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tahanson43206,
I''m back into the NewMars NightOwl Zoom meeting.
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We have started a second session .... I've turned the audio alert on ... anyone is welcome to join the meeting ...
It features RobertDyck talking about the recent Mars Convention. He reported having a conversation with Dr. Zubrin.
Reminder .... find the link at the top of the Zoom Topic.
(th)
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There may be some conflicting requirements on these rocket hopper and truck train presentations.
The long form of each presentation has more charts showing a bit more detail about how things were done. Number of "meat" charts times 3 minutes each is usually enough to present and answer perhaps 1 question per chart. Even so, all the details cannot be included in a half-hour presentation, because the process was very iterative with the rocket hopper. Not so much the truck train.
The orbit analysis interacts with the entry analysis which interacts with the braked landing analysis which interacts with the vehicle weights and dimensions analysis which interacts with the orbit analysis .... See the problem?
The short form, for a 5 minute video, would be just presenting the very few (2 or 3) key charts and not answering any questions. 5 minutes is not the venue to answer questions, although it certainly is a source of questions. That's where the rocket hopper rehearsal went far astray.
As for the "too much math" objection, that's not much of a problem with the truck train, but it is inherent with the rocket hopper, because not just any scenario works. The solution space turned out to be quite restricted, and not in the corner I expected. Such cannot be found without doing a lot of design analysis, which is inherently iterative, and requires semi-automated spreadsheet tools to conduct. It's just not a sequence of unrelated multiplications or sums.
What I seem to have assumed is that people would who view these rocket hopper things would already be nodding-familiar with the first 3 lessons in the orbits course, enough to recognize the use of its orbits spreadsheet. That seems to be a bad assumption.
I am unsure how to make any changes to address these problems.
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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For GW Johnson re #578
Your reviewer is an expert in numbers. He is a professional in accounting and finances. His expertise does not include calculus or related parts of the mathematical universe.
I'd suggest not changing anything until we get more feedback from NSS North Houston.
I think that animation will help a great deal. Human beings do advanced calculus operations every moment of every day, but it all happens inside the brain, far below consciousness. A high school student can deliver a basket ball to a net while moving rapidly in three dimensions, and giving the baskball torque to cause a slight adjustment of the path when it hits the backboard. It is highly likely that most basketball players would be unable to describe this complex real world computation using symbols. You are one of a relatively small number of human beings alive on Earth who ** could ** perform those calculations.
Our goal in these proceedings is to reach young people (and occasionally an older one) who are equipped with whatever brain subsystems are needed to perform symbolic mathematics. Our path to this goal is cleared for us by folks who are NOT so equipped, but who are supportive and willing to make investments of time and energy to help.
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meeting does not seem to be open by the host yet
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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Hi GW .... the meeting is up ... Brian is in and Keith is trying to connect.
Please click on the link again
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The meeting is under way.
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The Zoom topic was opened accidentally ... the meeting was on Google Meeting ...
However, this incident is helpful to me, so next time we set up a meeting, I put up a note in the system we are NOT using.
Not everyone gets the word, but the forum software seems to be able to help everyone connect.
Our contact from National Space Society used the telephone, and that works as well, for those with access.
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NewMars is now using Google Meeting. Meanwhile, the local Linux Group is continuing to use Zoom.
Last night I got a chance to witness an example of collaboration in solving a complex problem. There were four to six participants throughout the two hours of the scheduled session.
The problem to be solved was the absence of a web site from active status. It turned out there were multiple issues to be solved.
The initial change that took the web site offline was the change of the physical connection from traditional cable to fiber. This change caused a change of the IP address assigned to the site by AT&T. Because the web site is running with an unpaid IP address, it can change, and it did change in this case.
For the record, the IP assignment types are static (paid) and dynamic (assigned by Internet Provider on next-available-address basis).
To save the cost of a permanent IP address, the owner of the web site for this discussion is using the dynamic IP address, with the understanding that if it changes, the owner is responsible for adjusting the corresponding value in the web site domain registration record.
However, the next complication was caused by Google having sold it's domain registration service to Square Space, which appears to be a division of GoDaddy. In any case, the owner of the web site could no longer access the Google site to manage the account.
Finally, procedures for setting up and maintaining the Encryption service have changed.
The group interacted with the web site owner using Zoom, with shared screens changing as the focus changed throughout the meeting.
There was a moment when a member who lives in Ontario suggested that we consult ChatGPT3 when a particularly difficult problem arose.
We had succeeded in helping the web site owner to gain access to the account by working with Square Space, and the web site owner updated the IP address to the one assigned by AT&T on the fiber connection. The Square Space system then obliged by showing the web site the owner had set up, so we knew the basic connection was working.
We then tackled configuration of the encryption service .... the web site owner has been using a free certificate service, and when he invoked the service to create a new certificate for secure service (ie, https://), the setup program complained but it helped by creating a log showing the fault. We worked our way through a number of faults but hit one that no one could solve.
