Google Meet Collaboration - Meetings Plus Followup Discussion

tahanson43206 · 2024-06-30 18:32:45

For SpaceNut re #150

Thanks for tuning in this evening, and for your comments.

Mr. Burk's time for the meeting was 5 PM his time, and that is a real imposition on a Sunday.... I really appreciate his joining us for the FluxBB upgrade planning.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-07 06:11:58

Today's NewMars Google Meeting is on track.

FriendOfQuark1 assisted in debugging the Google Meeting hardware using the new setup.

Audio appears to be working reliably.

The waiting room will be opened a minute or two before midnight UTC ( 7 PM Houston 8 PM New Hampshire).

This will be a regular meeting. No special guests are expected.

On the other hand, if a member would like to invite a guest, please do so.

The main items on the business agenda are:

1) Status of upgrade to FluxBB 1.5.12
2) GW Johnson activities (education/engineering/other)

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-07 16:23:17

The Google Meeting hardware seems to be working properly. The waiting room will open a few minutes before Midnight UTC (7 Houston 8 New Hampshire).

Thanks again to FriendOfQuark1 for assistance debugging the connections.

Update: Testing second computer to monitor Google Meeting topic on NewMars.

This is needed if SpaceNut decides to tune in via SmartPhone.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-07 18:00:39

The waiting room is open. (th)

Post meeting report...

From my perspective, this meeting was as successful as any of our previous meetings.

kbd512 and GW Johnson stopped by, and (again from my perspective) we made significant progress in two areas with GW's projects, and kbd512 gave us an overview of his latest thinking about the advantage of using lithium ion batteries to power truly "electric" submarines.

In GW's two items...

1) We established that GW is now able to create ** hot links ** for his YouTube videos. This is important because I am working to show the YouTube videos to educators, and it is possible that one (or more) of these initiatives will lead to someone considering GW's work for education.
2) We got a chance to see the image that GW created showing a solid fuel rocket designed for the SpinLaunch application. The image will (hopefully) show up on the forum soon. In the mean time, we discussed liquid propulsion, and various improvements to allow the solid fuel solution to work.

Todo item for tahanson43206: Use the online calculator that SpaceNut found to compute the velocity vectors for the vehicle at 37 miles, which is the altitude that SpaceNut found for the initiation of second stage thrust.

It was SpaceNut who pointed out that the solid fuel would flow out the nozzle at 10,000 G's. We discussed possible ways of plugging the nozzle during acceleration, and GW will begin thinking about them. One idea in particular looks (to me at least) quite promising. This would be a rod that would run through the nozzle and all the way to the igniter at the front of the solid fuel rocket. This solution would accomplish two things: First, it would insure that the grain can be loaded into the tube so that the entire volume is filled with material. Second, when the rod is ejected at ignition time, it would open a cylindrical volume for ignition to gain purchase on the grain.

A lingering concern is that (per GW) the diameter of the opening created at ignition time should be greater than the diameter of the nozzle. It remains for someone to figure out how to accomplish that. This may be a problem that stops the show until a solution is found because (if I understand GW correctly) the rocket motor is at risk of Unscheduled Disassembly if the shaft inside the grain is too small.

In any case, readers of the SpinLaunch topic are likely to see some innovative thinking.

I am promoting the idea that GW and his solid rocket motor designs will be competitive with the hypergolic fuel solution, which has massive risks and costs.

A solid rocket for this application should be simple, safe and economically highly competitive.

Thanks (again) to GW Johnson and kbd512 for attending this evening's Google Meeting of the NewMars forum of the Mars Society.

And thanks (again) to FriendOfQuark1 for helping me to configure this jury rigged hardware to function reasonably well as host for the meeting.

With any luck at all, we should be able to replicate this success next week. It will likely be a couple more weeks before my workhorse systems are back in operation.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-14 07:00:46

The Google Meeting for NewMars for Sunday evening at Midnight UTC is currently scheduled.

The hardware configuration for hosting the meeting seems stable. Thanks again to FriendOfQuark1 for assistance debugging the setup.

If all goes to plan, the waiting room will open a few minutes before Midnight UTC. I expect to have a second system set up to monitor the forum Google Meeting topic, in case SpaceNut decides to listen in via Smartphone, or anyone has need to communicate with the meeting.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-14 18:02:42

Sorry ... blown circuit breaker
Am setting up now.
OK! Setup with UPS out of the circuit.
kbd512 is here.
SpaceNut joined by cell phone.
SpaceNut was able to connect the cell phone with audio and later with video.
Video from New Hampshire included the sunset and twilight.
Discussion was primarily about (a) kbd512's experiences in the recent week long power outage in Houston and
(b) With arrival of Spacenut, we turned to submarines and in particular, kbd512's idea of lithium battery powered ones.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-20 20:29:41

The outlook is favorable for our scheduled Google Meeting Sunday at midnight UTC.

