Lets talk funding

Bill White · 2003-11-11 22:34:19

Searching "Zubrin" at Wikipedia lead me to this paper.

I was pleasantly surprised to see that this academic scholar shares much of my perspective about the difficulties of raising finance and funding for entering space. Although I would be more pleased if someone found a way to solve these issues.

More later but I encourage all to read this paper.

A teaser quote:

When space development enthusiasts describe how permanent human communities might be established in space, they often draw analogies to the European colonization of the Americas and to the ?winning? of the western frontiers of the United States and Canada, analogies which are often given a very contemporary libertarian spin. Complex historical processes are offered up as examples of the triumph of individualism and private enterprise.
The unspun truth about European colonization in the Americas, and in Asia and Africa, is that the state played a central role in all colonial enterprises. European colonies often emerged out of trading ventures organized as joint stock companies chartered by the colonizing state and in which the crown invested both its prestige and its capital. Colonial territory was conquered and defended by soldiers and sailors paid either by the colonizing state or the local colonial state. Plantations and mines were often directly owned by the local colonial state. Trading monopolies and tax privileges granted by the colonizing state to the local colonial state were used to attract capital investment. Indeed, conceptual distinctions between public and private economic activity which seem so clear today were much less clear in the heyday of colonialism.
The unspun truth about the ?winning? of the western frontiers of the United States and Canada make for even poorer libertarian dramas. Notwithstanding all the hardy pioneers in their covered wagons, the western frontier of the United States was really ?won? by the U.S. Army and the construction of the railroads which were capitalized by enormous Federal land grants.[5] Similarly, the western frontier of Canada was ?won? by cash grants, subsidies, loans, and the guarantee of bond issues by the Canadian government to finance the construction of the railroads.
A better historical analogy for establishing permanent human communities in space is actually provided by one of the greatest civil engineering project of this century--the construction of the Panama Canal.

Bill White · 2003-11-12 11:55:29

Somewhat more seriously, once the folks at Bechtel or Kellogg, Brown and Root (Halliburton) complete the rebuilding of Iraq perhaps they would be interested in a $500 billion or $1 trillion dollar contract to build a Mars settlement.

Somewhat more seriously. . .

Gennaro · 2003-11-13 23:10:08

Hey, I was planning to write a post exactly along those lines.
Not only is the metaphor of how the west was won usually misplaced, because it wasn't made for the adventure but for material gain, but also, nothing will ever be achieved as long as we live in a one world society where the prevailing ideology forbids the state to drive economical progress.

Wim · 2003-11-16 05:57:33

Somewhat more seriously, once the folks at Bechtel or Kellogg, Brown and Root (Halliburton) complete the rebuilding of Iraq perhaps they would be interested in a $500 billion or $1 trillion dollar contract to build a Mars settlement.
Somewhat more seriously. . .

You mean they will invest their own money in a Mars-base ?? ??? I don't think so. Who will pay them to construct it ?
Or am I misunderstanding your statement ?

Bill White · 2003-11-16 16:22:05

Somewhat more seriously, once the folks at Bechtel or Kellogg, Brown and Root (Halliburton) complete the rebuilding of Iraq perhaps they would be interested in a $500 billion or $1 trillion dollar contract to build a Mars settlement.
Somewhat more seriously. . .
You mean they will invest their own money in a Mars-base ?? ??? I don't think so. Who will pay them to construct it ?
Or am I misunderstanding your statement ?

These companies might well have the political clout and the ability to make the necessary campaign contributions to persuade the US Congress to appropriate taxpayer money.

clark · 2003-11-18 11:09:34

These companies might well have the political clout and the ability to make the necessary campaign contributions to persuade the US Congress to appropriate taxpayer money.

Which makes one wonder why space advocates don't do a better job of organizing into a politcal group. ???

If Civil rights had waited around till private industry had decided that Civil Rights was profitable, Rosa Parks would still be waiting for a seat.

Wim · 2003-11-18 14:06:30

Space Frontier Foundation president Rick Tumlinson did say on the testimony to the US senate that when you 'try' to negotiate with a private company to do a spacetrip of some kind, there are giggles in the crowd. (not his exact words)
Some company that's not space-related gets asked to invest in a spaceship or a spacetrip think about the money first (which still now is billions of $$) and then about the project and it is too bad it's not yet the other way around.
Maybe the X-prize will change that in a couple of years ...

clark · 2003-11-21 08:52:34

I wonder how hard it would be to get one of those 'cancer' stamp type deals. You know that thing where people can buy cdertain stamps, and part of the procceds go to the whatever casue the stamp represents.

