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#51 2026-06-11 07:13:50
- Void
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Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
I decided to ask a strange question of my phones search engine this morning, and got an answer that I liked.
Query: "If falcon 9 second stage would be refilled in orbit, how much delta v would it have?"
Well even my search engine on my computer had something to say that looks useful, instead of it telliing me I asked a stupid question. Quote:
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Delta‑V for a Refilled Falcon 9 Second Stage
If the Falcon 9 second stage were to be refilled in orbit (e.g., with propellant from a tanker or in‑orbit refueling system), the total ΔV budget would be the sum of the stage’s original ΔV and the ΔV from the added propellant.Current Falcon 9 Second Stage ΔV
For a typical Falcon 9 Block 1.2 (Full Thrust) mission to a low Earth orbit (LEO) with nominal payload, the second stage’s ΔV is about ~4,500–4,600m/s launchercalculator.com+1. This is the velocity change it can provide from its initial propellant load.Adding Refill Propellant
The Tsiolkovsky rocket equation shows that ΔV scales logarithmically with mass ratio:is the effective exhaust velocity (≈3,400m/s for Merlin‑1D in vacuum) and
m
initial
is the total mass after refill.If you add a significant amount of propellant (e.g., 10–20tonnes), the ΔV gain is not linear — it’s the logarithm of the mass ratio. For example:
Adding 10tonnes to a 17tonne stage could add ~100–150m/s ΔV.
Adding 20tonnes could add ~150–200m/s ΔV.
Larger refills (50–100tonnes) could add 300–500m/s or more, but practical limits apply due to structural, thermal, and mission constraints.
Total ΔV Example
If the original second stage ΔV is 4,500m/s and you add 20tonnes of propellant:Total ΔV ≈ 4,650–4,700m/s (small gain, but enough for some mission flexibility).
With 50tonnes added, Total ΔV ≈ 4,800–4,900m/s — still below the ~9.4km/s needed for ISS, but could enable higher orbits or more maneuvering.
Practical Considerations
Structural limits: The stage’s tanks and structure have a maximum propellant capacity.Thermal management: Refilling in orbit adds complexity for heat rejection.
Mission profile: Extra ΔV must be used efficiently; excess propellant in LEO is costly to return.
Propellant type: If using a different propellant (e.g., methane/LOX),
v
e
changes, affecting ΔV.Bottom line: A Falcon 9 second stage with a 20tonne refill might gain ~150m/s ΔV, bringing total ΔV to ~4,650m/s, while a 50tonne refill could push it to ~4,800–4,900m/s launchercalculator.com+1. The exact number depends on the refill mass and the stage’s initial mass ratio.
My phone said: "If the Falcon 9 second stage were refilled in orbit, it would have approximately 10 to 11 km/s of delta v. available with an empty payload fairing.
"
Now, I am wondering about water in orbit and Hydrogen electric thrusters.
Query: "Hydrogen electric space thrusters?"
Quote:
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Hydrogen-Based Electric Space Thrusters
Hydrogen-based electric thrusters are a class of spacecraft propulsion systems that use hydrogen as a propellant, but instead of burning it chemically, they electrify and accelerate it using electric or electromagnetic fields. This approach combines the high specific impulse of electric propulsion with the high energy density of hydrogen.How They Work
In electric propulsion, an electric or magnetic field accelerates charged particles (ions or plasma) to produce thrust. Hydrogen thrusters can be:Ion thrusters: Ionize hydrogen gas and accelerate the ions using electrostatic grids or electromagnetic fields Wikipedia.
Hall-effect thrusters (HETs): Use a magnetic field to confine electrons, which ionize hydrogen and accelerate the ions through a cross-field electric field www.urathrusters.com+1.
Pulsed plasma thrusters: Use short bursts of plasma to generate thrust, sometimes with hydrogen as the working gas Wikipedia.
These systems operate in the vacuum of space, where they can run for months or years on relatively small propellant masses, making them ideal for long-duration missions.
Advantages
High specific impulse: Much more propellant-efficient than chemical rockets, enabling large velocity changes with small propellant mass Wikipedia.High energy density: Hydrogen offers the highest mass-to-energy ratio of common propellants, allowing long mission durations.
Flexibility: Can be used for station-keeping, orbit transfer, and deep-space navigation.
Sustainability: In hybrid systems, hydrogen can be generated on-demand via electrolysis, reducing the need to carry large pre-filled tanks www.urathrusters.com.
Examples and Applications
URA Thrusters’ HYDRA system: A hybrid propulsion system that electrolyzes water to produce hydrogen and oxygen, feeding them into a bi-propellant Hall-effect thruster (HET) for electric propulsion. This allows both high-thrust and high-specific-impulse modes, with propellant generated from water, making it adaptable for missions requiring rapid trajectory changes www.urathrusters.com.NASA and ESA missions: While most use xenon, hydrogen-based electric thrusters are being explored for future missions where hydrogen’s energy density is advantageous.
