Business Opportunity Harness Tides on Earth and elsewhere

tahanson43206 · 2025-04-05 14:42:54

This business proposal derives from work by Calliban and kbd512 (with assistance from Terraformer)

It was originally created with compressed air for transportation as a possible product category. However, in October of 2025, it is expanded a bit.

The Moon provides a reliable source of non-carbon energy by pulling water around the Earth twice a day.

Calliban and kbd512 have been thinking (and talking) about compressed air powered vehicles for a while.

This topic is set up for development of a business that combines tidal energy with compressed air energy storage.

I'm tossing Trompe compression into the mix, but at this point I have no idea what it would take to set up a Trompe able to produce 500 - 800 bar.

The Earth's gravity may not be sufficient to produce those pressures, but a Trompe system might do some of the work.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2025-04-05 14:44:11

This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members over time.

Index:
Post by SpaceNut: links to related web sites:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 46#p234746

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2025-10-06 08:42:26

This topic remains wide open for development.

The tides are a reliable renewable energy source, on a human time scale.

They are driven by the energy invested long ago in the lunar mass in orbit around the Earth, as well as in the mass of the Earth itself.

In the context of ** this ** topic, compression of air will require design of systems that take advantage of the movement of water to lift mass above a pump on the up stroke, and then to allow that mass to descend on the compression stroke.

This topic is potentially available for discussion of use of tides to collect energy from the Earth/Moon system for other applications than just compression of air, although that is certainly a leading candidate for development.

This is certainly a venue for the patient investor, in every sense.

My understanding is that there are two tides at any point on Earth, each 1440+48.8 minute lunar "day". Of these the one between the two bodies is the greater, while the one on the opposite side of the Earth is the lesser, because it is the result of diminution of gravity rather than increase.

I would like to see rigorous mathematical treatment of this business opportunity, as well as practical engineering drawings for machinery able to harness the Moon's momentum to deliver useful services on Earth.

The forum now offers a facility for storage of images (jpg or png) that can show designs.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2025-10-06 14:18:25

Tide low to high as seen is a 2 times a day event for most of the earth with a rise of near nothing to 30 ft vertically in place along the shore line. The cadeance is very slow to get energy from but the flow of water entering a shore line stream to marsh land up stream can get a large volume in that rise with the right equipment to make power with.
Ocean wave power is also a method but with any of these comes the question of the land ownership and regulations for the equipment.

AI Overview
Tidal Power Faces a Fickle Future with Rising Seas ...
Ocean tide power, or tidal energy, is a form of renewable energy that harnesses the gravitational interaction between the Earth, Moon, and Sun to create electricity from the natural rise and fall of ocean tides. This clean energy is generated by using specialized structures like tidal barrages, which act like dams across bays, or tidal turbines, underwater propellers that convert the kinetic energy of tidal currents into electricity. While expensive to build, tidal energy offers a reliable and predictable power source with significant potential for sustainable energy systems.
How it Works
Gravitational Pull: The consistent pull of the moon, sun, and Earth's rotation creates predictable cycles of high and low tides.
Harnessing Movement: This natural water movement is captured and converted into electricity through two main methods:
Tidal Barrages: A dam-like structure is built across an estuary or bay, creating a tidal basin. During high tide, water flows into the basin, and during low tide, it's released through turbines in the barrage to generate power.
Tidal Turbines: These underwater devices, similar to wind turbines but built to withstand water's greater density, are placed in fast-flowing tidal streams. As the water moves past, it spins the turbine blades, which in turn drive a generator.
Types of Tidal Energy Systems
Tidal barrages: Use dams to create a large difference in water level, storing potential energy.
Tidal lagoons: Similar to barrages but are partly enclosed areas of the ocean, allowing water to flow in and out through turbines.
Tidal stream generators: Place turbines on the seafloor to capture the kinetic energy of strong tidal currents.
Advantages
Clean Energy: Produces minimal greenhouse gases compared to fossil fuels.
Predictable: Tidal patterns are consistent and predictable, providing a reliable power source.
High Power Output: Because water is much denser than air, tidal turbines can generate a high amount of electricity from a relatively small device.
Disadvantages
High Costs: Initial construction costs for tidal energy systems are substantial.
Geographic Limitations: Economically viable tidal power generation requires locations with significant tidal ranges, which are not found everywhere.
Environmental Impact: The presence of turbines or barrages can have negative effects on marine life and ecosystems

SpaceNut · Yesterday 14:32:33

related topics
Tidal Lagoons

Wave Power Associated Systems

Power of Earths Oceans

SpaceNut · Yesterday 16:46:08

Ocean-warming-is-making-big-waves-more-powerful-730x410.jpg

This metric, called wave power, has been increasing in direct association with historical warming of the ocean surface. The upper ocean warming, measured as a rising trend in sea-surface temperatures, has influenced wind patterns globally, and this, in turn, is making ocean waves stronger. Ocean Warming is Making Waves Much More Powerful University of California researchers found wave power increased globally by 0.4% every year since 1948.

