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#26 2023-06-15 17:20:44
- tahanson43206
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Re: Public transport
For Terraformer re #25
Thanks ** very ** much for the link to the story about the bicycle railroad that was so far ahead of it's time!
(th)
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#27 2023-06-16 03:07:45
- Terraformer
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Re: Public transport
It's pretty cool how it's not a hypothetical system. We *know* it can work at 60mph -- and with a wooden support rail. And the reason we don't know how it fares at 100mph is that the track was too short (but 60mph is plenty for commuter rail). It's a proven system, even if the proof mysteriously burned down.
Whilst it certainly is possible, as Boynton pointed out, to use the guide rail to lean into curves, that would add significant complexity and hence cost to construction. For a low speed tram or mid speed (<40mph?) rural system, I don't think that's needed. Rural lines have quite big turnining radii; taking a 1000 m curve at 20 m/s means a sideways acceleration of 0.4 m/s^2, about 50% more than you'd experience at the surface of Ceres. Probably not worth trying to tilt the train over.
Use what is abundant and build to last
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#28 2023-06-16 05:17:32
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
The first Hyperloop trainline between Shanghai and Hangzhou?
https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science … stinations
the idea of a type of Railgun Train has been discussed for getting product into Low Lunar Orbit from the Surface of the Moon. Maybe a Rail system made inside an empty cave or Lava tube and then ship product to assemble a structured system in orbit and send product to other parts of the Solar system.
In current US politics an Admin that seen many port and shipping delays, chemical accident.
Biden administration gives out $570 million in grants to eliminate railroad crossings across US
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden- … ossings-us
Futurist culture or Dystopia culture the 'Robot Taxis and Robot Truckers'
Kodiak Robotics | Autonomous Trucking, Are We There Yet?
https://marketscale.com/industries/tran … there-yet/
On Earth monster sized flying machines deliver product, a 1920s flying boat the Dornier Do X, Lockheed Galaxy, Airbus Beluga, Boeing 747, Airbus A380,
the last of the Antonov An-225 which carried the 'Buran' Shuttle now bombed in the War and Invasion of Ukraine
another discussion
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=4856
Methods to Lunar Orbit
Power outage causes train delays around Seoul
https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20230616000559
Greek prime minister apologizes over country’s deadliest train crash
https://www.canindia.com/one-more-victi … ts-to-290/
and what if India culture runs the tracks on Mars, a culture of accidents maybe you can thank mix of Hindu national and political corruption?
One more victim of Odisha train tragedy succumbs, toll mounts to 290
https://www.canindia.com/one-more-victi … ts-to-290/
India did not always have the worst train disasters, there was Sri Lanka, France and Romania, some deaths go back to a time before documents and paper work, there is a legend or recorded story of a 'Wanggongchang Explosion' and transport of gun powder that killed 20 thousand but that was hundreds of years before true railway and the British merchants made the first railroad in China in 1865. The Soviet Vereshchyovka train disaster one of the deadliest train disaster in Russian history, the Halifax Explosion a shipping disaster Nova Scotia, Canada is another huge accident or death toll event recorded in modern history, an estimated 9,000 others were injured, if it were a similar event on a Mars colony perhaps all 9 thousand would be lost.
The South Pole Antarctica is an interesting place, it seems to have unofficial roads, more like 'Dirt Tracks'.
'A Tour of McMurdo Station'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NXNwYVD45g
I live in Antarctica and survive in -57°C without seeing the sun for more than 3 Months
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech … ONTHS.html
Matty Jordan shares tales of battling blizzards at Ross Island in Antarctica
Today the South Pole is peaceful and different cultures have an understanding.
A fight almost broke out in past times over claims but the only attempts of civilian settlements in Antarctica having humans were the Argentinian-administered Esperanza Base and Chilean-administered Villa Las Estrellas, claims have been scaled back in respect to the new Protocol on Environmental Protection to the Antarctic Treaty. A team led by German architect Frei Otto back in 1971 made a feasibility study for an air-supported city dome two kilometers across that could house 40,000 residents at the South Pole.
Transport on Mars?
' Planetary transportation Topic, Trains on Mars - Could a rail system provide martian need '
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=3501
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-06-16 05:53:36)
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#29 2023-06-16 08:19:33
- Calliban
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Re: Public transport
It's pretty cool how it's not a hypothetical system. We *know* it can work at 60mph -- and with a wooden support rail. And the reason we don't know how it fares at 100mph is that the track was too short (but 60mph is plenty for commuter rail). It's a proven system, even if the proof mysteriously burned down.
Whilst it certainly is possible, as Boynton pointed out, to use the guide rail to lean into curves, that would add significant complexity and hence cost to construction. For a low speed tram or mid speed (<40mph?) rural system, I don't think that's needed. Rural lines have quite big turnining radii; taking a 1000 m curve at 20 m/s means a sideways acceleration of 0.4 m/s^2, about 50% more than you'd experience at the surface of Ceres. Probably not worth trying to tilt the train over.
Once the vehicle is moving, the wheels will provide gyroscopic force that will keep the train upright.
The relatively slender nature of the track should make it possible to build the track in modular sections, which are then transported to the required location and bolted or welded together. Much quicker than casting in place. The support pillars can be reinforced concrete. The lower rail could be a standard dimension rail, mounted onto an I-beam for bending resistance. The upper rail could be a cable. The arrangement easily lends itself to electrification. The upper balancing rail or cable could be electrified to say 750v DC. The lower rail would provide return current, earthing through the pillars.
This transpirtation concept is a desirable option for Mars or the moon as it keeps the vehicle away from the abrasive regolith. Direct electrification also avoids the needs for syntyetic fuels, which would be an expensive investment of energy.
