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#3976 2025-12-06 07:14:02
- SpaceNut
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Re: Housekeeping
All done for those
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#3977 2025-12-06 09:12:41
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut re #3976
Thanks for porting the image links! They look good! I will try to port more images today.
FYI ... with a little help from Gemini, I just found a candidate Crater for Calliban's dome structure.
GW Johnson has an idea for a different building design, and there is a Crater near to the one I am proposing for Calliban.
For any NewMars member who wants to try their hand at designing a habitat that would fit inside a crater, there is a nice BIG Crater nearby.
We have thousands of craters scattered across the landscape, so there is plenty of room for everyone to set up shop in a crater, let alone on the plains nearby.
I'll post the report shortly in City.
Here is an image of craters on Mars that might be suitable for development my NewMars entrepreneurs.
I doubt any other humans have their eyes on these particular craters.
https://newmars.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=41
If anyone is interested in seeing the craters, a short cut is to call up MRO CTX, 22n048w Mosaic
Apparently that is a set of data taken to show the bounded region in middle range resolution.
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#3978 2025-12-06 19:03:28
- SpaceNut
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Re: Housekeeping
So where is it relative to what we have already sent landers to.
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#3979 2025-12-06 22:53:12
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut ... the crater of interest is 59 kilometers from Viking 1.
The round dot that indicates the site of Viking 1 is large enough to include both Viking 1 and the crater-of-interest.
You can see a similar indicator by activating the high definition section for the Viking 1 site.
As you probably saw in the post about Viking 1, the site was chosen for safe landing, after the original scientific destination was found to be too dangerous.
Please consider putting the image you showed us in Post #3978 into the City topic, along with the text that the proposed crater site is 59 kilometers away.
I've made a mental note to try to create an image that shows the two in one snapshot.
Update: I think the crater is inside the round dot that indicates the Viking 1 site in the image you showed us.
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#3980 2025-12-07 10:35:52
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut ...
Your interesting new topic about "boing" may be about Boeing? or perhaps about Boring ? .
Or perhaps it is about the sound of a spring when it is released?
Index
» Exploration to Settlement Creation
» Boing plus Drilling tech, 3D printing insitu and Tunneling equipment
^^^^^^
You have the ability to edit Post 1 to change the topic title.
You also have a firm policy of never changing anything you have typed...
Please make an exception to your "no change" policy in this case.
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#3981 2025-12-07 13:33:46
- SpaceNut
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Re: Housekeeping
Done as I did not see it but the topic is to collect types, mass and more for the equipment that is needed to be sent to mars.
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#3982 2025-12-07 18:54:16
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut re #3981
Thanks for changing Boing to Boring !!! It ** does ** make a difference for future readers!
Regarding dump trucks ... http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 13#p236013
This forum spent quite a bit of time thinking (and writing) about power for heavy equipment on Mars.
Your posts show Earth equipment. Mars equipment will look ** very ** different.
It is possible you have forgotten all that work, although I'm sure you read it at the time it was created.
Each vehicle that uses piston engines on Mars will have to carry oxygen and compressed oxygen is more likely to be the mode than liquid.
My recollection is that the consensus was that simple CO and O2 gases are the most cost effective practical fuel combinations for Mars. All the fancy talk about hydrocarbons is just that. The economics of creating hydrocarbon fuels while still having to carry oxygen just don't make sense.
Your AI friend may be able to create images of dump trucks for Mars, with huge tanks for fuel and oxidizer.
At one time we computed the ratio of size of tanks. I think it was two to one, but I don't remember which was which
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#3983 2025-12-08 08:33:24
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut re CO2 topics ...
Recently we've seen renewed interest in CO2 reduction ...
CO2 is a critical capability needed for Mars, and this forum has an opportunity to establish a store of knowledge.
This forum was established as an entertainment concept, and long term value was (apparently) not included in the early vision.
We do NOT have to be bound by the early vision ... in fact, I think it is clear that the early vision has run it's course. It worked for 20 years and a bit more, but now we have an opportunity to go beyond that starting point.
I would like to have a repository of knowledge about all the different ways CO2 might be processed to create useful products.
Ideally the advantages and disadvantages of each method would be listed in useful detail.
The investments needed to create a particular method would be given, and the costs of maintenance and sustained operation would be estimated.
In short, a person or group planning to set up shop on Mars would have a resource available to quickly help them decide where to put their money, time and effort.