Global warming is fueling stronger ocean waves

SpaceNut · Yesterday 16:52:45

A recent increase in global wave power as a consequence of oceanic warming

https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/hyd … -power.php

WAVE ENERGY: Aquabuoy 2.0 Wave Power Generator

Yes we are treading into Green energy

tahanson43206 · Today 09:25:36

For SpaceNut ...

Thank you for your contributions to this topic! The wave action systems look practical to me. Their output might be modest, but in some locations it ought to be fairly reliable.

In a follow up to the question of harnessing tidal power, I asked Google for an estimate of the size of tides along the US East coast:

What are normal tide heights along the Atlantic coast of the US
Normal tide heights on the U.S. Atlantic coast vary significantly, with Maine experiencing the largest ranges (up to 20 feet), areas north of Cape Cod having 8–15 feet, and the area from south of Cape Cod to the Florida Keys having a normal range of 5–8 feet.
Regional Variations
Maine: Experiences the largest tidal ranges on the U.S. East Coast, with ranges of about 20 feet in areas like Eastport and Cobscook Bay.
North of Cape Cod: Tidal ranges are generally between 8–15 feet.
South of Cape Cod to Florida Keys: The normal tidal range is between 5–8 feet.
Factors Influencing Tidal Height
Tidal Range: The difference between high tide and low tide is known as the tidal range.
Moon's Gravitational Pull: The Moon's elliptical orbit affects the Earth's tides; tides are higher when the moon is closest (perigee) and smaller
when it's furthest (apogee), according to US Harbors.
Earth's Elliptical Orbit: Earth's orbit also influences tidal ranges, resulting in larger-than-average tides when Earth is closest to the sun (early January) and smaller ones when it is furthest (early July).

What I'm thinking about is a small scale system to harness tides. In your reporting above, we can see that a few communities have decided to set up containment systems for entire bays. However, a much smaller system should be possible, if smaller power collection is acceptable.

Taking the Southern stretch along the US East coast as an example, with tides between 5 and 8 feet, the entreprenute might build an impoundment to hold a foot of water over an area of an acre. (An Acre Foot). If that water is collected at high tide, and drained at low tide, then a four foot to seven foot drop should be available. A small water wheel could harness that stored water. I understand that a water wheel is only 30% efficient and a generator might be 80% efficient, so the electricity generated would be at most 24% of the potential.

If this question is of interest, please see if you can persuade one our AI friends to compute the total energy that might be collected from a tidal system such as this. Whatever the result may be, it would clearly work better in Maine.

(th)

tahanson43206 · Today 09:38:20

For SpaceNut re New Hampshire tidal power ...

Out of curiosity, I asked Google about tides at New Hampshire, and it turns out they are more interesting than further South.

AI Overview
In New Hampshire, typical Atlantic coastal tides have a mean range of 8 to 9 feet, and the highest high tides can exceed 12 feet during certain lunar phases. This is considerably larger than the tidal range found further south along the Atlantic coast.
Tide heights in New Hampshire
Mean tidal range: The average difference between high and low tide is between 8 and 9 feet.
Maximum tidal range: During spring tides, which occur around new and full moons, the tidal range is at its greatest. Forecasts show that high tides can reach well over 12 feet, while low tides can drop below 0 feet (measured against a standard reference point called Mean Lower Low Water or MLLW).
Maximum tidal height (Portsmouth): At Fort Point in Portsmouth, NH, high tides can reach up to 9.7 feet above MLLW on a typical day and as high as 12.7 feet during a spring tide.
Maximum tidal height (Hampton): In Hampton Harbor, high tides often exceed 12 feet during spring tide cycles.
Factors that influence tide heights
Geography: The funnel shape of the Gulf of Maine, which includes New Hampshire's coast, amplifies the tides.
Lunar phase: Tides are highest and lowest (spring tides) around the new and full moons and less extreme (neap tides) during the first and last quarter moons.
Weather conditions: Strong onshore winds, low atmospheric pressure, and coastal storms like nor'easters can increase the height of high tides, leading to coastal flooding.
Where is the highest tide? - NOAA's National Ocean Service
Jun 15, 2024 — On the U.S. East Coast, the largest tidal range occurs in Maine. The areas near Eastport and Cobscook Bay, Maine, e...
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NOAA's National Ocean Service (.gov)
Tide Times and Tide Chart for Hampton - Tide Forecast
Today's tide times for Hampton. The predicted tide times today on Wednesday 08 October 2025 for Hampton are: first high tide at 00...
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Tide Forecast
Tide Times and Tide Chart for Hampton - Tide Forecast
Table_title: Today's tide times for Hampton: Tuesday 07 October 2025 Table_content: header: | Tide | Time (EDT)& Date | Height | r...
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Tide Forecast

So it would appear there might be a (small) business opportunity for folks with property along the shore, or perhaps even upriver if tides reach very far inland.