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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#30 2023-06-16 11:24:18
- Terraformer
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Re: Public transport
The arrangement easily lends itself to electrification.
As was pointed out when it was first developed 
I was a bit iffy on it when I thought that it would need frequent support pillars, but then I looked at pictures of suspension railways where the supports are 20-30m apart, and they're supporting the entire weight of the vehicle not just stopping it from tipping. So I don't think the pillars are going to be all that obstrusive. Would taller be better, given that the support pole on the vehicle is effectively a lever? I suppose we'll want it to be fairly high clearence if it's going to be electrified. In an urban setting the supports shouldn't be any more noticeable than lamposts (which they could of course double as, especially if they're electrified -- might as well if we can do that).
Use what is abundant and build to last
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#31 2023-06-16 11:58:28
- Calliban
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Re: Public transport
750v DC can jump about half an inch. So the upper rail or cable doesn't need to be high above the track. There is little danger of arcing. The support beams for the upper rail should not be any longer than strictly necessary - a longer beam will experience a higher bending moment from any lateral force. You need the beams to be relatively stiff if you are using an upper cable or rail for stabilisation.
The supports need to be high enough to allow clearance for any vehicles passing underneath. Reinforced concrete is the cheapest option, but must be designed to exclude bending moments in the columns. Vibration and cyclic loads might also be a concern, as both could lead to eventual cracking. That is a question for a civil engineer.
The obvious advantage of an elevated railway is the you don't need to clear everything in its path or tunnel through the Earth. The railway can pass over streets and even over buildings. It can also presumably avoid gradients, which are a severe limitation to conventional railways. Ascending a gradient as small as 1°, increases the power needed to drive the vehicle by an order of magnitude. Eliminate gradients, and the power needed to propel a rail vehicle becomes trivial. Gradients can also result in slippage, which does a lot of damage to the track.
In the SE England, most track is electrified with 750v DC. The power that can be delivered to the train is limited to 3MW. How much will the bike train weigh? From the link I referenced yesterday, a 48 passenger tram weighs 12te. Taking rolling resistance to be 0.001 and assuming a speed of 60mph (27m/s), the power needed to keep the train at constant speed would be 3.2kW. Suppose we want to accelerate to 60mph in 30 seconds. We need additional power of 146kW. Using DC 750v, we therefore have enough power to accelerate trains carrying hundreds of people. It would make sense to design the bicycle train to include some really efficient braking energy recovery. This would reduce the peak power that must be supplied from the power rail.
Last edited by Calliban (2023-06-16 12:12:14)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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#32 2023-06-17 05:58:05
- Terraformer
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Re: Public transport
Regarding construction, I expect the Victorian engineers would have been very grateful if they'd had laser spirit levels back then.
I think we would start with the support posts (after clearing the route). Gettting them to the same height shouldn't be *too* hard now that we have laser spirit levels, and they'll be the hardest to adjust afterwards. Then the upper rail, which can be used to guide the track -- acting as a mini suspension railway, we can make sure the trackbed is a constant distance away from it, and so is at the same gradient as the upper rail which is at the same gradient as the support posts, and then a laser mounted to it will help align the rail as it is laid. Most difficult thing to change is done first, everything else calibrated to it. If the upper rail is strong enough, maybe it can be used as a suspension railway to move certain materials and equipment along during construction, like the rails. A railway that bootstraps itself.
For slow freight, I think it's hard to beat Ewing's system, the simplest railway ever built. Good option for movable forest railways. Moving at 10mph, you need it to be 6 trucks long to have the same capacity at a truck on a highway; I think it can manage that. Alignment is less of an issue -- you want it to be straight and flat, yes, but an error there is just going to cost energy, it won't derail it, and you're not going to be going fast. May even be worth downgrading our motorways to dual carriageways so we can convert a couple of lanes to monorails and get the trucks off the roads...
EDIT: It just occured to me that the freight cars used could be designed to work both on rail or road, since they would have to have tyres anyway. A suitably designed system could make transition between the two as simple as unhooking it from the locomotive and hooking it up to a truck. Probably a lot cheaper than a tunnel next to Stonehenge.
Last edited by Terraformer (2023-06-17 06:40:24)
Use what is abundant and build to last
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#33 2023-08-28 07:35:54
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
Federal grants will replace tunnels beneath roads that let water pass but not fish
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ap-b … 94010.html
The Biden administration announced nearly $200 million in federal infrastructure grants
South Korea to hold first nationwide defense drills in 6 years amid North threats
https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1820498/s … th-threats
Spain and Portugal could finally be getting a high-speed train link
https://www.timeout.com/news/spain-and- … ink-081523
Some Airport control glitch ‘failure’ hits all British airports, some issue has caused hundreds of flights to be diverted or disrupted
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/dfa … 5e04u.html
UK airports, including London Heathrow, appear to be significantly limiting departures.
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#34 2023-12-02 08:57:32
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
Nearly 60 injured in chain collisions of 5 buses
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation … 62503.html
Ferry operators around the country to receive $220M in federal grants to modernize fleets
https://greensboro.com/news/nation-worl … a0fc3.html
Millions in grant funding will help states across the U.S. boost and modernize ferry service in rural communities
The Digest: Tech CEO Pitches Boeing a Flying Train Concept
https://futurism.com/the-byte/flying-tr … kka-boeing
It's a plane! It's a train! It's...kinda both?