Here is a list of the topics we have now with CO2 in the title:
Coal-fired Brayton Cycle Supercritical CO2 Boilers by kbd512
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 1 2025-10-26 20:40:02 by CallibanAgriculture Study Mars Pure CO2 Greenhouse by tahanson43206 [ 1 2 3 ]
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 54 2025-06-07 23:10:41 by VoidCO2 traps on Mars by Antius
Terraformation 4 2024-11-04 17:26:29 by VoidCO2 capture by tahanson43206
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 2 2024-11-03 19:47:13 by tahanson43206Butane from CO2 and Water - complex multi-step process by tahanson43206
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 4 2024-10-08 10:40:26 by CallibanCO2 as a resource [associated with orbital assets] by Void [ 1 2 ]
Terraformation 30 2024-10-04 10:42:47 by VoidWater/CO2 NERVA for Mars by Quaoar
Interplanetary transportation 10 2024-09-15 16:21:12 by tahanson43206Strategic CO2 Reserve Establishment by kbd512
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 3 2024-04-08 09:49:27 by CallibanSticky: CO2 Energy Storage System - Compressed Gas - Closed Loop by tahanson43206
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 8 2024-02-19 10:56:38 by SpaceNutCO2 / Dry Ice Cleaning by kbd512
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 5 2023-12-31 14:23:47 by SpaceNutSubsurface dry ice and liquid CO2 by Calliban
Exploration to Settlement Creation 5 2023-12-19 18:01:22 by CallibanSticky: Cold CO2 powered vehicles by Calliban
Planetary transportation 13 2023-11-30 21:52:44 by SpaceNutLithium CO2 batteries by louis
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 6 2023-07-05 20:29:41 by SpaceNutCO2 Sublimation Heat Engine by louis [ 1 2 ]
Life support systems 40 2022-09-13 20:09:53 by Mars_B4_MoonRevisiting Supersonic CO2 Compressors for Mars EDL by kbd512
Human missions 11 2021-04-16 23:06:10 by SpaceNutSolar Heliostat System with Molten Salt Bath, and Liquid CO2 Method. by Void [ 1 2 ]
Life support systems 25 2021-02-25 19:00:54 by SpaceNutSolar Mirror CO2 to Oxygen Converter by Dook
Life support systems 10 2021-01-24 19:33:09 by SpaceNutLiquid CO2 for clothes washing by Quaoar
Life support systems 14 2021-01-24 19:31:16 by SpaceNutA method(s) to deal with CO2. by Void
Science, Technology, and Astronomy 1 2020-08-07 21:05:48 by VoidTools not co2 air based more like hand or battery by SpaceNut
Life support systems 7 2020-01-06 10:38:18 by tahanson43206Pages:1
A complete system would include:
1) capture of CO2 from the atmosphere (inside or outside of habitats)
2) production of CO and O2 for stored energy applications (ie, trucks, vehicles, generators, other)
3) production of pure carbon for advanced manufacturing such as hydrocarbon fuels or nanotechnology using carbon
Other I haven't thought of?
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#3984 2025-12-08 15:46:14
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut .... you had asked about where Calliban's Crater is with respect to Viking 1. The image at the link below shows a triangle of craters that contain Calliban's Crater and which are to the left of Viking 1. I had to crop the image to fit into the NewMars Image server, or I would have included part of the Hirise panel for Viking 1.
https://newmars.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=71
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#3985 2025-12-08 18:17:54
- SpaceNut
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Re: Housekeeping
I was wondering about the larger what appears to be raised in the center but rimmed with a trough around them. It might be easier to use the large rimmed crators to at least visit to check them out as well.
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#3986 2025-12-08 18:35:26
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut re #3985
First, nice post in Calliban's series about his home generator: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 43#p236043
I'm impressed by how (relatively) easy the two barrel system would be to build.
Second, thanks for your interest in the site I've been promoting for Calliban's venture. Your observations are encouraging, and I hope others will be inspired to consider designing an installation in one of the larger craters. The one selected for Calliban is small precisely to allow Calliban's design to fit securely inside.
The crater is 500 meters in diameter, and Calliban's design is 200 meters in diameter at the base. I do not yet know how the diameter of the crater is measured, but my assumption is that the diameter is measured from rim to rim. If that is the case, then the dimensions are almost perfect for Calliban's design. You can see what his design might look like by calling up this image:
https://newmars.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=4
You can imagine the interior of the dome with this image:
https://newmars.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=7
Please note that the interior view does NOT show the correct shape for the dome. The correct shape is an inverted catenary! You can give yourself the opportunity to see a catenary by drooping a shoelace between your outstretch hands. Nature arranges the material of the shoe lace to achieve the optimum possible flow of force. Calliban has proposed a catenary for the dome to insure the forces at work are distributed in the very best possible way. The internal pressure of 1/2 bar is going to be countered by the mass of the regolith piled outside the dome.
Construction will be challenging because the automation must place the materials in coordinated time. Each layer of wall material must be laid so that the compressive forces are distributed simultaneously, and the outside layer of material must be added in perfect coordination with the wall construction. Building at the upper region of the dome will be especially challenging, but my understanding is that well coordinately placement of materials will allow the dome to grow without risk of falling in, because the compression forces will be managed with high accuracy.
When construction of the dome is complete and the structure has proven itself stable, the capping layer of regolith can be added.
Of course you recognize that lighting is done with LED panels inside the dome.
