Hybernation using today's medical technology

RobertDyck · 2020-07-22 11:18:45

There has been real progress on hibernation. Researchers found 80 ppm hydrogen sulphide gas (H2S) will cause mice and rats to go into hibernation. The mice and rats must be subjected to cold, it won't happen in summer temperatures. Body temperature drops to +2°C, ambient temperature must be the same. Increase CO2, reduce O2, this causes body metabolism to shift to anoxic. They tried it with rabbits, it required slightly higher concentration of H2S, and they were only able to reduce body temperature to +5°C. Another researcher tried it with deer, elk, and moose. He also replaced 50% blood volume with saline. That's salt water with the same salt concentration as blood. It worked... sort of. When replacing blood with saline, 10% of the animals did not awaken, they died. Of those that did survive, 30% suffered permanent brain damage. The animals did nothing but stand around, eat, shit, and sleep. For livestock on Mars, they won't have anywhere to go, they would be stuck in a stall in a hard wall barn that the animal cannot bite/chew/claw out of. So for livestock that's possible, but not humans.

Note: at concentrations of 300-350 ppm hydrogen sulphide gas is lethal. Sub-lethal dose causes the body to drastically drop it's temperature. Body temperature regulation still works (mostly) but the set temperature is dropped. That's what this does.

Can this be used with humans? At 50-100 ppm H2S gas causes eye damage. That's exactly the range necessary to drop body temperature. So... not so much. Wikipedia: Hydrogen Sulphide

So what can we do? Medical technology has developed something called "medically induced coma". This is barbiturates, usually pentobarbital or thiopental, that shut down brain function. It prevents swelling of the brain, and prevents the human body from performing "triage". Triage means healing for moderately damaged body parts are given priority, severely damaged body parts are deprived blood so allowed to die. This allows the body to focus on body energy, nutrients and resources on parts that have the greatest likelihood to recover. Medically induced coma prevents the body from cutting off blood to parts of the brain, giving those parts a chance to heal.

Surgery on the aorta requires cooling a patent's body to near freezing. This slows metabolism so the body can be deprived of blood for a few minutes without decay or tissue death. Long enough for the surgery. I'm not suggesting we stop the heart, but medically induced deep hypothermia can be done.

Can we put individuals into hibernation simply with current medical technology? Medically induced coma and deep hypothermia?

Calliban · 2020-07-23 03:13:47

RobertDyck wrote:

There has been real progress on hibernation. Researchers found 80 ppm hydrogen sulphide gas (H2S) will cause mice and rats to go into hibernation. The mice and rats must be subjected to cold, it won't happen in summer temperatures. Body temperature drops to +2°C, ambient temperature must be the same. Increase CO2, reduce O2, this causes body metabolism to shift to anoxic. They tried it with rabbits, it required slightly higher concentration of H2S, and they were only able to reduce body temperature to +5°C. Another researcher tried it with deer, elk, and moose. He also replaced 50% blood volume with saline. That's salt water with the same salt concentration as blood. It worked... sort of. When replacing blood with saline, 10% of the animals did not awaken, they died. Of those that did survive, 30% suffered permanent brain damage. The animals did nothing but stand around, eat, shit, and sleep. For livestock on Mars, they won't have anywhere to go, they would be stuck in a stall in a hard wall barn that the animal cannot bite/chew/claw out of. So for livestock that's possible, but not humans.
Note: at concentrations of 300-350 ppm hydrogen sulphide gas is lethal. Sub-lethal dose causes the body to drastically drop it's temperature. Body temperature regulation still works (mostly) but the set temperature is dropped. That's what this does.
Can this be used with humans? At 50-100 ppm H2S gas causes eye damage. That's exactly the range necessary to drop body temperature. So... not so much. Wikipedia: Hydrogen Sulphide
So what can we do? Medical technology has developed something called "medically induced coma". This is barbiturates, usually pentobarbital or thiopental, that shut down brain function. It prevents swelling of the brain, and prevents the human body from performing "triage". Triage means healing for moderately damaged body parts are given priority, severely damaged body parts are deprived blood so allowed to die. This allows the body to focus on body energy, nutrients and resources on parts that have the greatest likelihood to recover. Medically induced coma prevents the body from cutting off blood to parts of the brain, giving those parts a chance to heal.
Surgery on the aorta requires cooling a patent's body to near freezing. This slows metabolism so the body can be deprived of blood for a few minutes without decay or tissue death. Long enough for the surgery. I'm not suggesting we stop the heart, but medically induced deep hypothermia can be done.
Can we put individuals into hibernation simply with current medical technology? Medically induced coma and deep hypothermia?

