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#51 2026-07-28 20:00:50
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
I believe that I am getting a better idea of what Solid Fueled Electric Plasma thrusters can do, at this time.
Query: "What is the performance of the Neumann Drive relative to other electric rockets?"
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Neumann Drive Performance vs. Other Electric Rockets
The Neumann Drive is a solid-metal propellant, solar-electric ion thruster that uses its patented Centre-Triggered Pulsed Cathodic Arc Thruster (CTPCAT) technology to convert a solid conductive fuel rod into plasma for thrust Neumann Space+1. Its performance is defined by high specific impulse (Isp), exceptional Δv capability, and rapid, on-demand operation.Key performance metrics and advantages:
High Specific Impulse & Δv: The Neumann Drive can achieve tens of km/s exhaust velocities, enabling high specific impulse and exceptional Δv for its class Neumann Space. This is comparable to or better than many established electric thrusters like Hall-effect or gridded ion engines, which typically operate in the 2,000–3,000 s Isp range, while the Neumann Drive’s plasma exhaust can exceed 30,000 s Isp in theory due to the high plasma velocity Neumann Space+1.
No Warm-Up Required: Unlike many electric thrusters that need time to reach optimal performance, the Neumann Drive can produce thrust immediately, enabling on-demand manoeuvres Neumann Space.
No Neutraliser Needed: The electron-rich discharge self-neutralises the plasma, eliminating the need for an exhaust neutraliser, a common requirement in ion thrusters Neumann Space.
Solid, Inert Propellant: Uses solid conductive metals or alloys (e.g., copper, aluminium, titanium) that are chemically inert, non-toxic, and radiation-tolerant. This allows in-orbit refuelling and potential in-situ resource utilisation (ISRU) of space debris Neumann Space+1.
Scalability & Power Flexibility: Multiple thruster heads can fire simultaneously, and pulsed operation allows efficient use of a range of power levels without significant Isp loss www.space.gov.au.
Flight Heritage: The ND-50 variant has been successfully commissioned on the UK’s CarbSAR mission, confirming in-orbit reliability and operational readiness www.space.gov.au.
Comparison to other electric rockets:
Hall-effect thrusters (e.g., NASA’s 6 kW Xenon thruster) offer high Isp (~3,000 s) but lower exhaust velocity and require neutralisers. The Neumann Drive’s plasma exhaust is faster and self-neutralising, potentially offering higher Δv for the same propellant mass.
Gridded ion engines (e.g., NASA’s NSTAR) have high Isp (~3,500–4,000 s) but require complex grids and warm-up. The Neumann Drive avoids these issues and can start instantly.
Pulsed plasma thrusters (PPTs) have lower Isp (~1,000–2,000 s) and require high-voltage pulses; the Neumann Drive’s CTPCAT design offers higher Isp and more controllable thrust.
Bottom line:
The Neumann Drive’s high Isp, rapid response, no-neutraliser operation, and solid propellant flexibility give it competitive or superior performance to many established electric thrusters, especially for missions needing high Δv, quick manoeuvres, and in-orbit refuelling. Its unique solid-metal propellant also opens new possibilities for space debris recycling and mission extension Neumann Space+2.
Query: "What is the performance of the Magdrive relative to other electric rockets?"
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Magdrive Performance vs. Other Electric Rockets
Magdrive’s Rogue thruster is designed to outperform many conventional electric propulsion systems in thrust level, efficiency, and integration potential for small spacecraft.Key performance metrics
Thrust: Tens of millinewtons (mN), an order of magnitude higher than similar-sized ion or Hall-effect thrusters, which typically produce only tenths of mN magdrive.space+1.
Specific impulse (Isp): Up to 1500 seconds, with the ability to adjust Isp for different mission needs magdrive.space+1.
Energy storage: 3kg system with 10kJ onboard energy, enabling rapid discharge for high-power plasma generation magdrive.space+1.
Mass: ~2.5kg dry mass including propellant, processor, and energy storage, fitting in a single 2U CubeSat magdrive.space.
Thrust vectoring: Up to 10° for main propulsion or attitude control magdrive.space.
Power draw: Variable from ~0.5W to 150W, with rapid pulsed-power delivery to metal propellant Aerospace America.
Comparison to other electric rockets
Ion/Hall-effect thrusters: High Isp (often 2000–3000s) but very low thrust (0.01–0.1N), requiring large arrays for useful force. Magdrive’s Rogue trades some Isp for much higher thrust, enabling high-cadence maneuvers and satellite servicing that are difficult with traditional electric thrusters Aerospace America+1.
Pulsed plasma thrusters (PPTs): Similar to Magdrive’s design, but usually require large metal propellant loads and are less efficient. Magdrive’s compact, storable-metal design and rapid energy discharge improve efficiency and integration dl.iafastro.directory.
Chemical thrusters: Much higher thrust than electric systems, but lower Isp and higher propellant mass. Magdrive’s electric approach offers a thrust-to-weight ratio and specific impulse that bridge the gap between chemical and high-Isp electric systems dl.iafastro.directory.
AdvantagesHigher thrust for small spacecraft enables more frequent avoidance maneuvers, rendezvous, and deorbiting Aerospace America+1.
Storable metal propellant avoids cryogenics and pressurization, simplifying integration and enabling refueling from space debris or asteroids Aerospace America.
Variable Isp and deep throttling allow flexible mission profiles magdrive.space+1.
Limitations
Lower Isp than some advanced ion thrusters means less fuel efficiency for long-duration missions.
Requires significant onboard energy storage, which limits continuous operation compared to continuous-power electric thrusters.
Bottom line: Magdrive’s Rogue thruster is not the most efficient in terms of Isp, but it is significantly more powerful than most small electric thrusters, making it ideal for maneuver-intensive, small-satellite missions where high thrust and rapid response are priorities over maximum fuel efficiency magdrive.space+2.
The Neumann Drive and Magdrive are sponsored by small companies, and I feel can be considered to be in their infancy.
Query: "What is the performance of the NASA Nuclear-Lithium spacecraft to Mars relative to other electric rockets?"
