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I hear they only planned for 90 days. Perhaps they also expected gusts of wind to clean the Rover as it did Perseverance, Opportunity, Spirit, Curiosity. They plan to check under the ground for water-ice and detection of permafrost in Utopia Planitia another planned mission might bring a 3-D printer to use material to build / print new objects although that might be a Chang'e Moon mission using lunar regolith, its difficult to say if China will chose one as priority over the other, the Mars or Moon...or Maybe they have their eye on both worlds.
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wow you last visited and posted in 2015, please do not wait so long...
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Hi SpaceNut
I think something happened to the search at google and other sites as this forum site rarely shows in searchlinks, I'm not sure if that's a mistake on their side but now I use other alternative search engines these days trying to get away from BigTech censorship. I also had the older offline forum site on bookmark, its possible you lost a lot of old users when the older ikon board went down.
There are rumors online on social media sites like youtube twitter the Mars rover - Zhurong will communicate with either Mars Express or one of the NASA orbiters. I'm not sure if this is true or just a rumor about linking to to other Orbiters, but some of the media accounts seemed to link to aircraft industry and ESA. There are a lot of clips from Chinese media now being translated and mirrored on other online accounts. A site Spacenews has a report on the Rover.
https://spacenews.com/chinas-zhurong-ma … -planitia/
'Zhurong is equipped with six science payloads, including a laser-induced breakdown spectroscopy instrument for analysing surface elements and minerals, panoramic and multispectral imagers, a climate station, magnetometer and a ground-penetrating radar.
It aims to return data on potential water-ice deposits, weather, topography and geology, complementing science carried out by missions from other space agencies.'
There is some political thing at play, China could get could PR for the landing but China spacenews isnt on the media of the West that much, China is also not on the ISS, there is an exclusion policy by the Congress and Senate and exceptions can and have been granted by Congress on a case-by-case basis.
Also there is a social media account following the Rover
https://twitter.com/MarsZhurong/status/ … 7317857283
' Landing coordinates confirmed. 109.9E, 25.1N. '
The rumors I read are bandlink it might be ok slow telemetry but not for images yet...
another Account called C Yang claims the orbiter will change orbit and a more high speed bps transmission will be established
bandwith and high speed comms seems to always be some kind of issue with these missions to the outer planets
Maybe future concepts like Laser Communication or other forms of Transmission will be used by the Space Agencies of the Future?
U.S. senator: China landing on Mars a reminder ‘we don’t own space anymore’
https://sciencemetro.com
https://www.earthspacehumanity.com
As China and more players begin to deploy assets in space, King said the United States should push for a global agreement on norms of behavior. “It’s in everybody’s interest,” he said. “Ships pass each other on the right. We need standards so we don’t have chaos.”
There is also news that China now Considers Voyager-like Mission to Neptune or to go out to the Heliosphere or KBO objects like New Horizon.
I think the news media calls it by the IHP name given at a science conference or calls it 'Interstellar Express' mission.
EDIT...
i see you already posted a news item on the link up in the other thread so its probably a true story
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-05-17 05:03:26)
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The Chinese mission went to L point 1. Lagrange points are positions in space where objects sent there tend to stay put. At Lagrange points, the gravitational pull of two large masses precisely equals the centripetal force required for a small object to move with them. Sun–Earth L1 is suited for making observations of the Sun–Earth system, Sun–Earth L2 is a good spot for space-based observatories, especially helpful for infrared astronomy and observations of the cosmic microwave background. The three collinear Lagrange points (L1, L2, L3) were discovered by Leonhard Euler a few years before Joseph-Louis Lagrange discovered the remaining two L4 and L5. The Planet Mars, Saturn's moon Tethys and Neptune have Natural objects at Lagrange points.
China's moon-sampling Chang'e 5 probe beams home eerie images from deep space
https://www.space.com/china-chang-e-5-m … ace-images
Chinese scientists have said that Chang'e 5 may head to new targets after completing its tests at Sun-Earth Lagrange point 1.
