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A surprising and unexpected conclusion: two major tech advances of the 21st century being sought now, controlled nuclear fusion and superluminal speeds, can both be accomplished by using a basic, earliest discovered principle of science.
Question: what is that basic principle of science?
Robert Clark
Last edited by RGClark (2025-04-29 07:41:39)
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Neither is anything I have seen in the science journals.
GW
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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It’s not in the science journals. It’s a surprising realization that occurred to me.
Who was the greatest scientist of antiquity? What was a key principle he first enunciated?
Bob Clark
Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):
“Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”
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For RGClark re #4
Your provocative question inspired me to ask Google's Gemini for it's contemplations. I had forgotten about Archimedes, while thinking of Aristotle and Euclid. Gemini gave a strong finish to Archimedes, while giving Aristotle credit for classification of living things.
Conversation with Gemini
Hi Gemini! Thanks again for your recent help with OpenFOAM, and for your help with many other questions. A retired math professor has asked a question to spark conversation, and I am interested in knowing your answer. My first answer is Socrates, but he is better known as a philosopher than as a scientist. Euclid was thought of as a mathematician. Aristotle might qualify as a scientist. After all, he is reported to have discovered buoyancy. The question asked was: Who was the greatest scientist of antiquity? What was a key principle he first enunciated?
That's a fantastic question to spark conversation! As you noted, defining "scientist" in the context of antiquity is tricky, as the formal scientific method hadn't been established. People we might call scientists were often mathematicians, philosophers, engineers, or physicians who used observation, logic, and sometimes rudimentary experimentation to understand the natural world.
You're right to consider Aristotle (384–322 BCE). He was incredibly influential and engaged in wide-ranging empirical investigations, particularly in biology (zoology, botany).
Claim to "Greatest": His emphasis on empirical observation and systematic classification was groundbreaking. He meticulously documented the anatomy, behavior, and habitats of hundreds of animal species. His works became the foundation of Western scientific thought for nearly two millennia.
Key Principle/Contribution: While not a single "principle" like a physical law, his foundational contribution was the systematic observation and classification of the natural world, particularly living organisms. He argued that knowledge begins with sensory experience (empiricism). (Regarding buoyancy, while Aristotle discussed objects floating or sinking based on their nature, the quantitative principle is credited to Archimedes).
However, arguably the strongest candidate for "greatest scientist of antiquity," especially if we emphasize mathematical rigor and physical principles, is Archimedes of Syracuse (c. 287–c. 212 BCE).
Claim to "Greatest": Archimedes was a brilliant mathematician, physicist, engineer, inventor, and astronomer. He applied mathematical principles rigorously to understand physical phenomena, designed ingenious mechanical devices, and laid the groundwork for calculus. His approach was closer to modern theoretical physics and engineering than Aristotle's more descriptive methods.
Key Principle He First Enunciated: The most famous is undoubtedly Archimedes' Principle (the principle of buoyancy). It states that a body wholly or partially immersed in a fluid experiences an upward buoyant force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced by the body. Legend has it he discovered this while bathing and ran through the streets shouting "Eureka!" ("I have found it!"). He also clearly enunciated the Law of the Lever ("Give me a place to stand, and I shall move the Earth").
Conclusion:
Aristotle could be considered the greatest for the sheer breadth of his empirical investigations, his development of logical reasoning, and his immense, long-lasting influence, particularly in biology and philosophy of science. His key contribution was establishing systematic observation and classification as a basis for understanding nature.
Archimedes is often favored if the criteria lean towards mathematical physics, engineering ingenuity, and the formulation of specific, lasting physical laws. His most famous enunciated principle is Archimedes' Principle (Buoyancy).
Both were monumental figures. Choosing the "greatest" depends heavily on what aspects of scientific inquiry one values most highly. Given the request for a specific "key principle," Archimedes often comes to mind more readily for his principle of buoyancy or the law of the lever.
Aristotle (384–322 bc): philosopher and scientist of ancient Greece - PMC
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pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Aristotle - Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy
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plato.stanford.edu
Aristotle on Learning: Ancient Wisdom for Modern Learners - Growth Engineering
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www.growthengineering.co.uk
Aristotle: Epistemology | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy
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iep.utm.eduThank you very much for your carefully reasoned reply! While I'm away, best wishes for similar success as you attempt to help all your other customers!
(th)
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Yes, it’s Archimedes. By the way when the question is asked who were the greatest intellects humanity has ever produced the answer commonly given is Archimedes, Newton, and Gauss.
The basic principle discovered by Archimedes, startling in its scope, is the principle of “mechanical advantage”. The idea is moving a small mass a large distance or high speed is equivalent to moving a large mass a small distance or low speed. Archimedes first enunciated this principle in regards to the lever. He famously said, “Give me a place to stand and I shall move the Earth!”
Nowadays, we consider it “trivial” and “obvious” because the energy is the same in both cases. You see it in many forms, levers, pulleys, gears, hydraulics, etc. But note the principle goes both ways: if you want to achieve high speed you can do it by moving a large mass low speed.
Then in regards fusion and superluminal speeds you translate the known techniques of producing large mass at low speed into moving small mass at (extremely) high speed.
I just thought it stunning such a simple principle discovered millennia ago could solve the deepest questions of 21st century physics.
Robert Clark
Last edited by RGClark (2025-05-01 06:43:25)
Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):
“Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”
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This topic combines two ideas that are not normally associated.
Quantum pairing is thought to be superluminal so it would be interesting to see if anyone can find evidence supporting that conjecture.
Fusion is the focus of multiple topics already, but in ** this ** topic the idea of mechanical advantage is available if anyone would care to explore it.
Fusion is present in abundance in the Universe. Every instance known to date is gravity mediated fusion.
(th)
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This topic combines two ideas that are not normally associated.
Quantum pairing is thought to be superluminal so it would be interesting to see if anyone can find evidence supporting that conjecture.
Fusion is the focus of multiple topics already, but in ** this ** topic the idea of mechanical advantage is available if anyone would care to explore it.
Fusion is present in abundance in the Universe. Every instance known to date is gravity mediated fusion.
(th)
I hadn’t hear of quantum pairing. What is it?
Bob Clark
Old Space rule of acquisition (with a nod to Star Trek - the Next Generation):
“Anything worth doing is worth doing for a billion dollars.”
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For RGClark re #8
Terrific question! Terraformer started a topic on this, and you are welcome to contribute to it.
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6829
If you were not aware of this, this is a great opportunity to investigate, and contribute to the topic if you are so inspired.
This side branch of quantum mechanics is receiving intense investment due to the needs of Nation States to develop secure communication. Instant communication across light years would be a nice bonus.
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