Celestial Cartography

Palomar · 2003-12-03 07:36:25

*I've always loved looking at these old celestial atlas illustrations. The art work, the colors employed, the mythology involved...it's really splendid.

Here's a short-cut to more cartography:

http://www.lindahall.org/pubserv/hos/stars/toc.htm

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-05-20 14:23:13

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/obscure … ml]Obscure Constellations

*Lots of intriguing history in the article, spanning (and touching lightly) on 15th through 18th centuries. Includes info on Johannes Hevelius (1611-1687) [who preferred stargazing with the unaided eye to a telescope...I wonder if that was an instrument quality issue...] and Nicolas-Louis de Lacaille (1713-1762).

"After the 15th century, with the age of the great discoveries and worldwide navigation, the southernmost parts of the sky became known and had to be charted. In addition, across the entire sky were large gaps filled chiefly with dim stars between them.

So in more recent times people have invented the modern constellations to fill up some of these spaces."

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-06-25 06:20:03

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/040625_ … html]Draco the Dragon

*I read a lot of mythology as a kid, which of course coincided with learning the constellations.

Check out references to Thuban, Eltanin and ancient Egyptian temples in this short and concise article.

I'm going to check out Nu Draconis; not sure I've split that double before.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-07-16 07:38:08

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/night_s … l]Hercules

*I really enjoy this series of articles from space.com. Discusses more of modern studies than ancient myth, though. Interesting info about Charles Messier; he accidentally "found" M13 (a large globular cluster) while comet hunting like usual. In 1764 he thought it was simply a bright nebula which probably didn't contain stars. Of course he included it in his famous catalogue. M13 is a good object to view; my telescope resolves it nicely.

--Cindy

Gennaro · 2004-07-16 19:44:20

Since we're at it, well related to cartography anyway, have you by any chance met upon this page before?

http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe/]h … /universe/

It deals with what I prefer to call "astrography", a favourite subject of mine.

Palomar · 2004-07-17 06:41:22

Since we're at it, well related to cartography anyway, have you by any chance met upon this page before?
http://www.anzwers.org/free/universe/]h … /universe/
It deals with what I prefer to call "astrography", a favourite subject of mine.

*Hi Gennaro. No, I've not seen this web page before. Thanks for posting it. I looked it over briefly last night, will definitely dig deeper into it today.

Going further out with it reminded me of the Rolling Stones' psychadelic song "2000 Light Years From Home." Probably not their most-requested song, but definitely my favorite. :laugh: (p.s.: Even though apparently Mick & Co weren't aware that Aldebaran is a star...and orange to boot...and only 65 light years away...).

--Cindy

::edit:: And speaking of Aldebaran: Currently it appears "aligned" with Venus in the very early morning sky (4:45 a.m. today). I would say Aldebaran seems to "point" to Venus, but that'd take away from the fact that Venus is an immense silver spark and certainly needs no "introduction." She's so bright she shines right through the most heavily-needled branches of the neighbor's pine tree.

Gennaro · 2004-07-17 12:10:07

Hey, that's one of my Stones favourites too!
From "Their Satanical Majesties Request", if I recall. Definitely not the mostly played Stones album of all time, but that song is quite good. It has a sort of eerie atmosphere to it. Like space was all made up of liquid psychedelic projections or something. Well, maybe it's meant to be rather cold and void actually...

The other worthwhile track in such a case sounds more like one of your cheerful posts, Cindy, if I may say so: "She's a Rainbow".

Aldebaran is a wonderful name for a starsystem. Too bad no one will probably be able to live there.

Palomar · 2004-07-17 13:10:29

Hey, that's one of my Stones favourites too!
From "Their Satanical Majesties Request", if I recall. Definitely not the mostly played Stones album of all time, but that song is quite good. It has a sort of eerie atmosphere to it. Like space was all made up of liquid psychedelic projections or something. Well, maybe it's meant to be rather cold and void actually...
The other worthwhile track in such a case sounds more like one of your cheerful posts, Cindy, if I may say so: "She's a Rainbow".

