Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

Void · 2024-08-12 14:56:38

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … ngNewsSerp Quote:

Scientists find evidence for large underground reservoir of water on Mars
Story by Nina Massey • 1h • 2 min read

It seems that it would be very hard to access. But I wonder if artesian wells might be possible to initiate and sustain in some low places.

Done

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … 0850&ei=14 Quote:

The newly-discovered water is being held in tiny cracks and pores in rock in the middle of Mars' crust, between 7 and 12.5 miles below the surface.

But that does not mandate that there are no water reservoirs/Aquifers at shallower depths.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-12 15:04:57)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-12 17:08:36

This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by NewMars members over time.

The discovery reported in the opening of this topic ** should ** be followed by confirmations.

(th)

Calliban · 2024-08-13 06:59:35

The presence on this water in close contact with basaltic bedrock should result in serpentinisation. This will generate both hydrogen and methane. If we can find these gases trapped beneath cap rock or ice sheets, they will be a key resource for industry.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-08-13 07:08:02)

Void · 2024-08-13 07:12:23

Excellent point.

And Methane and Hydrogen reacted with CO2 can give water. (Stripping the Oxygen out of the CO2 first).

And it seems to me that the permafrost of Mars should be icy at depth, so then a good trap for these gasses.

Also Clathrate of Methane may likely be in the permafrost.

So, a gas well might be quite valuable. Particularly if there were to be excess Oxygen from some processes, as Josh has elsewhere pondered on.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-13 07:23:45)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-13 08:43:33

The article at the link below is CNN's take on the underground water discovery...

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/12/science/ … index.html

Ashley Strickland is the reporter.

The article contains details about how data collected by Insight yielded the water analysis.

(th)

Void · 2024-08-13 09:36:51

A good article (th).

Can we think of this as a crustal sponge? While Earth has greater gravity, the sponge is squeezed harder, and so it is less likely for the oceans to be absorbed into the sponge. And our sponge is hotter. In the past Mars had a hotter sponge. Perhaps it was not as absorbent as it is now?

It is thought that Ceres at one time had oceans rolling on its surface. The presumption was, I think that those oceans evaporated into space, but if we presume faster cooling for Ceres than for Mars or Earth and yet a lower gravitational field than even Mars, might the oceans of Ceres also have gone underground?

There are hopes for geothermal on Earth at very deep depths using microwaves: https://spectrum.ieee.org/altarock-ener … rmal-wells Quote:

“The promise is that, if we could drill 10 to 20 km deep, we’d basically have access to an infinite source of energy.”

The article in the just prior post that (th) provided gives a depth of 11.5 and 20 kilometers. for the crustal water, so with Mars having a much lower gravity field, if it is possible to drill with microwaves as is hoped, then these waters could be drilled into.

On Mars even geothermal of 50 degrees C might be considered useful, as it has so much cold to provide.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-13 09:46:41)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-13 09:56:50

For Void re #

Thank you for your kind words about the work of Ashley Strickland. The article link came from a relative, so I'll pass your feedback to them, in hopes it will encourage them to keep looking for articles that might be of interest to this group.

I logged in just now to remind our readers of the imaginative posts of PhotonBytes...

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10408

The topic above was created by PhotonBytes to discuss/learn about the possibility of digging a well to achieve increased atmospheric pressure on Mars.

I bring this up at this time because of your (Void) discovery of research that shows there ** may ** be water in the crust of Mars. The actual presence of water is NOT confirmed. It is deduced from the behavior of sound waves traversing the crust due to Mars quakes. The analysis shows that water is ** one ** possible explanation for the path taken and velocity achieved by the sound waves.

However, assuming for a moment there ** is ** water at the depth reported, I am reminded of PhotonBytes' ideas.

On Earth, it is not uncommon to build up toward the sky, and there are builders who have achieved astonishing heights in competition to build the tallest building on Earth.

However, on Mars, we humans may have an incentive to build ** down ** toward the water supply.

A well constructed habitat that descends toward the Core might have attractive qualities.

Radiation would be avoided, since kilometers of regolith would tend to reduce radiation penetration.

Temperature fluctuation would be minimized. The crust will be cold, but there will be little change in temperature, and insulation should prevent lost of habitat heat to the crust outside the perimeter of the wall of the habitat.

Light and heat would be provided locally, although the vertical shaft would provide a few photons from the Sun if mirrors direct them into the opening at the top of the shaft.

