Artificial Starch Production

Calliban · 2024-11-25 10:14:11

This youtube video discusses recent Chinese research on the production of artificial starch using hydrogen and carbon dioxide.
https://youtu.be/e2SsheLN1t8?si=Csf-khyGAqfMP668

Chinese researchers calculated a realistic efficiency of producing starch in this way. They assume:
Hydrogen electrolysis: 85%
Hydrogen to methanol: 85%
Methanol to starch: 61%

Additionally, the heat and pressure needed for the reaction steps consume energy, which amount to another 32% energy loss (68% efficiency).

Multiplying all of the efficiencies together, we end up with a 30% conversion efficiency of electricity into starch. Starch is the main ingredient in bread and pasta, which are staples of western diet. The average person needs 2200 Calories to maintain a stable weight. That equates to 2.56kWh. If electricity is converted into starch at 30% efficiency, then 8.53kWh would produce enough starch to feed one person for 1 day. That is equivalent to a constant power of 355W to feed 1 person. At an electricity cost of $0.1/kWh, this would cost $0.85/day. Or to put it another way, a single 1200MWe nuclear reactor with a 90% capacity factor, could feed over 3 million people.

In reality, no one would obtain all of their calories needs from pure starch, because aside from its calorie content it is nutritionally empty. But as an additive to processed food like bread or pasta, this could meet a sizable portion of human calorie needs. This process, assuming it can be scaled to industrial levels of production, has special significance for Mars colonisation. On Mars, it will be impractical to feed colonists with plants grown in acres of pressurised and heated greenhouses. Artificial lighting in vertical farms is also impractical, as it would consume enormous power. This is due to the combination of inefficiency in the light source and low efficiency of photosynthesis.

To produce food affordably, we must side step natural photosynthesis and find methods of efficiently converting primary energy into food. Artificial starch production allows a substantial ingredient of human food to be produced in a compact facility using solar or nuclear energy. We have previously discussed artificial photosynthesis, by growing plants, yeast and fungi in acetic acid salt solutions. By combining both processes, we will ultimately be able to convert electricity into food with high efficiency in compact volumes.

In previous discussions, the power requirements of a Martian colony were found to be extreme: 10s - 100s kW/capita. This was largely driven by the need to grow food using a combination of natural and artificial light under natural photosynthesis. Thermal losses from growing areas also required substantial heating. If artificial photosynthesis and starch production are instead used, then the food, heat and domestic electricity needed by Musk's proposed 1 million person colony could be comfortably powered by a single 1200MWe nuclear reactor or 4 SMRs with a power output of 300MWe each. The BWRX-300 should be operational by 2030. Something like this would be ideal to support Musk's proposed city.
https://www.gevernova.com/nuclear/carbo … ar-reactor

Some 20 tonnes of 5% enriched uranium are needed to produce 1GW-year of electricity. So a single 24 tonne annual shipment of low enriched uranium could replace the need to ship 100,000 tonnes of food from Earth every year.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-11-25 10:22:38)

Void · 2024-11-25 11:33:22

I like that Calliban. It fits in with "Precision Fermentation", which may include the creation of Solien.

Tony Seba has talked about some of that, I believe. That we will need less farm land.

Our recent history has had the populations centralize into cities and the farm lands being depleted of population.

I am thinking that the reverse may now happen if the bulk of labor that is not previous automation, will be done by robots including humanoid robots.

I think, if we believe what we have been told, human psychology inherits a compatibility with a Savanah environment.
And I think that the current practices are out of step with that, sometimes helping to produce mental illnesses in the population, and mass weirdness's that are counter to the continuation of the human race.

Plus we have the eugenics idiots, that are projecting their own feelings of inadequacy onto the population to try to eliminate the weaklings, and the undesirable and garbage peoples. The trimming of the human gene pool has been excessive in the past, and most likely will have unexpected instances in the future. We do not have to kill off the weaklings, as that will come with incompetence anyway.

Now don't get me wrong, I do not want to see the western gene pools replaced, as we have some evidence of useful things emerging from the so called west. But I can say the same about the East Asians as well.

Anyway, I think the gradual conversion of marginal farm land into Pseudo Savanah, could still allow the harvesting of a "Crop". Leafs, and grass for instance. With Pyrolysis, then Methane could be created from them, and solar energy could be utilized in pyrolysis. Such places could have solar power as well, as local power may reduce burdens on power grids. Such solar power when in excess could be used to power pyrolysis in a batch form, producing Methane, perhaps and Biochar.

The Biochar, will likely hold some of the nutrients in the biomass treated, so then if you spread the biochar, into the forests and grasslands, those would leach out from rain and into the soil, and so not be lost.

It may be also that those could be plowed into the soil in some places, to improve the soil.

So, the Methane produced then could be plugged into the process from China, to produce Starch.

The redistribution of the populations away from the cities may improve human psychology and perhaps allow for more and better procreation. This may not be a problem and might be a good thing if we replace what was here, and maybe have a small surplus to export into space. I think that such a population may have less mental illnesses.

Ending Pending

Most of the leaf harvesting and biochar distribution would be done by robots.