We have kbd512 back online, SpaceNut is recovering (hopefully) from various health challenges, and GW Johnson may stop by if family activities permit.

Other attendees are welcome!

The agenda will definitely include the status of our software upgrade.

Other topics might include GW' work on the SpinLaunch Second and Third stage design.

We have recently had an active discussion of air compression energy storage with Calliban adding an interesting wrinkle with a hybrid gas and fluid design.

I'd like to see something concrete come out of all this endless discussion of how something ** might ** be done.

kbd512 is an example of a member who has quietly invested in a substantial solar power installation, so the endless discussion is replaced with actual physical hardware, and Real Universe results.

I'd like to see something similar happen with compressed air energy storage.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-21 06:40:32

The prospects for our planned Google Meeting remain favorable ...

The Waiting Room is due to open a few minutes before midnight UTC.

The hardware and software required have been exercised in the past week and nothing has changed, so I am reasonably confident it will work when called upon later today.

I am hoping that GW Johnson can attend to report on his many activities.

It would be great if kbd512 can attend.

SpaceNut may be able to join us once again by that Smart Phone of his.

Other members are welcome to attend if they are so inclined.

Casual Dress is acceptable, in case anyone is holding back because their formal suit is not back from the cleaners.

(th)

Terraformer · 2024-07-21 07:08:16

Kind of hard to attend when you start the meeting at 1AM.

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-21 08:26:07

Hi Terraformer re #159

In the past, we have made many (ie, more than 6) offers to open a meeting earlier for our European members.

This is the first time we've heard from you. In the past, on at least one occasion, Calliban expressed interest in attending a meeting.

I would ** really ** like to enlarge participation in this activity. It has taken a while for SpaceNut to find a way to attend, but he has been part of the mix the last two meetings.

It is easier for US participants to move the time forward than it is for our European members to deal with the midnight UTC that works so well for the US folks.

We would probably have a different mix of participants if we set up a European meeting, because the evening times have worked so well for so long.

Please give some thought to when you might like to have a meeting, and please see if you can enlist some participants for whatever time you suggest. I can (probably) adjust my Sunday afternoon schedule to whatever time you come up with. I usually do weekly shopping Sunday afternoon, and obviously that can shift.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-21 11:31:08

I am running a dry test of the Google Meeting ... everything seems to be working.

GW Johnson has ** just ** published a report that appears to show the SpinLaunch concept might ** just ** work as the first stage of a rocket he is (hopefully) about to design to put 200 Kg into LEO.

With any luck, GW might be able to attend this evening's meeting.

I'll have this topic open for those who might wish to communicate via this pathway during the meeting.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-21 17:40:59

Setting up for tonight's Google meeting.... so far no issues... (th)

We are underway...

kbd512 is here.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-07-21 18:19:39

Sorry, not feeling up to it tonight...

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-21 18:30:53

ok SpaceNut ... thanks for checking in!
Get well soon!

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 55#p207255

Above is a post by kbd512 about pressure and ...

The post contains an answer to the question of what amount of power is available from compressed air store if the temperature is allowed to return to normal.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-21 19:46:52

Well! That was another ** very ** interesting meeting (from my perspective)

kbd512 was in fine form, and we were off to the races with a rapid series of deep dives.

I'm attempting to recall the highlights ....

We opened with a review of GW Johnson's work on the second/third stage rocket for the SpinLaunch system.

GW had run a series of studies that reached a solution that (I gather) convinced him that the SpinLaunch idea could actually work in the Real Universe, with a couple of caveats .... he set the mass of the projectile at 1500 kg (approximately) and the launch velocity at 5500 mph.

With those two adjustments, he was able to compute a fling that would put the projectile where it needs to be for his design for a second/third stage system to complete delivery of the 200 kg payload to an orbital refueling station at 150 km.

kbd512 and I discussed alternative sites for a launcher, and that part of the discussion was certainly wide ranging. However, there would appear to be sufficient reasons for the orbital plane of the fuel station to remain right where it is. A consequence of the current design for the orbital plane of the fuel station is that a SpinLaunch system would have two opportunities to toss fuel/oxidizer/supplies up to the station. This is because the orbital plane passes over McGregor, Texas twice a day.