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NASA’s Lithium-Fed Nuclear Electric Thruster vs. Other Electric Rockets
NASA’s latest lithium-fed magnetoplasmadynamic (MPD) thruster is a major leap in electric propulsion performance for Mars missions. In February 2026, a prototype tested at JPL’s CoMeT vacuum facility reached 120 kilowatts of power — more than 25 times the highest-power electric thrusters currently flying on NASA’s Psyche spacecraft NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)+1. This is the highest U.S. electric propulsion power level ever achieved in a test.How it Compares to Other Electric Rockets
Current NASA electric thrusters (e.g., Hall-effect and ion engines on Psyche) operate at ~4–5 kW, producing low but continuous thrust over long durations Metal Tech News.Lithium-fed MPD thrusters use lithium metal vapor accelerated by electromagnetic fields, enabling much higher power and thrust density than solar-powered electric systems NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)+1.
Nuclear electric propulsion (NEP) systems like this can scale to megawatt-class power for crewed missions, far beyond the kilowatt range of current solar-powered electric rockets nasaspacenews.com+1.
Performance Benefits for Mars Missions
Propellant efficiency: Electric propulsion uses up to 90% less propellant than chemical rockets, reducing fuel mass and enabling larger payloads NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)+1.Transit time: With nuclear power, lithium-fed MPD thrusters could cut Mars transit times to ~2 months instead of 6–9 months for chemical rockets nasaspacenews.com.
Thrust capability: The lithium-fed MPD’s high power allows for steady acceleration that builds speed over time, making it ideal for heavy, crewed spacecraft nasaspacenews.com.
Relative to Other Electric Rocket Types
Ion engines (e.g., NASA’s Dawn, Deep Space 1): High specific impulse but very low thrust; best for small, long-duration missions.Hall-effect thrusters (e.g., Psyche): Moderate specific impulse and thrust; good for medium payloads but limited by solar power.
Lithium-fed MPD: Higher thrust and power than ion/Hall-effect, enabling faster, heavier missions — but still lower thrust than chemical rockets, just far more efficient in propellant use.
In summary: NASA’s lithium-fed MPD thruster is orders of magnitude more powerful than current electric rockets, making it a leading candidate for nuclear electric propulsion in crewed Mars missions, with the potential to drastically reduce travel time and fuel needs compared to both chemical rockets and existing electric systems NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL)+2.
So, I anticipate lots of room for development for these three systems. The NASA system uses Lithium, but my guess is it might use another substance with lesser performance.
My current interest in this is not so much ships that sprint at high speed between Earth and Mars, but "Generation Ships" that never leave the solar system (Until Fusion becomes real).
Imagine a ship that is like a single cell, with sufficient metabolism including humans and robots, to process various materials and build a replica ship or to expand the original ship.
Generally only using Metals, Carbon, Silicon as propellants, conserving water and Nitrogen and some Carbon.
And yes, if fusion becomes real or even if nuclear fission becomes massive, eventually a ship might stop off at Haleys Comet and begin working with it.
Ending Pending 
Last edited by Void (2026-07-28 20:24:38)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#52 2026-07-29 05:52:10
- Void
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
Cultural Inertia is a problem at this time. At the emergence of humans in space, it was not realistic to propel a spacecraft with metal propellants and it was not realistic to anticipate huge amounts of artificial labor.
There are high difficulty propellants such as might come from Earth, or other planets in general. Low gravity propellants might often come from Asteroids and some moons, I expect.
Where stony and metal asteroids are common metal and Silicon propellants might be had. By about 2.5 AU, it starts to look like Carbonaceous may be common with Metals, Silicon, Carbon, and burnable gasses becoming available.
By 3.0 AU it may be that water-based propulsions, and even water plasma propulsion may be a reasonable method.
So, Deimos and Phobos are perhaps the beginning of low difficulty propellants. An exception to this could be if some method to lift mass effectively from smaller terrestrial objects like our Moon and Mars. That option, Moon or Mars is yet to be demonstrated as practical/actual.
In the days of O'Neill, Solid-Plasma propulsion and Robotics were not major factors in planning. At most mass shot out of a Mass Drive to propel a spaceship or Water based propulsion were the expectation, I think.
So, now I have suggested Interplanetary Generation Ships. (Not Interstellar). The ability to do back and fourth space trips more similar to the efforts similar to NASA will likely also exist, but Actuation Arks I think are a good way to go, to set up Hearth-Places in various spots in the solar system.
I think we have much better possibilities for energy resources in space than existed in the times of O'Niell.
While Nuclear Fission has value, solar is not so bad either. Concentrating mirrors can do a lot to overcome it's shortcommings.
Nuclear Fusion will change the story, as both Mars and Titan will become much more usable for development.
However, if Hearth-Places are established in the asteroid belt, it may be quite possible to send metals to Titan, and in that case Titan may become the most Habitable World, beyond Earth.
An Actuation Ark could be mostly robotic with a small number of humans. I could propose structures for it. That could involve on low maintenance habitation method for robots, and a higher maintenance habitation method for a small number of humans.
Ending Pending
Artificial Labor:
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Artificial labor, driven by AI, is reshaping the workforce by automating tasks, augmenting human work, and creating both opportunities and challenges for employment across industries.
Current and Projected Impacts
AI technologies, particularly generative AI, are already capable of replacing certain tasks in the labor market. A study by MIT found that AI could potentially replace 11.7% of the U.S. workforce, affecting sectors such as finance, healthcare, and professional services, representing up to $1.2 trillion in wages
CNBC
CNBC
. Early evidence shows that entry-level workers in AI-exposed occupations have experienced a 16% relative decline in employment, while more experienced workers remain largely unaffected
Stanford University
Stanford University
. However, broader labor market analyses indicate that economy-wide disruptions are gradual, often taking decades to fully materialize, similar to past technological shifts like computers and the internet
Yale University
Yale University
.Occupations Most Affected
AI impacts are concentrated in roles where tasks can be easily automated or augmented. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, occupations such as software developers, database administrators, financial analysts, and legal assistants are susceptible to AI-driven changes. Some roles, like software development, may see employment growth due to AI augmenting productivity, while others, particularly routine or entry-level positions, face potential displacement
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
+1
.Workforce Adaptation and AI Literacy
To address these changes, the U.S. Department of Labor has introduced an AI Literacy Framework, providing guidance for workforce and education systems to develop AI skills. This framework emphasizes flexibility across industries and roles, aiming to equip workers with the knowledge to adapt to AI-driven labor changes and participate in the evolving economy
U.S. Department of Labor
U.S. Department of Labor
. Reskilling and upskilling initiatives are critical, especially for workers in occupations most exposed to AI automation.Key Considerations
Task vs. Job Displacement: AI often automates specific tasks rather than entire jobs, allowing humans to focus on higher-value activities.