Game simulations: In Space Engineers, hydrogen thrusters are modeled as high-thrust, versatile engines that work in both space and atmosphere, often paired with ion thrusters for hybrid performance spaceengineers.fandom.com.
Challenges
Low thrust: Electric thrusters produce small thrust, so they are unsuitable for launch from Earth’s surface Wikipedia.Power requirements: High specific impulse comes at the cost of needing significant electrical power.
Complexity: Hydrogen handling requires careful storage, pressurization, and safety measures.
Outlook
Hydrogen electric thrusters are a promising technology for future deep-space missions, satellite station-keeping, and in-space refueling. Advances in electrolysis-based propellant generation and high-power spacecraft systems will likely expand their role in sustainable, flexible space propulsion www.urathrusters.com+1.
So, I conclude that if we were to build a new ISS in orbit of Earth the proper thing to do would be to bring water to it, and to crack the water and store the Oxygen and use the Hydrogen to maintain orbit against atmospheric drag.
While it existed the water would reduce radiation exposure inside the station and Oxygen would be easier to store as LOX in low Earth orbit than Hydrogen.
So, periodically you would have a batch of LOX that you would use to refill for deeper space missions.
But I believe that RP-1 is more storable than Hydrogen or Methane. And it would also provide radiation protections.
>>>>>>
We may be beyond the practices of the ISS. But what if we could build something like that an host Training Data centers in orbit?
I have read that Inference can go to orbit but that radiation exposure will make Training Data Centers not practical in orbits. But if you shielding them with Water and RP-1, then could it become practical?
With water then you could crack a stream of Hydrogen and use it for thrust immediately and also cook up LOX to store.
Stored RP-1 would provide additional radiation protections.
Query: "Why can space data centers do Inference and not training compute?"
Qkuote:
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Why Space Data Centers Focus on Inference, Not Training
Space-based data centers are currently more suited to AI inference than to model training because of the energy, cooling, and infrastructure constraints of operating in orbit.1. Energy demands differ between training and inference
Training requires massive, sustained power to update model weights through backpropagation. Modern large language models (LLMs) can consume gigawatts of compute and tens of terawatt-hours annually Forbes.
Inference is far less power-hungry per request — it’s about running a fixed model to produce outputs (e.g., chatbot responses). Scaling inference is more efficient than scaling model size, and workloads can be distributed across many small nodes Forbes.
In space, where solar power is six times more intense than Earth’s best deserts www.moduledge.com, inference workloads can be sustained with smaller, more numerous satellites, each powered by compact solar arrays.
2. Cooling and thermal management
On Earth, cooling is a major cost driver, requiring large HVAC systems and water. In space, the cold of the vacuum can be used for radiative cooling, but there’s no air to carry heat away www.moduledge.com.
Training GPUs generate heat that must be dissipated continuously, which is harder in microgravity and with limited space. Inference GPUs can run at lower sustained loads, making them easier to cool in orbit.
3. Infrastructure and deployment constraints
Training requires rack-scale, high-density hardware with extensive cabling, power distribution, and cooling infrastructure — all of which are difficult to fit into a satellite.
Inference can be run on smaller, modular GPU units that can be integrated into a mesh of satellites, forming a distributed cloud IEEE Spectrum.
Early space data center prototypes (e.g., Starcloud’s 1kW satellite with 5 GPUs) have already run inference workloads like Gemini McKinsey & Company, but not large-scale training.
4. Economic and operational trade-offs
Launch costs are extremely high — Falcon 9 is ~$1,400/kg Forbes. Training workloads are so power-intensive that the cost of moving them to space may not justify the savings.
Inference workloads can be distributed across many small satellites, reducing per-node cost and enabling rapid scaling Forbes.
In space, “real estate” is effectively limitless, so inference can be deployed in a constellation without land-use or permitting issues Forbes.
In short:
Space data centers can run inference because it’s less power-hungry, easier to cool, and more modular than training. Training’s extreme energy and cooling needs, plus the complexity of terrestrial-scale infrastructure, make it impractical for current space-based systems. Inference is the “lighter” workload that can leverage space’s abundant solar power and distributed architecture without breaking the physics or economics of orbital computing Forbes+1.
So, I feel that with heat pump technology you could turn a water filled tank into a radiator. The water tank as well as RP-1 would provide radiation protection for compute of either type.
A solar (Or nuclear) power supply would have two primary tasks. 1) Support Compute. 2) Crack H20, and produce thrust with H2, and make and store LOX.
If you have stored LOX, then you can refill any ship that uses Oxygen. RP-1, Methane, Hydrogen.
I feel that the process of using Water and RP-1 in association with data centers may have sufficient value that the byproduct "LOX" in orbit will be worth the trouble.
Water is relatively benign as a Cargo, and RP-1 has a long history of being managed successfully in the aircraft industry. It is not as exotic as is Hydrogen or Methane as a fuel.
Instead of dumping used Falcon 9 2nd stages into the atmosphere, I suggest their reuse in orbits. It may even make sense to bring fresh 2nd stages to orbit in Starship.
