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Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

A Mars Biodome & Bridge Fails, Whos in Charge of Repair or Salvage?

Some possible problems that could happen in a future timeline and if our world's clownish politics continue and get exported to Mars.
During a Communications disruption there has been series of failure on Mars, some colonies on Mars are getting old are suffering fatigue and failures are becoming more common.

its possible the Bridge can be saved

its also possible eggs buried at the farm and seeds and subsurface water and machinery can be recovered and reused

there is a large but useful robot vehicle stuck in the rift, crevasse, valley which could be moved and repaired or recycled.

There is talk of a Solar Flare which caused robots to fail, other social media gossip says sabotage or space pirates or space-religion-fanatics or space-commies or neo-space-nazi other conspiracy, other people say the colonies have always been on the edge and are simply starved of investment, one scientist talks about a quake.

a Mars farming structure has almost totally failed and a bridge across some kind of crevasse or rift has failed but with no loss of life...however both structure made life comfortable for colonists. The farmed goods and chemistry from the Biosphere provided luxury goods, the bridge opened Robotic Three-wheeler Bike-Rover, Train and Trucker routes with access to trade with other colonies and cheap goods.

The colony will start suffering it can survive but life will be very difficult

a political problem is the colony has been recently rioting and voted for independence

There might be all kinds of political debates and opinions broadcast

its possible there might even be cold-hearted views or sociopathic political manipulation from leaders with strange views on morality

1Send in the Military or SpaceForces, we could have people there and we have no time for politics and debate its an 'Emergency' anyone complaining send a drill sergeant to scream at them 'Suck It Up Soldiers!' its for their own good, UN Army engineers, Space Force engineers, Earth Army are trained for this stuff.
2Allow the Private Sector to Bid on Repair...but only allow companies from allies or nations who signed up with Gateway/Artemis for example Bahrain, Romania, Nigeria, Arab Emirates, Isle of Man, USA, Ecuador, Bulgaria, Angola, South Korea...for the moment the South Africa, Vietnam, India, Russia, Brazil and China colonies on Mars are banned! We made great political investments to colonize Mars and the investment must be secured.
3Let the Mars locals figure it out, they are on their own and have the freedom to figure it out...give help to areas in need of medical supply and immediate emergency but only land people to help if requested. Support individualism, libertarianism and free capitalism even crony capitalism, this is not a monopoly nor is it anarchism a Laissez-faire economic system with Mars Oligarchy can work.
4Mars locals voted for this. The local Mayor could be a Fascist or Communist and got himself or herself into this mess by voting against our values
5The Mars Federal Government, the Mars Socialists and Mars Monarchy Town can figure it out and award Salvage and Repair Contract to their own corrupt builders.
6Follow guidelines set by the Space Treaty, Moon Agreement and legal Mars framework on international and solar system Martian law to the letter.
7Keep people from the Asteroid Belt, Venus, Europa and Titan away I hear they are trouble and might even be communists, rightwingers or terrorists.
8We do not rule Mars, it sounds like a Mars Department of Transportation issue, Secretary of Interior, Mars Secretary of Transport, Mars Farm Climate Advisor, Office of Technology, Martian Environmental Quality, Secretary of Business, Mars Ambassador to Earth issue.
9Relay communication to the Orbiting Stations at the Moons and Mars Lagrange points to give assistance, it could make Earth look bad but take political credit for assistance, if other nations want to assist us save our people which might be on the Mars site politely say 'Thanks but No Thanks'
10Post a social media meme, allow the public to put it to a vote, the result will be funded by Marscoin and Dogecoin and other crypto
11Salvage Firms on the Moon can do this, it can be good for local Lunar Elections
12There is a ruthless guy on-site at Mars, he's been a firefighter a pilot a construction worker he did security for a time and was a farmer but almost like a dictator at times and he will cost us political votes and employs a lot of cyborgs and humanoids but can usually always get the job done.
13Let the Martian local port Governor and Mars Mayor go on podium and debate it out, which ever person wins the debate invite them to the UN on Earth take press photos and secretly give them cash to win contracts or Mars influence.

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Re: A Mars Biodome & Bridge Fails, Whos in Charge of Repair or Salvage?

This post is reserved for an index to any contributions that NewMars members may provide in coming years.

The recent (March of 2024) collapse of a bridge in the Eastern US may have been the stimulus for this exercise in creative imagination.

One result of the introduction of this new topic is the recognition of the obvious lack of provision for emergency services in My Hacienda, which is an ongoing attempt to anticipate the needs of a population that might come into existence on Mars in coming years.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Re: A Mars Biodome & Bridge Fails, Whos in Charge of Repair or Salvage?

