags and bouncing to a stop.

These missions have caught the attention of my sister and husband, so I'm sure there must a lot of other people who generally don't pay much attention to this sort of thing who have also become interested!

Spirit will land approximately 9:35 p.m. my time (Mountain Standard). Between watching for EST and now PST for various matters...sheesh. Good thing I'm not easily confused by time zones!

--Cindy

P.S.: I'm not biting my nails...just polished them last night! But I am excited, yes -- of course.

Bill White · 2004-01-03 12:59:25

For all of you "Nova" lovers out there, PBS will be airing a show called "Mars - Dead or Alive" at 8pm Sunday, with an encore on Tuesday. It's about the development of the Spirit rover and the science team behind it, etc. The last couple of minutes of the show will be filled in pending the results of the landing...if it makes it down OK!
B

Here is a link to the PBS - Nova television show.

7 PM in Chicagoland.

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-03 13:05:21

Yeah, I should point out the download/watch online link there on that page that Bill linked. I've been planning to watch that way if I'm not able to watch it on PBS. It's going to be really great, assuming most of the content comes from tonights landing (rather than having the end bit have 5 minutes of stuff from tonights landing).

I can't wait!

Rxke · 2004-01-03 17:16:19

Great quote: "We're sending a very complicated system into an unknown environment at a very high rate of speed, so you may wonder why we're all sitting here smiling," Adler said to laughs from a throng of reporters gathered at JPL in Pasadena.

"Right now I feel calm and ready, from which I can only conclude that I don't have a grasp on the situation," he added. "

Still undecided if i will go to sleep tonight or watch the event ...

Rxke · 2004-01-03 17:21:44

Nasa/JPL is doing a greatt PR for Mars, right now, the computeranimations (ok, WE've seen them months before, but i still re-watch that awesome atmospheric entry part... Great sensation of adventure....)) are impressive for the casual viewer... A lot of people are following this...

Let's hope for the best... Let's hope for some barks from a little probe, too, tomorrow morning!

Stu · 2004-01-03 20:10:13

Lots of us over here on this side of the pond are eagerly anticipating the first signal from Spirit too... best of luck to everyone involved!

Seeing the amazing images from STARDUST meant it had been an exciting day already, but I've just been on a BBC radio program for the last hour, as part of a panel discussing the imminent arrival of Spirit (and the various Mars missions) and the chances/importance of finding life on Mars and in the Universe, and it was good to be able to personally wish one of the JPL MER team "good luck" over the airwaves...

But SOOOO frustrating that while all 3 of us panel members were trying to discuss the benefits of space technology (unmanned and manned programs) and stress how space exploration is just part of our nature, the presenter was ***obsessed*** with the cost of space missions!! He kept harking on and on about how many millions of pounds or dollars each mission has cost, and asking us why it really matters if we find life, or even water, on Mars. We tried to make him see that money spent on space is spent here, on EARTH, in wages for the people who design, build and fly the probes... and how medical research, engineering, computing and all fields of science benefit from space research... and how finding life on Mars will ultimately tell us about our *own* origins, and help us understand our place in the Universe... but the guy just didn't get it, and the very last phone-in caller (a sheer coincidence, I'm sure...) was a vehement anti-space gentleman, who wanted all space research expenditure stopped because it's a waste of money. We each got about 10 seconds to reply, then he was given the last word, calling us - and space researchers etc - "Pathetic", and that was it...

No, not angry, I was delighted and honoured to be invited on the show, but sad that there are still people out there who don't see The Big Picture, and don't realise how much we gain spiritually and emotionally from space exploration. Very sad.

I mean, Beagle cost around the same as a big budget Hollywood film, and Spirit and Opportunity less than a Stealth bomber. What would you rather see, PEARL HARBOUR 2 or BAD BOYS 3, or pictures of martian microbes with consequences for the whole of mankind? What represents the better use of a couple of dollars - phoning in a vote on POP IDOL or contributing to a rover which will send back pictures of the deserts of Mars which will be hailed all around the world, and alter our perception of both Mars and our own place in the universe?

Like I said, frustrating. But it was pretty cool to be sitting there (on my own :-( Everyone else was in London, I am 300 miles further north, so it was just me, headphones and a microphone - and a cup of cold BBC coffee!) actually listening to one of the guys at JPL giving a life update on Spirit, and to wish him luck, and it was personally satisfying to be able to stand up for Beagle too.

I hope that by this time tomorrow we've all got something to celebrate - the recovery of Beagle's signal by MEx, and the successful arrival of Spirit :-)

Good luck everyone!

Stu

P.S. A newly-released MOC image of the Gusev interior shows, what looks to me at least, LOTS of dust devil tracks right across the centre of the landing ellipse. Hey, maybe Spirit will get some fantastic shots of a dust devil whirring across the horizon...