Further, if you could create a new version, where the engines could be changed our easily you could overcome the problem of coking and use them many times.
Yes the Merlin is less efficient than the Raptors, but it is not as much of a fussy baby.
Ending Pending 
Last edited by Void (2026-06-11 07:50:01)
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#52 2026-06-11 09:04:19
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
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Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
I want to continue off of the just previous post I made today.
What if a logic could be established where you used a Merlin engine "X" number of times and then you melted it into propellants for a Neumann Driver or Magdrive propulsion system?
And then if you could plug a new Merlin engine on you do again.
So you would be reusing light weight Falcon 9 2nd stage tankage made primarily of a Aluminum/Lithium alloy?
You might daisy chain multiple instances of Falcon 9 2nd stages together to make a long ship.
The two ideas about how the Raptor is better than a Merilin are:
1) Raptors do not coke up as much.
2) Raptors are more efficient.
You can solve #1 by simply melting the engine into propellants for metal propellant drives.
You might be able to convert a Merlin to be full flow like a Raptor, since SpaceX already knows how to do that with Raptors.
So then you would have efficiency and relative reuse of the Falcon 9 2nd stages. (Just change out the engine periodically).
Materials like RP-1 and Water could be stockpiled in Lunar proximate situations such as "L1", "L4", "L5" and have a kitchen cool up LOX and then you would have a refilling station.
IF you used the Hydrogen from the water to move this setup it might be a very efficient way of providing for spacecraft interchanges.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-11 09:12:36)
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#53 2026-06-11 20:20:32
- Void
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Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
Here is an attempt to give some visual support for what I have been saying: 
The grey areas are relatively radiation safe, as is the space between the blue and green tanks.
Th Grey Interior might support data base chips, and a heat pump may push heat out of the grey areas into the blue and green respectively.
The white ring around the grey areas is a bladder method where a gas is used to push the fluids towards the outside of the tanks as they are filled or depleted.
So the blue and green tanks each are radiators and radiation shields and hold the fluids.
The LOX tank is filled with Oxygen as water from the blue tank is split into O2 and H2. The H2 is used for station keeping or even for propulsion.
The solar panel has four main loads:
1) Data Chips.
2) Water Splitting
3) Heat Pumps
4) Hydrogen Thrusters
Of course, other configurations are possible, this is just a first try where I hope to show the concept.
A Platform like this can cook up LOX and also provide shelter for Data Processing, and Store RP-1.
Periodically a ship might stop by and drop off more RP-1 and water, or pick up propellants.
I think this method may be economic in nature and so be of value.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-11 20:32:05)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#54 2026-06-12 12:46:29
- Void
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Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
Instead of more of my typical fodder, I will give you this which is not bad:
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE
Quote:
Utube, Better, Fastero, cheaper - The Vertically Integrata Beast - Will Make SpaceX a $10 TRILLION Company
21:19Better, Faster, cheaper - The Vertically Integrated Beast - Will Make SpaceX a $10 TRILLION Company
YouTube
BestInTESLA
340 views
My guess is that most of the projection is close to what will be.
I think that eventually there will be robot or even human facilities in orbits to service this array of Satellites.
Ending Pending
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And this "Official Preseantation": https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ORM=VAMGZC
Quote:
SpaceX IPO Reveals the Future SpaceX Is Building With Starship
YouTube
Scientia Plus
76 views
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-12 13:11:04)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#55 2026-06-13 13:12:10
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
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Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
I have another idea to develop having to do with using motions of machines through a cooling fluid to cool data centers.
Here is a Query: "Does the viscosity of a fluid decrease when it is heated?"
Quote:
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Yes — for most liquids, viscosity decreases when the fluid is heated.When a liquid is heated, its molecules gain more thermal energy, move faster, and are more easily able to overcome the intermolecular attractive forces that create internal friction. This makes it easier for layers of the liquid to slide past one another, reducing the resistance to flow Wikipedia+1.
Examples:
Cold honey or syrup flows slowly; warm honey pours more easily.
Cold motor oil is thick and hard to pump; hot oil flows more freely.
Water’s viscosity drops more than sixfold from 0°C to 100°C chem-casts.com.
Why this happens:
In liquids, viscosity is mainly due to cohesive forces between molecules. Heating weakens these forces by increasing molecular motion, lowering the overall internal resistance to flow scienceinsights.org.Important note:
This behavior is specific to liquids. In gases, the opposite occurs — heating increases viscosity because faster-moving molecules collide more often, increasing internal friction Wikipedia+1.So, if you are dealing with a liquid, heating it will generally make it thinner and easier to flow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperatu … _viscosity
Quote:
Viscosity depends strongly on temperature. In liquids it usually decreases with increasing temperature, whereas, in most gases, viscosity increases with increasing temperature. This article discusses several models of this dependence, ranging from rigorous first-principles calculations for monatomic gases, to empirical correlations for liquids.
Query:"Does the viscosity of water decrease with increased temperature?"
Quote:
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The viscosity of water decreases as temperature increases because higher temperatures provide water molecules with more kinetic energy, allowing them to overcome intermolecular hydrogen bonds and move more freely.
