A Mars currency

Scott Beach · 2022-07-14 18:06:19

Thomas,

The Federal Reserve is already planning to institute an electronic currency that it will have the power to inflate by 53,600 percent in one tenth of one second. How will you feel when your life savings is suddenly not enough to buy 1 stick of chewing gum?

You should not underestimate how evil they are.

tahanson43206 · 2022-07-15 06:57:09

For Scott Beach .... This topic is very specifically about Mars....

You've proposed using coins on Mars. I asked you a simple question. Why do you think that coins are a good idea?

You ** must ** have a reason, because you seem to be holding strong opinions on the subject.

I don't think coins are a good idea, but I don't know as much as you do about the subject, so I'm looking forward to reading your explanation.

(th)

Scott Beach · 2022-07-15 08:51:54

I would not object to one or more voluntary monetary systems. However, when a government makes a centralized system mandatory and outlaws all other systems then we are on the edge of a tyranny.

I have no objection to Bitcoin and other decentralized cryptocurrencies being used on Mars so long as such use is voluntary.

tahanson43206 · 2022-07-15 13:14:15

For Louis re topic ...

This topic originated in 2017 ....

Recently an older member brought it back into view with off-topic posts having little to do with your original concept for the topic.

I decided to go back to the beginning, to see what you might have had in mind ...

louis wrote:

A Mars currency could be set up fairly easily in my view and it would probably be desirable for it to be done, for a number of reasons:
1. Some way of rationing imported products will have to be found. You can't have a system where one person can simply grab as many clothes or soap or tomato ketchup as they want. It won't be long before the Mars community is quite a complex set up with Space X employees, contractors, university faculty members, space agency operatives, private individuals, TV crews,tourists and others mixing together. It would be difficult to maintain an army-style ration and supply system. A Mars currency would allow for rationing via price of scarce goods.

I stopped at item one ... you made an assertion that I am inviting you to support ...

Why ** can't ** you have a system where one person can grab as many items as they want?

That is exactly what we have on Earth today, in countless locations.

During Covid, folks loaded up on cleaning supplies until the stores ran out. They paid the going rate for those items, and many still have them in their closets and attic storage spaces.

If a person on Mars pays the going rate for an entire shipment of tomato ketchup, then the vendor is happy.

This means the demand is available for another shipment of that item at the earliest opportunity.

Meanwhile, residents can negotiate with the hoarder to see if there is something the resident has that the hoarder might need or want.

Oxygen or water come to mind, but there are probably other commodities that might work in this situation.

(tgh)

JohnX · 2022-07-15 15:02:16

tahanson, maybe Louis was comparing the initial money-less system with introducing a Mars currency. At first, the crew of the first few missions would just share around the food etc according to need, kind of rationing. But that gets difficult when there are 'strangers' or people take too much. So there has to be a currency and price tags, or else they develop a kind of gift and hospitality culture, an honour system. Now that would be interesting.

Whether or not settlements decide on minting coins or notes, I imagine they will still want the ability to transfer funds electronically.

In my basic economic self-education, I found that 'money only has value because we all agree that it has' - in other words it's a trust system.

A Martian works for a corporation for an agreed wage of (say) 1,000 M-credits per day, it's transferred to her account, and on the way home she stops at the Red Rock Cafe and orders a latte. Does the cafe owner accept her M-credits? Or insist on US dollars or something? Once the corporation has established its credibility, the cafe should be OK with the credits, since they know they can order their beans from the corporation using the same credits.
The worker then pays some more credits to a friend who drives her out to see the view from the rim of Valles Marineris. The friend can use the credits to pay to recharge his rover. And so on.
TO start with, how does the corporation invent the new currency? Would they issue some documents and set up a bank, paying some Earth currency in and recording the resulting exchange into M-credits? Not sure about this part. Any ideas?

tahanson43206 · 2022-07-16 06:39:50

For JohnX re #30

Thanks for contributing to the topic .... I hope that Louis will return to speak for himself...

No one has answered the simple quesiton ... why would anyone want a coin on Mars.

What is the purpose of this artificial device? I understand humans have been using various kinds of physical objects as legal tender for many thousands of year.

Gold and Silver have absolutely no value on Mars. Oxygen and water have value on Mars.

If you want to set some physical standard for measuring the value of a good or service, I would guess you would want to use an element (or molecule) that actually ** means ** something.

Please develop your thoughts further.

You seem to be on a useful track by imagining a bank on Mars.

You have as much right to set up a bank on Mars as anyone else.

The coast is clear. Please develop a bank for Mars.

Start with the basics ... in the context of Mars, what physical part of the Universe might be regarded by other people as of equal value.

Energy has been proposed in the past, but I ran across that idea so long ago I've lost track of it.

The essence of barter is that you have something of value that another person wants.

What could a bank on Mars hold that would have universally recognized value?

Gold and Silver are NOT useful on Mars, except for very advanced technology, and as a minor part at that.

(th)

JohnX · 2022-07-19 16:58:53

It would be an interesting exercise for someone who's studied economics or banking. That's not me though.
Certainly we would not want to use any life-support resources as currency (O2, H2O) since some acquisitive soul would come along and hoard it, then where would everyone else be?
Could some variation on bitcoins & blockchain encryption be the way forward? No physical objects need to be stored or transported.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-07-27 05:28:56

Chasing down missing Bitcoins (BTC) or chasing missing US Dollars, Yen, Euro, British Pounds, Russian Ruble? where did those Ethereum, Ripple, Dogecoin, Stellar, and Monero go?