Interesting. What is the desired outcome? To slow the ageing process or reduce consumption of consumables in transit?

Hibernation would improve the economics of spaceflight beyond the moon. If we could pack hibernating humans into containers like other cargo and provide them with limited oxygen and fluids, then the number of people carried by a single Starship would be greatly increased. Initiatives like this are going to be necessary, as a round trip time of 2.5 years means that a single Starship will complete at most ten round trips in its lifetime. There is no practical way of reducing round trip times and fatigue life will limit the effective lifetime of the ship. Increasing passenger volumes using hibernation is economically desirable, if it can be made to work.

In some ways, it is a more desirable way to travel. Who really wants to live in a cramped tin can for several months, when they can sleep through it? But it would only be acceptable if you could be sure of waking up on the other end without longterm damage. People will go for this if the risks are acceptable and it cuts ticket price dramatically.

Maybe we can transport convicts to other locations in the solar system in this way to perform useful work. They can either spend 20 years in prison, or 4 years in hibernation and 6 years working on an asteroid with some danger money pay at the end of it. Some will take it I'm sure.

Last edited by Calliban (2020-07-23 03:23:46)

tahanson43206 · 2020-07-23 07:29:10

For RobertDyck and Calliban, and all re topic ...

A relatively recent science fiction film painted what I thought was a generally realistic picture of use of hibernation for a 100 year flight to a distant star.

The plot line of the story revolved around a collision of the starship with a bit (or perhaps several bits) of matter at (what I think was 10% of c).

The hero woke up because his automated life support system was triggered by something, so he found himself alone on a huge ship.

There were only one or two instances of the artistic director getting away with ridiculous ideas for the sake of artificial theatrical effects.

I'm blanking on the name right now, so asked Google:

https://spacenews.com/11-must-see-space … out-space/

The list at spacenews does not include the specific film I'm thinking of, but I do agree with the films on the list.

"Passengers" is the name I was looking for ... I found it in this list:

https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/top-25-mo … ace-ranked

On a routine journey through space to a new home, two passengers, sleeping in suspended animation, are awakened 90 years too early when their ship malfunctions. As Jim and Aurora face living the rest of their lives on board, with every luxury they could ever ask for, they begin to fall for each othe… MORE
Initial release: December 22, 2016 (Russia)
Director: Morten Tyldum
Budget: $110–150 million
Box office: 303.1 million USD
Screenplay: Jon Spaihts
Nominations: Academy Award for Best Original Music Score, MORE

For RobertDyck ... If you have not seen this film, I think I can safely recommend it for your study, in connection to your large passenger ship topic.

There are a number of reviews that Google found. Here is a snippet from one of them:

Search Results
Web results
Sci-Fi Gets Science Right: 'Passengers' Nails the Physics ...www.space.com › 35104-passengers-scifi-movie-nails-s...
Dec 21, 2016 - While aspects of the new science-fiction film "Passengers" may seem like pies in the sky to skeptics, creators of the futuristic space thriller ...

(th)

RobertDyck · 2020-07-23 10:37:57

"Passengers" movie? That's a major movie. Jennifer Lawrence and Chris Pratt. Dating Jennifer Lawrence? Would definitely recommend it.

