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With mars and even for the moon the fuel you used to get there is the fuel you will need to go home.
The large 599 page document
Mav is a 2 stage drop tanks on ascent design I think has 3 engines
stage 1 we have LCH4 2,298 kg and LOx 7,841 kg for tank mass
stage 2 it has LCH4 1,191 kg and LOx 3,523 kg for tank mass
MAV requires 6,978kg liquid methane and 22.728kg of liquid oxygen
better defining details are on pg 364
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/3d46/c … a3a780.pdf
Development of a Two-Stage Mars Ascent Vehicle Using In-Situ Propellant Production
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This is from the DRM 5 designs
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File … A-5-A2.png
https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/file … 6-ADD2.pdf
pg 364
stage 1 for ascent will have 4 engines and 2 tanks
stage 2 for ascent will have the cabin, 1 engine and 2 tanks
the descent will have all 4 tanks and 5 engines between the stages for landing with a base platform.
Stage 2
Ascent Module Dry Mass 5 engines w/No Crew 5,129 kg Crew*(6)* 591 kg *Sample*Return*Package* 261kg*
Ascent*Module*Mass*w/CH4*&*LOX* 5,129kg* crew and payload return max 6,668kg * wet total 37,331 kg*
2 tanks CH4 Propellant 7,131kg
2 tanks Inert'Mass' 1,629'
2 tanks LOX Propellant 23,532kg
2 tanks Inert'Mass' 1,345'
Ascent*Module*Mass*(2nd*Stage)* 2 tanks and 4 engines removed basic 3,875kg* 5,038kg* 5,038kg*
ascent module Docked*Mass* 1 engine remains basic 4,727kg* max 5,893kg* wet total 5,257kg *
stage 1 consists of attachment members and 2 tanks with 4 engines
total launch mass 38,076kg
descent has only a partial tank fuel loading
'LCH4'Propellant' 2,917
'LOX'Propellant' 4,214' *table location error
landing TOTALS''' 13,536
continued on pg 368
Design'Constraints/Parameters'
• Ascent'rendezvous'loca#on:''High''
Mars'Orbit'
• Ascent'Dura#on:'43'hours'(max.)'
• Samples'returned'from'surface:'250'kg'
• ISRU'assump#on:''LOX'for'ascent'
• MAV'Opera#onal'Life:'2'days'
• MAV'Total'Service'Life:'~1669'days'
• MAV'Surface'Exposure:'~1344'days'
• Total'Reserve:'30%'(20%'Growth,'10%'PMR'on'inert'mass)
'Crew'Cabin'
• Crew'Capacity:'6'
• Pressurized'Volume:'18'm3'
Two'Propulsion'Stages'
• Stage'1'#'Main'Engines:'4''
• Stage'2'#'Main'Engines:'1'
• “Nested”'Propellant'Tanks'
• Main'Engine'and'RCS'Propellants:'LO2/CH4'
• Main'Engine'Isp'(100%):'360'sec'
• Main'Engine'Thrust'(100%):'100'kN'ea'
• Total'Thrust'(100%):'500'kN'
Crew'Cabin' 3,431' 4,438'
''C&DH 265 265
''GN&C 75 75
''C&T 82 82
''Power 371 371
''Thermal 217 217
''ECLS 364 364
''EVA 110 165
''Structures'&' Mechanisms 1,700 1,700
''Human'Factors 47 82
''Crew'&'Crew;Worn 0 787
''Cargo' 0' 250'
''Non;Prop.'Fluids 200 80
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The Comparison of oxygen liquefaction methods for use on the Martian surface
one issue is the getting of the oxygen to be able to condense and liquify it for the trip home starts with either the mars air or from the mars soils for the source to which the oxygen is gained. Each has a mass and energy penalty that must be within payload capability to and for manned missins for mars.
http://systemarchitect.mit.edu/docs/hofstetter05b.pdf
Affordable Human Moon and Mars Exploration through Hardware Commonality
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Another mars lander topic for data
https://www.engineering.com/DesignerEdg … -Mars.aspx
Here is a few from GW's website
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SpaceX details plan to build Mars Base Alpha with reusable Starship rockets
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For Mars_B4_Moon re #55
Thank you for the link to this (to me ** very **) interesting report!
For GW Johnson ... please note plans to ship a "pre-prepared" landing pad!
It appears that a flight to characterize potential landing sites is very much in the cards for 2022.
What is ** not ** included in the article is any mention of orbital refueling, which is (of course) a pre-requisite for anything the ambitious vision might try to accomplish.
In short, your two papers (Lander and Refueling) have been mailed to SpaceX (and delivered to the Mars Society electronically) so with any luck at all, they are both in play.
Neither may ever be acknowledged. That's just how traditional treatment of unsolicited input happens. However, you've made a sincere effort to help on both fronts, and the members of the NewMars forum are aware of it.
(th)
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Likely leaning on a wide range of robotics, those early missions will help SpaceX characterize local resources, stage supplies, test technologies for long-duration Martian surface ops, and begin developing infrastructure – with a propellant plant likely the most pressing need. None of that is surprising.
According to the authors, which include several current and former SpaceX engineers, “current SpaceX mission planning [tasks those early uncrewed Starships with delivering] equipment for increased power production, water extraction, LOX/methane production, pre-prepared landing pads, radiation shielding, dust control equipment, exterior shelters for humans and equipment, and more – all hardware needed to support the first human base.
First time I have seen " pre-prepared landing pads" mentioned other than by what we know to be true for our mission planning to visit the site and test for characteristics that will allow for the ships landing.
But even if they don’t bring much, the first Martian immigrants – launched in batches of “10-20 people” alongside “100+ metric tons” (~220,000+ lb) of cargo – will reuse all surviving Starships as pre-emplaced habitats, storage tanks, and raw material feedstock. Early cargo will focus on power, water, and propellant production, as well as shelters, radiation shielding, and the construction of prepared landing pads. Unsurprisngly, early residents will likely make the Starships that carry them to Mars their first homes on the surface of the Red Planet, taking advantage of an ~1100m³ (~39,000ft³) pressurized volume already outfitted to keep dozens of people alive and healthy in deep space for months at a time.
Sounds like Oldfart1939's first attempt for mars.
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Methalox and i-Space, it was a Private small satellite orbital launcher from China, now it seems like a much bigger Chinese company. i-Space successfully launched the Hyperbola-1 and reached low Earth orbit on its maiden flight.
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SPACE-PIONEER recently completed 6 hot fire tests of a single Tianhuo-12 kerolox engine sampled from the first batch production for Tianlong-3's maiden launch.
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Elon Musk's SpaceX Starship survives re-entry into Earth's atmosphere after launch from Texas
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 … year-pause
Mars's Doomed Moon Phobos Might Not Be What We Thought
https://www.iflscience.com/marss-doomed … ught-74384
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