No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

Wim · 2003-11-25 14:00:51

I agree. A nation that tells everyone it's going for the moon, Mars, etc. in 30 years or so, get's the headlines, companies invest or at least show intrest. Maybe not immediately, but when they take the first step, that's when things get going.
I'm all for the do-strategy and not the we-should-strategy.

Palomar · 2003-11-25 14:08:14

We are currently in a defeatist cycle. The only major press given to space is based on disaster. If something good happens it's back page news.
I think it is worse than that. Think back to the 1960's. We lived in an America where ANYTHING was possible. Think it up, work on it, and it can be done. WE WENT TO THE MOON FOR GOD'S SAKE WITH 1950-1960's TECHNOLOGY.
Look at us today, NOTHING is possible. Suggest the least project, and we can afford it, it might eat into "entitlements" budget. This country is petrofied, frozen in place. Terrified to do a damn thing (sorry for the language, but it was needed). I want to go back to living in a country where anything is possible. I want my kids and grandkids to live there. WE can do it, but we all have to work at it. Get out of our easy chairs and as I said already, get noisy!!!

*I hear you. I do remember the vast excitement about space exploration, Apollo missions, etc., as a little kid (4 years old in 1969), and throughout the 1970s.

Fortunately some of us have retained the awe, the excitement, the desire. I wonder what the genesis of all this apathy has been. The greed of the 1980s? The bombardment of crass commercialization and overbearing pop culture explosion? In my opinion, current U.S. society stinks in many respects. Too much laziness, arrogance, people gawking at "reality shows" (they don't get enough of human silliness in the office or at home?), etc., etc.

Although I'm all for probes being sent throughout our Solar System, I wonder if they haven't inadvertently served to put "the skids" on humans venturing out, i.e. "let the probes do it."

I really hope our glory days aren't back there, in the past, 30+ years ago now.

It's a complex issue, but yes -- let's get vocal. I'm going to write to my gov't representatives again. Persistence pays, especially en masse.

--Cindy

jadeheart · 2003-11-25 18:56:13

enjoyed that political plateful gennaro served up a few posts back. i think there's a lot of truth there. but ironically, it's the socialist-leaning folks who may be more likely to gut the space program in favor of 'social intervention'. but how i would love to be proven wrong on this point. and as zubrin pointed out, free enterprise alone is not going to open the final frontier-- some sociali--er, GOVERNMENT-- prodding will be needed.

as for india, i wish them the best. wouldn't it be ironic if in 20 years there are tons of AMERICAN students going to grad school in INDIA. if i were a young space enthusiast & india was where it was happening, that's where i'd go-- patriotism be damned.

Gennaro · 2003-11-27 12:44:04

enjoyed that political plateful gennaro served up a few posts back. i think there's a lot of truth there.

- Thanks, I appreciate it! Because I'm not American myself, I was afraid there for a while that what I wrote might be interpreted as vile "USA hatred" or some silly thing like that and that I should have the sense not to interfer but mind my own business. Naturally, the reason I wrote what I did was quite the contrary. I honestly feel with those Americans who "want their country back". Nothing would make me more pleased than a US return to space.

but ironically, it's the socialist-leaning folks who may be more likely to gut the space program in favor of 'social intervention'.

- Clearly, you are right. But to my mind that's because those Socialists are all lefties. Not that I'm dead against the social apparatus, guaranteeing some measure of steady state egalitarianism in society, far from it, but my prejudice tells me that leftists are in favour of 'social intervention' simply because it makes them personally feel 'good' (lefties always have to be the goodies), not because it's good or useful for the whole.
What I'm advocating, if such a thing can be imagined, would be a right-wing Socialism (but of course that's only me and my way of expressing myself). That is, the realization that we all share in the fate of this planet and that no one in a universalist sense can truly be said to own anything, yet at the same time a thought cleansed from all religiously false pretentions about a Communist utopia and a coming liberation from 'evil' capitalism and civilization.
In fact, since both Communism and Neoliberalism, as I see it, pre-suppose the idea of the "noble savage", who's good intentions are merely oppressed by civilization and the state, they are both basically leftist ideologies, no matter how much libertarians love private enterprise and clamor about taxation.

but how i would love to be proven wrong on this point. and as zubrin pointed out, free enterprise alone is not going to open the final frontier-- some sociali--er, GOVERNMENT-- prodding will be needed.