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For Mars_B4_Moon re #29
Thank you for the link to the article about the continuing voyage of Chang'e 5 and particularly the L1 visit!
I was happy to discover that the Wikipedia editors are on top of this news:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_o … nge_points
Chang'e is included in the list of probes at or planned for L1
(th)
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I suspect Chinese are already testing Mars tech on the Moon. Here is some of the coverage of their Lunar mission. http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9814 Inside their Moon Rover they had a Lunar Micro Ecosystem, a kind of Biodome which tested if life or any kind of growth could exist on the Moon they tested cottonseed, potato, rapeseed, as well as fruit fly eggs. There was plant life growing from the seeds but eventually they were destroyed by the Lunar Elements long durations of hot days and deep colds could risk potential future missions but China did learn something interesting from this experiment.
Chang'e 3 was a Lunar Rover mission, the mission might still be Ongoing as the Lander might still be active, the Robot Rover itself was landed on the Moon in February 2014 it was designed to oeprate for 3 months and ceased to transmit data a little after one year.
Chang'e-4 was the Lunar farside landing mission, the Chang'e 4 was originally built as a backup for Chang'e 3 ...I'm wonder did they also build a back up for their Mars missions?
China's lunar rover on far side of the moon, rolls up to crater's edge.
https://hooktube.com/watch?v=RuEkfKGzFUY
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=RuEkfKGzFUY
China might be growing stuff on the Moon but Space farming has been studied on MIR and the Shuttle and ISS, it is usually a study of plant growth, sometimes insects or the cultivation of crops for food and other materials in space. The Mars Desert Research Station also study this area of science back on our planet Earth.
https://www.popsci.com/military-aviatio … migration/
Hong Kong PolyU professor unveils 'Mars Camera'
http://www.ecns.cn/video/2021-06-04/det … 1129.shtml
This "unimpressive" camera is called "Mars Landing Surveillance Camera" ("Mars Camera").
"Don't look down upon it," said Professor Yung Kai-leung of the Hong Kong Polytechnic University (PolyU), who led the research.
China's first Mars probe Tianwen-1 carrying the Zhurong rover landed on the Red Planet on May 15.
The "Mars Camera" plays the role of an eye to monitor the landing and surrounding environment on the Mars surface.
The Mars Camera is light in weight (around 390g) yet strong and durable enough to withstand the extreme temperature differences of about 150 degrees Celsius experienced during the nine-month journey between Earth and Mars, and a huge impact shock of 6,200G, i.e., 6,200 times the force of Earth's gravity.
Professor Yung has collaborated with the China Academy of Space Technology in deep space exploration for years, developing a "Camera Pointing System" for Chang'e 3 in 2013 and for the historic landing of Chang'e 4 on the far side of the moon in 2019, and the "Surface Sampling and Packing System" for Chang'e 5, China's first lunar sample return mission.
He also mentions a MSR mission in the vid
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-06-05 14:13:12)
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Can the U.S. and China Cooperate in Space?
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti … -in-space/
Joe Biden urged to work WITH China as NASA warns Xi and Putin threaten 'new space race'
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/ … tation-scn
China embarks on a decade of human space exploration
https://physicsworld.com/a/china-embark … ploration/
The worrisome Chinese space programme
https://www.thestatesman.com/supplement … 89622.html
from twitter feeds
China's space ambitions
https://twitter.com/TheMarsSociety/stat … 4328426501
- rough translation -
The second Moon Rabbit Rover, Chang'e is alive, photo from the lander of the lunar rover
https://twitter.com/SegerYu/status/1423510136308465666
CNSA CLEP recently released new colored photos taken by #Yutu2 Lunar rover. Scientific data of Chang’e lunar exploration project are available to the public at https://moon.bao.ac.cn Yutu2 lunar rover has been working on the far side of the moon for more than 900 days.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 2216053760
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1420987970786578434
Zhurong update (Sol 75): the rover has continued south after investigating a dune south of the parachute+backshell. Drivers now planning a route through the complex and rock-strewn Martian terrain below. Zhurong has covered 708 metres as of July 30.
