Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

RobertDyck · 2016-11-04 18:21:34

Guelph University in Canada did it first. I saw their presentation at a Canadian Space Agency workshop in 2005. They used a hypobaric chamber at various pressures. They found plants increase the amount of water they transpire through leaves. The lower the pressure, the more water. However, in a sealed greenhouse that water condenses on walls and simply runs down into the soil. So in a sealed greenhouse the water just circulates. They found spinach grows at a steady rate, unaffected by pressure. They tested down to 10 kPa. One atmosphere (sea level) is 101.325 kPa. Below 10 kPa the plants just wilted, stopped growing. In one experiment they lowered pressure to Mars ambient, left it there for an hour, then restored pressure. That was to simulate catastrophic pressure loss of a greenhouse on Mars. The plants perked up as soon as pressure was restored.

NASA experiments always use plants in a greenhouse. Sometimes with hydroponics, sometimes aeroponics, sometimes soil. But always small trays in small greenhouses with plenty of water and lots of light, and intensive care. Biosphere 2 created large "natural" areas: rain forest, ocean, savannah, thorn scrub, marsh, desert. That created serious challenges without providing food. They thought it would help, but didn't. Biosphere 2 had a large greenhouse for intensive agriculture, but when they built it they tried to get cheap. It was built in a desert to try to isolate it from Earth. However, that meant shortage of soil. To cut cost, rather than truck in vast quantities of rich top soil, they tried to use local desert sand and imported twigs. The idea was twigs would decompose to form organic matter. But they forgot to calculate the oxygen that microbes would consume while decomposing those twigs. That's what caused the oxygen problem. They also had a crop blight that caused their bean crop to fail. They attempted to clean the soil of that blight, but just as the beans started to mature, the blight came back. Probably not a good idea to share food crop with environment of a marsh. There were separate sections, but connected by a large tunnel.

Last edited by RobertDyck (2016-11-04 22:57:33)

SpaceNut · 2016-11-04 19:56:03

I look at the Biosphere cheap method as what could happen on Mars as we will not have any top soil when we plant those first crops either. That said we might want to look at hydroponic food growth until we do build up some materials in the composter and from the digestors which could be built to make use of bacterium and other such processes.

RobertDyck · 2016-11-04 23:06:27

Actually, soil analysis by Mars Pheonix showed Mars has good soil. You could plant asparagus. It has slightly alkali soil. No organic matter, but that's Ok. Plants can fix carbon from air. That means using CO2 in greenhouse air. The key things about Mars soil is that it's slightly alkali; some crops like that, others don't. And no nitrogen what so ever, so will need nitrogen fertilizer. And some potassium, but not enough; will need potassium fertilizer. That's usually potassium chloride salt, a type of potash. Mars dried-up ocean basin should have some. On Earth it's usually buried deep. And the soil has perchlorates; they'll have to be decomposed.

SpaceNut · 2016-11-05 09:02:33

GW Johnson · 2016-11-05 12:22:02

Those are not absolute requirements, they just get a little better growth. My wife grows more than half those flowers even from the acid list, very successfully here. I've seen or grown most of the vegetables. Our apple trees were killed by a locust plague, not the dirt. Our original fig bush is now a real tree. She has roses all over the place.

The soil here is blackland bentonite clay on top of caliche limestone. It doesn't drain worth a hoot, being what most folks use to line the bottoms of their ponds in other parts of the country. Groundwater pH runs 8.5 to 9. I've heard of 9.5. Yet all kinds of stuff grows pretty good here, as long as you don't try to grow it in a low spot that floods.

You can even do old-time septic, but you need about 4 or 5 times the "normal" length of lateral line, and it needs to run down a gentle slope, because of the impermeable clay.

GW

SpaceNut · 2018-02-19 17:34:36

When we do go the crew that will be the first will be blazing a trail but if the plan is incomplete or in error the crew will need to improvise in the run...

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-05-27 10:43:51

How to recycle water?

Super-Absorbent Gel Pulls Fresh Water Out of Thin Air

The gel material is cheap to make, and a single kilogram can produce liters of water in seemingly dry conditions.
https://gizmodo.com/absorbent-gel-pulls … 1848975857

SpaceNut · 2022-05-27 13:44:40

key article quote"

Researchers have developed a super-absorbent gel, made from affordable materials, that can suck moisture out of low-humidity air. When heated, the gel releases that moisture as fresh water. One kilogram of gel can theoretically produce nearly 6 liters of water at 15% relative humidity and more than 13 liters of water at 30% humidity, according to a study published in the journal Nature Communications. For reference, the Southwest’s Mojave desert generally ranges between 10% and 30% humidity
Once set and dried, the thin gel sheets became saturated with moisture in about 20 minutes. To extract that water as actual, drinkable liquid, the researchers then heated the gel in a closed chamber and collected the condensation. They found that about 70% of the captured water was released within 10 minutes of heating the gel at 140 degrees Fahrenheit.