Molecular Explanation
Viscosity is a measure of a fluid's resistance to flow, which arises from the internal friction between molecules. In water, this friction is largely due to hydrogen bonding between molecules. At lower temperatures, water molecules move more slowly, and the hydrogen bonds form a stronger, more extensive network, creating higher resistance to flow and thus higher viscosity
chem-casts.com
chem-casts.com
+2
.
As the temperature rises, the molecules gain kinetic energy, which increases their motion. This added energy allows the molecules to partially overcome the attractive hydrogen-bonding forces, reducing internal friction. Consequently, the water molecules can slide past each other more easily, and the viscosity decreases
chem-casts.com
chem-casts.com
+2
. For example, water's dynamic viscosity drops from approximately 1.79 cP at 0°C to 0.28 cP at 100°C
chem-casts.com
chem-casts.com
.Temperature Dependence
The decrease in viscosity with temperature is not linear but exponential, meaning the rate of decrease is faster at lower temperatures and slows at higher temperatures. This behavior is typical for liquids, where intermolecular forces dominate the viscous resistance
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.Practical Implications
Lower viscosity at higher temperatures explains why hot water flows more easily than cold water and why heating liquids like syrup or oil makes them pour more readily. In engineering, this property affects fluid flow calculations, heat transfer, and pump design, as the Reynolds number and flow regime depend on viscosity
chem-casts.com
chem-casts.com
+1
.
In summary, the reduction in water viscosity with increasing temperature is a direct consequence of enhanced molecular motion overcoming intermolecular attractions, primarily hydrogen bonds, allowing the liquid to flow more freely.
So, if I understand the above correctly you could lubricate ships bottoms with heat from a data center. And also reject heat into the water.
*I will also add that if you heat water on the bottom of ships, you might raise nutrients closer to the sunlight. So, possibly capture CO2 into the water as a side effect.
So, if it is possible for data centers to be cooled by the movement of ships in water, and to also lubricate the travel of the ships, then I think America should take an interest in that. To get some control of that.
Ships on the sea with data centers could be in communication with Starlink.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-13 13:27:10)
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#56 2026-06-13 13:50:58
- Void
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Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
Thank You for your attention and comments (th): https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 91#p239791
Soke cooling could come from air in a cargo hold, provided that cargo would not be harmed.
America exports lots of petroleum liquids.
Only some will be suitable. Gasoline, for instance, (Maybe).
Crude Oile? Well, that might be troublesome.
But while the process of heating the hull might reduce fiction, the main product would be tokens from AI delivered to Starlink.
It may be that existing ships will be hard to retrofit, but perhaps a new type of ship could be created to be more compatible.
Today's problems with terrestrial data centers is lack of energy, and cooling with fresh water. These needs then compete with consumer needs for the same.
Let's look at liquid Natural gas and Liquid Hydrogen. IF you could use their cold to cool a data center and then burn the gas, you might have something. In that case you would not be using the oceans cold, but stored cold.
You perhaps de need to consume part of the Liquid Natural Gas or Liquid Hydrogen. By extracting the boiloff, you get a cold gas fuel that you might cool a data center with.
But of course you want to be careful not to mix a fuel, Air, and electricity in a naughty way. Doing it correctly could provide benefits, but doing wrong will lead to sorrow.
It depends on the value of the takens that are computerd and delivered to customers if any of these processes are worth it.
>>>>>
Presuming that someone had a energy source suitable you might even have a Liquid Air Ship. If You could liquify air and then expand it with data center heat, then you could propel it.
Either you have a hydrocarbon you burn to supply electricity for the data base and then cool the data base with liquid air, if you are in a cold sea, Or if you are in a warm sea, you might let the sea warm the Liquid air, generate electric power by a turbine and then let the air output cool your data center.
A point is wind power could provide liquid air to store on a ship. Then a ship might jump into the gulf stream. You have cold North Sea, Wind power and the Gulf Stream.
I Know that I am jumping between several things, but these are resources which are perhaps not being used to their best potentials.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-13 14:08:36)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#57 2026-06-14 08:37:18
- Void
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Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
Today, I am looking at the 5 Ocean Gyres and the perimeter of Antarctica, to put waver powered robots into.
Quote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_gyre
Image Quote: 
Quote:
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The five major ocean gyres are the North Atlantic, South Atlantic, North Pacific, South Pacific, and Indian Ocean gyres, each forming a large, circular system of surface currents driven by wind and Earth's rotation.
Overview of Ocean Gyres
A gyre is a large system of rotating ocean currents formed by global wind patterns, the Coriolis effect, and the positioning of continents. These currents circulate in a roughly circular pattern, with clockwise rotation in the Northern Hemisphere and counterclockwise in the Southern Hemisphere due to the Coriolis force. Gyres play a crucial role in regulating ocean temperature, salinity, and nutrient distribution, and they are central to the global ocean conveyor belt that circulates water around the planet
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+2
.The Five Major Subtropical Gyres
North Atlantic Gyre
Located in the northern Atlantic Ocean, it is bounded by the North Equatorial Current to the south, the Gulf Stream to the west, the North Atlantic Current to the north, and the Canary Current to the east. Its center is the Sargasso Sea, known for dense accumulations of Sargassum seaweed
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.