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1424288012477796354
Chinese doing new type of exercise workout on their space station
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2021-08-08 11:42:43)
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A lot of people believe China will again launch nuclear power into space, nobody is really sure in news and social media what they are going to do but there are discussion they could perhaps design a 'Reactor' in space to power a site or maybe they want a 'Space-Tug idea.
China's Tianwen-1 Mars Orbiter Snaps Breathtaking Space Selfies With Red Planet As A Backdrop
https://hothardware.com/news/tianwen-1- … red-planet
The Chinese call on nuclear-armed nations to focus on AI and space as well...'Beijing's call for greater cooperation may be met with skepticism'
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2022/ … -ai-space/
China's 'Artificial Sun' Has Just Hit a New Nuclear Fusion Milestone
https://interestingengineering.com/chin … -milestone
4 key missions in 2022 include finishing core of space station, sea rocket launches
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science … shing-core
China plans missions to moon's south pole
https://www.moondaily.com/reports/China … e_999.html
'China has approved the fourth phase of its lunar exploration program, including a basic model of a research station built on the moon over the coming decade, according to the China National Space Administration.'
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-01-05 11:59:59)
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China’s first Mars rover reveals how weather and ancient water changed the surface of the largest impact basin on Mars.
https://www.space.com/china-zhurong-rov … mars-rocks
Researchers found grooves and etchings on rocks around Zhurong's landing site.
"The rock textures observed at the site thus far may indicate both the presence of physical weathering – for example, impact sputtering, wind erosion and potential freeze–thaw weathering – and aqueous interactions involving salt and brine," the authors said in the paper, adding that the site offers opportunities for follow-up investigations.
"These rock and soil targets provide excellent opportunities to peek into the aqueous history and climate evolution of the northern lowlands, and shed light on the habitability evolution of Mars."
Kirsten Siebach, an assistant professor at the Rice University Department of Earth, Environmental, and Planetary Sciences, agrees with the assessment by the Chinese team.
"It looks like there's surface evidence for something like a contraction-expansion process, which can be from brine or a freeze/thaw effect or really significant temperature changes," she told Space.com. "That causes the rocks to kind of flake apart. This is consistent with what we've seen at other landing sites on Mars where the rocks are exposed differently than on Earth."
Chemistry data would help provide more information on what has been going on in the area. Zhurong has a Laser Induced Breakdown Spectroscopy (LIBS) instrument which could fire its laser to create a tiny amount of plasma from the target and analyze its composition. The new paper does not make use of any LIBS data, nor states if it was collected from the rock specimens...
"By having 9 to 10 landing sites across the surface of Mars, we're starting to get a better sense for what processes are relatively or seem to be global," Siebach said.
Siebach notes that the paper contains a lot of valuable information on the physics of the soil and how the ground reacts to the rover driving over it and its landing equipment. "This is actually really important if you want to land there with humans."
China is planning a Mars sample return mission, potentially launching in 2028, but has not yet released information on candidate landing sites.
NASA’s Viking 2 lander set down in northern Utopia Planitia in 1976 among numerous rocks, while Zhurong is operating in much less complicated terrain.
Zhurong has already completed its primary mission of 90 sols. But the rover is continuing its way to the south of its landing site, collecting data as it goes.