From runway to railroad: 'Flying trains' with detachable wings could soon let planes drop passengers off at local stations
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech … wings.html
Public transport on Mars or Europa or Titan would mean a form of government and local offworld authority or an authority linked to a government investing from Earth and a system of transport for use by the general public maybe human Colonist or Cyborg unlike private transport it would be state controlled, typically managed on a schedule, operated on established route. Long ago Kingdoms and Governments used horse-drawn vehicle these vehicles got replaced by trams and cars and train and other modern technology, sometimes public and private rail will share a railway with freight trains. At some stations and ports you might find a 'People Mover' like you see in Entertainment Theme Parks, Light rail is common in cities, Gondola lift, Cable car, Aerial tramway are sometimes popular in Mountain Resorts where people practice winter sports, they are used by mining towns or by tourists who visit the ancient fortress and castles that are difficult to access. Pegasus Field in on the Ross Ice Shelf, it is or maybe was? an airstrip in Antarctica, serving McMurdo Station, the ice road between Pegasus Field and McMurdo Station is about 23 kilometres (14 mi) landings have happened in Antarctica using night-vision goggles, science people who would over winter would start burning barrels of fuel to outline the runway. Six wheel vehciels have been used at the South Pole.
The Japanese adventurer Shinji Kazama travelled to the South Pole from Patriot Hills on the Antarctic coastline on a specially modified Yamaha motorcycle in 24 days from 10 December 1991 to 3 January 1992. He was supported by a snowmobile that carried emergency supplies and offered occasional assistance over rough terrain
https://web.archive.org/web/20061128092 … ger.co.uk/
Gyrobus Vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ypfvTtmgOo
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-02 09:06:39)
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#35 2023-12-03 07:03:09
- Calliban
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Re: Public transport
The gyrobus is a concept that could make a comeback. It is essentially an electric bus without the unsustainable batteries or capital intensive rails and catenaries required by tram systems. It is light on infrastructure and shouid also be cheap to build, which keeps capital costs under control. When these were in use in the 50s and 60s, flywheels were made from alloy steels. We have glass fibre composits now with much improved specific strength. So energy storage capacity of flywheels has improved.
Energy efficiency could be improved if the weight of the bus were supported by a central monorail embedded in the road. Outer wheels then provide balance. This can be done relatively cheaply, as there are no issues with guage and if the vehicle derails its weight is transfered to tyres.
Flywheel buses may do more for the energy transition than the electric car in the poorer world we are heading into. We need systems that combine low capital cost with low operating cost. Those systems also need to be suitable for incremental buildout. So we start with diesel buses and gradually phase in gyrobuses on suitable routes. We add monorails into the existing road system incrementally. This allows the number of charging stations at bus stops to be reduced and also increases the average speed of the bus.
Most of the historic problems of the gyrobus could be solved through the introduction of more modern glass fibre based flywheel technology. Safety is less of a concern, because catastrophic failure of a glass fibre flywheel results in a container full of molten sand, rather than generating dangerous shrapnel. Weight and energy consumption would be reduced as well.
Last edited by Calliban (2023-12-03 07:26:57)
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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#36 2023-12-10 09:45:52
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
Different investment on Earth the France Métro, Seoul South Korea, Germany, Madrid Spain, Australia, Singapore
The world’s longest metro and subway systems
German travel chaos blamed on lack of investment in railways
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ … n-railways
Travellers advised to cancel journeys as heavy snow brings much of country’s rail network to a halt
Rapid urbanisation around the world has resulted in the construction of dozens of new metro and subway systems or the expansion of existing ones.
https://www.railway-technology.com/feat … s-4144725/
Article from 2019 before the Russian invasion of Ukraine and Western sanctions on Russia
'Moscow metro expansion funding announced'
https://www.railwaygazette.com/projects … 76.article
Why does transit infrastructure cost so much in the U.S.?
https://www.marketplace.org/2022/03/28/ … n-the-u-s/
The MTA also released a feasibility study from 2020 — totaling nearly 4,000 pages — looking into the cost and viability of platform doors. It estimated that installing platform doors at 128 stations (roughly a quarter of all MTA stations) would cost somewhere in the ballpark of $7 billion.
It costs a lot to build in the U.S.
“We do spend a lot more money here in this country, and it seems to be particularly acute in New York. But the kind of a cost per mile of building new transit, you know, is substantially higher than other developed countries with similar economies and democratic structures,” said Paul Lewis, policy director of the Eno Center for Transportation, a nonprofit think tank.
11 Thomson-East Coast Line stations to open.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo … ns-2994101
Napier station along the Thomson-East Coast line. The station is surrounded by landmarks such as the Singapore Botanic Gardens and Gleneagles Hospital.
Melbourne’s $12bn Metro Tunnel to open in September 2024, builder lets slip
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n … ember-2024
One station, two terminals: development of Madrid’s Puerta de Atocha-Almudena Grandes and Chamartín-Clara Campoamor
https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/art … -stations/
The Spanish high-speed rail network, whose first section was commissioned in 1992 between Madrid and Seville, now totals more than 4,000km and comprises four radial corridors originating in Madrid.
The Community of Madrid approves the first investment for the construction of Metro to Madrid Nuevo Norte
https://www.metromadrid.es/en/press-rel … uevo-norte
How Spain became the arena for high-speed rail competition
https://www.railway-technology.com/feat … n/?cf-view
The Madrid-Barcelona high-speed route in Spain currently has four operators battling it out for customers: something of a triumph for anti-monopoly efforts on the railways.
IFC Makes Record Investment in Romania to Boost Private Sector Growth, Build Resilience
https://pressroom.ifc.org/all/pages/Pre … x?ID=27790
IFC — a member of the World Bank Group — is the largest global development institution focused on the private sector in emerging markets.
