Architecture

tahanson43206 · 2020-07-01 07:59:57

This new topic in Science, Technology and Astronomy is offered to provide a focus for both new concepts by members, and review of the work of others.

The scope is intended to be wide.

Work done to develop structures or systems for Mars can (very likely) be adapted for Earth or other locations in the Solar System.

SearchTerm:Architecture

(th)

Calliban · 2020-07-02 04:15:05

I have always been intrigued by the idea of a pressure dome made from entirely compressive members. The dome itself would be constructed from hexagonal concrete blocks. At the top, would sit a key stone, upon which we would construct a tall tower of rock and sand, cemented together using some sort of binding agent - would ice be sufficient?

The idea is that the tower is a counterweight against the internal pressure of the dome. To resist horizontal forces imposed upon the concrete blocks by the air pressure within; we are basically relying upon static friction between the blocks. The counterweight would be carefully loaded to allow sufficient static friction to hold the blocks together, without exceeding their compressive strength.

The hexagonal blocks used to produce the dome would have circular holes in the middle. Hemispherical glass windows would be mounted on the inside and would let light into the structure. I have often wondered if such a structure could be made from rammed soil, but I suspect compressive strength would be too low.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-07-02 04:16:07)

tahanson43206 · 2020-07-02 06:57:49

For Calliban re #2

Thank you for giving this new topic a resounding start!

This post is reserved for an image of your design. It is possible SpaceNut will find examples and display them in a close following post.

It should be possible to develop a design study using any of the 3D design tools available to forum readers world wide.

The starting element could be a sphere. The design software I am most familiar with use triangles as the basic element. Hexagons are (of course) combinations of triangles.

In thinking about the design, it crossed my mind briefly to consider a geodesic dome, but those are designed of longitudinal compression elements, and the filler material is not load bearing. Furthermore, a traditional geodesic dome is NOT designed to withstand internal pressure, as is a defining characteristic of your proposal.

It would be good to see additions to this topic by members who have knowledge of and experience with materials which might be considered for this application. I would very much like to see detailed explanations of how (currently known) Mars regolith material might be fashioned into the hexagons Calliban has described. A mold could be designed to make all the hexagons so they will have precisely the camber needed to achieve the desired dome shape.

As an aside ... Recently I watched a documentary on the work of an Italian architect who accepted the challenge of building a dome for a cathedral, when the cathedral itself had been constructed, and no one knew how to build such a large unsupported dome. The architect designed a brickwork in such a way that the walls were self supporting, so the bricks could be laid all the way to the peak without need of a wooden brace underneath.

To oversimplify (easy because I barely understand it) the bricks were laid in accordance with the drawing tight of guide ropes to determine the exact angle of the tops of the bricks as they were laid, course by course. A laser beam would be the modern equivalent technology.

If this ancient technique were adapted for the Mars dome, it might be possible to computer design the hexagonal pieces so they too could be laid without need for a temporary construction support. The Italian architect was working ONLY with gravity pulling down. The design Calliban describes would ** also ** be dealing with compression forces acting against gravity.

SearchTerm:ImagePendingHexagonDome

Edit#1: Here are two images for Calliban's concept, to try to move the topic a bit. These are from Blender, set to Level 3 (3 subdivisions).

At the moment, I have no idea what that means. Blender offers spheres defined with squares (UV style) or with triangles (icosphere).

According to a brief summary I found, the square form looks smoother at small density, but the icosphere form looks better as the number of subdivisions are increased (whatever those are).

Edit#2: Calliban, as I study the images above, it occurs to me that your idea of windows mixed with solid material might be realized if some of the triangles were made of transparent material. I'm hoping members of the forum with the appropriate knowledge and experience can suggest material capable of withstanding the various loads that Calliban's concept would experience.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2020-07-02 10:25:01)

tahanson43206 · 2020-09-21 17:59:57

This post is offered to provide an anchor for a member of the forum who might wish to design aesthetically pleasing structures along the lines of cathedrals on Earth. The original purpose of the cathedral art form was to express religious sensibilities, but as the centuries have rolled the structures have become icons of architecture in its finest form.