However, their chamber with hibernation pods is highly unrealistic. The pods would be stacked like cord wood, not spread out with lots of floor space and head room. Passengers are asleep.
(click image for YouTube trailer)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2021-12-12 12:25:24

The "medically induced coma" or hibernation is an interesting subject. Here's a news item on sleep but not really related to cryo chamber or scifi concepts like suspended animation

High-tech sleeping bag could solve vision issues in space
https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/High … e_999.html

For 72 straight hours, the study volunteer lay in a bed at UT Southwestern, the monotony broken only at night when researchers placed his lower body in a sealed, vacuum-equipped sleeping bag to pull down body fluids that naturally flowed into his head while supine.
New research published in JAMA Ophthalmology shows that by suctioning these fluids and unloading brain pressure, the specially designed sleeping bag may prevent vision problems astronauts endure in space, where fluids float into the head and continually push and reshape the back of the eyeball.
The phenomenon has vexed scientists for more than a decade and remains one of the biggest health dilemmas of human space exploration. But the findings from UT Southwestern - which NASA enlisted to seek answers to astronauts' vision problems - suggest the high-tech sacks may provide a solution.
Notably, researchers found that while just three days of lying flat induced enough pressure to slightly alter the eyeball's shape, no such change occurred when the suction technology was used.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-06-03 08:39:25

Here's Why Hibernation in Space May Not Be Possible For Future Space Travelers

https://www.futurespacetech.com/2022/04 … y-not.html

Calliban · 2022-06-03 13:37:05

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

Here's Why Hibernation in Space May Not Be Possible For Future Space Travelers
https://www.futurespacetech.com/2022/04 … y-not.html

So basically, humans have too little body fat to hibernate long term. All that would be needed to change this conclusion is to hook them up with a drip.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-03 13:53:48

Altos Labs launches Cambridge Institute of Science with $3B to support its cellular rejuvenation mission: "to reverse disease, injury, and the disabilities that occur throughout life”

https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ … l-9261846/

RobertDyck · 2022-07-06 17:09:40

Chasing Ghosts: Unlocking the Mysteries of Human Hibernation

In October 2006, Rokkō provided the perfect place for Mitsutaka Uchikoshi, a 35-year-old civil servant, to go picnicking with a group of friends.
...
On his way down, Uchikoshi lost his footing, causing him to slip, knock his head and break his pelvis. Unable to move or call for help, he lay wounded on the side of the mountain. At night the autumn cold, dropping as low as 50 degrees Fahrenheit, crept into his bones. He passed out.
After 24 days, he was found by a passing climber and transferred to Kobe City Medical Center General Hospital. He was extremely hypothermic and cold to the touch. Many of his organs were failing. According to news reports at the time, Uchikoshi's doctors reasoned he had fallen into a state "similar to hibernation," just like a groundhog might.
...
In 2016, in an FDA-approved clinical trial, a team of surgeons at the University of Maryland School of Medicine, led by Dr. Samuel Tisherman, began investigating how the procedure might help these patients survive. It is hoped that the process, known as Emergency Preservation and Resuscitation, will improve the odds of survival for trauma patients without doing any damage to their brains.
...
enrolling the first human patient and placing that person temporarily in "suspended animation" in November 2019. It's expected that 10 people will be enrolled by the trial's completion.
The full results of the trial are still pending and have been delayed twice, with the pandemic throwing an extra wrench in the works. It's now expected to be complete in December 2023, according to its listing on the US clinical trials database.
...
The clinical trial is trying to keep patients in a state of suspended animation for only minutes or, at most, an hour or so — long enough for doctors to repair traumatic injuries. As Tisherman told New Scientist in 2019, "I want to make clear that we're not trying to send people off to Saturn."
But Uchikoshi's long period of inactivity and subsequent recovery suggests such a future might be possible.

SpaceNut · 2022-07-06 20:40:42

Seems that all we need is to stay warmer than hypothermia temperatures but in a knocked-out state.
Normal body temperature is around 98.6 F (37 C). Hypothermia occurs as your body temperature falls below 95 F (35 C).