Papers on TW-1 and Zhurong in its latest issue but most papers are in Chinese
https://www.sciengine.com/publisher/scp … lug=browse
What it sounds like
sound recordings from Mars rover
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/video/china … /or3jwx7ix
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-03-12 04:50:55)
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China to launch Tianwen 2 asteroid-sampling mission in 2025
https://www.space.com/china-tianwen2-as … 025-launch
Ultra high-resolution images of moon surface by Chang’e 5.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 6891115520
Crater Xu Guangqi and Statio Tianchuan - the landing site, viewed from LCAM during obstacle avoidance maneuvers in the Approach Stage
https://twitter.com/TheElegant055/statu … 5275643905
Change5 - Interaction between residual plumes of the lander's YF-36 7500 N main engine and the lunar surface viewed from LCAM during the free-falling stage
https://twitter.com/TheElegant055/statu … 0045859840
The Rover Zhurong is taking damage or dust from the elements of Mars? The Rover's solar arrays have been tilted up to increase sun exposure and the rover's activities scaled back to preserve power...dust issues?
it has entered a hibernation mode and expected to come out of it in December?
https://twitter.com/PDChina/status/1527469160808058882
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/upO6NTh-AZ7oNLjv0BmNdw
rough translation -
'In order to safely survive extreme weather conditions such as the cold winter of Mars and sandstorms, the "Zhurong" rover has designed a mode of operation such as autonomous hibernation' ' Almost 1 year after landing on Mars, Mars runs near perihelion, the direct sun is in the southern hemisphere, the northern hemisphere had just entered the summer and while now the southern hemisphere has now entered the winter.'
'It will need to survive extreme weather conditions such as the cold winter of Mars and sandstorms'
Map of Mars around Zhurong Mars rover landing spot by Tianwen1 Mars orbiter
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 9118747648
China's Mars rover Zhurong goes dormant to survive
https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-05-20/C … index.html
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-05-21 15:46:25)
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Hydroxl OH
China’s lunar lander finds evidence of native water on moon
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/955945
Our results show the hydroxyl contents of lunar soils in Chang’E-5 landing site are with a mean value of 28.5 ppm, which is on the weak end of lunar hydration features. This is consistent with the predictions from remote sensing and ground-based telescopic data. Laboratory analysis of the Chang’E-5 returned samples also provide critical clues to the possible sources of these hydroxyl contents.
China's lunar lander finds evidence of native water on moon
https://phys.org/news/2022-06-china-lun … ative.html
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-06-14 19:20:34)
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Phobos seen by orbiting Tianwen-1 satellite (subtitles)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_-Q62Q_eNs
pic
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/ziktrq8LcH-g065k3TcYRQ
The idea of Neptune orbiter mission powered by suggests nuclear technology is a path China's space industry.
China to put large telescope in orbit next year
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Chin … r_999.html
China plans to launch a large space telescope next year to fly alongside the Tiangong space station, according to the China Academy of Launch Vehicle Technology.
The academy said a Long March 5B heavy-lift carrier rocket will deploy the Xuntian space telescope in a low-Earth orbit similar to the track of the Tiangong station as they both circle Earth. The telescope will carry out deep-space observation and research in the frontier fields of science, it said.
The academy is the designer and builder of the Long March 5B, the most powerful Chinese rocket when it comes to carrying capacity for low-Earth orbit. The rocket is central to China's space station program because it is now the only Chinese launch vehicle capable of carrying large space station parts into orbit.
Chinese language article
Images of Zhurong from orbit & other orbital views, plus an image of Perseverance during its last Mars sampling operation
https://news.sina.com.cn/c/2022-03-24/d … 1404.shtml
Lunar Maps Exploration the Chinese Moon Rover & Chang'e program
(Chinese language with pics)
https://www.hljtv.com/news/folder9/2022 … 8897.shtml
Lots of Chinese names on Mars now, Names Approved for Mars: 22 Feature Names Near the Tianwen-1 Landing Site
https://astrogeology.usgs.gov/news/nome … nding-site
There is still some speculation about their future plans, some info has gone public with press releases but some are unsure what the next missions will be, for example there could be a test of 3D printing technology or Chang'e-8 switch something from a previous or future mission, from a testbed of tech to became a unmanned lunar base.
Journalists might already be 'mixing up' missions.
