New Mars Forums
You are not logged in.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Announcement
#26 Yesterday 13:12:50
- kbd512
- Administrator
- Registered: 2015-01-02
- Posts: 8,433
Re: Greenland
GW,
Fact -- Biden maintained sanctions upon Russia. Fact -- Trump did not.
The problem isn't with what you think you know, it's with what you think you know that just isn't so. Start going to actual US government websites and news outlets that deliver actual news instead of leftist talking points and propaganda.
According to its registration data, the ship also has been known as the Gallileo, owned and managed by a company in Russia. In addition, a tanker with the same registration number previously sailed under the name Pegas and was sanctioned by the U.S. Treasury Department for moving cargoes of illicit Russian oil.
From 2025:
Trump’s Sanctions on Russia Are Serious—Enforcement Will Decide Whether They Work
From 2019:
On the record: The U.S. administration’s actions on Russia
The Trump administration’s policy actions often seemed at odds with the President’s rhetoric. To set the record on policy actions, rather than rhetoric, Alina Polyakova and Filippos Letsas tracked the administration’s concrete actions on Russia from 2017 to 2019.
52 separate actions against Russia during his first term in office, which was before the Russians decided to invade Ukraine while President Biden's underlings were in office.
You told me to ignore what they say and watch what they do. Well, this is what President Trump's administration is actually doing- taking direct kinetic action against Russian energy exports to bring their economy to a screeching halt. Sanctions haven't done as much as magical thinkers want them to because Russia is no longer trading with countries that care about enforcing our sanctions. However, President Trump has applied even more sanctions against Russia, as-if direct kinetic action against them wasn't sufficient to inform Putin about how his administration feels about Putin starting a war against Ukraine.
You are uninformed, misinformed, or deliberately lying. Which is it?
Offline
Like button can go here
#27 Yesterday 13:36:13
- kbd512
- Administrator
- Registered: 2015-01-02
- Posts: 8,433
Re: Greenland
GW,
You know what part is craziest to me?
You'd would rather believe liars who are paid to brainwash incurious people into swallowing their political ideology, because it agrees with your internal monologue about President Trump, than to accept the nature of objective reality. Reality is about as far from their fictional "alternate reality" as it could possibly be. You can still harbor irrational hatred towards President Trump without ever imbibing in the radical left's make-believe hate-fueled alternate reality about him. Hate, hate, hate, and hate some more, so long as you realize most of your supposed "facts" are pure fictitious leftist brain vomit fed into your head by people who are even more irrational and equally filled with hate, who will say and do absolutely anything to further their agenda.
Offline
Like button can go here
#28 Yesterday 16:50:43
- GW Johnson
- Member
- From: McGregor, Texas USA
- Registered: 2011-12-04
- Posts: 6,122
- Website
Re: Greenland
Kbd512:
Don't attribute things to me that I did not say. In post 26, only the first quote is something I actually said. The implication, deserved or not, is that I said the other 2. And I did not.
In post 25, the plot is a government office-supplied piece of data. It says Trump amped-up aid, with a lot more to come. If you believe the chart in the first place. Which I do not. That chart does NOT match what Ukraine received. Which since a year ago, is mostly only from the Europeans.
As for current government office-supplied information, I believe NOTHING anymore, precisely because of the exposed lies of Trump appointees heading the various agencies. RFK Jr is only 1 example who is totally notorious now. Noem is another. Trump himself is another. There are many more. Liars all. As are all politicians, left or right wing.
You can tell when they lie: their lips are moving! Look ONLY at what they really do (and not what some internet news source tells you they do). Events cannot be hidden as easily as comments can be lies! Talk is cheap. Hiding actions is not.
How are their lies different from the lies of Stalin, Mussolini, and Hitler? Or any of their minions? Not in any discernable way! Which is a part of why I am alarmed for American democracy, and why I oppose them the way that I do. Only 1 part, though. Only one out of my 10 hallmarks of dictatorships. At least 7 of which I see as fully in place now.