Generational Effects: Early-career workers are more vulnerable to AI-induced employment shifts, highlighting the need for targeted support and training
Stanford University
Stanford University
.
Long-Term Outlook: While AI adoption is accelerating, widespread labor market transformation is expected to unfold over years, not months, giving policymakers and organizations time to implement adaptation strategies
Yale University
Yale University
.
Conclusion
Artificial labor, through AI, is transforming the nature of work by automating repetitive tasks, augmenting human capabilities, and reshaping employment patterns. While some jobs face displacement, others will grow or evolve, emphasizing the importance of AI literacy, reskilling, and proactive workforce planning to ensure workers can thrive in an AI-driven economy
Hope that answers it for you (th).
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Last edited by Void (2026-07-29 06:31:01)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#53 2026-07-29 06:56:16
- Void
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
Building on the two previous posts, I want to explore Metal-Plasma Propulsions as Mass Drivers for the Moon.
I recently saw Elon Musk explain impactor protection on a Dragon Capsule.
An outer wall struck is then punctured but vaporizes the impactor. The vapor plume impacts the second wall and embeds itself into it.
The moral of this story is that a plasma deposition might be possible to use to accumulate mass.
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Lowest Practical Lunar Orbit
The lowest practical lunar orbit is generally considered to be in the tens of kilometers range, with ~30–50 km at periapsis being a realistic long‑term operational limit for most missions trendsmask.com. This is far below the ~100 km “low lunar orbit” (LLO) threshold, but much higher than the theoretical minimum.Why it’s not much lower
Gravity field irregularities: The Moon’s surface has large mass concentrations (“mascons”) that cause significant orbital perturbations. These can destabilize orbits at low altitudes, making them hard to maintain without constant station‑keeping Wikipedia+1.Surface relief: Even in the most level regions, mountains, crater rims, and other topography can block orbits at very low altitudes trendsmask.com.
Fuel costs: Station‑keeping maneuvers are required to counteract perturbations, which increases mission cost and complexity.
Real‑world examples
Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO): Operates in a near‑circular polar orbit averaging ~50 km, with periapsis around 35 km trendsmask.com. This is a proven, long‑duration low orbit.Chang’e 2: Achieved a periapsis of 15 km during a flyby, but this was a brief, non‑stationary pass Space Exploration Stack Exchange.
LADEE: Operated at ~20 km × 60 km for a short mission Space Exploration Stack Exchange.
PFS‑2 (Apollo 16): Intended for ~88 km, but due to gravity anomalies, it crashed after passes as low as ~6 km Space Exploration Stack Exchange.
Stable low orbits
Due to the Moon’s gravity field, only certain inclinations allow stable “frozen” orbits at low altitudes — typically 27°, 50°, 76°, and 86° Wikipedia. These orbits naturally balance perturbations and can last for years without major corrections.In summary:
Theoretical minimum: Just above the tallest local terrain (a few meters in ideal cases) trendsmask.com.
Practical minimum for long missions: ~30–50 km at periapsis, with 35 km being a proven benchmark trendsmask.com.
Very low passes: Possible for short missions (e.g., 15–20 km), but require constant corrections and are not sustainable for long durations.
In post #51, three metals to Plasma propulsion methods are described. Each of these will have exhaust speed and exhaust focus.
If you could cross the gap to an orbiting object, say 31 km in altitude, you might hit it with the plume and hope to deposit materials. You would not want to erode materials, which could also be a result.
If you could cross the gap before the expanding plume expanded beyond the size of the object to impact, you might hope to accumulate most of the plume.
So, plume expansion rate matters and velocity matters. Also to condense a metal plasma to an object the object has to be a sufficient heat sink.
From the Moon we could hope to project metals and Silicon in this manner.
So, this would be a method of mass projection not the same as a Mass Driver.
I don't know if it can be done or not, but if can do, then you could have an ideal orbit and multiple matter projectors from various point of the Moon under that orbit.
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Last edited by Void (2026-07-29 07:09:07)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#54 2026-07-30 09:09:33
- Void
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
(th) Made a request: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 07#p240607
I will decide to review your request several times. I was hoping that organizations like SpaceX would show us how to do things. I consider myself to be very much less than to be able to address such a task. In imagining that I might attempt it, it is important to understand that state of mind is very important. Bad emotions will not foster the emergence of higher thoughts, quite the contrary.
Sleeping on it may produce results. We really don't know ourselves unless we have given sleep a chance to rearrange us til we are more sane.
Lets consider what we might hope to do for Ceres, then perhaps dare to think of the Moon. If we cannot do it for Ceres then perhaps for a smaller world such as 10 Hygeia. The reason is we don't want the negative emotions we might have if we fail t make the Moon work.
I read your request yesterday, and have not read it today again yet. I have had some sleep. So, I will put out what is on my mind now and we can consider if we could adapt your requests or change my mind over time.
Query: "What was the exit speed of spin Launch?"
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Exit Speed of SpinLaunch
SpinLaunch’s full-scale Orbital Accelerator is designed to spin a payload to an exit velocity of about 4,700 mph (7,500 km/h or 2.1 km/s) before releasing it upward Wikipedia. This high-speed launch is intended to give the vehicle most of the velocity it needs to reach low Earth orbit, with a small rocket motor igniting at altitude to complete the orbit.For its suborbital prototype at Spaceport America, earlier test flights achieved exit velocities around 1,000 mph in initial demonstrations Big Think. These suborbital tests were used to validate the spin-up and release mechanism, but they did not reach the orbital-scale speeds.
Summary of exit speeds:
Full-scale Orbital Accelerator target: ~4,700 mph (7,500 km/h, 2.1 km/s) Wikipedia
Suborbital prototype test flights: ~1,000 mph Big Think
The difference reflects the scale of the system — the prototype is smaller and used for development, while the full-scale design is intended to launch payloads toward orbit.
So, someone did something but has not finished with a wealth generating product.
I don't like the way they do it. For the Moon, Ceres, or 10 Hygiea I think we want alterations.
Coffee...........