South Atlantic Gyre
Found in the southern Atlantic Ocean, it circulates counterclockwise. Its currents include the Brazil Current (western boundary), the South Equatorial Current (north), the Benguela Current (eastern boundary), and the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (south),
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.
North Pacific Gyre
The largest of the gyres, located in the northern Pacific Ocean. It rotates clockwise and includes the Kuroshio Current (west), North Equatorial Current (south), California Current (east), and North Pacific Current (north). It is also home to the Great Pacific Garbage Patch, where plastic debris accumulates
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.
South Pacific Gyre
Situated in the southern Pacific Ocean, it rotates counterclockwise. Its boundaries are the South Equatorial Current (north), the East Australian Current (west), the Peru Current (east), and the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (south). Its center is considered the oceanic pole of inaccessibility, the point farthest from any land
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.
Indian Ocean Gyre
Located in the Indian Ocean, it rotates counterclockwise in the southern hemisphere. It is influenced by monsoon winds and consists of the South Equatorial Current (north), the Agulhas Current (west), the West Australian Current (east), and the Antarctic Circumpolar Current (south),
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
+1
.
Ecological and Environmental Significance
Subtropical gyres are relatively stable, low-nutrient regions in the ocean, but they are also major accumulation zones for plastic pollution. The circular motion traps floating debris, creating large garbage patches in the North Pacific, North Atlantic, and other gyres. Gyres also influence climate by transporting heat from the equator toward the poles and play a key role in marine ecosystems by affecting nutrient upwelling and the distribution of marine life
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
+1
.
In addition to these five major gyres, smaller gyres exist in other oceans and seas, such as the Beaufort Gyre in the Arctic Ocean, which contains relatively fresh water and can influence global ocean circulation when it releases water into the North Atlantic
American Oceans
American Oceans
.
The question of the morning was "Are there any waves in the Atlantic Gyre?"
The answer on my phone was better, I htink but this is not too bad:
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Waves in the North Atlantic Gyre
Yes — the North Atlantic Gyre is a large, circular system of ocean currents, but it is not a single wave. Instead, it is a system of currents that can generate and interact with waves, and it can also trap and concentrate wave-related phenomena such as floating debris.Waves vs. currents
Ocean waves are vertical oscillations of water caused by wind, gravity, and other forces, moving in the direction of the wind BrainKart. The gyre itself is a horizontal circulation of seawater, driven by wind, the Coriolis effect, and density differences biologyinsights.com. While the gyre’s currents can create surface waves, the term “waves” in this context often refers to the surface features or eddies within the gyre, not the large-scale current loops.Wave-like features in the gyre
Eddies and sub-gyres: The gyre contains smaller, rotating eddies that can appear like “waves” in the current field Wikipedia.
Sargasso Sea: At the gyre’s center, calm, clear waters and dense Sargassum seaweed mats create a visually “still” surface, but wind and wave action still occur locally Wikipedia+1.
Garbage patch: The gyre’s circulation traps floating debris, forming a “plastic island” that can look like a wave-like accumulation of material WorldAtlas.
Summary
The North Atlantic Gyre does not have a single giant wave, but it is a dynamic system where waves (surface oscillations) and currents (horizontal flows) coexist. The gyre’s structure can produce and concentrate wave-like features such as eddies, calm patches, and floating debris accumulations.
From my phone my impression is that wave action is best on the perimeter of the "Bowl" of the Gyre.
So, if we could put robots into the Edges of the Gyres, and add Compute to them, and if they could communicate well enough with Starlin, they could become a useful resource.
These devices may be able to navigate themselves using wave power. Query: "Boats that are powered by waves?"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suntory_Mermaid_II
Quote:
World record
On March 16, 2008, then 69-year-old Japanese sailor and environmentalist Kenichi Horie left the Hawaii Yacht Club, Honolulu, in Suntory Mermaid II, bound for Japan. He arrived on July 4, 2008 in the Kii Channel offshore of Hinomisaki cape, Wakayama, without incident. Horie had made the world's longest solo voyage in a wave-powered boat, using green technology.[2][3]
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Boats Powered by Wave Energy
Wave-powered boats use the motion of ocean swells or waves to generate propulsion or auxiliary power, offering a renewable alternative to traditional engines.Notable real-world example
Suntory Mermaid II – The only known fully wave-propelled boat in operation. It uses passive fins mounted at the bow, combined with springs, to capture wave energy and convert it into forward motion Wikipedia.
Concepts and designs
E/S Orcelle – A conceptual large ferry design that uses wave energy as a minor component, alongside hydrogen fuel production from wind and solar Wikipedia.
Oeko-Trimaran – A multi-hull design inspired by Pelamis wave power plants, using wave energy to produce hydrogen fuel Wikipedia.