Earthquakes don't appear to be a major concern on Mars, so the shaft habitat should be relatively safe from damage from that source.

Fire is unlikely to be a major concern, since the atmosphere of Mars does not support combustion.

(th)

Void · 2024-08-13 11:47:25

Yes, the evidence of water is not total proof. Uncertainty remains.

As for digging/drilling for heat is of interest but heat engines, also require cold.

Done

Calliban · 2024-08-13 13:16:54

On Earth, the deepest oil wells are 35,000' or 10.8km deep.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-Gene … -Well.html

Drilling to 11.5km on Mars would certainly be technically feasible, given that pressure and temperature gradients are 0.38 and 0.3x those of Earth, respectively. Due to reduced gravity, the crust on Mars also appears to be somewhat less dense than Earth's. So drilling 11.5km may not be as difficult as it sounds.

The lithostatic pressure at that depth should be around 130MPa. However, the hydrostatic pressure of an 11.5km water column on Mars is only one third this value. Once drilled, water will force itself up the borehole. Pumping will be unnecessary. In fact, my admittedly simple estimates using the bernoulli equation, indicate a fliw velocity exceeding 400m/s. Pipe friction will consume a great deal of this energy. But the borehole could in principle be a considerable source of power. The fluid that does emerge will be a two phase flow of water and gases that come out of solution.
******

Additional 1. It occurs to me that in Earth seawater at 4°C, CO2 is dissolved at a concentration of 3 grams per litre.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/gase … _1148.html

But the partial pressure of CO2 in Earth's atmosphere is only 40Pa. On Mars, at an 11.5km depeth it will be over 1KPa. So at the same temperature, we would expect 25x more CO2 to be dissolved. Given that the amount of water present is estimated to be a global equivalent layer of 1 mile depth, this may explain where a lot of the original Martian atmosphere went. It may be dissolved in the water.

If we assume that this water has a temperature of 60°C (Kola was 180°C) the water may contain some 12.5 grams of CO2 per litre. A km deep layer would contain 12,500kg of CO2 per square metre of surface area. That is considerably greater than the column density of Earth's atmosphere. If the gas is present it will be released explosively as the water approaches the surface.

Additional 2. This is interesting.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/citations/19770039835

It suggests that nitrogen is continuously converted into nitrates by photolysis in the Martian atmosphere. This process may have been greater in the past. Nitrates are highly soluble and will dissolve into surface brines. If these brines have gradually migrated into deep subsurface water layers over billions of years, the atmosphere may have been emptied of its original nitrogen. Once trapped in this way, there is no mechanism for dissolved nitrogen to return to the atmosphere. This would go a long way towards explaining the paucity of nitrogen in the present day Martian atmosphere.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-08-13 14:24:41)

Void · 2024-08-13 15:36:25

This is a good topic, as it seems to be to be the first time serious scientists have suggested that the oceans of Mars did anything except evaporate into space. We got locked into that in the times of Carl Sagan, not that I blame him at all for best guesses at the time. Hower those coming after that era, seem to have gotten locked into a dogma, about space evaporation. Now the "Ice" has been broken

I think that we may want to look for evidence for that broken ice in Candor Chaos in the Mariner Rift Valley: https://www.livescience.com/water-found … 0Marineris.

This could be a cryovolcanic eruption frozen over, I think.

While this would be a water table above the one mentioned in the conversation here, I think it could be possible.

This would be above the 11.5 and 20 kilometers with large pore spaces/crack space. I wonder how Mars fracked itself.

I might argue that when the poles are more tilted and the temperature of Tharsis is no more than that of the two poles, the atmosphere may be at a maximum and water feed into aquifers from the surface may be possible. If it is fed by high altitude water, then it may percolate at pressure into the aquifers. The Southern half of the planet is at much higher attitude than the Northern half, and the rift valley is about at the junction between the two half's.

So, then Candor Chaos may be of big interest. Water eruptions there could freeze as lumpy terrain and would be made to look like soil by dust deposited over time.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2024-08-13 16:03:30)

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#1 2024-08-12 14:56:38

Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#2 2024-08-12 17:08:36

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#3 2024-08-13 06:59:35

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#4 2024-08-13 07:12:23

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#5 2024-08-13 08:43:33

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#6 2024-08-13 09:36:51

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#7 2024-08-13 09:56:50

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#8 2024-08-13 11:47:25

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#9 2024-08-13 13:16:54

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

#10 2024-08-13 15:36:25

Re: Large underground reservoir of water on Mars

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