About Tony Seba: "utube, The electric Viking, Tony Seba just revealed why Elon Musk is no longer interested in EVs"
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE
Quote:

Tony Seba just revealed why Elon Musk is no longer interested in EVs
YouTube
The Electric Viking
605.5K views
6 months ago

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-11-25 12:03:14)

Calliban · 2024-11-25 15:06:49

What it means, if indeed it can be scaled up sufficiently, is that humans can live practically anywhere. The main factor that makes it easier to live on Earth compared to say Mars, Ganymede or Pluto, is the simple fact that we can grow food outdoors on Earth quite cheaply. This makes Earth far more habitable than any of the other worlds. But if we no longer need to grow food in sunlight but can instead manufacture it in compact facilities at modest energy cost, it frees humanity from its need for a habitable environment. The same electrolysis that generates the hydrogen needed for starch or acetic acid production, will also produce the oxygen we need to breath.

We no longer need tens of thousands of acres of arable land to supply each city with food. A compact nuclear powered factory will do the job. A group of human colonists can therefore settle anywhere, provided they take a nuclear reactor, food factory and enough uranium or thorium with them. The power requirements of food production amount to a few hundred watts per capita. This is about a 50% addition to the existing per capita electricity production for OECD countries. The reactors will also generate heat needed to keep warm and melt ice into water. So we could likely live in most places without a dramatic increase in per capita energy demand over what we use now. Living in the outer solar system, we would use the waste heat from powerplants to keep living spaces warm instead of simply dumping it into the environment.

The perfection of energy efficient non-photosynthetic food production is likely to change human priorities. If we don't need abundant land to produce food, then the driver for terraforming is much weaker. Actual human living space is an almost negligible fraction of the Earth's total land area. On Mars and other worlds, we can build cities that are quite compact. Dense urban arrangements can be built within pressurised structures or within cavities beneath the surface of other worlds. Reducing the required habitable footprint of human activities makes it much easier to establish and sustain large populations in environments that would otherwise seem hostile.

In the longer term, this development also changes human prospects in the cosmos. We are no longer looking for habitable planets to settle. A rogue dwarf planet wandering through the interstellar blackness, is only marginally more difficult for us than an Earth analogue planet. We won't need habitable land. We don't necessarily need sunlight. Anywhere with tge appropriate balance of physical resources will do. That includes the icy kuiper belt and oort cloud. This development frees humanity to become a truly space faring and space dwelling species.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-11-25 15:25:43)

Void · 2024-11-25 15:57:54

OK, I can agree quite a lot with that as a potential pathway.

And if sufficient energy were available, then you could remove the ice shells from above the cores of those worlds, where they have differentiated, and get at the Uranium and Thorium in them.

For worlds like Ceres that may not be completely differentiated, then you might get it from surface materials.

For worlds with underground oceans, Uranium may be dissolved in the water and extraction may be possible.

But I will bet that some sort of fusion will show up. For instance Isaac Arthur has suggested an enclosure so big that you could explode hydrogen bombs in it. Without gas, then I suppose most of the energy would be gamma rays, Neutrons, and magnetism???

Thick enough walls on the chamber, and you can absorb the energy as hot materials. Then use heat engines to drain the heat to the universe.

That is really not much different than a star, where the fusion in the core makes gamma rays, and those are converted to heat in the upper layers. Except that this will be a pulsing device.

So, yes energy almost anywhere, with nuclear technology, and then to make food, having been reasonably solved.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-11-25 16:06:58)

tahanson43206 · 2024-11-25 16:14:13

For Calliban and Void...

The two of you seem to be off to a strong start with this topic.

Do I remember correctly that starch can be used to make protein as well as provide for energy exchange inside cells?

Unfortunately we do not currently have a member with knowledge of biochemistry (or if we do they've kept it quiet).

For all ... what else would we humans need to experience agreeable cuisine if we enjoyed an abundance of starch, as Calliban's topic seems to indicate might be possible?

(th)

Terraformer · 2024-11-25 17:01:14

Hmm... fungi can produce protein from ammonnia and sugar. Are we looking at the prospect of usng electricity to produce fish and chicken feed?

This process could be done with intermittent energy. I wonder, how much fish could Britain produce using wind power to supply aquaculture...

Void · 2024-12-01 20:55:17

It appears that options are opening up Terraformer.

Calliban, I stumbled on this today, perhaps it is as important as it wants to be: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … 50f5&ei=13
Quote:

Spin-powered crystals could boost clean hydrogen production 200 times
Story by Mrigakshi Dixit • 5d • 2 min read

I hope so.

While they are on the idea of decarbonizing the economy, my interest is in producing chemicals such as Acetate and Oxygen. Obviously a good thing for any world of humans.

Ending Pending

Last edited by Void (2024-12-01 21:00:05)

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#1 2024-11-25 10:14:11

Artificial Starch Production

#2 2024-11-25 11:33:22

Re: Artificial Starch Production

#3 2024-11-25 15:06:49

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#4 2024-11-25 15:57:54

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#5 2024-11-25 16:14:13

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#6 2024-11-25 17:01:14

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