Foil-based propulsion – Inspired by how fish or whales move, these systems use fins or flaps that move up and down with wave motion to push the boat forward Bluebird Energy Systems.
Wiggle Drive – A concept by Kjell Dahlberg using a rolling motion to drive an oscillating flipper under the stern, similar to a dolphin’s tail METSTRADE.
Whale’s Tail – A Norwegian University of Science and Technology project testing fins that harness wave motion, reducing drag and fuel use METSTRADE.
Auxiliary wave propulsion systems
Modern wave energy converters can be retrofitted to existing vessels or integrated into new builds. These devices—often buoy-like appendages—convert wave motion into rotational or hydraulic energy, which can power onboard systems, lighting, or an auxiliary drive novielliyachts.com. Benefits include reduced fuel consumption, lower emissions, and extended battery range for electric/hybrid boats novielliyachts.com.Challenges
Wave energy is highly variable and not yet scalable to power large ships at practical speeds Bluebird Energy Systems.
Efficiency depends on wave height and frequency, limiting reliability in calm seas METSTRADE.
Current systems are often used as supplements rather than sole propulsion sources.
Future potential
Research and development continue, with interest from green-technology investors and maritime operators aiming for carbon-neutral solutions. AI-driven analytics and advanced hull designs (e.g., Novelli Boats’ 5083 aluminum hulls) are being explored to improve wave energy capture and integration novielliyachts.com.In short, while fully wave-powered boats like the Suntory Mermaid II exist, most modern applications focus on wave energy as an auxiliary or hybrid propulsion source, blending with other renewable or conventional systems for practical, sustainable marine transport.
I think it is possible that this device might be made to be free floating, if it could use relative inertia to generate electricity: https://medium.com/@curiosityai/corpowe … 06e296bc33 Image Quote: 
The robot might be assisted at times by a bigger robot, if it may call for help.
Of course the process would have to be made compatible with shipping.
Here is a much larger goal: Quote:
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Antarctic Currents — The Antarctic Circumpolar Current
The Antarctic Circumpolar Current (ACC) is the largest and most powerful ocean current in the world, flowing clockwise around Antarctica (from west to east as seen from the South Pole) and linking the Atlantic, Pacific, and Indian Oceans Wikipedia+1. It is also known as the West Wind Drift, named for the strong westerly winds that drive it Wikipedia.Scale and Strength
Mean transport: ~134–137 million cubic meters per second (134–137 Sv), more than 100 times the combined flow of all Earth’s rivers SciTechDaily.Depth: Extends from the surface to over 4,000 meters Dive & Discover.
Width: Can exceed 120 miles (200 km) Dive & Discover.
Speed: Surface speeds range from ~0.2 knots (10 cm/s) to 2 knots (100 cm/s) Dive & Discover.
Formation and Climate Role
The ACC began forming about 34 million years ago during the Oligocene transition to a cooler “icehouse” climate. Wider ocean passages between Antarctica, Australia, and South America allowed the current to develop, isolating Antarctica’s waters and enabling the growth of its ice sheet SciTechDaily. Today, it acts as a barrier between the Southern Ocean and the rest of the world’s oceans, regulating heat and salt exchange Dive & Discover.Structure and Branches
Flows through the Drake Passage between South America and the Antarctic Peninsula.Splits into a shallow warm branch (Falkland Current) and a deeper branch eastward Wikipedia.
Creates the Ross and Weddell Gyres Wikipedia.
Drives the Antarctic Convergence, where cold Antarctic waters meet warmer subantarctic waters, producing nutrient-rich upwelling zones Wikipedia.
Ecological Importance
The ACC’s nutrient-rich waters support phytoplankton blooms, which sustain krill, fish, whales, seals, penguins, and albatrosses Wikipedia. It also transports deep, cold, and salty water formed on the Antarctic continental shelf (e.g., in the Weddell and Ross Seas) into the global deep ocean, fueling the thermohaline circulation Dive & Discover.Human Impact and Change
The ACC is vital for global climate regulation. Recent research warns of slowing and abrupt changes in Antarctic currents due to rapid sea ice loss, ice shelf melt, and warming waters The Conversation. These changes could amplify climate effects worldwide, from sea level rise to altered weather patterns The Conversation.In summary: The Antarctic Circumpolar Current is a dominant, wind-driven, deep-reaching current that shapes Antarctica’s climate, ecosystems, and global ocean circulation. Its stability is critical to Earth’s climate system, and recent signs of change are of major concern for the future.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic … ar_Current
Query: "Roaring forties?"
Quote:
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The Roaring Forties are powerful westerly winds found between 40° and 50° south latitude, known for their high speeds—averaging around 10m/s—and their historic importance in fast sailing routes.
What the Roaring Forties Are
Strong, persistent westerly winds in the Southern Hemisphere between 40°S and 50°S.
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
Caused by atmospheric circulation (Hadley and Ferrel cells), Earth’s rotation, and minimal landmass to slow winds.
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
Average wind speeds: ~10m/s (22mph), with gusts exceeding 25m/s (56mph).