Building Strong Cities Through Investments in Public Transit
https://www.infrastructure.gc.ca/plan/ptif-fitc-eng.php
Private Investment for Public Transport: Sao Paulo’s Linha 4 Leads the Way
https://www.wri.org/insights/private-in … -leads-way
A rapid transit system is finally being built in the Colombian capital Bogotá
https://www.npr.org/2023/09/19/12002914 … tal-bogota
Openings and Construction Starts Planned for 2023
https://www.thetransportpolitic.com/202 … -for-2023/
Denmark Copenhagen Metro, CPH Metro sets new passenger record
https://cphpost.dk/2022-12-14/news/cph- … er-record/
With over 100 million passengers expected by the end of the year, the record set three years ago will be thoroughly smashed
Chilean capital’s metro network enters an era of expansion
https://www.railjournal.com/in_depth/ch … expansion/
Santiago is already home to South America’s most extensive metro, and with two new lines nearing completion and a third planned, the network is set to expand to eight lines totalling 174km. Ian Thomson Newman reports.
and on the Bus subject
'It’s Electric! Battery Buses Then and Now'
https://www.sfmta.com/blog/its-electric … en-and-now
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-10 09:47:13)
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#37 2024-03-05 10:32:07
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
On Mars maybe Train Tracks, messages transmitted on Balloon, Bikes or Truck with Continuous track or tracked treads or tires?
public funded drone delivery
Drone Delivery Startup Zipline Boosts Valuation To $4.2 Billion
https://www.forbes.com/sites/alexkonrad … 4-billion/
The cash infusion comes as Zipline announced a new autonomous drone, the Platform 2, that it said could carry eight pounds of cargo at a range of 10 miles. Most ecommerce packages weigh five pounds or less, cofounder and CEO Keller Rinaudo Cliffton said in an interview last month. The aircraft, also known as a P2 Zip, is capable of charging on a docking station that resembles a lamppost. The company announced fast-casual food chain Sweetgreen, Michigan Medicine and several other health systems as partners.
or a Japan colony with public funded cars and bus?
Toyota Lunar Cruiser To Explore The Moon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4ukKVEZQ1Y
back on Earth
Guided Visit of McGill Station on Montreal's Réseau Express Métropolitain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGZHBYFVSEs
"Better views from the train... than from anywhere else" | Honolulu Skyline
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szA9gZF4XwE
Hanoi Metro - Vietnam Brand New Urban Rail Line
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj3_tXhNI2g
Korean, Transfer at Daegok Station
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LUgMjV7cMU
'Working Is Duty': French PM Tells Rail Workers Ahead Of Holiday Strike
https://www.barrons.com/news/working-is … e-abf2bbfb
Public transport workers join climate activists for week of strikes across Germany
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/ … ss-germany
The protests, covering all German states except Bavaria, will involve 90,000 workers from 130 municipal transport organisations and will demand better working conditions, higher pay and investments of about €100bn by 2030, to double current capacity, with organisers calling for a “social justice transport transformation”. They will focus on the need for more political will to prioritise sustainable transport and a commitment to provide the necessary funding for this.
Andreas Schackert of Verdi, representing bus and train workers, said some local transport services were on the verge of collapse due to a lack of workers and this would have a knock-on effect on Germany’s ability to reduce its carbon emissions.
“Public transport is an important lever when it comes to tackling climate change,” he said.
According to the association of German transport companies, 110,000 additional workers are needed in the public transport sector over the next six years to cope with a chronic staff shortage and reported high levels of stress and burnout among existing workers.
In cities including Berlin, services have recently had to be cut back due to a lack of drivers.
“In order to counteract this, working conditions and wages need to drastically improve,” said Darya Sotoodeh, of Fridays for Future Germany. “Expansion of public transport is a decisive factor in this so that emissions in local public transport in particular, can be reduced.”
She said instead of seeking improvements, transport companies were trying to keep workers’ wages low at a time when the attractiveness of jobs in the sector needed to rise.
Fridays for Future, founded by Greta Thunberg in 2018, has struggled to find its momentum since the pandemic, which put a stop to its Friday “strike” protests, but linking up with socially relevant causes is a strategy it hopes will enable it to regain its relevance.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-05 10:33:53)
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#38 2024-03-23 13:40:48
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
No boats or subs on Mars unless someone makes an artificial Lake inside a biosphere. Maybe on Titan or Europe a sub or boat brings a car which drives on higher ground, the Roll-on/roll-off ships are cargo ships designed to carry wheeled cargo, such as cars, motorcycles, trucks, semi-trailer trucks, buses, trailers.
back on Earth
Gov. Kathy Hochul claims National Guard subway plan ‘working as expected,’ even after man shot with own gun on train
https://nypost.com/2024/03/16/us-news/h … -expected/
Black Swan cargo drone carries 800 pounds for 1550 miles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyGPRvN-kSk
delivery better than a Zeppelin type of rigid airship
362.9 kg and 2494.4 km for those in metric
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-23 13:44:20)
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#39 2024-04-01 16:17:51
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
Moon railway concepts commissioned
https://www.railwaygazette.com/infrastr … 75.article
on the idea of USA urban designs vs EU urban designs I will say this, US large populated Cities have more practicle economic construction stacking with the 'Skyscraper' the continuously occupied, habitable and office building having multiple floors, being at least 100 meters (330 ft) or 150 meters (490 ft) in height, maybe Europeans asthetically wanted to keep the heritage of their old cities, maybe they were afraid of losing buildings again duirng the ColdWar and memories of WW2 bombings. The Eiffel Tower is still one of the tallest structures in Europe but dwarfed of course by US Skyscapers, Asian towers, Middle East, Russian and Turkish buildings, not building up causes an Urban Suburan sprawl where concrete and country side start to mix but you do not have these concrete towers.