This topic has been quiet for a while...

I found it while looking to see if we have any topics that contain the word repair...

The (relatively recent) destruction of a major bridge across a major waterway of a major US city has been in the news recently.

The waterway was ** just ** announced as fully re-opened to ocean going traffic, after months of work by salvage crews.

In opening this topic, Mars_B4_Moon posed the rhetorical question of who would be responsible for repair or salvage.

That is certainly an interesting and pertinent question for Mars settlement.

The example of the destroyed bridge in the river leading to the Port of Baltimore seems to me to serve as a useful model.

Essentially, everyone who had any connection at all to the bridge or to the economic interests impacted by the accident seems to have pitched in to accomplish the clearing of the waterway in a remarkably short period of time.

Private industry appears to have done the work of removing the debris, but government agencies at every level appear to have collaborated in a remarkable achievement of funding, coordination and supervision. 

In the context of a comparable mishap on Mars, the Earth bridge example is a good one to model.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: A Mars Biodome & Bridge Fails, Whos in Charge of Repair or Salvage?

Salvage?

On Earth salvage, in international water and sea law, the rescue of a ship or its cargo in waters from a peril that, except for the rescuer’s assistance, would have led to the loss or destruction of the property. Under some jurisdictions, certain nations, aircraft may also be salved but what about off-world would a similar philosophy apply?

The Outer space Treaty,  part of it has the Agreement on the Rescue of Astronauts, the Return of Astronauts and the Return of Objects Launched into Outer Space, also referred to as the Rescue Agreement is an international agreement setting forth rights and obligations of states concerning the rescue of persons in space. The Outer Space Treaty of 1967 states simply that astronauts are to be rendered all possible assistance by state parties to the treaty. The Outer Space Treaty does not provide a definition for the term "astronaut", and as a result it is unclear whether this provision applies to, for example, a space tourist—a person who clearly has not received the training of a traditional astronaut. Shifts in attitudes toward in-orbit rescues also came as a result of the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, after which NASA took steps to prepare the STS-3xx or Launch on Need missions to provide for rescue in certain scenarios
http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/ap … 50321.html
The Outer Space Treaty is the first and most foundational legal instrument of space law
https://www.unoosa.org/oosa/en/ourwork/ … index.html

Space Debris Removal, Salvage, and Use: Maritime Lessons

http://web.archive.org/web/202010292326 … l-2019.pdf

Introduction
The National Space Society (NSS) foresees that that over the next couple of decades there will be a significant expansion into space. In the longer term NSS vision, much industry will eventually move off-Earth and millions of people will someday be living and working in space in thriving communities for the benefit of all humans, including those on Earth. Given that level of expansion of space industries and activities in both the near and longer term, advanced space projects would greatly benefit from the ability to salvage and re-purpose derelict spacecraft.

7
Beyond the maritime tradition and law

Because myriad unclaimed/undesignated orbital debris objects exist, even the best written liability and compensation agreements would be inadequate for dealing with the orbital debris remediation problem without some voluntary mechanism or system for facilitating the adoption (jurisdiction and control) of debris objects.

International Law and Search and Rescue
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 … -72718-9_7

False Reports

bad claims of news reported online by social media news channels?

Fact Check: What to Know About 'Otherworldly Wreckage' on Mars Spotted by NASA
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/fact-check-kn … 00760.html

Therefore, while the photograph is genuine, it shows the NASA lander's aeroshell – initially launched from Earth – and not "otherwordly wreckage," as some posts on social media misleadingly claimed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20100909060 … ncept.html

The Concept of Peril

It is well settled that the peril necessary to constitute a salvage service need not be one of "imminent and absolute danger." It is enough that the property is in danger, either presently or to be reasonably apprehended. It is important to note that it is not the degree of peril which makes for salvage service. If distress or peril is present then, accompanied by voluntary service and success, a valid salvage service has been performed, entitling the salvor to a salvage award. The degree of peril, whether slight, moderate, or severe, affects only the amount of the award, but not the entitlement of the salvor to a salvage award.

It is also the well settled admiralty law of the United States that a vessel driven aground, on rocks, on shoals, or on reefs, must be considered to be in a state of peril. In such a situation, the vessel is exposed to the vagaries of wind, weather and waves, and it does not require extensive seagoing experience or contemplation to consider that so long as the vessel remains in that helpless situation, without further assistance, she is subject to further damage and eventual breaking up or sinking. This proposition was well-stated by the court in De Aldamiz v. Thomas Skogland & Sons , to the effect that "it is idle to argue that a ship aground in shallow water on a sea beach, exposed to wind and waves in the hurricane season, is in a safe place."