The launcher can toss a payload once an hour, so it could (theoretically) toss payloads into 24 orbital planes if there would be customers in orbit to receive the materials. As the space economy grows, such a situation seems highly likely.

However, for a first orbital refueling station, there is only going to be one for quite a while, so a SpinLaunch system can only toss payloads to the station twice a day.

In order to provide 100 tons of propellant, at the rate of 200 Kg per toss, the company would need multiple launchers.

***
After we had considered GW's recent work, we went on to an extended discussion of the solar panel installation there in Houston, and the Real Universe on-the-ground observed performance. kbd512 indicated he might be able to contact the engineer who designed his system, to ask why the performance dropped off when clouds obscured the Sun. kbd512 reminded me that the electronics that controls the system is set to handle both over voltage and under voltage situations. The clouds may well have caused an under voltage condition to cause the controller to stop energy flow into the batteries. That is something the engineer might be able to address, if kbd512 can reach him.

***
After ** that ** we took a dive into thermodynamics, with a focus on my question about how much of energy invested in a compressed air store can be recovered, after the temperature of the compressed gas has been allowed to fall to ambient temperature, as is normal for compressed air systems such as pneumatic tool compressors.

kbd512 found a Wikipedia article that has an impressive calculus graph, showing an area under a curve that (I assume) represents stored energy, but I was unable to deduce the percentage of the energy invested in the store that can be recovered after the temperature reaches ambient conditions.

***
Finally we spent a few minutes considering a compressed energy store for home power backup, and kbd512 reminded me that he has published quite a bit of information about a compressed air system for a car. I asked if that system could be adapted for a home energy backup, and with some hesitation, kbd512 seemed to think the basic mechanism might work.

There is some (or maybe a lot of) uncertainty about how far an automobile sized compressed air system could hold up if asked to power a refrigerator for a week.

I hope that someone in the forum is interested in this question and is willing to take a look at finding the answer.

***
All in all, despite technical difficulties that occurred from time to time due to improvised nature of my hardware, I thought this was an interesting and productive session.

We'll try again next week.

As a reminder if any of our European members read down this far... I am willing to work with you if you would like to set up a Google Meeting or a Zoom session at a time that works better for you. Mars Society very kindly allows us to continue using the Zoom facility we set up when they were using Zoom. The Society no longer pays for Zoom, so the sessions are limited to 40 minutes or so, but that is usually enough time for folks to make some progress, or just to socialize.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-27 21:06:16

Sunday's Google Meeting is on track. We are willing to work with our European members to find a time that is better for them.

In the mean time, the regular weekly Google Meeting is scheduled for midnight UTC.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-07-28 17:20:02

Setting up for tonight's Google Meeting at midnight UTC

7 PM Houston 8 PM New Hampshire

Update at 11:52 UTC .... the waiting room is open. I'm not expecting anyone this early.

kbd512 is here ... we are under way

Post meeting summary .... The business meeting was short. We'll stand by for future developments.

The deep dives included discussion of the Boeing capsule situation.

One outcome of this evening's meeting was the encouragement to continue marketing GW's course materials. The audience we want to reach is going to be a set of individuals who are gifted with the needed abilities, and interested in learning rocket science. There may not be a lot of such people in the population at any given time.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-04 06:21:39

This evening's Google Meeting is on schedule.

We have received NO requests for an earlier meeting time for our European members. We (admins) remain open to this possibility.

In the mean time, we have plenty to talk about in tonight's meeting at the regularly schediuled time of midnight UTC.

We have as a first priority considering Void's idea of a doughnut cargo carrier.

GW Johnson has already given this idea his blessing for airless landings, and I am hoping we can arrive at a configuration that will work for Mars.

I have a question about how large an saucer shaped ablative shield can be, and hope we can make some progress on that front. The largest saucer shaped ablative shield ever attempted by humans is (reportedly) the one designed (and built) for Orion.

NASA is quoted for Orion: 16.5 feet diameter

That is equivalent to 5.0292 meters.

I found a web site that contemplates such shields greater than 10 meters in diameter.

In the articles I've found so far, the text implies/asserts that components of a space craft behind the shield are protected from destruction by direct air flow within some distance from the edge of the shield, but heated air will flow into the volume behind the shield as eddy's. It would be helpful to know what conditions exist behind a heat shield during the most extreme phases of deceleration.

It is possible that CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamices) software can model the situation.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-04 16:42:07

A test setup went well. Tonight's Google Meeting will open at midnight UTC as usual.

A session in NewMars will be open for anyone to communicate via this topic.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-04 18:00:24

Google Meeting is open for business at midnight UTC

Post meeting summary...

kbd512 was in fine form this evening!