The use of an arch to support Martian regolith for radiation protection has come up many times in this forum, and it came up again very recently in posts by Calliban in Void's Above Under Both topic. While the practical minded might pass on the cathedral art form for many reasons, I am betting there are some who will wish to re-create the vistas made possible by towering arches.

Such structures will need solid bedrock for foundation.

A quick scan (using Google) revealed hints that bedrock is not far from the surface in much of Mars.

SearchTerm:Cathedral
SearchTerm:ArchGothic

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tahanson43206 · 2022-08-18 13:07:24

This post is about a suggestion/thought for application entirely on Earth, although it might have application elsewhere in the Solar System.

The issue I am attempting to address is the loss of the use of land by native peoples in Louisiana.

A report on an attempt to relocate a community appeared in news feeds recently. The attempt was an experiment by an agency of the US Government.

As often happens with such experiments, the results were not long lasting.

There are populations on Earth who live their entire lives on water. Usually their accommodations are small boats, arranged in such a way as to permit access to land when it is available.

If I get time and am sufficiently motivated, I will try to make a Blender or Fusion 360 drawing, but for now, following the example of Void, here is a word picture.

***
Louisiana Pole House

The structure I have in mind would be a ring shaped living quarters, riding on water but able to latch to a vertical pipe sunk into the ground under the habitat.

The pipe would be large enough to withstand the force of hurricanes, tides and even the occasional tsunami, and it would be set deep enough to avoid forces that would tilt it one way or the other.

The pipe itself would be a storage location for fresh water, which would arrive with rains when they occur, or which is generated using solar power applied to the salt water around the habitat.

In the event of extreme weather, the habitat ring would rise on the pole, and ratchets would insure the habitat remains at whatever elevation waves might lift it.

After extreme weather has abated, the habitat can be gently let back down to whatever elevation is available.

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Void · 2022-08-19 09:39:33

That is a pretty good adaptation it seems to me.

Done.

tahanson43206 · 2022-08-19 11:34:08

For Void ... re #6

A word of praise from a Master Creative will go a long way in NewMars Forum!

For SpaceNut ... if you have time, please find images of towers with rotating restaurants, such as the tower on the waterfront in Toronto, which I've had the opportunity to visit, and similar ones in other cities.

While I did not expect the living quarters to be at the top of the tower except in the most extreme weather, the images might stimulate the thinking of New Mars members to design less expensive but weather resistant living accommodations that will be needed world wide in the decades ahead.

Here is an image that Google found:

television-tower-munich-olympic-tower-television-towers-munichs-olympic-towers-image455916594.html

The image does not show up automatically, as I had hoped.

Update later: Here is an Imgur.com link:

The part of this design I'm thinking about is the top section, where the restaurant is secured to a cylindrical structure.

A tsunami and hurricane resistant residence would be mounted above the waves during storms, and able to drop down towards the surface in nice weather.

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tahanson43206 · 2022-10-04 17:33:07

A recent post by Mars_B4_Moon shows a video of the storm surge at Fort Myers, Florida...

http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 24#p201624

This post is offered to try to encourage NewMars members to think about an architecture that might be able to protect the home that washed away in the video.

I had imagined (before seeing the video) that a clamshell might be able to fold over a home to protect it from wind, rain or even a flood.

Now I'm less sure... The clamshell could rotate to fold over the house, but it would need to have provision to keep air pressure inside the dome sufficient to keep water out at the bottom.

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tahanson43206 · 2022-10-18 08:03:01

The article at the link below ** may ** be of interest to folks planning for Mars or other off-Earth locations, as well as folks right here on Earth.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/realest … af#image=6

There may be a shorter link to access the story.

What caught my eye was the exterior material applied to the traditional square volumes inside. That exterior material would also serve for radiation shielding on Mars.

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tahanson43206 · 2024-04-26 09:50:18

The article at the link below is about Amsterdam and addition of "sponge farms" on top of flat buildings.