Now if you want to keep tradition and old heritage of urban buildings and modernize and make new cities and how you plan that urban area is a wshole other debate. You can't really say that tallest Tower the skyscraper in capital of the Emirate of Dubai is 'nice', people will tell you about this garbage smell, human excrement, a chemistry odor smell of a trash dump, a sweaty rotting camel sand smell, the pungent odors of human urine stuck to the air even though it should take in fresher air from the sea
Why Dubai Has a Poop Truck Traffic Jam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syK7u_QQKk8
yes it is wealthy but many complaints, 'Sharia Law' and adverts telling people to buy in, propped up with a house of cards, fake advertising on instagram and other social media
THE DARK SIDE OF DUBAI | DIRTY MONEY PARADISE | THE WORST CITY ON EARTH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guCKJ-TWIjE
'Is Everything Wrong With Society'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJqqw1S8nHI
Dubai Has No Sewage System - Burj Khalifa
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no9LSCE2MMQ
Keeping the old European city? there are places in Europe, North Africa the Middle East and Asia that are poor but they still have an old spectacular urban beauty compared to designs of the new world construction.
Maybe Europe did it for visual 'taste' to keep the old city skyline 'nice' and preservation of tradition and heritage. When someone puts up a tall building in Europe it can look extremely ugly next to the old city. I believe if you counted a list of top 100 tallest Skyscraper buildings not one of them would be in Europe although maybe Poland once had a very tall Soviet Radio Propaganda Mast, other countries such as Japan might not build high monster buildings because they are Earthquake Zones.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-04-01 16:49:52)
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#40 2024-04-07 13:04:01
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
Swiss Parliament greenlights Lötschberg-Simplon Railway tunnel expansion
https://www.trasportoeuropa.it/english/ … expansion/
The mole people also called tunnel people or tunnel dwellers used to describe homeless people living under large cities in abandoned subway, railroad, flood, sewage tunnels, and heating shafts
'Dark Days'
https://web.archive.org/web/20021220135 … ature.html
Amy Goodman interviewed ‘Dark Days’ director Marc Singer for indieWIRE during the 2000 Sundance Film Festival where the film won the Audience Award, the Freedom of Expression Award, and shared the cinematography Award. ‘Dark Days’ opens at the Film Forum in New York
https://web.archive.org/web/20170613231 … ilm-81444/
Under Las Vegas: Tunnels Stretch for Miles
https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/las-ve … id=8652139
Darker side of 'Sin City': Homeless live in tunnels beneath the strip.
Homeless found living in furnished caves in California and ongoing state crisis
Under a River or Along a River
'People Found Living in Caves'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMpCsJzWMx8
California caves dug out by people experiencing homelessness has the community and city officials concerned for the safety of those living underneath the Tuolumne River. The discovery also brings to the forefront the state's ongoing crisis with unhoused people
‘Dangerous’ cave found in Edmonton’s river valley was purposely dug out for shelter: police
https://globalnews.ca/news/10353662/edm … er-valley/
Inside home of the ‘last cave people’ where entire town is hidden in giant 750ft deep chasm and residents refuse to move
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/27031296/ … ve-people/
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-04-07 13:10:42)
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#41 2024-04-13 05:51:06
- Mars_B4_Moon
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- Registered: 2006-03-23
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Re: Public transport
In a major milestone for local manufacturing in Western Australia, the State's first locally built and manufactured METRONET C-series train is now ready for passenger services
https://www.wa.gov.au/government/media- … s-20240318
Metro Underground Subway Glasgow Scotland
Reviewing the new Glasgow Subway trains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzjTit_noRc
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#42 2024-04-15 15:52:44
- Terraformer
- Member
- From: The Fortunate Isles
- Registered: 2007-08-27
- Posts: 4,007
- Website
Re: Public transport
My proposal is for a hybrid solution. This would involve a single steel slotted rail installed down the middle of a road lane, sunk into the road surface like a conventional tram rail. The bus running down the lane would be equipped with rubber tyres like a conventional bus. However, it would also have steel drive wheels running down the centre of the chassis. When the bus enters a lane equipped with a steel rail, hydraulics will push the steel wheels down into the slotted rail. The steel wheels will be pushed down until they support about 80% of the weight of the bus. The rubber wheeled tyres remain in contact with the road, providing stability. With steel wheels on steel rails having 1/10th of the rolling reistance of rubber tyres, the rolling resistance of the bus (and fuel consumption) can be reduced by something like 2/3rds. The bus can leave a railed section of the road, by releasing the hydraulic actuation, upon which the steel wheels are retracted on a spring.
As much as I love the the Boynton Monorail, I have to admit that this system is probably the easiest way to build out a public transit system, since it can switch to regular bus street running where right of way is difficult to acquire (and is simpler and cheaper than having an upper support rail). A metropolis such as Manchester, where there are plentiful open spaces but not necessarily contiguous ones, could construct dedicated sections where it is straightforward to do so and operate as buses in the built up patches. Then, over time, as space can be acquired, tracks can be laid down to complete the circuit.
If the rails are built to support the weight of a HGV, we could do the same with lorries, with the chassis having retractable steel wheels. Relieving the weight from the rubber tyres would cut down massively on the problems they cause in terms of road damage and pollution. We could build out a cross country network of such routes. Unlike using railways, there would be no time consuming step of transferring containers, though we could also of course connect them into trains to get significant labour and energy savings and separate them out at the end for last mile travel.
Use what is abundant and build to last
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#43 2024-06-13 08:28:33
- Mars_B4_Moon
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Re: Public transport
Rail freight growth 'won't happen on its own', warns industry group
https://www.railnews.co.uk/news/2024/06 … appen.html
Semi-Government, somewhat public somewhat private service?