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Insights Into Utopia Basin Revealed By Mars Rover Zhurong
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Xuntian/CSST space telescope will be launched by the end of 2024 at the earliest, according to project scientist Liu Chao in a seminar at Shanghai Planetarium.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 2143633408
China's Chang'e 5 has been in a DRO for over a year now and it continues to emit a strong & stable signal on X-band.
https://twitter.com/coastal8049/status/ … 9495356417
10m-level propellant tank prototype for CZ9
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 6956456960
China has made a breakthrough in plans to acquire capability for nuclear power generation in space. The 801 institute under the 6th Academy of CASC has developed closed Brayton cycle thermoelectric generator technology. US & Russia have this tech already
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1634517124520484864
Tianwen-2 mission officially approved! It’s planned to return sample from the near-earth asteroid 2016 HO3 back to earth, and also go to the main belt comet 311P for exploration.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 8721396736
,
https://m.weibo.cn/status/4874910181365958
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The IHP is an idea for a Voyager-like mission to the outer solar system, there are proposals for joint missions to Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and a Callisto mission, the Tianwen-3 is China’s Mars sample return.
Arab muslims were working with NASA and Japan but then wanted to join with Chinese, it was blocking as potential violation of ITAR (International Traffic in Arms Regulations).
China loses UAE as partner for Chang’e-7 lunar south pole mission
https://spacenews.com/china-loses-uae-a … e-mission/
Hainan commercial launch site under construction
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 1991602176
Xuntian is a planned Chinese Survey Space Telescope that will briefly join the Tiangong space station.
https://www.space.com/china-hubble-clas … ce-station
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Mix of methane and oxygen that can be used to power spacecraft on Mars?
hot fire and gimbal test of their 70tf-class methalox engine Longyun
https://twitter.com/CNSpaceflight/statu … 2627329024
Methalox race to orbit klaxon: Landspace has completed final assembly of the second Zhuque-2 rocket
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The new engine test stand in Tongchuan, Shaanxi, constructed by CASC, has been finished. The facility is the largest in Asia and is intended to aid in the advancement of multiple high-thrust kerolox engines including YF-130, YF-100K, YF-135.
https://twitter.com/CNSAWatcher/status/ … 9582692352
Water found in moon samples from China mission
https://www.foxnews.com/science/water-f … na-mission
Space official calls for China to seize crucial opportunity to establish lunar infrastructure
https://spacenews.com/space-official-ca … structure/
CAS Space has conducted VTVL tests with a small demonstrator. This uses jet engines rather than rocket engines and is for testing the GNC etc for ultimate goal of recovering rocket first stages.
https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/1643250489818062848
Hainan Wenchang commercial launch tower 1 is growing fast
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China's Mars Rover Finds Recent Evidence of Water Near the Equator
https://www.universetoday.com/161245/ch … e-equator/
China’s Mars Rover Likely Felled By Sand and Dust
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China to launch 1st-ever sample return mission to moon's far side in 2024
https://www.space.com/china-moon-far-si … ssion-2024
China joins US and Europe in considering 3D-printed Moon bases
https://www.theregister.com/2023/04/25/ … ting_moon/
Satellite imagery taken on 2023-05-24 provides an overview of Wenchang Space Launch Site in China.
https://twitter.com/Harry__Stranger/sta … 4474657792
Transportation of commercial space company LandSpace’s Zhuque-2 Y2 LOX/CH4 methane rocket from Jiaxing, Zhejiang to Jiuquan, Gansu in May. If successful, it will become world’s first methane fuel rocket ever entering orbit.
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An update on access to Chang'e-5 samples by NASA-funded researchers. Glaze said several US investigators were selected for samples; NASA needs to get in touch with them to work out the required governmental agreements.