R.bf8ba0132f840c8bc735e50035af0e51?rik=WWP9zVx3n9AaKA&riu=http%3a%2f%2f1.bp.blogspot.com%2f-I98cuGo3SMk%2fU7HeAotmciI%2fAAAAAAAAAyQ%2f_OLpDpK_dzg%2fs1600%2fHypothermia.jpg&ehk=cgaVLFUi%2bLidnpODqU5%2f%2f0YEt%2bwedVYpgVIeShmZyxg%3d&risl=&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-02-10 21:39:20

Different to the Cryogenic Suspended Animation seen and described in cartoons, movie and scifi novels.

NASA astronauts could hibernate in deep space thanks to squirrels
https://www.space.com/squirrel-hibernat … astronauts

Researchers are studying hibernating Arctic ground squirrels with the goal of harnessing the benefits of this odd natural state to protect astronauts' health on long-duration space missions.
Hibernation is not just sleep. In fact, it's quite different from sleep. While we sleep, our brains fire up and become highly active; in hibernation, on the contrary, brain activity completely slows down. The body temperature of hibernating animals also drops, in some cases close to the freezing point, cells stop dividing and heart rate decreases to two beats per minute.
Yet, once it's time to wake up, hibernating animals bounce back to life without any substantial side effects. The same, however, can't be said about people who wake up from long-term medical comas, or even those who are bed-ridden for long periods of time. Such people, just like astronauts in microgravity, would suffer from a wide range of side effects that come from not actively using their bodies: Muscle loss, bone loss, organ degradation.

NASA is therefore looking into hibernation research with the aim of developing ways to induce hibernation in future space farers. Recently, the agency has awarded a grant to Kelly Drew, a professor of chemistry and biochemistry at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks, who has studied hibernating animals for more than two decades.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-02-11 06:38:40)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-19 18:00:56

Hypothalamic Protein Loss Drives Aging, Hints at Approach to Reverse Cognitive Decline

https://www.genengnews.com/aging/hypoth … e-decline/

The results of a study headed by researchers at Xiamen University has found that a hypothalamic protein called Menin may play a key role in aging. The findings, reported in PLOS Biology by Lige Leng, PhD, and colleagues, revealed what they describe as a previously unknown driver of physiological aging.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-22 06:12:30

Astronauts that hibernate on long spaceflights is not just for sci-fi. We could test it in 10 years.

https://www.space.com/astronaut-hiberna … -in-decade

The first hibernation studies with human subjects could be feasible within a decade, a European Space Agency (ESA) researcher thinks.

Such experiments would pave the way for a science-fiction-like approach to long-duration space missions that would see crew members placed into protective slumber for weeks or months on their way to distant destinations.

Hibernating on a year-long trip to Mars would not just prevent boredom in a tiny space capsule; it would also save mission cost, as the hibernating crew members wouldn't need to eat or drink and would even require far less oxygen than those awake.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-06-16 03:32:49

AI algorithms find drugs that could combat ageing

https://www.ed.ac.uk/news/2023/ai-algor … bat-ageing

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-26 04:05:21

Horror stories of cryonics: The gruesome fates of futurists hoping for immortality
https://bigthink.com/the-future/cryonic … r-stories/
For decades people have arranged to freeze their bodies after death, dreaming of resurrection by advanced future medicine. Many met a fate far grislier than death.

Several facilities in the U.S. and abroad maintain morbid warehouse morgues full of frozen human heads and bodies, waiting for the future. They are part of a story that is ghoulish, darkly humorous, and yet endearingly sincere. For a small group of fervent futurists, it is their lottery ticket to immortality. What are the chances that these bodies will be reanimated? Will baseball legend Ted Williams’ frozen head be awakened to coach fighter pilots or fused to a robot body to hit .400 again?
A primer on cryonics
Cryonics — attempting to cryopreserve the human body — is widely considered a pseudoscience. Cryopreservation is a legitimate scientific endeavor in which cells, organs, or in rare cases entire organisms may be cooled to extremely low temperatures and revived somewhat intact. It occurs in nature, but only in limited cases.

