Pitcairn Island - Mars Settlement Analogue

tahanson43206 · 2024-05-03 09:03:18

This new topic is set in the Mars Analogue Research Stations Category because is may be a model for more than one Mars settlement.

The web site for the Island is: https://government.pn

The following was entered into the contact form at the web site:

Pitcairn Island came up in a discussion at the NewMars.com/forums of the Mars Society.
The context is the model it provides for future settlements on Mars.
Environmental challenges will be significant on Mars.
On the ** other ** hand, Pitcairn Island has plenty of challenges.
Congratulations to everyone who has helped to keep the Island going.
tahanson43206
(Junior) Moderator
NewMars.com/forums

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-05-03 09:04:07

This post is reserved for an index to posts that may be contributed by residents of Pitcairn Island, or members of NewMars.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-05-03 09:22:09

I asked Google about tides at Pitcairn Island, and found that the range is 1 meter.

That amount of tide seems modest if the goal is to generate power.

https://www.tideschart.com/Pitcairn/

On the other hand, perhaps power might be generated by paddle wheel driven generators as water enters a long sluice, and the same paddles might capture energy from the same water flowing out.

NewMars members include one or two who are comfortable performing mathematics calculations.

I am hoping one of our members might be willing to estimate how much power might be captured using this method.

The sluice does not necessarily have to be located on the island itself, but instead it might be mounted adjacent to the existing land, depending upon the rate of drop off of the slope.

Another variation on the theme is buoys that lift with the tide and fall later. Those might be attached to the land.

The amount of energy to be harvested from a 1 meter tide seems likely to be modest, but we'll see.

Hopefully one of our members will find this question worth a bit of study.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-03 11:48:17

Tahanson, I am not sure what type of device you envisage or conceptualize, perhaps you imagine a 'Gate Sluice' an old town?
Hydraulic structure you see on Earth in old cities and the coastal areas.
My gut feeling is any type of Hydro Tidal is a waste of time on Mars but having some Liquid or Slurry maybe pumped or lifted into a Dam as a Gravity Storage Battery might not be so ridiculous in case of power going down and needing gravity power in 'emergency' on Earth there are times when Hydro has almost powered entire nations on a single source of energy and pumps and turbines systems can now operate at up to 90% efficiency.

I don't know if we will have Tidal or Hydro on Mars but other worlds like Jupiter's Europa and Saturn's Titan seem a near term possibility today. There are many ideas for colonies and power and I have thought before about a grid electric supply across Mars, we do not have wide spread power structures at the South Pole or High Altitudes or Desert Locations so we might also have difficulty with power generation at locations on Mars. In many other threads we had discussion of different methods of generating energy and storage of energy by gravity or by pressure or by battery etc. There are numerous topics across the board with a focus on certain issues but rarely everything about a subject and all its Permutation and Possiblity in one topic. If we have Nuclear or Solar on Mars then its possible these will have to be repaired or go offline for a time. Mars has less water and lower gravity, Mars might have some liquid water under glaciers or Valles Marineris, Hellas Basin or Planitia, Argyre Planitia, they think maybe just maybe that even today some kind of 'Liquid Water' might exist at Hellas where temperature and pressure might be just about right, there have been interesting photos taken from orbiting satellites around Mars. Our wonderful Earth has massive resources in flowing liquid and water 6 hours, the near and far locations of Earth move to where the low tides are occurring, and 6 hours later, those locations are back to the high-tide position, the Moon orbiting Earth approximately every 28 days, and in the same direction as Earth rotates, the time between high and low tides is actually about 12.5 hours there are sites on Earth giving tides and flows, US tides and currents and flood warnings
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/