- Know what? I'll try not to become too pathetic and honour Zubrin as one of the greatest geniuses of our time, but it's hard not to.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-11-27 20:06:57

Gennaro, I agree with you on many things, including the bit about Dr. Zubrin.

jadeheart · 2003-11-28 19:17:31

I was afraid there for a while that what I wrote might be interpreted vile "USA hatred"

Nah. I can only speak for myself, but I tend to be pretty receptive to criticism (constructive or otherwise) of things i hold dear, including the USA. I'd even be willing to digest "vile USA hatred" even though I might not agree with it. Extreme viewpoints are more likely to amuse me than enrage me.

As for "lefties" i get the impression your categorization (are you european?) is probably more 'left' than what we here in the US would use. my views would probably be considered much more moderate in europe than they would here. i generally support gov't regulation of business as well as some of the carefully-monitored social programs that our current leadership is trying to dismantle. however, i've always suspected that most (american) liberals would have the space program demolished given the chance (although i have seen some circumstantial evidence lately that leads me to think i may be wrong), and i would rabidly oppose such a thing.

it's funny though, since nasa really is a socialist space venture i don't understand why the repubs aren't constantly trying to disembowel it. it's no less socialist than medicaid or social security or food stamps. maybe because the money winds up ultimately going to aerospace contractors instead of indigents? it sure makes one wonder to hear that newt gingrich is pro-space.

your 'right-wing socialism' idea really made me laugh, though. not because it's outlandish but because i couldn't help imagining how most conservatives here would react to what they'd consider to be an oxymoron. socialists in the US are generally considered to be ultra-left traitors, in league with communists. (and i'd bet that most americans couldn't tell you the difference between the two.) in europe socialist parties are legitimate political entities; in america they are considered somewhere around the level of evil pond scum. and as far as i can tell most of them (not all) are already 'cleansed from all religiously false pretentions about a Communist utopia and a coming liberation from 'evil' capitalism and civilization.' from what you say it sounds like eurolefties are a lot more left than american lefties.

but to get back on-thread, it seems that it may be worthwhile to undertake some effort to convince the politically liberal that space is a good investment. some kind of outreach program? i dunno. maybe we should get the mars society to infiltrate the democratic party. if there really is no current gov't plan around the corner to go to mars then we may have nothing to lose by ousting the current regime.

Gennaro · 2003-12-06 14:05:10

Yes, I'm a European. As a matter of fact, I'm a Swede, living in a country with perhaps the most throughly '68 leftist saturated political and cultural establishment in the world.
France and Germany are not that close behind though, which begs me to differ about euro-socialists being cleansed from noble savage romanticism and what is basically a revolutionary eschatolology, although it might not even occur to themselves. In fact, they are a lot more left than they are socialist. John Lennon is their main or indirect inspiration, not La Salle.
That is not to say that US rightists would not feel that "right-wing socialism" would be an oxymoron maybe even more than in Europe, or that euro-"socialists" are not legit. In Europe, it's generally whatever is regarded as right that is looked down upon in disgust and met with severe ostracism.

maybe we should get the mars society to infiltrate the democratic party.

- Well, that's more like it, LOL! Calling for political action. :laugh:

jadeheart · 2003-12-07 20:40:41

hey, not to derail this thread (it's looking like it's dying anyway), but i read a pretty interesting article on the 'noble savage' myth by michael shermer recently in scientific american. you've mentioned this a bit (i'm guessing you'd like to throw Rousseau into a pitful of bornean cannibals to see what happens) so i figured you'd enjoy it:

ignoble savage

Gennaro · 2003-12-09 17:32:38

Rousseau in Bornean chauldron. That text was really good, ha ha! Thanks!

SpaceNut · 2024-03-17 16:51:06

It's been 2 decades since President Bush talked of going to Mars was high on the list of challenges.

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#26 2003-11-25 14:00:51

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#27 2003-11-25 14:08:14

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#28 2003-11-25 18:56:13

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#29 2003-11-27 12:44:04

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#30 2003-11-27 20:06:57

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#31 2003-11-28 19:17:31

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#32 2003-12-06 14:05:10

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#33 2003-12-07 20:40:41

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#34 2003-12-09 17:32:38

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

#35 2024-03-17 16:51:06

Re: No plans for Mars mission in near future - sketchy details

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