The entire complex must be powered by a robust fission reactor. I assume the reactor will be some distance away from the dome, and one of the excavated volumes in the crater wall would be a logical place for such a system.
Details of how fresh water will be supplied and waste handled remain for Calliban to solve, along with details of electrical wiring, communications wiring and services, and fresh air management.
Update: The potholes scan is under way. It will run all night.
After the run ends I'll try to allocate some time to refreshing my memory on how to create a new script to perform the recap updates. This would be the most complex script yet, and it may require one or more new commands. The first step is to review the existing commands. There are quite a few.
Scanning through the posts in a topic to find the topic title is an example of a situation where a new command may be needed.
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#3987 2025-12-09 07:42:11
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut ... the potholes can found only one! 235254 is missing.
The run went well. The Internet must have been smooth last night.
I'll begin the process of trying to remember how all this works later today.
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#3988 2025-12-09 18:48:46
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut re new series on LED lighting....
Nice! The idea of projecting upward is particularly interesting! We could mount very light weight mirrors on the interior of the dome, and let the LED's projecting from below illuminate the entire interior.
The original idea was to mount panels on the interior wall, and that would have required lighting that would have needed cables to carry electricity, plus there would be need for periodic maintenance. Your suggestion of projecting light upwards would eliminate all those issues.
Update: SpaceNut, your idea is so good, it occurred to me it might have been tried on Earth. I'd be interested to see what your AI friend can discover about that!
The kinds of projectors would be interesting, as well as the kind of reflector.
The more I think about it, movie theaters must have been dealing with that very problem since the first projector was invented.
OK ... I yielded to temptation and asked Gemini. Next post will show the conversation.
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#3989 Yesterday 07:44:32
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut re Knowledge Collection for Mars settlers
Today kbd512 published a post that looks to me like a seed that might grow into an organized collection of knowledge that could be consulted by future Mars explorers and settlers and their funders.
Please don't ** do ** anything until we Admins and Members have a chance to think about how we might proceed.
You've already created a Category (Projects) that is visible only to members. We have the opportunity to recruit persons who are seriously interested in exploring or settling Mars, or in building industries to support that effort. Just as in the days of the Gold Rush, the businesses that supply the explorers and settlers are the ones who will become wealthy on Earth.
The settlers are the ones who will become wealthy on Mars. and that wealth will be derived entirely from their success is harnessing atomic energy for the Mars undertaking. When I use the term "atomic" I am including solar power which comes from fusion.
Some energy may be available from the interior of Mars, but I suspect that for many years, atomic power is going to serve most explorers and settlers and their descendants.
***
Here's a little project for your AI friend ... see if you can persuade your AI friend to create a picture or perhaps a whole set of pictures showing what a vehicle (like a truck) would look like if it uses CO and O2 in gaseous form to store energy.
We can easily imagine what such a vehicle might look like, if we consider a Russian Proton moving along a railway to a launch site. The cylindrical tanks hold fuel and oxidizer. Rockets that bring supplies from Earth on one-way trips could be tipped over and used to hold fuel and oxidizer for vehicles and for fixed installations.
The most practical way to use these storage systems is to hold CO and O2 in gaseous form, which means the quantity of gas is limited by the burst strength of the tanks. I don't know what the storage capacity of various existing rocket systems might be, but we may be lucky enough to inspire contributions by NewMars members active today. Even better would be to inspire future Mars settlers to join this forum and contribute practical knowledge, such as how to adapt a SpaceX lander for use as a storage tank system for a fixed site or for a mobile system of some kind.
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#3990 Yesterday 19:16:05
- tahanson43206
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Re: Housekeeping
For SpaceNut re interior illumination for Calliban's 200 meter diameter dome....
The more we NewMars members toss posts back and forth, the more I'm getting the impression a mixture of lighting solutions may turn out to be best. We want the interior to re pleasing for humans to enjoy, so the sky scape of light blue LED panels that can be programmed to appear white to simulate clouds seems attractive, but your most recent conversation with your AI friend about grow lights reminds us all that lighting for plants might be best arranged as arrays suspended the ideal distance above the plants. if this were done with skill, it might turn out the interior view seen by humans would be pleasing due to the mixture of colors including light reflected from leaves.
In other words, it might NOT be necessary to create a Sun's equivalent illumination with "sky" panels, because the grow lights could be closer to the intended recipient, while the sky lights provide a level of illumination and combinations of spectra that humans would enjoy, at less energy cost.
The fission reactor we need for this city is a robust design that i am sure Calliban is hard at work to make happen in a reasonable time period.
We don't need to be thinking about dinky little NASA reactors for deep space probes.
The reactor that Calliban will design will be large enough to power construction and then operation for years.
From having read much of Calliban's thoughts on this subject, i'd not be the least surprised to see his reactors breeding new fuel and consuming old fission debris.
In short, the building and town designers have every reason to be assured of adequate power at all phases of the project.
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