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tahanson43206

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Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,219

Group Size as Predictor of Human Population Success

For SpaceNut ... we had no topics with the word "group" in the title...

I'm opening this topic because the research reported at the link below seems (to me at least) very directly related to the Mars enterprise.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … 3e3d&ei=29

The article covers more than one aspect of the environment comparing neanderthals to humans, but I'm picking up on evidence report by the researchers, based upon DNA analysis of remains.

The evidence seems to suggest that humans had larger basic groups than did the neanderthals, and that genetic diversity survived better in the larger groups.  It seems to me that evidence might be interpreted as a useful warning for those who might plan to populate Mars.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,219

Re: Group Size as Predictor of Human Population Success

This post is reserved for an index to posts that NewMars members may contribute over time.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon

Member

Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Group Size as Predictor of Human Population Success

Neanderthals and the Empire of Netherlands both of them gone extinct

It's difficult to say how many more advatages humans of the future could have with new spacecraft and new cargo tugs and new propulsion designs, artificial insemination, fertility help, medical advances, humanoid robots and other Artifical Intelligence Diggers and AI Machines and maybe future sources of power like 'Fusion'

the good thing about Mars colonization is Mars has no Native people to exploit or make victims

Teacher Student class website

'Why did some European attempts to establish colonies in the New World succeed while most failed?'
https://americainclass.org/successful-e … new-world/

and some other ideas pm genetics and the importance of trade and politics and diplomacy

Neutral and adaptive genetic diversity in plants: An overview
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10 … 16814/full

Managing Genetic Diversity, Fitness and Adaptation of Farm Animal Genetic Resources
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 … -9005-9_14

Extinct people?

Neanderthals died out 40,000 years ago, but there has never been more of their DNA on Earth
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/sep/opi … -dna-earth

DNA from elusive human relatives the Denisovans has left a curious mark on modern people in New Guinea
https://theconversation.com/dna-from-el … nea-196113

Australopithecus africanus
https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/hu … -africanus

Australopithecus afarensis was made famous by a skeleton known as Lucy, found 1974 in Ethiopia.
https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/202 … rains.html

Some time ago during the age of European Exploration and Colonization the people in Holland Netherlands were a world power, they started to have battles on multiple fronts trying to retain an Empire, they looked like the could take Australia but fear took them, fightened by the land they got scared changed their decission and went home. Twenty-nine other Dutch navigators explored the western and southern coasts in the and dubbed the continent the West of Australia and much of Australia 'New Holland'. Most of the men of logic could not figure out how to use the land, the explorers of this period concluded that the apparent lack of water and fertile soil made the region unsuitable for colonisation.

Dutch Empires vs British Empires

British colonization, their culture takes over the name New Holland was retained for a while but then a change it continued to be called Terra Australis,  then shortened to Australia.

also a Dutch New York, New Amsterdam was a 17th-century Dutch settlement established at the southern tip of Manhattan Island  and a 'New Holland' in Brazil

Second Battle of Guararapes, two colonial powers fight and a decisive battle in a conflict between Dutch and Portuguese forces the defeat convinced the Dutch the Portugese were strong opponents. For some strange reason the winner paid the loser, the Portuguese would pay in order to help the Dutch idiot recover from the loss of Brazil. Dutch empire was largely destroyed by the British but Holland also fell to French armies, the also lost power in WW1 and WW2, colonies rebelled or voted to be independent, some islands remain colonial territories or remain as constituent countries

cartoon video on history

Indonesia or the Dutch East Indies

changes in WW2, Imperial Japan taking colonies

Traditional Colonialism dies duing the politics of the ColdWar

Why did the Dutch Empire Fall Apart?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSIyIzfbYoo

Assessing the Success of Portuguese and Spanish Exploration and Colonization
https://www.e-ir.info/2012/09/20/assess … onization/

Diplomacy instead of a fight and South America is carved up between the two

governments of Spain and Portugal agreed to the Treaty of Tordesillas, which divided their spheres of influence in the "New World" of the Americas.
https://education.nationalgeographic.or … rdesillas/

Spain and Portugal adhered to the treaty without major conflict between the two, although the line of demarcation was moved an additional 270 leagues (about 1500 kilometers or 932 miles) farther west in 1506, which enabled Portugal to claim the eastern coast of what is now Brazil.