We opened with a work session on the FluxBB upgrade.

We then branched to deep dives in a number of technologies, including...

1) Void's cargo ring-around-the-rocket concept
2) Heat shields
3) Battery technologies
4) GW Johnson's course offerings and how to reach potential customers.

***
We used the laptop backup system one more time, because the 64 bit machine that is more capable was not able to recognize the head set in time for the meeting. That problem should be resolved by next week.

I'll keep the laptop system as a backup. It seems reliable but it is limited in capability.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-10 16:44:45

We have a Google meeting scheduled for Midnight UTC Sunday evening.

We have several potential topics ...

Depending upon how much time kbd512 has been able to allocate to the FluxBB upgrade, we may have an update on that front.

If SpaceNut is able to join us, we might be able to learn a little bit more about his pallet project.

If GW Johnson is able to join us, we might have a number of topics to consider, because GW has so many irons in the fire.

I'm a bit hesitant to mention human population as a possible subject, because there seems to be some ideology at work.

The Earth is heading toward 10.2 billion people. That number seems ridiculous to me.

We don't ** need ** 2.2 more billion people, from the 8 we have now.

However, there may be some ideological imperative at work, so we'll see.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-11 17:03:16

Thinks appear to be on track for tonight's Google Meeting...

I note that Senior Moderator RobertDyck will not be able to attend because he is 11 hours by bus from Winnipeg, out where bears and wolves are common, and human habitation few and far between.

I'm going to try to use the big Linux box, after several weeks improving with laptops.

With any luck GW Johnson and kbd512 will be here, and perhaps SpaceNut might drop in via Smart phone.

I'm planning to have the forum Google Meeting track open in case anyone wishes to communicate via text.

Update... checking in with separate topic computer.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-11 17:58:11

Ready to go at 23:58

kbd512 and GW Johnson are online at 00:23

Post meeting summary...

GW Johnson and kbd512 were both in fine form this evening. We had a few network hiccups but they were easily recovered.

We discussed the status of the software upgrade. It is moving carefully and not at an unsafe speed.

We discussed GW's book concept. GW showed us a set of drawings that might go on the first page of a section of a book.

We talked about a way of linking from printed pages to online resources using links or perhaps even QR codes.

Todo item: tahanson43206 to contact the Internet presenter that kbd512 found last week, to see if she might be interested in GW's instructional material.

In the second half of the session we took a deep dive into landing leg technology, including study of hybrid landing struts for airliners. These contain tubes that contain hydraulic fluid for slow management of force, while a second set of tubes contain air or nitrogen to handle rapid shocks such as occur when the landing gear first hits the runway.

The technology was then considered for the problem of how to safely deliver cargo "toes" to a surface of a destination body.

kbd512 tossed a question to GW that we'll have to pursue next week, because the clock ran down on the meeting.

I am now trying to remember what that question was.

It might have been to consider a scenario in which the lander drops off the cargo toes while still hovering, and then returns to orbit.

On the other hand, it might have been something else.

Hopefully kbd512 will follow up to clarify if my guess is incorrect.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-17 20:57:42

Our regular weekly Google Meeting is on schedule for tomorrow....

I've made some progress with a Python application to run on a web server. The application does not yet run on Azure due to issues involving port 5000 and the security blanket around Azure. However, on my home PC, the application runs just fine, so I'll be able to show it in a share window, if we have time.

Other possible topics might include kbd512's progress on the FluxBB upgrade, as well as news from GW Johnson on the new solar installation, as well as any of a number of other projects he has going.

SpaceNut has (per his reports) been collecting a nice set of pallets for his (somewhat ambitious) building project.

Other items may come up (and if past is prologue, they ** will ** come up).

All are welcome to join. The Waiting Room will open shortly before midnight UTC.

I'll have this topic open on a second computer, in case anyone would like to post a message there during the meeting.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-08-18 06:31:58

I had a Todo item coming out of last week's meeting: To contact the woman who has 400,000+ followers for her YouTube presentations...

Hoping you might be interested in a book project by GW Johnson: "So you want to be a Space Pilot". Based on his course at NewMars.com/forums. Here is a link to the project topic: https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.ph … 34#p225834 My concept is elementary school on facing page, and PhD level on back of the page. (th)

Other resources: https://www.xylafoxlin.com/

I subscribed to Xyla's YouTube channel along with 400+K others.

Here's the link to the Intro Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B9XYJJY6IQ

If there is a NewMars member who is interested in Xyla's channel please report on any of her many video's that you might watch.

The intro offers little glimpses of projects, as well as of Xyla's interests.

(th)

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