The Canadian member then suggested ChatGPT. We used the free version, and since I have a bit of experience working with ChatGPT, I suggested a set of requests that led to discovery that a new (to the web site owner) file is now needed in the folder for the certificate. He used the Linux 'touch' command to create a file in the correct location as suggested by ChatGPT3, and the certification procedure responding that the value in the file name was incorrect. Happily, it provided the needed value in the log file.
At that point the web site owner ran out of trials in a given hour.
We closed the meeting with the expectation the web site owner would have the site back up when he tries again after a wait of an hour or so.
I've seen successful Zoom collaboration before, but this session was near the top for quality of the participation, the difficulty of the problem to be solved, and the success achieved over two hours.
Side note: The participants updated the group on the temperature in their locations... The gent in Toronto gave the lowest readings, well into the minus figures on the Fahrenheit scale. I was content with the 10 degrees above zero that registered locally. RobertDyck is probably seeing readings well into the minus range.
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Google Meeting room is open. I'm not expecting anyone, so have plenty to do. (th)
I opened the Zoom topic by accident.
We can still use Zoom, if there is someone who prefers it.
For tonight, use Google Meeting.
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For SpaceNut ... just FYI ... the Zoom account is still working, in case we have a use for it.
I exercised it today, and it still seems to be working normally. Zoom has some features that seem to work well.
One possible use is to handle a Google Meeting that runs long...
Last week Google refused to let me start another session after the first timed out.
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Zoom is open
The Zoom backup option worked.
From my perspective, this was a most interesting ** and ** productive meeting.
Thanks to GW Johnson for introducing Mrs. Johnson!
I'm hoping the iPhone session will lead to a successful outcome.
To find out, you can go to any of your YouTube videos and try to add a "Hot Link" ... if it turns blue in the display, you're a certified Hot Link Creator.
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For NewMars members attending Google meeting Sunday the 23rd...
This Zoom topic is available as a backup site if the Google Meeting times out, as is highly likely.
If the Google Meeting times out, simply activate the Zoom link and you will be in the waiting room. I'll be setting up as host as quickly as I can.
The Zoom meeting will then provide 40 minutes of overtime.
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We are still able to use Zoom for meetings if there is a need.
Mars Society moved to Google Meetings, and we have done the same, but I keep the Zoom account open in case there is a need for that option.
That said, this evening I went through the exercise of attempting to update Zoom on Ubuntu. The current version is 6.1.10
Zoom Workplace is a different version, and the version I have for that is 6.2.3(2056)
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In an effort to provide backup for our Google Meeting capability, I have attempted to restore use of Zoom after recent changes to the Zoom environment that prevent use of the Professional Zoom account we've been using.
The professional account still works, but I can't log into it as host, so it's not useful.
However! I was able to set up a new unpaid account, and it seems to work. How persistent it is remains to be seen.
The login credentials are posted at the top of this topic, and I'm looking for an opportunity to test them in the not too distant future.
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As reported yesterday (Saturday) I would like to test Zoom as a backup for Google Meeting.
The Professional Zoom provided by the Mars Society still works but I am unable to log in as a host, so it is not useful.
The non-paid Zoom I've set up is limited to 40 minutes of meeting time, but that is more than enough for most NewMars meetings.
The credential/login information is post #1 of this topic, as was true with the Professional version.
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This post is reserved for a quote from another post for history reasons.
The Zoom service we enjoyed for a time, courtesy of the Mars Society, had a number of desirable features.
The permanent nature of the Zoom waiting room was particularly valuable. it meant that our members could find the waiting room week after week without anything more than a click on the link, which was offered in Post #1 of this topic.
The waiting room is still there, and it is still working, but I am unable to log in as host, so it is not useful in a practical sense.
The alternative works, but is requires a bit more preparation on my part. However, it appears that when I perform the setup correctly, the connection is just as convenient for our members. The difference is that the Zoom waiting room I create now is temporary. It only lasts as long as I hold it open, and it only lasts for 40 minutes where there are guests in attendance.
All that said, Zoom has a lot to offer, so I think it is worth keeping this service available for our members.
Some historical data will be pasted after this point.
****
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While NewMars has not been using Zoom for a while, I remain in touch with two groups who are both using the paid version of Zoom for monthly meetings.
The local Linux focus group just conducted another two hour meeting, and when other topics has run their course, we decided to beat on the Whiteboard feature of Zoom for a while. I was running an older version of Zoom and it failed to deliver the whiteboard, but everyone else was able to use the feature with success. I have since upgraded my Zoom Workplace to the current version, and now the whiteboard is working.
I'm impressed by how well the feature works on PC (windows/linux and Mac) and on smartphones (Apple and Android).
If NewMars ever needs a live interactive whiteboard environment for collaboration on anything involving non-text interactions, I think the current Zoom offering is well worth considering.
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This post is about using the Zoom Waiting Room Chat feature. I had no idea this feature exists, but it would have helped the National Space Society today.