I do not know what Trump might have put back in place regarding sanctions against Russia after his little disillusionment episode with Putin, not responding to his "peace effort". Which episode seems to have passed quickly, and Trump reverted to form, as near as I have observed. Before that episode, Trump did remove all the sanctions Biden had in place. I have seen NONE put back in place that I can verify, excepting perhaps denying Venezuelan oil to Russia.
However, the Venezuelan tankers are small change compared to what Trump removed in the way of sanctions. Your post ignores that little fact.
As I said, BELIEVE NO WORDS of anybody, on either side! Look only at what people in positions of authority actually do!
And THAT is what I do! As I have repeatedly told you! And I have repeatedly recommended that you should do, too!
"Flaming" me for believing other than you, will NOT EVER change my mind! All it can do is induce me not to bother looking at this thread anymore. Is THAT what you really want?
GW
Last edited by GW Johnson (Yesterday 17:21:30)
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
Offline
Like button can go here
#29 Yesterday 20:23:01
- kbd512
- Administrator
- Registered: 2015-01-02
- Posts: 8,433
Re: Greenland
GW,
In post 25, the plot is a government office-supplied piece of data. It says Trump amped-up aid, with a lot more to come. If you believe the chart in the first place. Which I do not. That chart does NOT match what Ukraine received.
...
As for current government office-supplied information, I believe NOTHING anymore, precisely because of the exposed lies of Trump appointees heading the various agencies.
If the data doesn't match your beliefs about it, then the data is wrong. Classic. Alright, then, live in your unreality.
No drop in military aid to Kyiv since US policy shift, NATO official says
...
Asked if there had been a drop in military supplies since Trump stopped donations, Major General Maik Keller, deputy commander of NATO's Security Assistance and Training for Ukraine (NSATU), said: "No, nothing.""There was no pause... it was just continuing and it's not that the U.S. exactly waits until it is paid for. As soon as one (PURL) package is announced, the flow of material is starting," he told Reuters.
"We found a lot of European nations actually contributing to the funding."
Under Biden, the U.S. had been Kyiv's single largest military donor. NATO's secretary general said this month allies and partners had committed over $4 billion so far under the new scheme.
...
Here General Keller is saying it live:
DWS News - NATO Supplies 220,000 Tons of Weapons to Ukraine in 2025, Major Gen Keller Confirms | AH1N
Major General Maik Keller, NSATU Deputy Commander
Maik Franz Josef Keller (* 15. März 1972) ist ein Generalmajor des Heeres der Bundeswehr und Deputy Commander Nato Security Assistance and Training for Ukraine.
The American government is lying, all the defense think tanks that monitor government spending are lying, Reuters is lying, and now apparently NATO Generals are also lying to support an American President many of them are at-odds with.
Do you hear yourself?
There's also a much simpler alternative explanation:
You have been lying to yourself because your beliefs don't match objective reality, so any time there's a contest between the two, your beliefs about reality are selected over what is plainly observable to people who do not suffer from TDS.
As I said, BELIEVE NO WORDS of anybody, on either side! Look only at what people in positions of authority actually do!
Ah, yes, nobody is ever trustworthy, at all or ever, whenever your ideology is involved. Does that include you?
I am looking at what they actually do. We, as-in "The United States of America", are sending weapons to Ukraine, they are receiving those weapons, and they are using those weapons against Russia. The only difference now is that the Europeans are funding those weapons instead of American tax payers "donating them", because the Europeans are dead set on continuing the war in Ukraine indefinitely, despite the fact that it's now a stalemate and has been since before President Trump took office.
"Flaming" me for believing other than you, will NOT EVER change my mind! All it can do is induce me not to bother looking at this thread anymore. Is THAT what you really want?
Nobody is "flaming" you, you're making statements directly contradicted by people in the American government, people in the European Union governments, people in NATO military commands, and even people fighting the war in Ukraine. Everybody on this forum is a full grown man, not a child, which means they should be prepared to have their beliefs challenged. Whenever any of us makes an assertion as if it were a statement of indisputable fact, that is directly contradicted by all available evidence, you can expect at least one of us to contest that assertion. That is how grown men communicate.