On Earth the Moon’s gravitational force on a 1.0-kg mass located on the near side and another on the far side,
to examine Mass one = 1 Kg
Mass 2 Moon = 7.7 * 10^22 Kg
there is a 7% stronger gravitational force on the near side compared to the far side
This causes a net front-to-back differential gravitational force felt by the Earth, Stretches the Earth along the Moon-Earth line, Squeezes the Earth at right angles to this line F = G m1*m2/r2= 6.67 * 10−11 N⋅m2/kg2 if you change the Mass of the Moon with the the Mass of the Sun and look at the changes and the mean distance between the Earth and Sun difference between the near and far forces on a 1.0-kg mass due to the Moon has a much greater sized difference than the changes of range difference for the Sun and Earth, so the Moon is extremely important for Tides on Earth, however I have read that although the Moons of Mars are tiny Phobos 1 * 10^16 kg for example but they might have some effect the tides of Phobos might be doing 'something' to the internal structure of Mars, Phobos is expected to breakup due to tidal forces in some millions years, relatively near on astronomical scales of time. The gravity of Phobos is so low its not really worth talking about escape velocity on the surface of Phobos is approximately 11.4 m/s or 41 km/h while Moon is about 2.4 km (1.5 miles) per second at its surface or 2400 meters per second or 8640 km/h. If we find on Mars that some type of flowing water does exist then I have considered a type of Hydro power or Dam, I think Mars might always have certain limits not really tidal but perhaps some other liquids or chemicals could be mixed with Mars Dust the material mixed into a type of Sludge or Slurry and pumped upward like they do on construction sites or moved by buckets or archimedes wheel mechanism, the slurry could act as a type of gravity battery a type of electricity storage device that stores gravitational energy so that when Acid Battery or Solar or Lithium Battery or Nuclear goes offline you still have storage of Gravity and Liquid energy running through a Dynamo to power devices.

I have never been able to get a definite answer as to how much 'Water' or flowing liquid watery stuff is on Mars, they say it lost 87 percent of its ancient ocean and expect some water to be still somewhere but trapped. They say they see evidence of buried waters and visible at the surface at the polar ice cap. Overall I expect Water on Mars to be a Rare thing and people might object to waste of Liquids which are rare to gather and use, however we do not know the future maybe we will solve 'Fusion' and overtime chunks of ice-rocky material would perhaps be moved in the future, moved from the Asteroid belt or Comets or Rings of Saturn and broken up into a watery ice ring around Mars and deorbited.
Earth's gravity, equivalent to aprox 9.8 m/s2 expressed mathematically as F = G (m1m2/r2) surface gravity on the Moon measured to be 1.62 m/s2 , or 0.1654 g and Mars 0.38 times Earth's G, which works out to aprox 3.7 m/s2 Titan and Europa are not dry and thought to have a global ocean of liquid hydrocarbons or waters.
Mars is a dry desert planet, we do however expect flowing liquids to be on Europa and we know there are in fact rains and rivers and maybe Lakes and Oceans on Titan, flows of liquid ethane and methane Titan might have some other unique unseen hydrocarbon "methanological" cycles, Hydrogen cyanide, Butane an alkane with the formula C4H10, Benzene is an organic chemical compound some chemistry will boil, fall as snow, rain or freeze but a type of 'Hydro' power or Tidal power on Titan seems possible.

The clear answer to the flow of liquids and waters and powering generators seems to be Europa and Titan not Mars, the Moon of Jupiter Europa may contain twice as much water as Earth’s global ocean. Europa will have its own challenges perhaps plate glacier movement and radiation and Titan would have its own unique challenges keeping humans alive and materials working in such cold temperatures.
On Mars perhaps the use of CO2 or a gas steam device or another chemical as working fluid in power stations, water could be wasteful rather than something with a lower boiling point? on another world using another fluid the change in viscosity changes the behavior in the pipe system, you will have more friction losses, so for the same flow rate.
On Earth
The Four Pillars of Hydraulic Machine Efficiency
https://www.powermotiontech.com/hydraul … efficiency

heavy liquid, for example Mercury heaviest liquid at room temperature or liquid osmium, on another world the chemistry solution or liquid chemical substance with a high density and low viscosity?

A New Type of Battery, Made of Concrete
https://onezero.medium.com/the-new-supe … ee436ecc67

and

'pump a bunch of water up a big hill into a tank, then release it slowly at night, letting gravity do its work and running a turbine to generate energy as and when you need it.'
https://newatlas.com/energy/waterless-h … ity-hydro/
also dont use water

It uses a proprietary "high-tech fluid" it calls R-19, which it says is both environmentally neutral and 2.5 times as dense as water.
The result: you can generate the same power from just 40% of the elevation change, using tanks just 40% of the size.