The change of roof design is intended to help deal with increased water intake due to climate change. New buildings are purpose built to support the additional weight of a system, and some older buildings can be retrofitted. The "sponge" roofs are drained ahead of storms, so storm runoff is reduced after the storm, because the drained roof structures refill.

https://www.wired.com/story/blue-green- … wtab-en-us

Green Roofs Are Great. Blue-Green Roofs Are Even Better
Amsterdam is experimenting with roofs that not only grow plants but capture water for a building’s residents. Welcome to the squeezable sponge city of tomorrow.

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Terraformer · 2024-04-26 16:24:04

I've suggested before that buildings on Luna will be hexagonal, with a circular pressure vessel in between two hexagon walls filled with radiation shielding. That way they can expand the way cities and buildings expand, with each new block added on to the existing complex.

Regarding Terran architecture, there are certain rules to follow for sure. Such as "he who builds in wood builds a shack" (Stewart Brand, How Buildings Learn). If you want something low maintenance, or that can withstand extreme weather, wood is not it.

How Buildings Learn is available on YouTube, if you haven't already seen it you should.

Calliban · 2024-04-28 16:42:13

Watched the first episode this morning. Many modern buildings are not designed with the end user in mind. They are artistic projects intended to gain attention for the designer for artistic skill and innovation. Nor are they designed for maintenance. The narrators' point is that buildings should be designed primarily around the needs of the user. They should also be adaptable to change of use and easy to clean and maintain. All very interesting. I wonder if this have changed since the 90s? There is only so long you can keep screwing the customer.

SpaceNut · 2024-04-28 18:58:13

How did I miss the topic?

Mars soils have had compression for build with an issue that moister would tend to cause it to lose the binding ability. Sulfur was used to make the iron adhere in the experiments.

Estetics are something that takes place in the pictures to make it appeasing to the eye. It does not always conform to physic or logic.

Calliban · 2024-04-29 03:48:01

Terraformer wrote:

I've suggested before that buildings on Luna will be hexagonal, with a circular pressure vessel in between two hexagon walls filled with radiation shielding. That way they can expand the way cities and buildings expand, with each new block added on to the existing complex.
Regarding Terran architecture, there are certain rules to follow for sure. Such as "he who builds in wood builds a shack" (Stewart Brand, How Buildings Learn). If you want something low maintenance, or that can withstand extreme weather, wood is not it.
How Buildings Learn is available on YouTube, if you haven't already seen it you should.

I have watched the first episode and part of the second.

Synopsis of No 1: Architects design buildings to win artistic awards. Very little attention is paid to how well the design fits end user requirements. So buildings are often a failure for their users, who attempt to change them straight away. Surprisingly, architects rarely revisit past work after construction to see how successfully they work for users because it is 'too depressing' to see their hard work modified and screwed up. Another important point from the episode is that building usage can change with time. Architect designed buildings are often difficult to modify.

None of this is surprising, as we have all seen it in action. It is however bewildering that these sort of practices have gone on for so long. They suggest that architects have consistently failed to deliver good value in their products. In most other industries that would put them out of a job. This series was aired in the late 90s. Maybe things have changed since then?

I have only seen the first 10 minutes of the second episode. It is discussing peripheral buildings - things like workshops, garages, outhouses, containers, etc. These are not usually architect designed. The narrator makes the point that this is where the real life of a society is because people have the space and freedom to do things here without it costing a fortune. This resonates with me, because it is these spaces that are really lacking in British towns and cities. Everyone is crammed into flats and terrace houses like sardines. The average person just doesn't have the space for a workshop or a studio that they can use to develop things. This has a crushing effect on creativity and productivity in the UK. We have less living space per capita than just about any other developed country save Japan and Holland. Startup companies need places to start up. There is only so much you can do in the spare box bedroom.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-04-29 03:50:59)

Calliban · 2024-04-29 03:56:46

On Mars, unless we are building under domes or in cavities, most structures will be underground. The weight of soil will balance internal air pressure, as well as providing insulation from the cold and protection from radiation. Externally, such buildings will appear as mounds of soil. There is no artistic value to be had there. Any architectural expression will need to be inside of structures.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-04-29 04:20:19)

Terraformer · 2024-04-29 04:31:54

Well, once we've partially terraformed it options may open up...