Last but certainly not least, if you like your TDS, then you can keep your TDS.
Offline
Like button can go here
#30 Today 08:23:59
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,259
Re: Greenland
transcripts of what trump has said about Greenland
In January 2026, President Trump significantly escalated his rhetoric regarding the acquisition of Greenland, shifting from a proposal to purchase the territory to threats of economic and military action.
Recent Key Statements (January 2026)
"The Easy Way or the Hard Way": In multiple statements, Trump has declared he will secure Greenland "one way or the other". He stated, "I would like to make a deal, the easy way, but if we don't do it the easy way, we're going to do it the hard way".
National Security Concerns: Trump argues that ownership is essential to prevent Russian or Chinese occupation. He claimed, "Greenland is covered with Russian and Chinese ships all over the place... Russian destroyers, Chinese destroyers... submarines all over".
Ownership vs. Leasing: Trump has dismissed the value of military leases, stating, "When we own it, we defend it. You don't defend leases the same way. You have to own it... You really need title".
Dismissal of Danish Claims: He recently questioned Denmark’s historical claim, saying, "The fact that they had a boat land there 500 years ago doesn't mean that they own the land. I'm sure we've had a lot of boats go there also".
Tariff Threats: On January 17, 2026, Trump threatened 10% tariffs on eight European nations—including Denmark, France, and Germany—that oppose the U.S. takeover, warning these would rise to 25% by June 1.
Previous Major Remarks (2025)
Joint Address to Congress (March 4, 2025): Trump addressed Greenlanders directly, stating, "We strongly support your right to determine your own future. And if you choose, we welcome you into the United States of America".
Military Force: In early 2025, Trump explicitly refused to rule out the use of military force to seize both Greenland and the Panama Canal.
"Golden Dome" Missile Defense: Trump has cited the importance of the territory for modern weapons systems and his "Golden Dome" missile defense project.
Direct Transcripts & Detailed Sources
PBS NewHour Transcript: Trump's Threats to Take Over Greenland (Jan 13, 2026)
C-SPAN: Trump on Taking Greenland the "Hard Way" (Jan 9, 2026)
TIME: Full Transcript of 2025 Joint Address to Congress
Offline
Like button can go here
#31 Today 11:29:28
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,184
Re: Greenland
There has been some value gained from all of this.
1) We discover that some of the Europeans have some very bizarre behaviors and attitudes. Good to know, but a bit sad.
2) The Russians don't seem to be aligning to hard again the USA about this (Yet).
Anyone with a sensible mind would have come up with a way for everyone to get what they want, without so much weird behaviors.
I suggested something in post #1.
Since they don't I have a bad feeling about European intentions and what they think about America.
Ending Pending 
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
#32 Today 12:41:00
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,184
Re: Greenland
This is just goofy! https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … 9397424eec Quote:
"The 'Greenland Tariff' Just Destroyed The Silver Market | 10% Tariffs Just Cut Off LBMA"
YouTube
Economy Retract
3 views
Well, we will see. It is something to learn about, beyond my meager money mind.
London will be in trouble is this guy is right.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (Today 12:43:08)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
#33 Today 15:22:35
- Calliban
- Member
- From: Northern England, UK
- Registered: 2019-08-18
- Posts: 4,281
Re: Greenland
Void, perhaps the Russians have read Sun Tzu's The Art of War. Specifically, the part that says 'never interupt your enemy whilst he is making a mistake'. If Trump annexes Greenland, I cannot see any other nation in the world wanting a US base on their soil in the future. Overnight, US bases would stop looking like security guarentees and look more like stategic threats. The arrogance of what Trump is doing is quite staggering. Can you imagine a situation where a country like Britain, France or Russia, threatened to use troops to sieze Alaska, if the US did not hand it over to them peacefully? What on Earth makes anyone here think America can play by different rules to everyone else?