Old people know what this is: https://www.dreamstime.com/illustration … plate.html
Image Quote: 
Well, it was noble for the "O'Neill" crowd to offer something, anything that might work even throwing a bag of regolith at an "L" location.
But I think we have to presume that what is more possible is a device with thrust capabilities that could be mass produced at a reasonably price by artificial labor on the Moon, Ceres, 10 Hygiea.
So, I would turn the Spin Launch horizontal to the surface of a world. And at best we can hope to send a device to orbit partly on its own internal power. The value of the device after that would rely on what it could be recycled to become.
I also want a slide process on a flywheel as method rather than to swing a load on a string. We might even try to involve some kind of centrifugal crossbow mechanism, but lets set that aside for a later attempt at improvements.
Pause............
I had this from some other posts: 
I am presuming a relatively stupid dual boost process. You light the fuse and it burns out. Then if you made orbit the second device is ignited and it burns out to circularize the orbit. I am presuming something more like a solid or hybrid chemical burn device. Perhaps compressed Oxygen and some sort of fuel made out of a regolith material.
So, rather than spinning a load on a tether, as it fires its engine to dismount from the Platen Flywheel, it acquires momentum from the spin of the Platen Flywheel. The load is balanced until then with the load being centered for spin-up.
Then you have to have some strong means to deal with an unbalanced condition that occurs during launch.
I would like this to be able to repeatedly be loaded while spin-up is in play, but lets start with just getting one launch.
The bearings for the platen can be near the center, but of course if this thing starts wobbling, like a top, you might not want to be nearby, if it decides to take a walk across the landscape.
I think that is a good start. Some time today I will read your request again (th).
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Last edited by Void (2026-07-30 11:27:39)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#55 2026-07-30 21:06:53
- Void
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
Building on the previous post: 
The Launch slide might have a method of power within itself Springs or Linear Mass Driver?
I intend that the rocket engine will be firing on launch as well.
The hope would be to be able to robotically load rocket units into the Lauch Slide, from the center, and then tilt the Launch Slide down.
A counterweight on the other side would also move.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-07-30 21:10:45)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#56 2026-07-31 06:51:45
- Void
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
(th) has made the interesting suggestion of adding a rail gun: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 33#p240633
Yes, that is an idea worth consideration. I know that they have some problems like arcing damages the tracks, but that could perhaps be continuously repaired by some sort of 3D printing process, I am guessing. I recall a discussion of in a video by https://www.youtube.com/@Anthrofuturism
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Anthrofuturism and Railguns
Anthrofuturism is a creative and speculative approach to envisioning the future of humanity, often focusing on technological, cultural, and environmental futures. The channel Anthrofuturism (Anthropos Futuria) explores ideas like lunar development, orbital supply chains, and advanced propulsion systems, including railguns, as part of its vision for a human future YouTube.Railguns in Anthrofuturism’s Context
On their YouTube channel, Anthrofuturism has produced videos such as “railgun propulsion energy density amplification”, which examines how railguns can be used to achieve high-speed launches with minimal propellant, potentially enabling space-based or lunar applications YouTube. This aligns with their broader interest in mass drivers and electromagnetic launch systems.A railgun is a type of electromagnetic launcher that uses parallel conductive rails and a current pulse to accelerate a projectile to very high velocities — often exceeding 3 km/s, far beyond conventional guns Wikipedia. Unlike chemical propellant systems, railguns rely on electromagnetic forces, which can reduce the need for explosives and lower projectile costs.
Why Railguns Fit Anthrofuturism’s Vision
High Efficiency: Railguns can achieve high kinetic energy without chemical propellants, making them attractive for space launch or lunar cargo transport Wikipedia.Scalability: Concepts like the orbital supply chain and lunar mass driver (a large-scale railgun system) are central to Anthrofuturism’s ideas for sustainable lunar and space-based infrastructure YouTube.
Energy Density: By using electromagnetic acceleration, railguns can “amplify” energy density in propulsion, enabling heavier payloads or longer ranges YouTube.
Related Concepts
Plasma railguns: A variant that accelerates ionized plasma instead of solid projectiles, with velocities up to several hundred km/s, useful for fusion research and advanced propulsion Wikipedia.Mass drivers: Large-scale electromagnetic launch systems, often envisioned for moving cargo or people in space or on planetary surfaces.
In short, Anthrofuturism’s railgun content is part of a larger speculative framework for human expansion into space, leveraging electromagnetic launch technology to make deep-space and lunar missions more efficient and sustainable.
Again, thanks for the suggestion (th): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gots8OQPRew
Quote:
railgun propulsion energy density amplification
ANTHROFUTURISM
ANTHROFUTURISM
I will review that to refresh my thinking.
Shot Put: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ajaxhist=0
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How To Throw Shot Put Like The USA Record Holder
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But our shot will have self propulsion as well.
But at this time a proper decision to be made is to not yet drill down in those weeds.
Other patches of potential with other weeds might be considered at this point. Then a collection of options to be evaluated for relative productivity.
Alternate Option A: Very large spaceships that simply burn matter to rise to orbit. In the end, it is a question of manipulating matter and energy to achieve a preferred result if possible.
Alternate Option B: Use Metal Plasma Projectors to send matter to a collector in an orbit.
Alternate Option C: Asteroid Materials. Some selected asteroids might be able to donate mass to Earth/Moon orbits.
Alternate Option D: Deimos/Phobos/Mars.
Alternate Option E: ???
In addition we can consider if any of these would benefit from being in combination with something like a electric train drive or "Mass Driver".
I think a rail gun is very nice with capacitors and coils, but could electrical train technology be of any use in space?
Query: "Fastest Electric Train"
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The fastest electric train is currently China’s maglev test train, which reached 700 km/h, surpassing all other high-speed trains.
Overview of Record-Breaking Speeds
The world’s fastest electric train is a superconducting maglev train tested in China, which achieved a top speed of 700 km/h (435 mph) in just two seconds on a 400-meter test track, setting a new milestone for magnetic levitation technology and electric propulsion systems (Hindustan Times, 2025)
Hindustan Times
Hindustan Times
. This train is not yet in commercial service but demonstrates the potential for ultra-high-speed rail travel.Commercially Operating High-Speed Trains
Among trains in regular service, the JR Central L0 Series Maglev in Japan holds the record with a speed of 603 km/h, using magnetic levitation technology to float above the tracks, eliminating friction and allowing extreme speeds (WORLDOSTATS, 2025)
worldostats.com
worldostats.com
. Other notable high-speed electric trains include:CRRC Maglev 600 (China): 600 km/h top speed, showcasing China’s advanced maglev engineering
worldostats.com
worldostats.com
.