Royal Bank ordered to reveal who's behind 97 offshore accounts
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/royal- … -1.6533070

Elon Musk's Tesla has sold 75% of its Bitcoin: Here's why
https://www.zdnet.com/article/elon-musk … heres-why/

El Salvador’s political clown show is looking really dangerous for bitcoin prices
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines … e-bitcoin/

A fake name, another shell company, Inside a front called trust, fake documents and another room and Inside another trust, stacked on cards then Inside a drawer in a building which moved from a previous faked address, Caribbean, Swiss and Isle of Man and other types involved. On the caimans, the scammer who made off with the cash, he said he was royal linked or Vatican or knew some bankers in Asia, South America but knows some international bank formally the District of Columbia some card trickster carnie guy but knows another guy in a Finance Corporation, but then Connected to the city of London a small city area within a city with its own laws outside of British influence, but then funds held in or invested, bags of cashing moving through the Bahamas?

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-28 09:04:08

First Country Bankrupted by Crypto? - It’s been a year since El Salvador adopted bitcoin as currency — things are not going well

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/cu … e-1388472/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-10-28 18:50:02

Musk & Twitter? Dogecoin surges 35%

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/27/dogecoi … close.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-10 16:50:04

The Marscoin twitter page

'Planetary Cryptocurrency - bootstrapping Mars settlement and planetary financial system for Mars'
https://twitter.com/marscoinorg
and it posts updates each month

Others arrive a virtual crypto coin called ethereum and monero, buy these new Dash, Zcash, Ripple, Litecoin then FTX suddenly crashed, 'NFT' imaginary law of fairytale dreams they want to sell you, no thanks. If Mars got its currency correct would it have the 'Gold Standard'.

We have always seen fictional currency in scifi and fantasy, some form of system of money defined, depictedsuch as novels, video game, filmsnames of units of such currency are sometimes based on extant or historic currencies "Altairian dollars" or "Earth yen" while other names, such as "Kalganids" in Asimov's Foundation series.

Mars economics could even be tested in virtual economy a synthetic AI game VR economy

You can also enter that murky world of addict and vices, in our video game world sometimes teens pay crazy money for a virtual potion or tech upgrade or access to some talk video virtual art and sound space advice on how to do a task.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016 … -gambling/

It's interesting that such things like Marscoin or Bitcoin exist, most Currency systems on our planet Earth push it to the edge almost ready to collapse, the ones that really mess up you see Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Lebanon. Currency allows people to get a fair price for their goods and services, it is possible most of the material traded will be essential items, these might never be traded on any stock market or galactic spanning stock exchange. Can you back a Mars currency with a commodity, if gold is rare then perhaps you can not use a gold backed currency. There is a possibility Mars will trade little with Earth but it might deliver Low-Tech items ready made to colonies on the Moon, the Asteroids, a Floating Titan city or Callisto, the needs for Survival, the fight and discover of this new Culture might arrive before the need for Profit.

I think as rules might become political restrictive on Earth a place like Mars could offer exploration of fringe sciences, too much regulatuion on AI or Stem Cells for example, Mars is also in better position to trade with Titan, Europa and the Asteroids.

Some thoughts by Louis on 'Economics of Mars'

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=9262

30-second economics

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-10 17:05:09)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-16 05:20:47

Rich Russians still transferring cash to Swiss bank accounts, investigation shows
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/euro … tion-shows

Elon Musk's Biography Unveils Why He's Not A 'Blockchain Acolyte' Despite Having Fun With Dogecoin
https://www.benzinga.com/markets/crypto … -with-doge

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-03-04 06:39:42

Trade?

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/ … -a-profit/

Could Elon Musk’s Mars colony turn a profit?

When SpaceX CEO Elon Musk speaks about making humanity a multi-planet species by founding a Mars colony, he gets positively mystical about his desire to “preserve the light of human consciousness.”
However, as a capitalist, Musk has to know that his dream of expanding human civilization to Mars has to turn a profit. Unlike the moon and asteroids, the answer to that question is not immediately obvious.
The economic case for going back to the moon resides in the opportunities to mine its abundant resources. According to Gizmodo, lunar resources include water, which future moon colonists could use for sustenance and rocket fuel, and helium 3, which could fuel future fusion reactors to create clean, emissions-free energy.
The asteroids have an even greater economic case. One such asteroid, 16 Psyche, is said to have $100,000 quadrillion dollars’ worth of metals. Its actual worth will be determined by a robotic space probe, due to arrive at the asteroid in August 2029.
The economic argument for going to Mars and founding a colony there is more complicated. Robert Zubrin, the author of “The Case for Mars,” has recently published a new book, “A New World on Mars.” He devotes an entire chapter seeking to establish how a Mars colony could be a profitable enterprise.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-04 12:01:48)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-25 07:38:45

Japanese dog of 'Doge' meme fame dies

https://japantoday.com/category/national/japanese-dog-of-'doge'-meme-fame-dies

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#26 2022-07-14 18:06:19

Re: A Mars currency

#27 2022-07-15 06:57:09

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#30 2022-07-15 15:02:16

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#31 2022-07-16 06:39:50

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#32 2022-07-19 16:58:53

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