This web site offers a calculator to convert acre-feet to kilograms. https://www.convertunits.com/from/acre+ … /kilogram+[water]#google_vignette

(th)

tahanson43206 · Today 09:52:49

This post is about using water wheels to generate electricity. I was surprised to find an estimate of 85% possible.

AI Overview
My experience with a traditional watermill driving a ...
A well-designed water wheel driving a generator can be quite efficient, with maximum efficiencies over 85% for overshot wheels, though overall efficiency depends on the type of wheel, the speed increase mechanism, and the generator's capability. Modern efficiency for water wheels can be maintained over a wider range of conditions than older models, making them cost-effective micro-hydro converters.
Factors influencing efficiency
Waterwheel type: The design of the water wheel itself is a major factor.
Overshot wheels: are very efficient, primarily using water weight for power, and can reach efficiencies of over 85%.
Breastshot wheels: fall in the 75% to 80% range.
Undershot wheels: rely on the water's kinetic energy and are generally less efficient, with one test showing 55-69% efficiency.
Energy conversions: Each time energy changes form, a small percentage of energy is lost.
In a direct hydropower system, the wheel directly drives machinery, leading to only one major energy conversion.
However, when a water wheel drives a generator, there is an added conversion of rotational energy into electricity, plus the mechanical energy losses in any gearbox, belts, or pulleys needed to increase the wheel's slow rotational speed to a suitable speed for the generator.
Gearbox/Speed Increase: Water wheels often turn slowly, so a gearbox or belt-and-pulley system is used to increase the speed for the generator. This adds another point of energy loss.
Generator efficiency: The generator's own efficiency in converting mechanical energy to electrical energy is crucial for the system's overall performance.
Overall considerations
Micro-hydro systems: Well-designed water wheel systems can be cost-effective micro-hydropower converters.
Modern vs. ancient: Modern water wheels are designed to maintain high efficiency across different flow rates and hydraulic conditions, a vast improvement over older installations.
Comparison to modern turbines: Large, modern water turbines can achieve mechanical efficiencies greater than 90%, according to Wikipedia.
While water wheels can be very efficient, they are less so than these specialized turbines, which are designed for much higher heads and power

(th)

tahanson43206 · Today 09:57:28

Are there any existing tidal energy systems that produce electricity?

Yes, there are several tidal power systems around the world that generate electricity. While the technology is still emerging compared to other renewable sources, both tidal barrage and tidal stream systems have been implemented successfully.
Examples of operational tidal power systems
Sihwa Lake Tidal Power Station (South Korea)
The Sihwa Lake plant is the largest tidal power installation in the world, with a capacity of 254 MW.
Completed in 2011, it utilizes an existing 12.7-kilometer-long seawall to generate electricity from incoming tides.
The project improved the water quality of a nearby polluted artificial lake by circulating seawater through its turbines.
Rance Tidal Power Station (France)
The world's first large-scale tidal power plant, it has been in operation since 1966.
Located on the Rance River estuary, its 24 turbines have an installed capacity of 240 MW.
The station uses bulb-shaped turbines that can generate power from both the incoming and outgoing tides, allowing for a more consistent energy supply.
MeyGen Tidal Power Project (Scotland)
MeyGen is the world's largest planned tidal stream array and is being developed in phases in the Pentland Firth.
Phase 1A began commercial operation in 2018 and includes four turbines that sit on the seabed, generating 6 MW.
The project takes advantage of the extremely fast-moving tidal currents in the area to generate predictable, renewable electricity.
Jiangxia Tidal Power Station (China)
Operational since 1985, this facility was one of the first tidal power stations in China.
It has an installed capacity of 3.2 MW and was a key early project in the development of tidal power technology.
Annapolis Royal Generating Station (Canada)
Located on the Bay of Fundy, this 20 MW tidal barrage station operated from 1984 to 2019.
It was built as a pilot project to test tidal power feasibility in the area, which experiences some of the highest tides in the world.
The plant was decommissioned due to mechanical and environmental issues.
Different types of tidal technology
Tidal barrages: These are dam-like structures built across tidal inlets. They capture and hold water during high tide, then release it through turbines to generate power during low tide.
Tidal stream generators: Similar to underwater wind turbines, these devices use the kinetic energy of flowing water to turn blades connected to a rotor and generator. They can be placed on the seabed in areas with strong tidal currents.
Tidal lagoons: This is a newer concept that involves creating circular retaining walls to capture tidal energy. The walls are embedded with turbines that can operate as the water fills and empties the artificial lagoon.

Apparently what I've described above (earlier posts) might be most similar to the Tidal lagoons concept...

(th)

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#1 2025-04-05 14:42:54

Business Opportunity Harness Tides on Earth and elsewhere

#2 2025-04-05 14:44:11

Re: Business Opportunity Harness Tides on Earth and elsewhere

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Re: Business Opportunity Harness Tides on Earth and elsewhere

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