So whats the temperature range in which its going to work seems to be above freezing and way to hot?

The researchers made the gel from a derivative of the compound cellulose (which is found in all plant cells), a specific fiber extracted from an edible tuber known as konjac, and absorbent lithium chloride salt. The liquid materials were mixed, poured into a mold, left to set for 2 minutes, and then freeze-dried into a thin sheet. All the materials needed to make 1 kilogram of the dried gel would cost under $2, according to the study.

That might give a means to remove the dead batteries from disposal and recycle them.

SpaceNut · 2022-05-27 13:51:18

another post related to the one Mars_B4_Moon

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut ... i'm attending a meeting online so will post this here ... it can go multiple places...
I ** think ** this might be a way for you to harvest potable water from your ground water supply .... it might also work for the cloud harvester drone!
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/inc … 00537.html
Incredible new gel film transforms air into drinking water
Joshua Hawkins
Wed, May 25, 2022, 6:00 PM
Researchers at the University of Texas at Austin have created a water harvesting gel capable of pulling buckets of water out of thin air. What makes this gel so intriguing, and possibly revolutionary, is its low cost and easy creation process.

This new water harvesting gel can literally pull water from thin air
How it looks from the side
The water harvesting gel is so cheap to make thanks to its two primary ingredients. The first, cellulose, comes from the cell walls of plants. As such, it’s widely available and easy to obtain. The second ingredient, konjac gum, is a food additive that is widely used throughout the world.
The two ingredients combine together to make the gel film that is responsible for absorbing water from the air. Once absorbed, too, the gel can easily release it without requiring much energy to do so. But how does it work?
According to the paper the researchers published in Nature Communications, the porous structure of the gun attracts the water in the air around it. It then condenses inside the gel, storing it. To release it, though, all you need to do is apply gentle heat to the cellulose. When met with gentle heat, the cellulose turns hydrophobic and releases the captured water. This allows the water harvesting gel to do its job.
During tests, the water harvesting gel was able to absorb 13 liters (3.4 gallons) of water per day in an area with a humidity of 30 percent. Even when the humidity dropped to 15 percent, the gel produced more than 6 liters (1.6 gallons) a day. The researchers also believe they can improve the efficiency of the gel, which would make it able to absorb even more water from the air around it.
Making the gel
how researchers made water harvesting gel
How it works is impressive. But the most impressive thing about this cheap water harvesting gel, is that it’s easy to make, too.
The researchers say that all you need to do to make the gel is mix the basic ingredients together. Once mixed, you pour the ingredients into a mold and it has to set for two minutes. From there, they freeze-dried the product and peeled it out of the mold.
At that point, the gel is ready to get to work. Plus, you can scale it easily and shape it any way you want.
We’ve seen similar water harvesters that draw water from the air in the past. But, because it’s so easily producible at a low cost, this water harvesting gel could be a revolutionary way to address the water scarcity plaguing our planet.
Click here to read the full article.
See the original version of this article on BGR.com
Here's a link to the full article: https://bgr.com/science/incredible-new- … ing-water/
(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-15 03:42:22

Yes it has Waters

You can build Shelter and Biosphere Farms but how little Water?

'Surprise, Surprise: Subsurface Water On Mars Defies Expectations'

https://scitechdaily.com/surprise-surpr … tions/amp/

'The lack of cemented sediments suggests a water scarcity in the 300 meters (1000 feet) below InSight’s landing site near the equator. The below-freezing average temperature at the Mars equator means that conditions would be cold enough to freeze water if it were there.'

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-06-04 09:28:35

Knowing what is available in the rocks, the sands and clays are made of and fine regolith deposits, Mars seems dead today but the existence of natural type of soil may have once been possible. The sample return or MSR would be NASA's multi-mission campaign to bring carefully selected samples to Earth

The mission to retrieve a Mars sample is running into turbulence

https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/14/2415 … trial-life

Food

Oishii opens high-tech solar-powered vertical strawberry farm
https://www.foodbev.com/news/oishii-ope … erry-farm/

the problem of politics

German greens accused of lying over nuclear power safety to force plant shutdowns
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/20 … down/?s=09

New Mars Forums

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#76 2016-11-04 18:21:34

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#77 2016-11-04 19:56:03

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#78 2016-11-04 23:06:27

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#79 2016-11-05 09:02:33

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#80 2016-11-05 12:22:02

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#81 2018-02-19 17:34:36

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#82 2022-05-27 10:43:51

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#83 2022-05-27 13:44:40

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#84 2022-05-27 13:51:18

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#85 2022-08-15 03:42:22

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

#86 2024-06-04 09:28:35

Re: Problems For A Realistic First Settlement On Mars

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