The Australian Government Airline 'QANTAS 'and Britain's Imperial Airways, a forerunner of British Airways, formed a new company, Qantas Empire Airways, it would become Qantas Airways Limited the flag carrier of Australia. It is the largest airline by fleet size, international flights, and international destinations in Australia and Oceania. Qantas aims to eliminate the "tyranny of distance" by developing non-stop flight routes connecting Australian cities to New York City, and to London.
https://www.businesstraveller.com/busin … k-service/
In 2008, the Australian Competition & Consumer Commission fined the airline $20 million for breaches of the acts associated with protecting consumers
https://web.archive.org/web/20191012095 … ing/185142
Australia
https://www.qld.gov.au/disability/out-a … -transport
Public transport
Buses, CityCat and ferries, Short distance trains
Palma calls for limits on cruise ship arrivals, rental cars and a ban on party boats
https://www.majorcadailybulletin.com/ne … boats.html
a forum discussion
How much does a freight train cost to run?
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/ho … un.224665/
What is Freight?
https://octi.ca/what-is-the-cheapest-wa … t-freight/
Before jumping into modes of transport it is important to understand what is meant by “freight.” Freight is a shipment that is at least 150 lbs. Depending on the mode of transportation there will also be an upper limit of what is allowed in a single shipment. For example, shipping an FTL (full truckload) has a maximum allowable weight of 80,000 pounds. Special permits are needed if a shipment is heavier than this.
For shipments less than 150 lbs, a carrier such as United Parcel Service (UPS) is often the most logical and cost-effective option. When you send a smaller shipment like this, you will be able to decide between shipping speed options like next day vs 3-day select. The carrier will determine all other logistics in order to fulfill the request.
Parcel shipping of smaller items also differs from freight shipping in these ways:
Freight shipping provides an estimated arrival while parcel delivery is usually an exact date.
Freight shipping requires a full and accurate disclosure of what is being shipped while parcel shipping is less specific.
In parcel shipping, lighter packages always ship for less than heavier. With freight, the dimensions and durability are factored into the cost versus just the weight alone.
video
Unbelievable Technology: See the Magic Behind Maglev Trains
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8os4A4li674
speed
TGV Atlantique (TGV-A) is a class of high-speed trains used in France by SNCF
http://web.archive.org/web/201505300956 … ch0510.pdf
CRH3 Hexie a version of the Siemens Velaro high-speed train used in China on the Beijing–Tianjin intercity railway
https://web.archive.org/web/20100322213 … shape.html
Renfe Class 103 is a high-speed train used for the AVE service, operated in Spain by the state-run railway company RENFE.
http://www.listadotren.es/motor/ficha.p … b7270f40b6
CR400AF Fuxing a Chinese electric high-speed train developed by CRRC Changchun Railway Vehicles
http://www.china-railway.com.cn/en/Serv … 52870.html
Frecciarossa 1000, a high-speed train operated by Italian state railway operator Trenitalia and the private Spanish high-speed rail operator Iryo
https://web.archive.org/web/20200806190 … tract.html
Bombardier announced an order for eighty Zefiro 380 high-speed trains by the Chinese Ministry of Railways (MOR)
http://www.bombardier.com/en/transporta … technology
ICE 3, known as Intercity-Express 3, is a family of high-speed electric multiple unit trains operated by Deutsche Bahn.
https://inside.bahn.de/ice-3-redesign/
CRH380A a Chinese electric high-speed train that was developed by CSR Corporation Limited (CSR) and is currently manufactured by CRRC Qingdao Sifang, a continuation of the CRH2-380 program it both replaces foreign (Japanese) technology in the CRH2 with Chinese developments and increases its top speed.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001 … 53496.html
Five fastest bullet trains - including one that goes a mind bending 286 mph
https://www.express.co.uk/travel/articl … rains-list
It is no exaggeration to say that the world's transport landscape has been changed beyond recognition by the development of high-speed rail.
quote
Bullet trains are offering viable alternatives to planes, promoting economic growth, reducing travel times and offering a greener option.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-06-13 08:34:59)
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#44 2026-04-12 03:49:35
- Mars_B4_Moon
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- Registered: 2006-03-23
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Re: Public transport
Where Women Travel Safest in 2026: The Top 100 Solo Female Travel Destinations Ranked
https://ceoworld.biz/2026/03/29/where-w … ns-ranked/
Open access train operator RegioJet pulls out of Poland having ‘lost hope and faith’
https://www.railwaygazette.com/passenge … 41.article
French high-speed train and truck collide in another railway crossing tragedy
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/artic … 99_19.html
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#45 2026-08-10 00:48:20
- Calliban
- Member
- From: Northern England, UK
- Registered: 2019-08-18
- Posts: 4,354
Re: Public transport
Why American suburbs suck.
https://youtu.be/HkoPrTQCWs0
The development of the American suburb was driven by bad zoning laws and insane parking requirements. It has created some really crap places to live. In much of America, a person would literally starve to death without a car.
No European country has fallen into the American trap. The UK has done its best to screw up it's cities by allowing developers to build mass housing estates without any supporting services. Fortunately, we don't have the land area to allow genuine urban sprawl.
"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."
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#46 2026-08-10 14:28:41
- Void
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- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,785
Re: Public transport
I am not sure that you enjoy my participation, but I will comment.
In societies there are makers and takers, and there are the chattel of common people.
Royal takers, are common even it they do not have actual royalty at their head as in the USA.
People like Elon Musk are makers. They make their money by creating new options for people to desire.