Stu · 2004-01-03 20:12:58

Sorry, forgot to put a link to the "new picture" I mentioned. Here you go...

http://www.marstoday.com/viewsr.html?pid=11430

Stu

Palomar · 2004-01-03 20:37:25

But SOOOO frustrating that while all 3 of us panel members were trying to discuss the benefits of space technology (unmanned and manned programs) and stress how space exploration is just part of our nature, the presenter was ***obsessed*** with the cost of space missions!! He kept harking on and on about how many millions of pounds or dollars each mission has cost, and asking us why it really matters if we find life, or even water, on Mars. We tried to make him see that money spent on space is spent here, on EARTH, in wages for the people who design, build and fly the probes... and how medical research, engineering, computing and all fields of science benefit from space research... and how finding life on Mars will ultimately tell us about our *own* origins, and help us understand our place in the Universe... but the guy just didn't get it, and the very last phone-in caller (a sheer coincidence, I'm sure...) was a vehement anti-space gentleman, who wanted all space research expenditure stopped because it's a waste of money. We each got about 10 seconds to reply, then he was given the last word, calling us - and space researchers etc - "Pathetic", and that was it...

*Of course, that guy probably wouldn't bat an eye if many millions of pounds/dollars/whatever were to be spent building a new multiplex sports arena or speedway, etc.

I think of people who grumble about the price of this and the price of that (worthwhile things which can benefit large segments of society), but who have zero qualms about shelling out $4.75 per pack of cigarettes day after day, week after week. You know, the sort who whine about the price of milk and bread, but are always lighting up.

--Cindy

Stu · 2004-01-03 20:57:22

*Of course, that guy probably wouldn't bat an eye if many millions of pounds/dollars/whatever were to be spent building a new multiplex sports arena or speedway, etc.

I think he was being quite sincere to be fair to him, he was arguing that the money would be better spent on medical research. We tried to explain in our precious "ten seconds each" that equipment, software and techniques used for processing space imagery is now used by the medical profession for scanning the human body (Ian Ridpath) and that valuable medical research is being conducted all the time onboard ISS (me) but nope, he wasn't having it.

The irony is, the guy probably didn't think twice about the newspaper he bought today, or the cup of coffee, or the money he spent on the licence he pays the BBC to allow him to watch TV and listen to the radio. The money he paid for Beagle, thru his taxes, was probably less than the price of those things combined, on just one day.

Of course, I wish I'd thought of that a couple of hours ago... :-/

Stu

Palomar · 2004-01-03 21:18:45

For those of you who don't have the JPL home page bookmarked yet for the upcoming landing, here it is:
JPL Mars Rovers

*I just reopened the link Byron provided earlier in the day...get a load of the "Six Minutes of Terror"...wow. It's got to slow down from a speed of 12,000 mph to zero in those six minutes...geez!

Stu: It's great that you were able to address these ideals on the radio. Is that opportunity via your astronomical society or New Mars? Perhaps you've told us and I missed it or forgot (hard to keep track of so much information posted daily at these boards).

As I type this, Step Two (Spacecraft Rotates) should have commenced, perhaps completed.

--Cindy

Stu · 2004-01-03 21:25:30

Is that opportunity via your astronomical society or New Mars?

Well, of course I plug New Mars whenever and wherever I can ;-) but this thing tonight was via me a) being a regular "guest" on my local BBC radio station's news and magazine programs as an "astronomy expert" (ha!) whenever there's a spacey story making the headlines, and b) because I contributed to a phone-in show on the same station on Christmas Eve, the day before Beagle landed. The station invited me to go on the panel because they kept my details on file and I guess they thought I'd provide balance with the two *genuine* experts on the panel ;-)

No way I'm going to bed yet, even tho it's 03.24 here in the UK. Watching a 24 hr news channel (they're showing a live feed from the control centre right now as I type this) and checking New Mars every few mins for postings... nice to have everyone's company :-)

Stu

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-03 21:41:58

Watching NASA TV now. The landing is very very soon, less than an hour now. The turn seems to be okay, but we won't get a confirmation for another five minutes or so (maybe I should just wait until then to post- nah). This is all really so exciting!

Mars totally fills the live update CGI thingy here. This is amazing.

Stu · 2004-01-03 21:48:46

Good NASA TV weblink here for anyone without access to it on a real TV but wants to watch what's happening...

http://www.unitedspacealliance.com/live/NASATV.htm

Stu

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-03 22:21:48

Good live link for status:http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera … tonly.html

Looks like she's doing good. The tones have begun transmitting. We'll see what happens in... 15 minutes!! Man. You can feel the tension in the JPL room.

Josh Cryer · 2004-01-03 22:36:31

YES!!!!!!! SHE'S BOUNCING!!!

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Re: Spirit & Opportunity

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