What Trump is doing is nothing short of extortion. It poses a grave risk to global security, because it is likely to weaken trust between the US and allied nations. Without cooperation from those nations and their willingness to have you on their soil, a large part of US power projection capability disappears almost overnight. No wonder the Russians are keeping quiet about this. They undoubtably want it to happen. I said before that I didn't think Trump was a Russian agent. I'm not so sure now. If a US president were a Russian agent and wanted to damage the relationship between the US and the rest of the world, he would be doing exactly what Trump is doing.
Last edited by Calliban (Today 15:34:20)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
Offline
Like button can go here
#34 Today 16:32:34
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,184
Re: Greenland
It will be very difficult to convey understanding. We speak a similar language but have different life references.
From our point of view we have a desire to set up a survivable situation going forward. And if possible, those who think that Greenland should become American, think that with that position they could better protect western Europe. Your ranks are full of traitors of various kinds, continually undermining the strength of America on purpose.
But if you check the post my post #1, I suggested a circumstance of compromise that I thought would work. Territory for American Bases that we could not legally be evicted from. For the Greenlanders, perhaps a commonwealth self-government such as some of our territories have. Even places that Denmark and it's "Friends"? could have a position in. Wealth for the Greenlanders and self-government on much of the territory.
But I don't think the current administration has trust at this point because Europeans have become untrustworthy.
We can see forward on the chess board, and we want to avoid some unfortunate possibilities.
The Military Aspect is the most important issue.
Do you realize that while I had to work 64 or more hour work weeks for much of my working life, Europe was on holiday? But never mind, it was to some degree choice as we were more or less told that we had to provide our retirements.
Now, imagine that this is when the western Roman Empire fell, because the Latins do not know how to work in half of the world. Imagine that America is the Eastern Roman Empire where the character of the Greeks allowed them to work in Europe, Africa, and Asia.
You can only repel the Russians and try to climb on top of them from time to time until you get your butts kicked once more.
They are not a people you can climb on top of. If you were the Mongols, you could surround them and make them pay tribute. But you are not the Mongols and we are nyet! either. And we are happy on this continent. Given a chance the Russians will sell minerals to us, if we have money, as I think that they also like money. So, we need to have money to deal with them (And weapons).
Obviously, we will work with the Russians when we can. But we will count our fingers.
America has worked with the Russians many times. We even bought Alaska from them. If the Orange Man has matters with the Russians, that is not necessarily betrayal, but him doing his duty to America.
The more West Europe becomes trouble for us the more we have to look for other options.
Do you remember WWII, when the NAZI and Japan threw a party? Now we have a Western Europe where I would be afraid to travel to because they might do something to me for the words, I type on my computer.
Now Carney, the sweet child of Britan and West Europe is over in China trying to sell Canada to China. That just looks too familiar.
Fascist behaviors in Western Europe and cultivating an Axis power in the Pacific?
We do need to be careful. The bear may bite, but maybe there are other things to fear in the dark forest.
Half of Western Europe is Socialist, Communist, or Fascist, and have contempt for America. We will not wait around to be raped.
West Europe had plenty of time to offer a compromise that we could trust. But instead rushed to judgement.
I am sorry if your silver market does actually go wrong. I don't think the Orange man did it on purpose. And I am not gloating.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (Today 16:59:06)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here
#35 Today 17:02:30
- kbd512
- Administrator
- Registered: 2015-01-02
- Posts: 8,433
Re: Greenland
Calliban,
If Trump annexes Greenland, I cannot see any other nation in the world wanting a US base on their soil in the future.
Some of us Americans don't want any American military bases in foreign countries. If what President Trump is currently doing in Greenland gets the US military booted out and forces European troops to remain there and pay the associated costs with maintaining a military presence, then I'm all in favor of that.
Overnight, US bases would stop looking like security guarentees and look more like stategic threats.
All military bases are strategic threats. The only question is to whom, and under what circumstances. One nation's security guarantee is the next nation's strategic military threat.
Can you imagine a situation where a country like Britain, France or Russia, threatened to use troops to sieze Alaska, if the US did not hand it over to them peacefully?
Not only can I imagine it, historically that's already happened. Why engage in hypotheticals?
What on Earth makes anyone here think America can play by different rules to everyone else?