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
Why They’re So Strong
Vast stretches of uninterrupted ocean allow winds to accelerate.
Much stronger than their Northern Hemisphere counterparts due to fewer land barriers.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Historical and Modern Importance
Crucial for fast sailing during the Age of Sail, especially on the Brouwer and Clipper routes.
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
Still used by modern round‑the‑world yacht races.
Influence weather, wave patterns, and coastal erosion in regions like New Zealand.
Wikipedia
Wikipedia
Related Wind Belts
Furious Fifties (50°–60°S): even stronger winds.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Screaming Sixties (60°S+): strongest of all.
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration
Other Uses of the Term “Roaring Forties”
The phrase also appears in unrelated cultural contexts:Comedy album by Ed Byrne (2018).
edbyrne.com
edbyrne.com
Irish swing/jazz band named The Roaring Forties.
theroaringforties.com
theroaringforties.com
Compilation album The Roaring Forty (1983–2023) by Billy Bragg.
YouTube
YouTube
The Roaring Forties remain one of the most significant and powerful wind systems shaping Southern Hemisphere weather and maritime history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Forties
https://favpng.com/png_view/wave-line-u … g/XrT5jdA8 Image Quote: 
So, my logic in presenting all of this is that if we are going to be exposed to the dangers of robots and AI anyway, we might as well play for a very vigorous economic outcome. If AI and Robots do not kill us, then we may also escape the grasp of the globalists.
so the larger the economic explosion the better.
In my opinion the path that Globalism leads to is excessive "Breeding of parasitic Coocoo males", and excessive empowerment of disaster empowered females.
A thing worth avoiding.
Ending Pending
If you want to be impressed by the survival of the "Fittest Genes", then you can admire Cacaroaches.
A high trust society needs to suppress "Coocoo Males", and "Disaster Empowered Females".
A high trust society can engage in higher principal's, and be industrious and promote technology.
Otherwise the Lust of two bad actors I mention will lead back to the stone age.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-14 09:20:59)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#58 2026-06-15 09:44:28
- Void
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- Posts: 9,609
Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
In case people might think that I am trying to abort the idea of data centers in space, I can say, no. I just understand that Inference data processing will work better in space than will training data processing.
I also view the situation as one where a door is going to be opened, if I like it or not, and behind that door will be things that may kill me or things that may benefit me. If it is 10 Tigers, then I will be eaten once. If if is a benefit, then I may get as much benefit as what is behind the door. Since I cannot control the opening of the door and do not know If it is Tigers or benefits, I might as well see to multiply the amount of what is behind the door.
If it is one Tiger or one benefit, then i may be benefited or eaten one time. If it is 10,000 Tigers or 10,000 benefits, then I may still be eaten once or maybe receive some of the 10,000 benefits.
I am elder and a sort of Tager is going to find me anyway withing perhaps 10-20 years, I might as well entertainment myself and take the risk. Even if it is the Tigers, this may keep me from ending my days drooling and peeing myself all the time.
I have moderate but sufficient means of existence and most likely cannot endure much stress. And I am not business orented.
So, I will offer a seed of and idea and perhaps younger and more suitable minds may do something with it. I can be entertained, and perhaps some other people can do something good.
ANOTEHR METHOD WITH WIND:
OK, this is shown as Horizontal, but could alternately be done vertical: 
I might expect that some people don't want to put processors into their windmill blades. Well, I am not expecting top performance as per collecting power from wind. The blades are also radiators, and the cooling fluid is air.
Obviously this might be best done in a suitable climate.
Where I say Excitation Coils, I intend a Stator primary coil that will stimulate a secondary Armature coil on the drive shaft as its partner.
An electrical sub-system on the assembly of Blades and Drive Shaft. Batteries might be included on the drive shaft, but you might need to use the Carbon Sleeve motor method of Tesla to overcome centrifugal forces.
Another option is to have a generator where the armature would stimulate a stator secondary to provided electric power external to the blades and Drive Shaft Assembly.
If the wind does not blow at times a motor is provided so that the blades can spin and be cooled by the passage of air.
If you have a suitable blade structure and a source of suitable water, you may wet the blades and do evaporative cooling.
If a source of fuel for the ice engine is available then you might use it. Things like Stranded Natural Gas, or Natural Hydrogen, or just imported fuel.
Electric motors may be supplied from batteries, or a MG Set or a liquid fuel.
A claim: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/e … r-AA25EwEX Quote:
The Cool Down
216.3K Followers
Earth may hold 170,000 years of natural hydrogen — and it could be produced for under $1 a kilo
Story by Vivian Tran • 9h •
2 min read
So, Hydrogen and some Natural Gas are hard to get to Market, so perhaps it would be best to consume them in such a machine as I have shown.
Some Shale Oil well flair off Natural Gas. Quite a waste. Perhaps this machine could use it.
So, any thoughts from the members?
Ending Pending
Of course, Starlink could communicate with these even if they are on some remote island in a cold sea.