*Thanks, Gennaro. :;):

I'm not sure which album that song appears on. I have a CD compliation of their songs, which is "Through a Glass Darkly Vol. 2."

It definitely sounds "outer-spaceish"; in fact, I'd never heard it until I purchased that CD back in the mid-90s.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-09-10 07:41:25

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/040910_ … .html]Tale of Two Sea Creatures

*Yes, Delphinus is cute. The riddle of its asterism being called "Job's Coffin" -- apparently the authors at space.com don't have an answer either. The first astronomy book I owned mentioned the "Job's Coffin" name.

Cetus: Yep, most familiar with that as "the sea monster."

Lots of good mythology lore and history in these articles.

--Cindy

::EDIT:: Found this at a web site. Maybe an explanation?:

"The asterism is rather curious, for its four main stars form a rectangle called 'Job's Coffin.' This is probably a hang-over from the time Delphinus was interpreted as a whale, as in Chapter 41 of Job where God challenged Job: 'Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook?' However there is no reference to Job being swallowed by a whale, as happened with Jonah, so the name Job's Coffin remains a bit of a mystery."

Palomar · 2004-10-15 06:13:11

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/041015_ … Cassiopeia: Beautiful swarms of stars

*Lots of stellar treasures in this portion of the night sky, even if you only have binoculars. I've scanned the areas mentioned in the article with my telescope; very rewarding and a definite "must-do again."

As the article states, "In contrast to the region around Sagittarius (which marks the center of our galaxy), in Cassiopeia we are looking out toward the outer edges of our galaxy."

Unfortunately the article doesn't recount much mythology.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2004-11-19 06:30:13

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/041119_ … ]Celestial soap opera?

*At first I thought they'd accidentally repeated the Cassiopeia installment under a different title. No; goes on to discuss Cepheus, Pegasus, Cetus, etc. I like this series hosted by space.com because it refreshes mythology stuff I've read in the past, particularly in childhood; this particular installment is more nicely detailed than usual. The Gorgon Medusa...yipes. Brings back memories of poring over mythology books the public library had back in my childhood home.

The author of the article claims to be able to see the profile of a queen amongst certain of Cassiopeia's stars. Hmmmm. Apparently has a better eye or imagination than I.

--Cindy

dickbill · 2004-11-19 08:34:47

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/041015_ … Cassiopeia: Beautiful swarms of stars
*Lots of stellar treasures in this portion of the night sky, even if you only have binoculars. I've scanned the areas mentioned in the article with my telescope; very rewarding and a definite "must-do again."
As the article states, "In contrast to the region around Sagittarius (which marks the center of our galaxy), in Cassiopeia we are looking out toward the outer edges of our galaxy."
Unfortunately the article doesn't recount much mythology.
--Cindy

I've been plagued with a bad sky last weeks, and my telescope is in Celestron factory for realignments.
That's a problem you don't have with a newtonian reflector, you can always adjust the primary mirror, that you cannot do it with a schmidt cassegrain.
I like Cassiopea too, it's easy to recognize in the sky.

Palomar · 2004-11-19 13:45:46

I've been plagued with a bad sky last weeks

*Sorry to know that. I can sympathize; it's been an unusually cloudy autumn in my area.

and my telescope is in Celestron factory for realignments.
That's a problem you don't have with a newtonian reflector, you can always adjust the primary mirror, that you cannot do it with a schmidt cassegrain.

*You just got that telescope last year, didn't you? What is the mirror diameter again?

I like Cassiopea too, it's easy to recognize in the sky.

*Yeah, and it's currently perfectly positioned in the night sky, around 9:00 p.m. When I lived in the Midwest, the Circumpolar Constellations were always completely visible and far above the northern horizon. Of course when I moved this far south, Ursa Major and Cassiopeia especially become mostly -- but not entirely -- "lost" when they are nearest the northern horizon. It still is a bit unsettling to me, when they drop out of view (from my vantage point in town)...even after living here for nearly 13 years. The up-side to that is Scorpius is higher above the southern horizon in the summer!

Hope you get your scope returned to you soon.