Shanghai Maglev (Transrapid SMT, China): First commercial maglev exceeding 500 km/h
worldostats.com
worldostats.com
.
Frecciarossa 1000 (Italy): Conventional high-speed electric train with operational speeds of 300 km/h and a test speed of 389 km/h
Railway Technology
Railway Technology
.
KTX-Sancheon (South Korea): Operates at 305 km/h
Railway Technology
Railway Technology
.
Technological Highlights
Maglev trains achieve these extreme speeds through magnetic levitation, which removes physical contact with rails, reducing friction and allowing smoother acceleration. Key technologies include superconducting magnets, high-power electromagnetic propulsion, and advanced control systems to maintain stability at ultra-high speeds
Hindustan Times
Hindustan Times
. Conventional high-speed electric trains rely on aerodynamic design, lightweight materials, and distributed electric traction to reach speeds over 300 km/h
Railway Technology
Railway Technology
+1
.Global Leaders
Japan and China dominate the field of ultra-fast electric trains, with Japan pioneering maglev technology and China rapidly expanding both maglev and conventional high-speed rail networks. Europe also contributes with advanced high-speed trains like TGV POS (France) and Frecciarossa 1000 (Italy), though their operational speeds are lower than maglev systems
worldostats.com
worldostats.com
.Conclusion
While conventional high-speed electric trains like the Frecciarossa 1000 and KTX-Sancheon operate at speeds around 300–330 km/h, maglev technology has pushed the boundaries, with test speeds reaching 700 km/h in China and 603 km/h in Japan, making them the fastest electric trains in the world today
worldostats.com
worldostats.com
+1
. These advancements indicate a future where ultra-fast, frictionless rail travel could rival air travel for certain routes.
While a train might seem rather conventional, they can carry significant loads such as a chemically propelled rocket.
I think it is inevitable that we will want to find a way to get resources from the Moon, but I also am very interested in this option:
Alternate Option D: Deimos/Phobos/Mars.
In post #51, three devices which use conductive solid Propellants to produce a plasma thrust.
What if we use other tricks in orbit to initiate a sending of such materials to Earth/Moon?
A mass driver of some kind to send a solar powered device that can use "conductive solid Propellants".
Deimos and Phobos will have lots of "conductive solid Propellants" and Mars itself can provide Carbon and CO2 and water.
A problem with solar power at Mars is it is relatively dim, but if we could send a device in to a elliptical solar orbit, so that it falls deeper into the sunlight, it can then circularize it's orbit to move into an Earth/Moon orbit.
Neumann Drive is the most mass efficient, and could spin a launcher. We again could have a slide and that slide might have rail gun properties.
The sent device might have to be folded up and would need to unpack itself after launch, to deploy its power systems and thrust methods.
Its thrust method might be Magdrive, or maybe NASA will adapt their system to use metals other than Lithium.
The Neumann Drive is an energy pig, but we don't have to care, as we can make thin mirrors in orbit of Mars that will provide lots of solar power. Our solar power might be solar panels or supercritical CO2.
Having a system like this in Mars orbit, we could also send machines to the asteroid belt, but they may need nuclear power.
A value of all of this is that from the materials of Deimos/Phobos/Mars, we can build "Athletic" machines to fly to Earth/Moon, or Asteroids, but we can also keep some of the less valuable materials to build shelters for robots and humans in the orbits of Mars.
Blue Alchemist is for the Moon but could likely do very well for Deimos/Phobos/Mars: https://www.blueorigin.com/news/blue-al … astructure
Quote:
Blue Alchemist is Blue Origin's end-to-end, scalable system for turning lunar regolith into solar cells, power transmission wire, silicon, metals, and oxygen. Using molten regolith electrolysis, the process applies an electrical current to separate oxygen from metals such as iron, aluminum, and silicon, all without water, toxic chemicals, or carbon emissions. The silicon is refined to the high purity needed for efficient, radiation-resistant solar cells, while the oxygen can support life support systems, fuel cell regeneration, or be used as rocket propellant. By building these essential resources directly from local materials, Blue Alchemist removes the need to haul vast supplies from Earth, making sustained lunar presence and Mars exploration possible. Blue Alchemist is supported by a NASA Tipping Point award through the agency’s Game Changing Development program, managed by NASA’s Space Technology Mission Directorate.
For Deimos/Phobos/Mars, Carbon and Hydrogen will be in greater supply, so this may make certain matter manipulations easer.
While the device is tuned to make fine materials, it might also make a conductive alloy of several materials reduced of Oxygen that might be suitable as propellants.
Getting materials from Deimos/Phobos/Mars to Earth/Moon, might not be an impossible idea.
But of course we should also use the Moon where it is possible and more practical.
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#57 Yesterday 08:29:11
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
I am taking a recess from my own thinking and exploring and being surprised by the work of greater minds. My main interest here is on rockets made from Lunar Materials. I have been pleasantly surprised!
Query: "Rocket Methods made from Lunar Materials?"
