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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,818

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

I like your ideas.  I would like to continue to study  such.

Various "Rings" are possible.  A triangle of "Pontoons", or four or six, as I think you have suggested.  I was interested in a sample return option.

But your one way lander could be made of "Pontoons" of plastic or Aluminum perhaps, and filled with materials for a 3D printer.  While you might be able to put actual machines into the mix.

Just for silliness, and giggles, lets fill the pontoon with ping pong balls, maybe a partial fill.  Then perhaps pressurize it to a degree.  The objective would not be to preserve this structure intact, but to use it to cushion itself and items included.

After the landing event the Plastic or Aluminum would be recycled into 3D print items.  Even mixed with fine regolith to make a radiation shelter to put an inflatable habitat into.  I believe that Europe may have looked into that.

I will also mention that the "Pontoons" may have some lift from the rocket exhaust reflecting off of the surface, just prior to touchdown.  This may be helpful, but would need to be understood to control the landing process.

If we wanted to go up in scale let's take Lunar Starship to a chop shop.  Chop the Nose/Cargo/Crew section off in LEO and incorporate it into a space station.

Then put your cargo pontoons on it. 

As far as I am concerned you would likely leave those on the surface.  In fact, you might do a "Sky crane" thing and disconnect from them on touchdown and bring the Starship back up to orbit without fooling around.

The engines, just drop stop and let go, and go back up.  Maybe not legs just cables that disconnect.

But this is fun. 

Please do it your way through Frank Sanitra.  I would like to see it.  Fly me, us to the Moon!

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-01 17:20:54)

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GW Johnson

Member

From: McGregor, Texas USA

Registered: 2011-12-04

Posts: 5,798

Website

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

Void:

I like your idea of a sort of ring of cargo containers as the rough-field landing pad,  for one-way cargo deliveries.  I like it for airless worlds like the moon.  I really don't think you could do entry with it at a world with an atmosphere like Mars. 

I will say that I see quite a disconnect between concepts of early exploratory and experimental landings,  and the process of building a colony.  You cannot do those at the same time,  nor can you do those with the same vehicles,  not effectively,  anyway. 

Early exploratory landings should be small crews in small vehicles at multiple candidate locations,  leaving behind enough hardware to become an experimental station should the site actually prove attractive.  The idea is to find the best site for the colony, BEFORE you start to build it.  These are very short stays.

The experimental landings are also small crews in modest vehicles,  with a lot of hardware as cargo.  These go only to the best one or two sites found by the exploratory landings.  You add the cargo hardware to what was left at the site by the exploratory landing to create a base suitable for much longer stays,  where you experiment with how to actually live off the land,  but with deliveries from Earth to back you up if your experiments fail (and some will !!!).

Once you actually know how to live off the land "for sure",  and you know the best site for the colony "for sure",  ONLY THEN do you send lots of hardware and people in very big vehicles,  to create that colony.

Anything else is getting the cart before the horse:  a guaranteed recipe for failure. History says so.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2024-08-02 08:26:18)

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GW Johnson
McGregor,  Texas

"There is nothing as expensive as a dead crew,  especially one dead from a bad management decision"

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,818

Re: Space X - another successful mission...

I see your view, and think it has value.

I myself would like to send robot "Prospectors".  This would not only be to get the science and samples, but to test the robots.  I prefer to return the robots back to Earth, in a manner resembling Apollo, so that the robots can be evaluated for their reaction to the Lunar environment.  I like something like the Tesla Bot, and the robot dog Spot.  Both would need upgrades from the start to work on the Moon.

We are in agreement for "ring of cargo containers".  It makes sense.  In the case I suggest, the robots and their support equipment could be in the ring.  As I visualize it, then at the end of the science mission, the robots would hook to the side of the propulsion section the samples and their selves.  The ring and support equipment would be left behind.  Then if a capsule return is to be done they have to get into such a capsule.  Or an electric rocket can tow them back to LEO.

For all of this I like the pathway of the Falcon system at least for the materials.  That is a lightweight alloy.  As for chemical propulsion, I guess it is to be like Apollo, or like Falcon, or Metha Lox.  Maybe a combination.  Return with electric makes some sense to me.  SpaceX works with Electric propulsion for their Starlink.  You vision of propulsion chemicals/methods would be helpful.

I would make the comment that it might be possible to lift a "Prospector" craft with a full ring to LEO, using Starship.  The Fairing size might allow it.  Then it could be filled in orbit.  I might hope that it would require 2 Starship fights to LEO.

I am going to goof around with a different concept down in the Terraform/Moon section so don't be offended, I will get weirder there.

Thanks so much for you very educated talents that you share.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-08-02 10:28:16)

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