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1 … 9076896871
first on-site evidence of water on moon’s surface
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science … ence-water
They already shared Moon samples with France and with Russia
A new type of Basalt, higher than expected Titanium, Water and Prescence of Rare Earth Minerals
video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_1kwlXzfl8
The Chang’e-5 (CE-5) mission, the first return of lunar samples to Earth since the Apollo and Luna missions more than 44 years ago, landed on one of the youngest mare basalt units (1.0-3.0 Ga, based on superposed crater counts), located at middle latitude (~43°N) far from previous landing sites. On December 17, 2020, the sample capsule returned to Earth with 1731 grams of lunar soil collected from the upper few centimeters of the surface and from an ~1 meter-long core drilled into the lunar regolith.
https://www.the-innovation.org/geoscien … 23.100014/
This paper summarizes the main discoveries of the CE-5 samples allocated since July 12, 2021, and measured with state-of-the-art analytical techniques. Physical property studies indicate that the CE-5 soil is mature, with a peak particle size of ~50 µm (in volume), and a particle size distribution similar to the sub-mature and mature Apollo lunar soils (<1 cm). The soil sample contains basalt and mineral fragments, impact melt breccia, agglutinates, and glasses. The basalt fragments can be divided into several petrographic types, likely crystallized from the same lava flow at different depths and cooling rates. The CE-5 basalt Pb/Pb SIMS analyses yielded a crystallization age of 2.030 ± 0.004 Ga, extending the duration of lunar volcanic activity by ~1.0~0.8 Ga. This age, in turn, has helped to calibrate the widely applied lunar crater chronology model. The isotopic ratios of Pb, Nd and Sr indicate that the contribution of a KREEP component in forming CE-5 basalt is limited (<0.5%), excluding high concentrations of heat-producing radioactive elements in their mantle source. The isotope analyses of H, Cl, and S reveal that the mantle source is dry, which cannot account for the prolonged volcanism observed in the CE-5 landing region. A possible explanation is that the CE-5 mantle source contains enhanced clinopyroxene-ilmenite cumulate (~20%), which reduces the melting temperature by ~80°C. The REE-, FeO-enrichment of the CE-5 basalt can be attributed to a low degree of partial melting followed by extensive fractional crystallization. The CE-5 soil has also recorded a two-billion-year history of meteorite impact and solar wind irradiation. A few exotic fragments have been recognized (some with high-pressure silica phases) and are likely ejected from distant lunar highlands. The U-Pb dating of impact glass beads reveals at least 17 main impact events. New space weathering effects, especially the formation of Fe3+, have been found. In situ reflectance spectra and laboratory analyses of CE-5 soil show the presence of water (in the form of H, OH, and/or H2O). The solar wind hydrogen was implanted and concentrated in the outermost rims (<100 nm) of soil grains, with a temperature (hence latitude)-dependent maximum water concentration of up to ~2 wt%.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-04 13:31:57)
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China’s Queqiao-2 relay satellite ready to support lunar far side sample mission
https://spacenews.com/chinas-queqiao-2- … e-mission/
China Moon Relay Satellite: Testing Confirms Readiness for Future Lunar Lander Missions (Updated: New Photos)
https://www.leonarddavid.com/china-moon … -missions/
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-04-13 01:45:18)
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a test for MSR?
China Successfully Lands Probe on the Moon's Far Side, Starts Collecting Samples
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As a follow up to the post by Mars_B4_Moon #47...
Chinese lunar probe returns to Earth with world’s first samples from the far side of the moon
Science Jun 25, 2024 1:49 PM EST
BANGKOK (AP) — China’s Chang’e 6 probe returned on Earth with rock and soil samples from the little-explored far side of the moon in a global first.The probe landed in the Inner Mongolian region in northern China on Tuesday afternoon.
This success means the Chinese now have experience with a heat shield that survived re-entry from an escape velocity trajectory.
Meanwhile, the Americans have tried to save money making heat shields for Lunar return. The Americans had a perfectly good heat shield design that was used with success for all the Apollo missions. However, a crop of new, young Americans thought they could discard the example from Apollo, and come up with an alternative that was supposed to save money.