--Cindy

dickbill · 2004-11-19 20:28:03

I've been plagued with a bad sky last weeks
*Sorry to know that. I can sympathize; it's been an unusually cloudy autumn in my area.
and my telescope is in Celestron factory for realignments.
That's a problem you don't have with a newtonian reflector, you can always adjust the primary mirror, that you cannot do it with a schmidt cassegrain.
*You just got that telescope last year, didn't you? What is the mirror diameter again?
I like Cassiopea too, it's easy to recognize in the sky.
*Yeah, and it's currently perfectly positioned in the night sky, around 9:00 p.m. When I lived in the Midwest, the Circumpolar Constellations were always completely visible and far above the northern horizon. Of course when I moved this far south, Ursa Major and Cassiopeia especially become mostly -- but not entirely -- "lost" when they are nearest the northern horizon. It still is a bit unsettling to me, when they drop out of view (from my vantage point in town)...even after living here for nearly 13 years. The up-side to that is Scorpius is higher above the southern horizon in the summer!
Hope you get your scope returned to you soon.
--Cindy

It's the celestron 9.25 on a CG5 GOTO mount. I have hesitated a long time, flankly it's the golden age for the astronomy amateur, their are so many models it's hard to choose.
The GOTO was new to me, It took me 3 hours to set it. Moral was that when the telescope is too much off axis of the polar axis, even the 3 stars alignment is not much help.
However, when properly aligned, it rocks !
I found Uranus last october in 15 seconds. I just type Uranus-ENTER (of course)- bzzzzzzz ...straight in the field of vue at 100X !!
A target that I could never get in my old 4.4' reflector.
In a 9.25' it looked like a small blueish whitish (more white than blue actually) disk, smaller than M57 (which I also found with the goto function in 20 seconds instead of half an hour). I was impresssed, in 2 or 3 hours of observation, I saw more Messier and NGC objects than ever before.
That was with a non optimal optical alignemnt and I noted a slight color fringe. Now the optical quality of the C9.25 at its best, I cannot say, since it was supposed to be not properly aligned, that' the reason I send it back to factory. But still, even like that, the color and contast was as good as my old 4.4 reflector.
I bought the CG5 GOTO mount to be able to make long pose photo or CCD, that' my hobby. But the sky in Dallas in November
I have to go in the state or national parks.
Anyway, Ill post pictures one of these days .

Keep the good posts Cindy. BTW, Have you seen that there is a movie coming with Nicholas Cage build around " the masonic symbol in the 1 dollar bill" ...funny after our discussion that basicaly said it might not be a masonic symbol.

Palomar · 2004-11-20 23:08:14

*Hi dickbill:

Oooooo...I envy you that telescope! GOTO mount -- yes, I've seen those types. Actually I could afford a nicer 'scope than I have, but I'm collecting DVDs of a classic old TV show I fell in love with as a kid; at an average of $50 per set and 13 sets purchased so far...

Actually I have plans for getting involved with solar astronomy, so will have some decisions to make in that regard. I've discussed that somewhat in my "Heliopolis" thread in the Science & Technology folder.

Speaking of Cassiopeia's "swarms of stars," I was out last evening sweeping that portion of the sky (and also around Cygnus). And I've got the backache to prove it. -laugh- I don't mind star-hopping and I'm rather adept at it (if I may say so myself).

My dream telescope is a 10" Celestron. I've worked with Dobsonian telescopes in the past, with long focal lengths; I've found them to be unpleasant to work with. Bulky, cumbersome, etc. Having the eyepiece holder at the end of a short tube is ideal, IMO. Compactness. :up:

--Cindy

P.S.: I've seen the advertisements for that movie but have not seen it and probably will not (just not interested).

Palomar · 2004-12-14 11:20:20

*What's your favorite constellation? Mine is Scorpius -- and the fact that it heralds the arrival of summer is just one reason. It's majestic and striking; its curves, Antares at its heart (my favorite star), etc. In the northern Midwest its tail seemed to graze the southern horizon. At the height of summer most of it sailed just above the tips of cornstalks as fireflies glowed flittingly in the steep ditches below. I now reside hundreds of miles south of my childhood home, and of course Scorpius is higher in the sky here.