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Rocket Methods and Propulsion from Lunar Materials
Several NASA-led and academic projects are demonstrating how lunar regolith (Moon soil) can be processed into materials for rocket engines, launch/landing pads, and even hybrid propulsion systems.1. Hybrid Rocket Engines from Lunar Metals
Researchers have designed a lunar lander with a hybrid rocket engine using magnesium (Mg) and aluminum (Al) extracted from regolith via adapted electrolysis Springer. These metals are abundant in lunar soil, and their oxides can serve as solid fuels. The engine design also incorporates cryogenic tanks made from native lunar materials to handle extreme temperature swings. Simulations show this could enable efficient travel between lunar research stations, reducing reliance on Earth-based propellant.2. Silicon-Based Hybrid Propellant (SiLOX)
At NASA’s Kennedy Space Center, scientists have tested controlled combustion of nano- and porous silicon from regolith with liquid oxygen to create a hybrid propellant NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS). This “SiLOX” system produces heat and thrust in a controlled manner, with pre-treated silicon allowing precise burn rate control. The process could be integrated with oxygen extraction technologies from regolith, making it a potential in-situ energy source for lunar operations.3. Regolith-Thermoset Polymer Launch/Landing Pads
For safety, lunar launch and landing pads are being developed from regolith mixed with thermoset polymers NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS). These composites can withstand methane-oxygen rocket plume conditions and reduce ejecta damage. While some erosion occurs under extreme thermal tests, the pads effectively protect surface assets. The polymer can be mixed and extruded on-site using screw extruder technology, with up to 90% regolith content.4. 3D-Printed Structural and Shielding Components
NASA’s MMPACT project is using 3D printing with regolith and local binders (like water extracted from regolith) to build habitats, radiation shielding, and rocket pads NASA. Techniques such as Contour Crafting and selective separation sintering can produce large, monolithic structures or precise parts, reducing launch mass.Summary of Lunar Resource Uses in Rocket Systems
Fuels: Mg/Al oxides for hybrid engines Springer
Propellant: Nano-silicon + liquid oxygen (SiLOX) NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)
Structures: Regolith-thermoset polymer pads NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)
Construction: 3D-printed regolith-based components NASA
These approaches aim to reduce Earth supply chains and enable self-sustaining lunar infrastructure, with potential spin-offs for terrestrial applications.
Query: "Silicon-Based Hybrid Propellant (SiLOX)"
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Silicon-Based Hybrid Propellant (SiLOX)
SiLOX is a proposed hybrid rocket propellant using porous or nano-silicon as fuel and liquid oxygen (LOX) as oxidizer, designed for in-situ resource utilization (ISRU) on the Moon and other bodies.Concept and Development
NASA’s Kennedy Space Center (KSC) has explored controlled passivation of porous silicon to slow its normally explosive reaction with oxygen. By exposing the silicon surface to a controlled dose of gaseous oxygen, the team reduced the detonation rate enough to achieve a non-explosive, controlled burn NASA TechPort+1. This approach allows the silicon to be stored stably in vacuum (as on the Moon) without active cooling, unlike terrestrial silicon, which oxidizes in air NASA TechPort.Key Advantages
In-situ production: Silicon is abundant in lunar regolith; LOX can be extracted from the same regolith via technologies like carbothermal reduction (CaRD) or molten regolith electrolysis (MRE) NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).Storable in vacuum: No active cooling needed, enabling long-term storage on the Moon or in space NASA TechPort.
Hypergolic: Reacts spontaneously with LOX without ignition systems NASA TechPort.
Throttleable and shut-off capability: Unlike solid rockets, the burn can be stopped by cutting LOX flow, useful for multi-burn missions NASA TechPort.
Burn rate control: Pre-treatment (e.g., muffle furnace heating) can adjust burn rate for different mission needs — high thrust for launch or lower burn for efficiency NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Ubiquitous feedstock: Silicates are common in the solar system, so SiLOX could be produced on Mars, asteroids, or moons of Jupiter NASA TechPort.
Experimental Results
KSC’s proof-of-concept demonstrated:Controlled combustion of nano- and porous silicon with gaseous and liquid oxygen.
Effective burn rate and energy release control via surface passivation NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)+1.
Potential for integration into lunar surface operations and as a thermal/electrical energy storage medium NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Applications
Lunar Gateway refueling: Vehicles could receive Moon-derived SiLOX for deep-space missions, reducing launch mass NASA TechPort.Multi-burn missions: Shuttleable LOX flow allows staged burns.
Energy storage: Regenerative properties of porous silicon could store thermal or electrical energy NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Terrestrial adaptation: The technology could be adapted for Earth-based hybrid rocketry with modified oxidizer handling NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Challenges
Safety: Controlling the passivation process to avoid accidental detonation.Material handling: Managing porous/nano-silicon grains in LOX systems.
Integration: Adapting to existing hybrid rocket designs and safety protocols.
In summary, SiLOX is a promising hybrid propellant concept that leverages lunar and other extraterrestrial resources, offers throttleable, storable, and potentially regenerative propulsion, and could significantly reduce the logistical burden of space missions NASA TechPort+1.
I am extremely happy with the SiLOX concepts!
I am going to risk looking stupid by designing a propulsion device from this. I expect that it would most likely explode, but all rockets desire to explode, it take the rocket scientist to convince them not to. I do not qualify. But let's call it an energy device.
This is probably more of a bomb than a rocket, but if domesticated and tamed, perhaps it could change thinking, such as do we need a Mass Driver at all, or could we do this from Phobos and Deimos materials: 
Missing at the start are method to steer the device or circularize it's orbit.
The objective is to get mass into orbit of the Moon or even to an "L" location.
While the possibility of loading these bombs into a mass driver can be considered, the word bomb is a caution.
I have suggested a pile of thermite and extra fuels to be placed under the "Engine" to get it started. So, this would be a one time explosion, to hope to have an "Orion" effect to get things started.
It could not be shut off; it would burn until the LOX was depleted or until an explosive event.
The engine bell might be 3D printed from various materials including Silicon.
It is a try YODA! DO and DON'T DO depend on TRYING!
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#58 Yesterday 10:57:31
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
Thanks for the useful comments (th).
I have added Steering and Circularization to the idea.
I expect that a set of valves controlled by AI could survive in the engine bell, as long as cooled Oxygen may run through them.
This might cause more or less combustion on one side of the engine than the other, to produce steering.
When the Oxygen ran out though the valves may be cooked.
A second engine would the circularize/modify the orbit.
In the end you would have a chunk of metal junk, that a Metal-Plasma propulsion system could tow to a processing center in orbit or an "L" location.
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#59 Yesterday 20:25:30
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
I want to explore more practical means. If we can presume that the Moon can provide Oxygen, Silicon, and some metals, these are perhaps lower performing than are Metha-Lox or Hydro-Lox.
I wondered about this question: "How Much propellant does Starship need to reach a minimum Lunar Orbit?"
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Propellant Needed for Starship to Reach Minimum Lunar Orbit
For NASA’s Artemis program, the Starship Human Landing System (HLS) is designed to deliver crew from the Orion capsule to the lunar surface and back, with on‑orbit propellant refueling being essential for the return trip Wikipedia+1.Fuel Capacity and Usage
Full propellant capacity: ~1,200 tonnes of liquid methane (CH₄) and liquid oxygen (LOX) in the Starship upper stage hub.sivo.it.com.Minimum lunar orbit (MLO) is the lowest stable orbit around the Moon, roughly 100–150 km altitude. Reaching MLO requires a Trans‑Lunar Injection (TLI) burn from Earth orbit, followed by a Lunar Orbit Insertion (LOI) burn to circularize the orbit.