If there are borders in Mars?

The law of salvage is a principle of maritime law whereby any person who helps recover another person's ship or cargo in peril at sea is entitled to a reward commensurate with the value of the property saved.
Maritime law is inherently international, and although salvage laws vary from one country to another, generally there are established conditions to be met to allow a claim of salvage
Danger needs to be real but not necessarily immediate or absolute. The subject of salvage must be in real danger, which means the property is exposed to damage or destruction.
http://www.safesea.com/salvage/law/ande … ncept.html
During the British Empire a Merchant Shipping Act 1854 was passed introduced the keeping of official numbers for registered ships, Receiver of Wreck is an official who administers law dealing with maritime wrecks and salvage on behalf of the Royal Monarchies.
Police crack down on scavengers
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/6290887.stm
The "despicable" behaviour of scavengers has forced the authorities to invoke ancient legislation to stop raids on cargo on a Devon beach.

Finders Keepers? maybe not for the British subjects

Mark Rodaway, the Acting Receiver of Wreck, said the "despicable" behaviour of scavengers had persuaded him that special powers dating back to the Merchant Shipping Act 1854 were needed to force people to return goods.

"Personal belongings, not goods for sale, were being rifled through and strewn on the beach.

"I would ask anyone to reflect quietly on how they would feel if that was their belongings.

Brussels Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules with Respect to Assistance and Salvage at Sea 'règles en matiere assistance et de sauvetage maritimes' is a treaty on marine salvage from Brussels, Belgium. As of 2013, the convention remains in force in over 70 states. The states that have denounced the convention after accepting it are Canada, Croatia, Denmark, Germany, Iran, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Spain, and Sweden.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140913012 … -79745.pdf
International Convention on Salvage is a treaty that was concluded in London on 28 April 1989 that replaced the Brussels Convention on Assistance and Salvage at Sea as the principal multilateral document. The Nagasaki Spirit an English admiralty law case on marine salvage and on the provisions of Article 13 and 14 of the 1989 Salvage Convention.  Following on from the innovations of the LOF 1980, the 1989 International Salvage Convention permitted salvage rewards to be made to salvors who acted to limit damage to the coastal environment after oil spills. Articles 13 & 14 of the convention made provision for "special compensation", but The Nagasaki Spirit revealed that the convention had been poorly drafted, thereby limiting the amount that environmental salvors could be paid to mere out-of-pocket expenses, with no allowance for any profit margin.
Ships collide in Malacca Strait
https://web.archive.org/web/20180226091 … 008_6.html
One body has been found and two survivors picked up after an oil tanker and a container ship collided and burst into flames in the Malacca Strait, a US Embassy spokeswoman said yesterday.
The two vessels had crews numbering 46.
The US Navy cargo ship Niagara Falls was at the scene conducting search and rescue operations with the help of two helicopters

Robberies and violence by hit-and-run pirates on commercial vessels around Singapore, the world's busiest port, have been reported with increasing frequency in recent years.

Lloyd's earlier reported that three oil tanks aboard the Nagasaki Spirit were ablaze and that it was leaking oil into the sea.

The accident occurred at latitude four degrees 27 minutes north and longitude 98 degrees 42.3 minutes east, about 10 nautical miles off Indonesia's Sumatra Island.

In Jakarta, Indonesian authorities were coordinating rescue efforts from the port of Medan on Sumatra's northeast coast.

Three people were killed and six are missing, presumed dead after a Bahamas-registered luxury liner was in collision with a Taiwanese fishing boat there late last month.

In June a US destroyer collided with a Singapore merchant vessel, causing extensive damage but no injuries. In July two supertankers collided, killing one crewman but spilling no oil.

an update on that collapsed bridge story

As Baltimore shipping channel reopens, DOT estimates at least $1.7 billion to rebuild bridge
https://www.yahoo.com/gma/baltimore-shi … 30320.html

The preliminary costs to rebuild the bridge as quoted by the Department of Transportation are between $1.7 billion and $1.9 billion, officials said.

Buttigieg reiterated President Joe Biden's intention to secure federal funding for rebuilding the bridge and added that the Maryland delegation is leading a process in Congress to make that happen.

Could tugboats have helped avert the bridge collapse tragedy in Baltimore?
https://web.archive.org/web/20240403124 … 2ffdaa6220

Baltimore bridge collapse reveals a gap in federal government port protection powers
https://web.archive.org/web/20240402152 … owers.html

Maryland officials have said they plan to replace the bridge in 2028

The economic impact of the closure of the waterway was been estimated at $15 million per day.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-06-15 04:34:32)