Takers are all similar, Communists, Socialists, Monarchies. The idea is that a center of power takes all the wealth and then very wisely and compassionately distributes some of that wealth very appropriately to those who disserve/need it. Which ends up with the rulers wishing that common people would be good and just learn how to eat dirt.
Makers are the fun part, you guys don't have so many of them.
But the USA has plenty of takers. At one point it was possible I have read that you could ride street cars from the Twin Cities (Minneapolis) to the East Coast. The USA pioneered electric trains. But at some point, a guy from an area near where I was born, was allowed to somehow get the power to replace street cars with hydrocarbon driven busses. And the Electric Train structure was ripped up and some coot was allowed to take the copper for pennies on the dollar.
The British are partly involved in this along with our scammers here. The idea was large western corporations had ownership of Oil. Obviously they wanted to sell it.
In the beginning of cars electric cars existed. But gas cars were purposely made that would leak oil and need repairs. This allowed the idea of an electric cars as being for girls and and gas cars for boys.
As our oil ran out and the Arabs began to get an upper hand, The idea of a Sun Belt, became in vogue, Very likely the takers got ahead of it and profited by the movement of population. We were stupid enough that we did not recognize that the service economy really had a more proper name "Servant Economy". And although he was a great president, I do believe that Reagan and his cohorts had contempt for common people. He was living in a fantasy world, that was like the movies.
So, you see that British Interests and the interests of our takers here in the USA was to cave in the northern economy and to profit by the movement of people to the sun belt and the more this would involve consumption of petroleum, the better in their opinions.
You can see that Biden wanted to get back to the old game that put distributors between the consumer and the sources of import.
Trump is only as much like that as he has to be to get things done.
Our industry wants to China, our Trains went to Japan and Europe,
Then the takers decided that they wanted to get at least 80 hours of work out of each family. So, they started instigating hatred between the genders. They came up with the idea that there were going to be too many people so the lower classes could be worked to death.
As the Arabs and such began capturing more and more of the value of the oil on their property, making a go of producing services became less and less viable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
A good thing that has happened, I suppose is that the country has been knitted together more by people moving around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
But it is not as if we are purposely stupid this was all planed by the takers, with us as their farm animals.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
But what may come is Robo-Taxi's and Robo-Vans, and robots. This will be electric for the most part, and travel in the suburbs will be reasonable. Perhaps there will be food deliveries, and perhaps a robot doctor will make house calla.
The Cyber-Truck is said to be approaching the efficiency of trains. But of course, it does not need tracks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
It is said that many of the population will not have jobs. But somehow some income. We will see if the takers will allow that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
There is an advantage to having robotic cars and robotaxi, and people spread out. The cars will record who went where. It will be rather easy to figure out who did what for many criminal activities.
It will be quite hard for low-lives to hop on a robot-taxi and go to a suburb to rape and rob and have gang activities.
Urban settings are convenient to group victim's and victimizers in close proximity.
If a criminal had there own car, that will be easy to notice. Such cars will likely be self-driving as well.
But yes suburbs who's needs exceed resources such as water may indeed die.
A good solution for England may not be a good solution for the USA.
But we will see. Things are changing all the time.
If we can continue to produce more makers than takers, the wealth of the republic can grow, I believe.
Ending Pending 
Last edited by Void (2026-08-10 15:10:23)
Be careful what you wish for.
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#47 2026-08-12 10:03:02
- Void
- Member
- Registered: 2011-12-29
- Posts: 9,785
Re: Public transport
I think very highly of Calliban's participation on this site.
But I want to further dispute the claim of (Quote:
Why American suburbs suck.
) from post #45.
And to demonstrate why for America suburbs will continue to make sense, but for the UK, I would not think it is as true.
It is not that we did a smart thing creating suburbs, it is just that our stupidity may be convenient in the future:
https://fity.club/lists/g/global-solar-energy-map/
Image Quote: 
I know that solar is not a favorite of some people here, but year after year, they are doing it better.
Tesla is doing Robo-Taxi, Robovan, and Electric Semi. They will likely make Optimus Robot reasonably functional.
Sunlight is distributed over the surface of the Earth. The more distributed the solar collectors, the less energy has to travel though a grid.
Query: "Robotic Grocery Delivery?"
Quote:
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Grocery delivery robots are becoming increasingly popular, with companies like DoorDash, Uber Eats, and H-E-B deploying autonomous robots to enhance delivery efficiency and convenience.
Overview of Grocery Delivery Robots
DoorDash's Dot: DoorDash has introduced an autonomous delivery robot named Dot, capable of navigating busy streets and sidewalks at speeds of up to 20 miles per hour. Dot can carry up to six pizza boxes or 30 pounds of items, making it suitable for grocery deliveries. The robot is currently being tested in Phoenix, Arizona, and aims to address the complexities of food delivery, including groceries
CNBC
CNBC
.
Uber Eats Robots: Uber Eats has partnered with Avride to deploy four-wheeled delivery robots in several U.S. cities. These compact robots can carry up to 55 pounds of food and navigate sidewalks at speeds of up to five miles per hour. Equipped with LIDAR and cameras, they can detect obstacles and traffic signals, ensuring safe navigation. The robots are already operational in cities like Austin and Jersey City, with plans for expansion
Fox News
Fox News
.
Industry Landscape: The autonomous delivery robot industry has evolved significantly, with companies like Nuro and Starship Technologies leading the way. Nuro focuses on purpose-built autonomous vehicles for grocery delivery, while Starship's small delivery bots have successfully completed millions of deliveries on university campuses and in neighborhoods
roboticsandautomationnews.com
roboticsandautomationnews.com
.