Typical Propellant Requirements
From Earth orbit to MLO:TLI burn: ~300–400 tonnes of propellant (methane + LOX) to escape Earth’s gravity and reach the Moon.
LOI burn: ~100–150 tonnes to insert into MLO.
Total for MLO: ~450–550 tonnes of propellant.
From MLO to lunar surface: ~100–150 tonnes (surface descent burn).
From lunar surface to MLO: ~150–200 tonnes (ascent burn).
From MLO back to Earth orbit: ~450–550 tonnes (return TLI burn).
Refueling Strategy
Because Starship cannot carry enough propellant for the round trip from Earth orbit, orbital refueling is used:Artemis 3 HLS will be launched empty or with minimal propellant, then refueled in LEO with ~10 tanker launches of propellant from depots Wikipedia.
Each tanker delivers ~100–150 tonnes of propellant to the depot, which is then transferred to the HLS.
This allows the HLS to carry the full ~1,200 tonnes of propellant for the entire mission SpaceX.
Summary Table
Mission Segment
Approx. Propellant NeededEarth orbit → MLO
450–550 tonnesMLO → lunar surface
100–150 tonnesLunar surface → MLO
150–200 tonnesMLO → Earth orbit
450–550 tonnesTotal for round trip
~1,150–1,400 tonnes (with depot refuel)In short: To reach and return from minimum lunar orbit, a Starship HLS needs about 1,150–1,400 tonnes of propellant in total, with the majority (~450–550 tonnes) used for the TLI/LOI burns and the rest for descent/ascent. On‑orbit refueling from depots makes this feasible without carrying all propellant at launch Wikipedia+2.
The proportion of LOX to Methane is 3.6/1 it seems.
Quote:
From MLO to lunar surface: ~100–150 tonnes (surface descent burn).
From lunar surface to MLO: ~150–200 tonnes (ascent burn).
*The problem with the (surface descent burn) is I do not know how much propellant is on board the ship when it lands.
*The problem with the (ascent burn) is I am not sure what cargo and extra propellant to return to Earth Orbit are on board the ship.
My poor math says that you need about 21 to 33 tone of Methane to Land. But I am presuming that that presumes that you need all the propellants to ascend to orbit and to then go to LEO.
But to lift more LOX and Silicon and Metals you would need more.
Where I am going with this is if you used Starship engines only for MLO moving up and down to and from the surface, all of your LOX for that could come from the Moon and you likely would have to bring your Methane from Earth, for both actions.
But if you had Lunar Propellants for the Starships travel from LEO to MLO, those would not have to include Methane.
You might burn Silicon and LOX and you might also use a more efficient process of Metal-Plasma propulsion.
This would perhaps not be suitable for humans, but An electric propulsion can be 10 to 30 times as efficient as chemical propulsions are.
The point is you could get a lot of tonnage to the Moon on the cheep perhaps.
Granted if you source the LOX and Silicon and Metals from the Moon, you consume quite a lot of propellants to get propellants from the Moon to LEO.
Lets see what Isaac Arthur thinks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZC1ElYVfJ0
Quote:
Nomadic Miners On The Moon
Isaac Arthur
Isaac Arthur
I will venture that if you could make hybrid boosters to connect onto a Starship, they could assist it to MLO.
OK, apparently it might be profitable to move LOX from the Moon to LEO, at least this opinion says so:
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Exporting Oxygen from the Moon to LEO
Yes — oxygen can be exported from the Moon to Low Earth Orbit (LEO), and doing so is a key part of long-term space sustainability plans.Why it’s possible
The Moon’s surface material, regolith, contains about 41–45% oxygen by weight, mostly bound in metal oxides like ilmenite and silicates biologyinsights.com. Technologies such as Molten Regolith Electrolysis (MRE) and hydrogen reduction can extract this oxygen as pure gas biologyinsights.com+1. Once produced, the oxygen can be stored in tanks and transported to LEO.Cost and efficiency advantages
Launching from the Moon to LEO is far cheaper than launching from Earth. Placing 1kg on the lunar surface requires about 7kg to LEO, most of which is fuel for the trip Lunar and Planetary Institute. If a lunar oxygen production plant supplies its own return fuel, the Earth launch mass drops to about 1.2kg per kg delivered to the Moon Lunar and Planetary Institute. This means lunar-derived oxygen can be less expensive than Earth-shipped propellant for LEO missions.Applications in LEO
Spacecraft propellant: Liquid oxygen (LOX) is a major oxidizer for rocket engines, enabling longer missions and in-space refueling heliosmatters.com+1.Life support: Oxygen can be used for crew breathing in lunar bases or space stations.
Cislunar operations: Excess oxygen can be sent to lunar orbit for missions to the Moon or beyond.
Challenges
Infrastructure cost: Building and operating a lunar production and export facility requires significant upfront investment Reddit.Transportation: Ships must carry their own propellant to decelerate into LEO and return to the Moon Reddit.
Technology maturity: While NASA and private companies have demonstrated oxygen extraction from lunar simulant NASA, large-scale, continuous production and export systems are still in development.
Outlook
With ongoing Artemis missions and private-sector investment, lunar oxygen export to LEO is a realistic near-term goal. It could become a core part of a sustainable space economy, reducing reliance on Earth for propellant and enabling more frequent and cost-effective deep-space missions
But I am trying to find efficiency in the process.
I don't like transporting LOX. Can you transport Iron Oxide and get easy Oxygen along the way. Presuming that you might also bring Silicon along with you. So, if you had some Hydrogen with you, easy Oxygen could be extracted from Iron Oxide, and the Oxygen then be burned with Silicon. You would split the water produced, and reuse the Hydrogen to reduce more Iron Oxide. But you would then have Iron which you might use as a propellant in a metal-Plasma propulsion.
So, I don't think I have the best magic yet but I am wondering if a Lunar Starship could have minimized Raptor engines, maybe even smaller engines for Metha-Lox, but also have other types of propulsions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Really my reason for all this blabbing is to get a feal for the utility of the Moon, relative to Demos/Phobos/Mars.