The Chinese may well have visited the Smithsonian exhibit of an Apollo space craft to see what a successful heat shield design looks like.
Update: I just re-read this topic from the top.... Mars_B4_Moon made substantial contributions while he was active.
This topic provides a sense of the Chinese efforts over time, thanks to the contributions by multiple NewMars members.
However, I saw ** no ** reference to their successful heat shield design.
(th)
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NASA's mistake was not using bonded tiles of Avcoat in preference to hand-gunning the Avcoat into fiberglass hex glued to the capsule airframe! Bonded tiles work quite well. We've already seen that with Space Shuttle and X-37B. And now SpaceX's Starship. Doesn't matter whether the tiles are refractive or ablative; if your bonding scheme and your gap filler scheme work, you can pretty much do bonded tiles of any type desired.
NASA mistake 1: deleting the reinforcing hex from the Avcoat tiles they made. The fiberglass hex glass fibers tied the char to the virgin beneath more strongly, against any forces attempting to remove that char. Deleting it makes it much easier to lose chunks of char, simple as that! They were thinking inside the box of only hand-gun or not. They failed to consider that extrusion presses could force the Avcoat into hex cores without any hand-gunning! Pushing goo where you want it to go with an extrusion press, is a very old technology in the plastics industry. It is NOT new technology! It applies to ANY goo, even Avcoat. But you need to talk to some plastics guys to get yourself set up to do it. Use the kinds of presses they use.
NASA mistake 2: they wanted to use ultrasound to do QC inspections. But it was unreliable at the lower Avcoat density used in the first Orion flight test EFT-1. So they densified the virgin Avcoat for Artemis-1, and ultrasound was reliable for inspection. But the denser Avcoat was less permeable to gas percolation through the char, lending credence to the theory that gas pressure in the material blew off chunks of char on the second Orion test Artemis-1. Denser Avcoat did not fly on EFT-1, nor did it fly on Apollo! Both of those used Avcoat at lower density (I presume a higher microballoon content) hand-gunned into hex cores bonded to the capsule airframe. They did not think outside the box of only considering ultrasound! X-ray would likely have worked at any Avcoat density, although it is not as convenient as a hand-held ultrasound device. X-ray worked just fine inspecting solid propellant inside steel cases, in the tactical-size solid rocket industry, decades ago. It was a part of how we at the old McGregor plant routinely achieved 1-in-a-million failure rates with solid motors!
NASA mistake 3: for Artemis 1, they added a skip-type reentry, where there was a cooldown interval between two intense heating pulses. This increased range covered during entry by around a factor of 2, something they wanted to do. Such was NOT flown on EFT-1 Orion, or at any time during Apollo! Artemis-1 was the first such skip entry ever flown with capsules. Maybe they had no experience to guide them, but we in the solid rocket and ramjet industries had encountered the char embrittlement effects of cooldown decades ago! Embrittlement makes the char material more fragile, and therefore more susceptible to damage or removal by whatever forces get applied to it, during any re-heating. The thinking box here was only considering NASA experience, not other related industries that also use ablatives.
NASA has pretty much decided to fly the Artemis-2 mission with the pre-existing Artemis-1-type heat shield "as-is". But they have deleted the skip from the reentry trajectory, which is a step in the right direction. Their subscale ground tests say this will work, after duplicating the types of failures seen on the Artemis-1 entry. We will see what the real truth is, when it actually flies. I do think the risk of a fatal burn-through is rather low, but I am also sure that it is not as close to zero as it should be, and could be, if the heat shield were replaced. Yet, in experimental flight testing (and Artemis-2 is an experimental flight test, make NO mistake about that), risks like this are accepted every day. I just hope the odds pan out right, for the crew's sake.
GW
Last edited by GW Johnson (2024-12-09 17:25:32)
GW Johnson
McGregor, Texas
"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew, especially one dead from a bad management decision"
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