Nice little stamp with a picture of Mars. I'd collect one.

Bill White · 2003-11-21 11:11:44

I wonder how hard it would be to get one of those 'cancer' stamp type deals. You know that thing where people can buy cdertain stamps, and part of the procceds go to the whatever casue the stamp represents.
Nice little stamp with a picture of Mars. I'd collect one.

I agree with this approach. Establish a political/marketing campaign to encourage millions of people to believe they are part of the program. Its called "emotional branding"

Many space advocates, however, embrace a libertarian philosophy. They seek to escape the mass of humanity rather than recruit the rank and file of mankind.

Why do people by branded ibuprofen rather than generic? Its made by the same factory and the FDA certifies it has the same health benefits. There is no logical difference yet a huge emotional difference. Which means huge sales volume for Motrin or Advil.

That is "emotional branding" -- we need to create a space based emotional brand identity.

clark · 2003-11-21 11:21:17

Mars Day? Sometime in the summer-consumer-holiday-slump?

Space Day? National Holiday commemorating the sacrifices and achievments made by those pushing the boundaries of mankind's reach?

A non-profit entity similar to Nobel Prizes that bestow honor and recognition for those individuals, or groups who have contributed in moving people further into space.

A line of beany-baby style dolls, except with a space theme- robots, martians, astronaut animals....

Calling cards?

Credit Card lines where a portion of sales go to the 'cause'?

A deal with airline companies to trade in frequent flyer miles towards a donation to getting man to mars... 'you help fly us there'.

Use Devon Island and other locals as Summer Camp for disadvantaged kids to teach them about space and mars. Great PR, no?

Bill White · 2003-11-21 12:18:15

Mars Day? Sometime in the summer-consumer-holiday-slump?
Space Day? National Holiday commemorating the sacrifices and achievments made by those pushing the boundaries of mankind's reach?
A non-profit entity similar to Nobel Prizes that bestow honor and recognition for those individuals, or groups who have contributed in moving people further into space.
A line of beany-baby style dolls, except with a space theme- robots, martians, astronaut animals....
Calling cards?
Credit Card lines where a portion of sales go to the 'cause'?
A deal with airline companies to trade in frequent flyer miles towards a donation to getting man to mars... 'you help fly us there'.
Use Devon Island and other locals as Summer Camp for disadvantaged kids to teach them about space and mars. Great PR, no?

If the goal is to calculate the proper angle to accomplish aero-capture, hire an expert. Someone from JPL or somewhere like that.

If the goal is to raise billions of dollars by tapping into the global economy (perhaps via emotional branding) hire an expert, and this expert would NOT be a scientist, IMHO.

If David Stern (National Basketball Association) decided to accomplish humans to Mars he could raise $50 billion over a ten to twenty year period just from marketing / broadcast rights. What about ABC/Disney? TimeWarner/CNN/AOL?

Nike is the ideal sponsor. What is their slogan? Just Do It!

Humans to Mars? Lets Just Do It!

clark · 2003-11-21 12:27:09

How about Grey Poupon?

"[Mars], anything less would be uncivilized" :laugh:

Or how about that oldy for the Burger King Whopper?

"Where's the beef?" Cut to an astronaut eating a burger in a capsule, zoom out to his face inside the capsule on Mars.

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#1 2003-11-11 22:34:19

Re: Lets talk funding

#2 2003-11-12 11:55:29

Re: Lets talk funding

#3 2003-11-13 23:10:08

Re: Lets talk funding

#4 2003-11-16 05:57:33

Re: Lets talk funding

#5 2003-11-16 16:22:05

Re: Lets talk funding

#6 2003-11-18 11:09:34

Re: Lets talk funding

#7 2003-11-18 14:06:30

Re: Lets talk funding

#8 2003-11-21 08:52:34

Re: Lets talk funding

#9 2003-11-21 11:11:44

Re: Lets talk funding

#10 2003-11-21 11:21:17

Re: Lets talk funding

#11 2003-11-21 12:18:15

Re: Lets talk funding

#12 2003-11-21 12:27:09

Re: Lets talk funding

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