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And this is quiet nice as per a wind atlas: https://globalwindatlas.info/en/
Very few birds that fly in Antarctica, don't you think?
Alaska has potential and of course the North Sea.
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Last edited by Void (2026-06-15 11:00:48)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#59 2026-06-16 09:17:25
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,609
Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
Where previously I have mentioned horizontal and vertical windmills, for some locations and purposes, I suggest a diagonal windmill, and in the installation of them partner windmills.
This is a 2D drawing of three diagonal windmills, each on a tripod frame: 
The features on this drawing described in the previous post could be included to each of them:
The diagonal windmills will not be able to turn in the wind, but if they are pointed to different directions, they can collectively harness the wind. The major objective of the windmills is to cool data chips fixed to their vanes, and to collect stuffiest power to be able to rotate the drive shafts.
So, some may donate electricity to others so that they may all turn and cool the chips.
I feel that a tripod will be the most sturdy, and serviceable by humans and robots.
As we have trouble with Europeans at this time, I offer Kerguelen Island as an example. Maybe this will annoy the French, or maybe they will understand that we intend inclusion. It is hard to read their psychology, except that they often want to make trouble.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerguelen_Islands
Of course, I am considering that these islands would continue to be a part of Frances powers.
Wind powered Data Centers, (Maybe Some Nuclear), would relieve the contest between resources humans want to use and the need/desire for Data Centers.
A French effort in these islands would be relatively uncontested, I expect. They might use Starlink or its similar networks to transfer data.
The French do have a history of Republic thinking, unlike some of the European Elites. The Europeans are all into wind power, so it seems logical to me that they might accept proposals like this.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=I+checked … pc=EDGEXST
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Wind Power in Antarctica
Wind energy is already being used in Antarctica to power research stations, thanks to the continent’s katabatic winds — strong, cold winds that blow from the interior toward the coast — which make some locations ideal for wind generation Australian Antarctic Program.Notable Wind Power Projects
Ross Island Wind Farm (Crater Hill)Location: Ross Island, Antarctica
Operational since: 2009
Capacity: Three Enercon E‑33 turbines (3 MW total)
Users: New Zealand’s Scott Base and the U.S. McMurdo Station
Impact: Reduced diesel use by ~463,000 liters annually and cut CO₂ emissions by 1,242 tonnes Advanced Power Alliance
Upgrades: Planned replacement with three DW54X‑1 MW turbines (40 m hub height) and a new battery storage system to supply over 90% of Scott Base’s annual electricity demand Advanced Power Alliance
Mawson Station (Australia)
Installed: 2003 (two 300 kW turbines)
Current: One operational 300 kW Enercon variable‑speed turbine
Function: Powers and heats the station, with a computer‑driven system managing wind and diesel generator output for optimal supply Australian Antarctic Program
Challenges: Freezing temperatures, icing, and strong gusts required special foundation pouring and maintenance training Australian Antarctic Program
Princess Elizabeth Research Station (Australia)
Installed: 2007
Turbines: Nine SD6 models
Status: Still operating greenbusinessbarbados.com
Wind Energy Potential
Scientific assessments using ERA5 reanalysis data show Taishan Station has the best wind energy potential in Antarctica, with an average wind power density of ~800 W/m², stable northeast‑facing winds, and high effective wind speed occurrence MDPI. Other stations like Great Wall, Zhongshan, and Kunlun also have strong resources.Challenges and Adaptations
Operating wind turbines in Antarctica requires:Cold‑resistant design for temperatures as low as –40°C
Specialized foundations to withstand freezing conditions
Maintenance training for high‑altitude work and icing prevention
Integration with diesel generators for backup and load balancing Australian Antarctic Program+1
Outlook
Wind power is a proven renewable solution for Antarctic research stations, reducing diesel dependence and lowering emissions. Ongoing upgrades, such as larger turbines and battery storage, aim to make wind energy the dominant source for some stations Advanced Power Alliance. Combined with solar and battery systems, wind can form a reliable, low‑impact energy mix for polar science operations.
It is mostly the coastal areas of Antarctica that are sensitive for wildlife concerns.
To put it politely, I think that productive societies should be allowed to tell unproductive societies the story of the "Little Red Hen".
Generally, we should avoid providing extra breeding opportunities to "Coocoo Boys" and avoid the feminine instinct to see conflict as an adventure, which will kill many people but likely spare them. I think these are two primitive motivations that keep pulling the human race back to the stone age periodically.
While the Southern Hemisphere is of great interest of course the Northern Polar proximate areas also are of interest. The North Sea, the conjunction of North America, Russia, and Japan.
For America, Alaska and some of our colder coasts.
But I still deeply support orbital database construction.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-06-16 09:50:24)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
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#60 2026-06-22 19:48:18
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,609
Re: Data Centers (Including Off World)
I hope I am not crowding other members out, but this video is a good one.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … 310fa605b2 Quote:
Elon Built Something Wall Street Can't Price
YouTube
Farzad
4.2K views
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Last edited by Void (2026-06-22 19:51:43)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Online
Like button can go here