Humans are particularly difficult to preserve because of the delicate structure in (most of) our heads. Deprived of oxygen at room temperature, the brain dies within minutes. While the body may be reanimated, the person who “lives” is often in a permanent vegetative state. Cooling the body may give the brain a bit more time. During brain or heart surgery, circulation may be stopped for up to an hour with the body cooled to 20° C (68° F). A procedure to cool the body to 10° C (50 F°) without oxygen for additional hours is still at the experimental research stage.

After a while, he let the bodies thaw out inside the capsule and left the whole thing festering in his vault.

quote
'When a cryonic patient dies, a race begins to prepare and cool the body before it decays and then to place it inside a Dewar: a thermos bottle full of liquid nitrogen (LN). The inner vessel of the Dewar contains a body, or bodies, wrapped in several layers of insulating material, attached to a stretcher, and suspended in LN. The head is oriented downward to keep the brain the coldest and most stable.

This vessel lies within a second outer vessel, separated by a vacuum to avoid heat transfer from the outer room-temperature vessel wall to the cold inner vessel wall. Heat gradually transfers across anyway and boils away the LN, which must be periodically refilled. Bodies were originally, and may still be in some cases, cooled and frozen in whatever condition they were in at death, with better or worse preservation, as we shall see.
The grisly fates of the first cryonauts

The early years of cryonics were grisly. All but one of the first frozen futurists failed in their quest for immortality...'

There is "Passengers" mentioned by RobertDyck

it still continues to be a popular topic for scifi in modern culture

'ALTERED CARBON'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm_SlyHGYfE

Futurama another toon, people moving into the future taking a really long nap, sometimes its a Clone or Upload to a Synth Body a person uploaded into the new body or a Human Popsicle. Dark Matter (TV Series 2015–2017) the people forgot who they were after a big sleep. Dead Leaves is a 2004 Japanese animated cartoon, Buck Rogers was a popular comicstrip and tv show. In Seksmisja a Poland take on it a 1984 Polish Science Fiction film where men wake up in a Neo-Feminist world and are told by representatives of Women League that Copernicus and Einstein were both women. The animated 'Gandahar' and Lily C.A.T. a Japan animation, the original Planet of the Apes tv show, the scifi 'Pandorum', Cargo 2009, Genesis II a TV Movie, Darkstar: The Interactive Movie and many video game topics Nikopol: Secrets of the Immortals, Firefly tv series and the Japanese anime or manga Cowboy Bebop feature characters which were cryo-frozen. Star Trek featured cryo-sleep in episodes or Star Wars Return of the Jedi, when Han Solo is thawed out from a brick of carbonite. Alien or Aliens franchise with Ridley Scott, James Cameron sequel and the horror art of H. R. Giger might be the most common example of its appearance in pop culture but leaving warnings such a long sleep might be 'dangerous' maybe inspiring Grimdark like Event Horizon or themes for Cyberpunk Virtual worlds like The Matrix film series. Another example in novels to movies 2001 Space Odyssey or To Sleep in a Sea of Stars is a science fiction novel by Christopher Paolini featuring 'Nanotech' and Alien Invasion themes. 'Interstellar' maybe one of the most popular well known movies.

The Scifi Horror genre

'Alien' heard us all scream 45 years ago today. Here's what it was like on opening day
https://www.space.com/alien-45th-annive … g-day-1979

The book 'Altered Carbon' the British cyberpunk novel by English writer Richard K. Morgan is followed by the sequels Broken Angels and Woken Furies.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-26 05:01:50)

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#1 2020-07-22 11:18:45

Hybernation using today's medical technology

#2 2020-07-23 03:13:47

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#3 2020-07-23 07:29:10

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#4 2020-07-23 10:37:57

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#5 2021-12-12 12:25:24

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#6 2022-06-03 08:39:25

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#7 2022-06-03 13:37:05

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#8 2022-07-03 13:53:48

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#9 2022-07-06 17:09:40

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#10 2022-07-06 20:40:42

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#11 2023-02-10 21:39:20

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#12 2023-03-19 18:00:56

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#13 2023-03-22 06:12:30

Re: Hybernation using today's medical technology

#14 2023-06-16 03:32:49

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#15 2024-05-26 04:05:21

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