Around May 9 is when its head first becomes visible above the SE horizon. The first glimpse of Antares glittering in that corner of the sky is always welcome, as is watching Scorpius' progression through the sky all summer long.

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/scorpio … .html]This article was written for the summer (northern hemisphere). Is interesting to read how Scorpius appears in the sky to folks in southern Peru and etc. To see it directly *overhead* would be great.

You?

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-12-14 12:03:08

*What's your favorite constellation?

The Glock.

With the glow of ground lighting in most of the metro-Detroit area we can't usually see the fainter stars of Orion, but what is visible (with an addition to the side) is shaped vaguely like a pistol, a big "Glock" in the sky. Easy to find, during the winter at least. Much better than the previous "Orion the Bowtie" of years past.

Though lately some associates of mine have been pointing out Cassiopeia to disheartened Dems. They call it "Dubya"

I used to know some stoners that had an entire set of their own constellations as they spent a fair amount of time on car roofs looking at the night sky. The Shroom stands out in memory but I can't recall exactly where it was.

Palomar · 2004-12-14 12:15:52

*What's your favorite constellation?
The Glock.
With the glow of ground lighting in most of the metro-Detroit area we can't usually see the fainter stars of Orion, but what is visible (with an addition to the side) is shaped vaguely like a pistol, a big "Glock" in the sky. Easy to find, during the winter at least. Much better than the previous "Orion the Bowtie" of years past.

*Okay Cobra. Whatever you say. ???

Remind me to always stay on your good side <nervous grin>. :laugh:

Orion the Bowtie...yeah, it definitely has that shape. I always think of it as a kite shape, though. I could discuss the story between Orion and Scorpius, but it might lead to more violent talk. :;):

--Cindy

Cobra Commander · 2004-12-14 12:26:53

*Okay Cobra. Whatever you say.
Remind me to always stay on your good side <nervous grin>.

I'm not the original "discoverer" of that one. Those stoners I mentioned...

One of the few times they pointed something out to me that was actually there.

Palomar · 2005-01-13 19:36:53

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.htm … ]Long-Lost Star Catalog of Hipparchus Discovered!

*Incredible. Hipparchus was one of antiquity's greatest astronomers and it's believed his star catalog was the first in the world; it -was- the most influential, and may have been destroyed in the fire at the library of Alexandria (a terrible loss all around). The star catalog is preserved, though, on "the Farnese Atlas" -- a Roman statue. :up:

This really is a must-read.

Hipparchus is credited with the discovery of the first nova, figuring out precession, developing a theory about Sol and Luna (no specifics given in the article as to those theories), "top-quality" observations of planets and the first known catalog of approximately 1000 stars.

The Farnese Atlas is a Roman statue, dating to the second century, that depicts the Titan Atlas holding a sky globe on his shoulder. The statue, currently housed in Italy, includes relief figures on the globe depicting the ancient Greek constellations in fine detail. Schaefer has discovered that the constellation figures on the Farnese Atlas are an accurate rendition of Hipparchus' star catalog.

So heart-warming to know something so precious to our human history isn't lost (or entirely so?) after all.

The statue's sky globe, which is 26 inches in diameter, shows 41 Greek constellations, as well as the celestial equator, tropics and ecliptic.

Fascinating "detective work" on Schaefer's part (using precession calculations to date the figures on the sky globe).

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-01-22 07:35:32

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050122.html]The Mysterious Voynich Manuscript

*Astropix is calling on its readers to help try and crack a mystery. Interesting history behind this manuscript. Its art work is oh-so-lovely.

This goes nicely with the most recent post I made in this thread.

--Cindy

Shaun Barrett · 2005-01-22 17:03:59

I only recently caught up with that story about the star catalog(ue) of Hipparchus. It's absolutely wonderful news! :up:

The number of times I've thought about the Library of Alexandria and the appalling loss of all that ancient knowledge, gone up in smoke. It still causes me a degree of anguish to this day, just contemplating it.
Then, out of nowhere, something like this comes along.
Quote: "So heart-warming to know something so precious to our human history isn't lost (or entirely so?) after all. "
I couldn't agree more.