'The hill chart is an important tool for the study of the turbine performance, the energy production as well as management and hydropower control.'
https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9199963

'Does Titan experience any tides in its oceans, or is it tidally locked with no tides?'
https://www.astronomy.com/science/does- … no-tides/#

QUOTE

'Titan’s surface deforms by more than 33 feet 10 meters'

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-03 13:49:22)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-03 13:39:39

Sometimes an internal military navy revolt among a group of people a crew protest, or of a irregular militia crew of pirates to oppose, change, or remove superiors. In Ferdinand Magellan's exploration there was mutiny resulting in the killing of one mutineer, the execution of another, and the marooning of other.

According to a British site

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/

https://www.legislation.gov.uk

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Mutiny

Army British Act 1955 states

Mutiny means a combination between two or more persons subject to service law, or between persons two at least of whom are subject to service law—

(a) to overthrow or resist lawful authority in Her Majesty's forces or any forces co-operating therewith or in any part of any of the said forces,
(b) to disobey such authority in such circumstances as to make the disobedience subversive of discipline, or with the object of avoiding any duty or service against, or in connection with operations against, the enemy, or
(c) to impede the performance of any duty or service in Her Majesty's forces or in any forces co-operating therewith or in any part of any of the said forces.

I don't think a buried Queen can give orders, they should probably change wording at some sites when the Queen is dead and replaced by a King.

The same British definition applies in the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force.

Pitcairn Islands speak English as we can see in videos and by themselves can be an example of isolation and self sufficiency and how to keep a place quarantined from invader species, they are on their own with Tahiti so far away 1,350 miles (2,170 km) the islands were annexed by France and claimed as a colony, French is the sole official language and the Tahitian language Reo Tahiti is also widely spoken, another isolated spot the Kerguelen Islands, also known as the Desolation Islands, are a group of islands in the sub-Antarctic to the East of Pitcairn the Easter Island site, administration is run by Chile Spanish speakers Isla de Pascua a special territory of Chilean government. The region can also be a study of environment collapse, a lack of animal knowledge or carelessness, threats to ecosystems and invasive species, for example the Polynesia Rat it cannot swim distances, so is considered to be a significant marker of the human expansion across the Pacific, as the Polynesians accidentally or deliberately introduced it to the islands they settled. To go from Pitcairn Islands to New Zealand you would travel 3439 miles or 5575.8 km

'How Two Rats Become 15,000 in a Year | National Geographic'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJA4IW_pkeo

it should be easier to keep something as big as a 'Rat' away from a Mars colony but something smaller might be introduced that damages an ecosystem, unwanted microalgae, the Varroa mite kept away from Australia but then invades and expected to cost billions in damages to the Australian economy.

There is a lot of info on these islands in the news

'HMS Tamar visits remote tropical island where her crew outnumber the inhabitants'
https://www.forces.net/services/navy/hm … nhabitants

'Green News: Pitcairn’s authorities have launched a renewable energy project'
https://www.spc.int/updates/blog/did-yo … ble-energy

Budget 2015: Pitcairn Islands get huge marine reserve
https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31943633

The Pitcairns are one of the most remote island groups in the world.

The Pew Charitable Trusts and the National Geographic Society, who campaign on the need for marine reserves, welcomed the news.

Pitcairn Island and descendants of mutineers
https://blog.geogarage.com/2013/03/pitc … ts-of.html

Rapid Assessment of Seabed Habitats Around Pitcairn Island in Aid of Activity Management During the COVID-19 Global Pandemic
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 … 40505/full

'The nearest continental land-masses are over 4,500km away, New Zealand to WSW and South America to the east.'
https://www.ukotcf.org.uk/southern-ocea … n-islands/

An idea of the Open Ocean, the Narrative of the Mutiny on the Bounty, was a bestseller, a film in Australia, titled In the Wake of the Bounty 1933, was the screen debut of Errol Flynn in the role of Christian.

The Bounty Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEaxoITrpWU

also

'Take Me To Pitcairn - Full Documentary'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr7MWxADnko

almost one hour long

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-03 14:07:38)

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#1 2024-05-03 09:03:18

Pitcairn Island - Mars Settlement Analogue

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Re: Pitcairn Island - Mars Settlement Analogue

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