H-E-B's Initiative: H-E-B, a Texas-based grocery chain, is testing autonomous delivery robots in Austin. These robots can carry up to 10 small items and travel at speeds of five miles per hour. They utilize sensors and cameras to navigate and can operate in various weather conditions. This initiative is part of H-E-B's efforts to enhance delivery services through technology
TheStreet
TheStreet
.
Conclusion
Grocery delivery robots are transforming the way consumers receive their groceries, offering a convenient and efficient alternative to traditional delivery methods. As technology continues to advance, we can expect to see more widespread adoption of these autonomous delivery solutions across various regions.
Query: "Icebox deliveries some time ago?"
Quote:
Copilot Search Branding
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Icebox Deliveries in the Past
In the 19th and early 20th centuries, icebox deliveries were a daily, often scheduled, part of American household life before electric refrigerators became common.How it worked
Before refrigeration, most homes used zinc- or tin-lined wooden iceboxes insulated with sawdust, straw, or cork Wikipedia+1. These boxes held large blocks of ice (often 25–50 pounds) that slowly melted, cooling the contents below. The melting water dripped into a tray that had to be emptied regularly to prevent flooding the kitchen stories.rightlivin.com.The iceman’s role
An iceman (or “ice man”) delivered these blocks on a set schedule, often before 7 a.m. so the ice would last through the day stories.rightlivin.com. Routes covered many homes, and the iceman’s arrival time became a household clock — breakfast, laundry, and even childcare were timed around his knock stories.rightlivin.com. In some neighborhoods, the iceman’s schedule was more reliable than the mail stories.rightlivin.com.Delivery process
Ice was harvested in winter from lakes, rivers, or snow-packed areas, stored in ice houses, and transported in horse-drawn wagons or later trucks Rare Historical Photos. The iceman would check an ice card to know how much to deliver, break up large blocks with a pick, and place them in the customer’s box using ice tongs thehistoryinsider.com. The job was physically demanding, with deliveries sometimes made until late evening thehistoryinsider.com+1.Cultural impact
Ice delivery was a third-largest household expense after rent and food stories.rightlivin.com. Families often had a cardboard sign system to order ice without speaking to the driver stories.rightlivin.com. Missing the iceman meant no fresh milk or cool food for the day stories.rightlivin.com. The disappearance of the icebox in the 1930s with the advent of electric refrigerators ended this daily ritual Click Americana.Legacy
Today, the memory of the iceman and the icebox remains a nostalgic part of American history — a reminder of how necessity shaped daily routines long before modern appliances s
Query: "Milkman deliveries some time ago?"
Quote:
Copilot Search Branding
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Milkman Deliveries in the Past
Milkman deliveries were a common part of daily life in the United States and other countries for much of the 19th and 20th centuries, but they have largely disappeared in most areas.Origins and Early Days
The first recorded milk delivery in the U.S. was in Vermont in 1785, when people began buying milk from local dairy farms instead of keeping their own cows Chowhound+1. Early deliveries were made in large metal barrels, with milk ladled into whatever containers customers had — jugs, pails, or jars historyfacts.com. Before glass bottles, milk was highly perishable, so daily or multiple daily deliveries were essential to prevent spoilage Wikipedia+1.The Glass Bottle Era
The invention of the glass milk bottle in the late 1800s (patented in 1878) improved hygiene and convenience Drink Milk In Glass Bottles. By the 1920s, milkmen were delivering in clean, insulated glass bottles, often with the dairy’s name embossed on them historyfacts.com. Many homes had built-in milk boxes or insulated porch boxes for drop-offs, with empty bottles and payment left for pickup historyfacts.com.Decline of the Service
The rise of household refrigeration in the 1940s and 1950s reduced the need for frequent deliveries Click Americana. Supermarkets expanded, offering a wider variety of dairy products at lower prices, making store-bought milk more attractive Click Americana. Urbanization and suburban sprawl also increased delivery costs and made routes less efficient historyfacts.com. By the 1970s, milk delivery had dropped from nearly 30% of U.S. consumers in 1963 to just 6.9% in 1975, and by 2005 only about 0.4% Wikipedia.Resurgence in Recent Years
Interest in local, farm-fresh milk has revived the service in niche markets, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic when people sought safer alternatives to in-store shopping Wikipedia+1. Some U.S. dairies have been offering milkman-style deliveries for over a century, and the local food movement has brought them back in the 2010s Wikipedia.In Summary
Milkman deliveries were once a daily ritual in many communities, but they faded due to refrigeration, supermarkets, and changing consumer habits. Today, they exist mainly as a nostalgic or specialty service, often tied to local farms and the farm-to-table movement.
So, I would anticipate that in suburbs homes may be modified so that a special attached room might allow delivery services access using a lock code. And a refrigerator and freezer may be present. Also, there could be a opportunity to do battery change outs. I do not think it impossible that energy might be delivered with mobile batteries instead of transmitted though power lines.
I also think that some homes in the suburbs could be replaced by small stores run by robots. Something like a fast-food place. You might drive up in a robotaxi and order a bag of common supplies.
These facilities might be largely powered by solar power, I anticipate.
As it happens suburbs have a greater than normal amount of sunlight relative to the case for urban areas.
But it is true that this will not make sense for the UK.
With robotic labor, I think that the suburbs might be quite practical. Instead for stupid lawns that you dump poisons and excessive fertilizer on, you likely will have robots that will groom the vegetation and perhaps much of the area of the suburbs could become a combination of solar panels and orchards.
Probably ninnies will resist that, but really with robotic labor harvesting and grooming orchards will be rather practical.
But they will do what they do.
The potential is there.
Ending Pending
Last edited by Void (2026-08-12 10:30:02)
Be careful what you wish for.
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