Gemini on Zoom
Conversation with Gemini
Zoom Waiting Room Correspondence? Hi Gemini! This is a Zoom question, and you can be forgiven if you are not familiar with the product. I use Google Meeting for weekly meetings, and I really like the features. However, I do attend meetings that are set up on Zoom. This evening, we were hit by spammers late in the meeting. Our Waiting Room attendant is new at the job, and he admitted two latecomers who turned out to be spammers. I am corresponding with an officer of the group which suffered the attack, and wonder if the Waiting Room feature has a capability of corresponding with an applicant before admitting them? Or is there something else we could do? We can definitely set up a white list of regular members, but the group would like to be open to other guests.
***
That's an excellent question, and I can certainly help you with Zoom's features, even though I'm a Google product! Dealing with spammers is frustrating, but there are definitely ways to use the Waiting Room more effectively for screening guests.The good news is that Zoom's Waiting Room feature does have a capability for the host/co-host to communicate with an applicant before admitting them.
Here's a breakdown of the feature and other steps your group can take:
? Two-Way Chat in the Waiting Room
The key feature you're looking for is the ability to send messages to Waiting Room participants.Host/Co-Host Can Send Messages: As the meeting host or co-host (the attendant), you can send a message to everyone in the Waiting Room. This is often used for updates like, "The meeting is starting in 5 minutes," or to provide a short instruction.
Individual and Reply Capability (Important!): More crucially, Zoom also supports two-way chat with individual participants in the Waiting Room.
This setting needs to be enabled in the Zoom web portal settings by the user who scheduled the meeting.
If enabled, the attendant can send a message to a specific person, and that person can reply.
The attendant can ask a simple security question to the latecomer/guest, such as, "Welcome, can you please state the name of the member who invited you, or the main topic of tonight's meeting?"
This individual chat feature is the most direct solution for your attendant to vet a latecomer before admitting them.
?️ Other Security Best Practices for Public Meetings
Since you want to remain open to guests, here are a few security options to combine with your Waiting Room:Customize the Waiting Room Message:
In the Zoom web portal, you can customize the message guests see.
You can use this to set a small hurdle for spammers by asking a non-security-sensitive screening question (e.g., "If you are a guest, please be ready to state the name of the person who invited you.")
Required Registration:
If you enable Meeting Registration when scheduling, guests must fill out a short form (Name, Email, maybe an open-ended question).
You can then manually approve who receives the join link. Spammers are less likely to take the time to register thoughtfully.
Disable Features for Participants:
Once a meeting is running, the host can use the Security button to disable potentially disruptive features for non-hosts/co-hosts:
Turn off Screen Sharing for participants.
Turn off the ability for participants to Rename Themselves.
Limit or disable Chat (e.g., only allowing chat to the Host/Co-host).
Co-Host for the Waiting Room:
If your regular attendant is busy with the meeting, assign a Co-Host role whose sole job is to manage the Waiting Room and screen latecomers. This divides the attention load.
Enable "Require Authentication to Join":
This forces people to be logged into a valid Zoom account to join the meeting, which can deter anonymous spammers. You can still set it to allow anyone with a free Zoom account, which keeps it open to guests.
I would strongly suggest your group looks into enabling the two-way chat in the Waiting Room settings, as that is the direct answer to your question and the most effective way to screen late-arriving guests!
Would you like me to find instructions on how to enable the two-way chat feature for the Zoom Waiting Room?
Thank you ** very ** much for this helpful information! I'll pass it along immediately!
You are very welcome! I'm glad I could provide helpful information to address the spammer issue.
Best of luck to your group in setting up those security features!
Since you found the information useful, would you like me to find the specific steps for enabling the two-way chat feature in the Zoom web portal, or perhaps look up how to set up Meeting Registration?
Let's see if the group needs additional help. The group leader is fairly savvy, although clearly this is not something he had occasion to learn until now.
That makes perfect sense. Given that the group leader is savvy, they may be able to locate and enable the necessary settings based on the feature names.
Just in case they need a quick reference, here are the general steps for enabling the Waiting Room Chat feature in the Zoom Web Portal. This is often the trickiest setting to find:
⚙️ Enabling Waiting Room Chat in Zoom
Log in: The meeting host must log into the Zoom web portal (not the desktop app).Navigate to Settings: Go to Settings in the left navigation panel.
Find Waiting Room: Select the Security tab, or navigate to Meeting > In Meeting (Advanced), and scroll down to the Waiting Room section.
Enable Chat: Ensure the main Waiting Room toggle is ON. Look for a setting that controls communication, which is often labeled:
"Allow participants in the waiting room to chat with the host and co-hosts"
This setting must be enabled for the attendant to communicate with individual latecomers.
I hope this quick guide is all the group leader needs to secure their future meetings! If you hear back that they need help with any of the other suggestions (like setting up registration or disabling in-meeting features), just let me know!
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