The results of this treaty are still evident throughout the Americas today. For example, all Latin American nations are predominantly Spanish-speaking countries with the sole exception of Brazil where Portuguese is the national language. This is because the eastern tip of Brazil falls east of the line of demarcation settled upon in the Treaty of Tordesillas, and was where the majority of Portuguese colonization occurred. The borders of modern Brazil have expanded since the 1506 expansion of the Treaty of Tordesillas.

Spain and Portugal were the only signatories of the treaty because at the time, they were the only European powers to establish a presence in the Americas. The treaty did not consider any future claims made by the British, French, and other European superpowers of their respective times. The British, French, and Dutch Empires did not claim parts of the Americas until years after the Treaty of Tordesillas.

British win against the Dutch by throwing bodies at it and making a penal colony?

On January 26, 1788, Captain Arthur Phillip guides a fleet of 11 British ships carrying convicts to the colony of New South Wales, effectively founding Australia.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-his … tralia-day

The Tasman expedition left Batavia (Netherlands East Indies, now Jakarta, Indonesia) on 14th August 1642 with two vessels, the Heemskerk with a 60-man crew and the Zeehaan with 50 men on board. They first called at Mauritius, where they stayed for a month-long repair to both ships.
https://dutchaustralianculturalcentre.c … ania-1642/
Intending to sail eastward at the southern latitude of 52 or 54 degrees, it became evident early on that weather would not permit this.

The Dutch in South Africa, 1652-1795 and 1802-1806
https://www.colonialvoyage.com/dutch-south-africa/
The Dutch settlement history in South Africa began in March 1647 with the shipwreck of the Dutch ship Nieuwe Haarlem. The shipwreck victims built a small fort named “Sand Fort of the Cape of Good Hope”. They stayed for nearly one year at the Cape. Finally they were rescued by a fleet of 12 ships under the command of W.G. de Jong. On one of these ships was Jan van Riebeeck, too.

Roanoke Colony an attempt by Walter Raleigh to found the first permanent English settlement, founded in 1585, but it was visited by a ship in 1590 and the crew found that the colonists had disappeared under unknown circumstances. It has come to be known as the Lost Colony, and the fate of the 112 to 121 colonists remains unknown to this day.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150908024 … plete.html
Principall Nauigations (1598–1600)

The British plan, the convicts or party had to rely on its own provisions to survive until it could make use of local materials, assuming suitable supplies existed, and grow its own food and raise livestock, over 1400 people prisoners, marines, sailors, civil officers and free settlers, many could have done crimes like theft, many others may have been rebels or offensive speakers against the Queen or King from Ireland; at least 14 are known to have come from the British colonies in North America, 12 are identified as black born in Britain, Africa, the West Indies, North America, India or a European country or its colony. Australia insights into shipboard life, the convicts, officers and crew, ports of call, discipline, injuries and deaths and daily life in the colony.

https://www.sl.nsw.gov.au/stories/terra … irst-fleet

A treaty of science research at the South Pole and Subantarctic region,  McMurdo USA, Vostok Russia, Laurie Island South Orkney Islands Argentina, Arturo Prat Greenwich Island Chile, Troll Queen Maud Land Norway Norwegian Polar Institute, Mawson Australia, Amundsen-Scott USA, Concordia France/Italy, Adelaide Island     British Antarctic Survey, Qinling Inexpressible Island, Terra Nova Bay Chinese Polar Research Institute of China, Port-aux-Français Kerguelen Islands France the French Polar Institute, Showa East Ongul Island Japan National Institute of Polar Research, Maitri Schirmacher Oasis India National Centre for Polar and Ocean Research, Zucchelli Terra Nova Bay Italy, GARS Cape Legoupil Germany the German Aerospace Center...none of these sites are for colonization but some can hold hundreds of people.

24 people or less?

Boffins reckon Mars colony could survive with fewer than two dozen people
https://www.theregister.com/2023/08/16/ … lony_size/
Taming that unforgiving dust world may be significantly less expensive than anticipated

Just 110 humans would be needed to start a new civilisation on Mars, scientist claims
https://www.mirror.co.uk/science/just-1 … d-22217805
Professor Jean-Marc Salotti, an expert at The Bordeaux Institut National Polytechnique, says survival depends on access to natural resources and people's working time requirements being less than their working time capacity

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-04-01 03:12:49)