As for that Voynich Manuscript, I took a look at that late last year and decided that, if the world's code-breakers have drawn a blank after all this time, my chances of cracking it are 'zilch'!

Palomar · 2005-05-27 06:48:03

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/050527_ … .html]Coma Berenices

*Can't see this constellation from my yard; too many streetlights in a city. Have seen it many times before, otherwise.

Great refresher information. As for the mythology:

Berenice was an Egyptian Queen, the wife of Ptolemy Euergetes who reigned around 250 B.C. The story goes that she sacrificed her beautiful amber tresses and placed them in the Temple of Venus at Zephyrium as she had vowed to do if her husband returned victorious from his war against Babylon. The hair was stolen from the temple but the astronomer Conon eventually convinced the disconsolate queen that Zeus himself had taken the locks and put them up into the sky.

I read lots of mythology between ages 9 and 12.

CB is a "late-comer." It became a constellation in 1602; Tycho Brahe is credited as having both first catalogued and named it.

Initially, in fact, many of the star atlases of that era did not depict this star cluster as a celestial hairpiece. Indeed, in various star maps of the late Middle Ages the cluster was identified as a rose-wreath or ivy-wreath, and occasionally as a Sheaf of Wheat held in the hands of the nearby constellation Virgo. Others saw it as the hair of Sampson, not Berenice, while still others regarded it as a tuft at the end of the tail of Leo, the Lion.

The article's author refers to CB as "The Wig" at star parties. :laugh: Why not?

--Cindy

Palomar · 2005-06-17 06:00:37

http://www.space.com/spacewatch/050617_ … e.html]Who coined the "Summer Triangle" moniker?

*Good question. The source seems to be a book published in 1954 by a man named H. A. Rey (Find the Constellations). This article's author has searched for references (astronomy/cartography history) to the "Summer Triangle" (Vega, Altair and Deneb) predating 1954, and thus far hasn't turned up a reference.

The Summer Triangle is currently on the rise. Altair is my favorite.

Wish I could help settle the question. Did Mr. Rey coin the term, or did he repeat an already-used moniker? Maybe it was a regional reference, specific to where he grew up.

Interesting little mystery.

--Cindy

dickbill · 2005-06-24 20:47:02

I am tired of Jupiter. This is Mars forum here right ? So I think I have posted the first picture of Mars of this year !
I was in Lake Ray Roberts state park, and I shot Mars with my C9.25.
But I payed for it : I was attacked all night long by ferocious mosquitos when, at last around 2 AM, Mars finelly rose from the eastern horizon !
Couldn't focuse that small planet easily though. So please, don't compare my picture with the Mars of 2003, I know it's fuzy.
http://www.buytelescopes.com/gallery/vi … ...c=29107
After shooting Mars with my digital camera like crazy. I used the GOTO of my CG5 mount (reviewed in the last Sky and Telescope) to spot Uranus.
I said "Dude, GOTO Uranus !" and the telescope obeyed like G. Bush when asked to GOTO war by God. "Bzzzzzzzzzzz, bbzzzz, bzzzz, zzzzzb, Here is Uranus Master" said my scope.
"Dude, it's not exactly exactly at he center of the field ? I have to use my tired fingers to recenter 3 arc seconds !". "Sorry Master, but you are at 200X magnification, it's hard to be so precise". "well OK, that's not so bad" I said.

So, I believe I also pictured the first pic of Uranus of this year (still pretty low on the horizon and very very small).

http://www.buytelescopes.com/gallery/vi … ...c=29107

Happy that my computerized mount did a so good job, I finished my bottle of wine and went back to bed. (the mosquitos were probably all drunk). That was fun believe me.

PS : whoever is the guy's name at the bottom of the picture, it's not me, please ignore and don't mention. My name's DickBill as you all know.

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#1 2003-12-03 07:36:25

Re: Celestial Cartography

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#15 2004-11-20 23:08:14

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#17 2004-12-14 12:03:08

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