Terraced housing isn't such a problem if the garden is long enough. The Great British Shed can still be put in the garden of a terrace, which also provides room for pottering. Flats otoh are antithetical to the English spirit and should be considered temporary (rented) accomodation. Creativity requires that people have space to build, community requires that people have space to host. You *can* get that with terraces, you can't really get it with flats. No room for a firepit or chimnea.

Though with terraced houses you do need a back alley for access, so the space advantages over semi detached are diminished. Probably better to share the access with only youe next door neighbour rather than everyone on the block.

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-13 10:52:46

This was intended to be an open ended topic, and indeed, the range has been wide and high, but except for Calliban's reminder the topic has not ventured very far below the surface of Mars.

In another topic recently, Void has brought to our attention that data collected by the Insight lander can be interpreted to mean that there is a substantial amount of water in the crust of the planet, far below the surface.

In yet ** another ** topic, PhotonBytes has offered us a vision of a (small) habitat at the bottom of a deep excavation on Mars.

I'd like to try to open the Architecture topic for design/discussion of "sky" scrapers that descend into the crust of Mars, far enough to reach the water that ** may ** be there.

A building that descends vertically from the surface would have numerous advantages on Mars.

For one, the radiation threat would be diminished as the depth increases from the surface.

For another, temperature would be stable. The crust is cold compared to what humans prefer, but insulation will take care of heat losses to the crust adjacent to the descending habitat cylinder. Calliban might even worry about excess heating, as humans go about their daily lives.

The material excavated from the construction of such a habitat might have use in the growing Mars economy.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2024-08-13 10:53:25)

Calliban · 2024-08-13 14:54:29

To answer the question of how deep a hole would need to be for atmospheric pressure to be sufficient for human habitation. I refer you to:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scale_height

The scale height on Mars is 11.1km. That means if you dig a hole 11.1km deep, pressure at the bottom will be a factor of e^1 (2.718) greater than at the top, assuming a constant 210K temperature. How many scale heights would be needed to increase pressure from 610Pa to 30KPa? Ans = 4.43. That equates to a hole some 49.2km beneath Mars datum. I think this is impractical.

Hellas planetia is 8km beneath Mars datum. Atmospheric pressure at the bottom is twice datum level. Presumably, as terraforming increases atmospheric pressure this will become a popular place. Unfortunately, it is also the source of Martian dust storms. So maybe not.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-08-13 15:04:45)

Calliban · 2024-12-02 15:37:57

Kowloon walled city is widely considered to have been the most densely populated urban area on Earth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kowloon_Walled_City

As a Chinese government enclave in British run Hong Kong, it existed as a microstate state within a state. With a population of 35,000 housed on 26,000m2 of land, it had population density of 1.3 million per square km, or 3.76 million per square mile.

I often wonder that this place did not burn down due to some accidental fire. But it does demonstrate that humans can live and prosper in less than ideal conditions when the incentive exists or a choice does not exist. Our first habitats on Mars may be similarly crowded. They will be built underground and the human inhabitants will no doubt efficiently use every cubic foot of volume within the structure.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-12-02 15:40:44)

kbd512 · 2024-12-02 16:25:12

Calliban,

I think the first city on Mars will have to be this densely packed, because it means the total tonnage of steel required to build it can be imported from Earth using our most efficient propulsion methods. How clean or dirty a city is, has everything to do with the mindset of its inhabitants, and almost nothing to do with how closely they live to each other. Military ships are packed with people, but they get cleaned every day, and as a result they may not be the absolute cleanest possible, but remain completely livable. As an "escape" from the underground "Steel City", people can spend their free time in relatively open parks, a mall with a food court, and work time in green houses.

Dami Lee has a great video on this design concept on her YouTube channel.

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#1 2020-07-01 07:59:57

Architecture

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