The Moon has gravity, that's bad, not maybe that's good. The point is Deimos and Phobos need less effort to lift materials off of, but it is rather handy to have some gravity as the Moon does, to do processes that are somewhat similar to what we do on Earth.
My point being that slow-mo methods that are efficient and suitable might make it possible to move propellants from the Moon Just using spaceships. Granted it would be nice to have some sort of mass driver.
China seems to be of the opinion that water is available in glass beads, in regolith away from the poles.
But it would be nice to have metal and silicon and LOX propellants from many rocky worlds. I hope the Moon can be included.
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#60 Today 07:41:14
- Void
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Re: AquaWorlds (Water Holding and Water Transporting Methods)
I got off into the Ozone in the last post.
Just for giggles I am going to query for "Silicon-Based Hybrid Propellant (SiLOX)", and see if I get an answer similar to my previous query a few posts ago.
Well Copilot was silent this time, but I did get this: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/20240000517
Quote:
Making Rocket Fuel from Moon Rocks: Silicon-Liquid Oxygen (SiLOX) as a Hybrid Propellant
I took the quotes off of the phrase and Copilot then spoke:
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Silicon-Based Hybrid Propellant (SiLOX)
SiLOX is a proposed hybrid rocket propellant using porous or nano-silicon as fuel and liquid oxygen (LOX) as oxidizer, designed for in-situ resource utilization (ISRU) on the Moon and other bodies.Concept and Development
NASA’s Kennedy Space Center (KSC) has explored controlled passivation of porous silicon to slow its normally explosive reaction with oxygen. By exposing the silicon surface to a controlled dose of gaseous oxygen, the team reduced the detonation rate enough to achieve a non-explosive, controlled burn NASA TechPort+1. This approach allows the silicon to be stored stably in vacuum (as on the Moon) without active cooling, unlike terrestrial silicon, which oxidizes in air NASA TechPort.Key Advantages
In-situ production: Silicon is abundant in lunar regolith; LOX can be extracted from the same regolith via technologies like carbothermal reduction (CaRD) or molten regolith electrolysis (MRE) NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).Storable in vacuum: No active cooling needed, enabling long-term storage on the Moon or in space NASA TechPort.
Hypergolic: Reacts spontaneously with LOX without ignition systems NASA TechPort.
Throttleable and shut-off capability: Unlike solid rockets, the burn can be stopped by cutting LOX flow, useful for multi-burn missions NASA TechPort.
Burn rate control: Pre-treatment (e.g., muffle furnace heating) can adjust burn rate for different mission needs — high thrust for launch or lower burn for efficiency NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Ubiquitous feedstock: Silicates are common in the solar system, so SiLOX could be produced on Mars, asteroids, or moons of Jupiter NASA TechPort.
Experimental Results
KSC’s proof-of-concept demonstrated:Controlled combustion of nano- and porous silicon with gaseous and liquid oxygen.
Effective burn rate and energy release control via surface passivation NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS)+1.
Potential for integration into lunar surface operations and as a thermal/electrical energy storage medium NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Applications
Lunar Gateway refueling: Vehicles could receive Moon-derived SiLOX for deep-space missions, reducing launch mass NASA TechPort.Multi-burn missions: Shuttleable LOX flow allows staged burns.
Energy storage: Regenerative properties of porous silicon could store thermal or electrical energy NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Terrestrial adaptation: The technology could be adapted for Earth-based hybrid rocketry with in-situ resource production NASA Technical Reports Server (NTRS).
Challenges
Safety: Controlling detonation rate is critical; uncontrolled burns could be hazardous.Material handling: Requires precise passivation and storage protocols.
Integration: Needs compatibility with existing hybrid rocket systems and ISRU infrastructure.
In summary, SiLOX is a promising hybrid propellant concept that leverages lunar and other extraterrestrial silicon resources with LOX, offering storable, throttleable, and potentially multi-purpose propulsion for future space missions NASA TechPort+1.
I think that until mass drivers or the equivalent of some other kind could be made operational, the use of SiLOX to supplement MethaLOX may be very valuable.
Suppose you made side boosters for Lunar Starship that were SiLOX. Then they could assist Starship to orbit but Starship could steer. This might offer a method to lift huge loads off of the Lunar surface with SiLOX as the main muscle and Starship as the guide.
And I see water, Iron Oxide, Carbon as companion substances for the SiLOX method
Both combustion processes and Metal>Plasma propulsion methods.
The Adapted Starships, with SiLOX assist side boosters, may travel up and down from the MLO at 100 km, and might be reached by travel platforms that navigate between LEO and MLO orbits
Having both a combustion process and a Metal>Plasma propulsion process may be a mix of safety and time saving and also efficiency.
You do not wan to loiter in the Van Allen Belts, but otherwise except for time savings you may want to opt for the efficiency of Metal>Plasma.
And this scheme may make sense for Earth/Moon<>Deimos/Phobos/Mars transfers.
Perhaps first a chemical burn with SiLOX and then a finishing propulsive method of Metal>Plasma to get to the target world.
If you can refill propellants from various worlds, you have true options.
For a quick chemical burn to pass the Van Allen Belts, you might want a tank of LOX.
But also, as I have said, you might pull Hydrogen from water and burn the Oxygen with Silicon and while doing that react the Hydrogen with Iron Oxide, recreating water, and providing Iron.
So, that might be a long chemical burn method which we do not currently use. But the value of that would be no Cryogenic Liquids handled.
SiLOX apparently can work with gas Oxygen or LOX.
So, these things might fit in with Roberts Large Ship ideas, and you could have specialized ships that address the surface of each world and do not need nearly as powerful of a heat shield.
Ending Pending
Carbon being a cousin to Silicon, you could have a continuous burn method with Carbon, where you extract Oxygen from Water to burn Carbon, and then use the Hydrogen and solar heat to extract Oxygen from Iron Oxide.
But producing CO2, it may also be possible to heat CO2 into a plasma to get propulsion.
Deimos/Phobos/Mars may provide Carbon.
Ending Pending
As I have said before, I think that a combination propulsive method may offer the best of worlds. A chemical burn that cuts time off of the trip, followed by a Metal>Plasma finishing method to enter orbit of a world without the use of a heat shield method.
Ending Pending
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