It's amazing that you don't grasp the answer to your own question. We can't and shouldn't.
Why should one nation maintain 800 overseas military bases?
We should bring all American military forces home and concentrate on defending America, not the rest of the world.
As an American, I'm completely disinterested in dictating terms to other nations, friendly or hostile. They will not dictate terms to America, either. That is fair.
What Trump is doing is nothing short of extortion.
Demanding that America pay to maintain military bases in foreign countries for their own defense, somehow doesn't count as extortion.
It poses a grave risk to global security, because it is likely to weaken trust between the US and allied nations.
Ask yourself if our military interests are truly aligned. Do you even know what your own nation's military interests are, or has that responsibility been ceded in favor of security guarantees that will ultimately weaken the United Kingdom's military forces?
Without cooperation from those nations and their willingness to have you on their soil, a large part of US power projection capability disappears almost overnight.
You mean America would lack the ability to immediately become involved in foreign wars at the whim of any given American politician?
Hallelujah!
No wonder the Russians are keeping quiet about this. They undoubtably want it to happen.
The Russians are so mired in problems of their own making that they have no bandwidth to address America stepping back from the "World Police" role.
You're still worried about an economy the size of Italy dictating terms to the rest of Europe? How would that happen, exactly?
I said before that I didn't think Trump was a Russian agent. I'm not so sure now.
Over your entire life, you've never experienced an American President who was more concerned with American interests than being a "Citizen of the World".
If a US president were a Russian agent and wanted to damage the relationship between the US and the rest of the world, he would be doing exactly what Trump is doing.
If an American President was more concerned with his own nation's interests than those of every other nation, then he'd behave exactly as President Trump does. He'd be far less interested in what everyone else thinks than what his own people think.
Offline
Like button can go here
#36 Today 17:44:42
- SpaceNut
- Administrator
- From: New Hampshire
- Registered: 2004-07-22
- Posts: 30,259
Re: Greenland
If all bases come home, that means we are headed to be isolationism once more and we know what happened after we were a nation on that course what happened.
National isolationism is a foreign policy where a country avoids political, military, and sometimes economic alliances and involvement with other nations, focusing instead on domestic issues and self-reliance, exemplified historically by the U.S. under Washington's Farewell Address, aiming for neutrality and avoiding "foreign entanglements". While often seeking economic engagement, it emphasizes non-intervention in foreign wars and disputes, though it can manifest through trade restrictions (protectionism) or diplomatic detachment.
Key Characteristics
Avoidance of Alliances: Refusal to join binding military pacts or international agreements that might draw the nation into foreign conflicts.
Non-Intervention: Staying out of other nations' wars and political disputes, a concept rooted in George Washington's warning.
Self-Reliance: Focusing national efforts on internal development and security.
Economic Policies: Can include protectionist tariffs to shield domestic industries from foreign competition.
Historical Example: United States
Founding Era: Early U.S. policy, guided by Washington, sought commercial ties but political detachment from Europe.
19th Century: Maintained political isolation while expanding territory.
Interwar Period (1930s): Strong isolationist sentiment, reinforced by the Great Depression and WWI trauma, leading to Neutrality Acts.
End of Era: The attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941 effectively ended this period of broad isolationism
Offline
Like button can go here
#37 Today 18:01:52
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,184
Re: Greenland
We are not isolated, I can talk to Calliban.
I just don't want people who don't know how to walk on their hind paws, who drag knuckles, to feel free to exercise bad intentions towards us.
And it is time to sort out our own house. It is full of cooties it seems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooties
Quote:
Cooties is a fictitious childhood disease, commonly represented as childlore. It is used in the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the Philippines as a rejection term and an infection tag game (such as Humans vs. Zombies). It is similar to the British "dreaded lurgi", and to terms used in the Nordic countries, in Italy, India and Iraq.[1] A child is said to "catch" cooties through close contact with an "infected" person or from an opposite-sex child of a similar age.
The immune system has awakened.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (Today 18:04:48)
Is it possible that the root of political science claims is to produce white collar jobs for people who paid for an education and do not want a real job?
Offline
Like button can go here