18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

Palomar · 2003-09-28 16:18:42

"You profound and extravagant philosopher, you enemy of Descartes,
who deceived yourself like him;
Hi Cindy,
Just about Descartes, Voltaire was anti Descartes, why's that ? do you know more about this and why being an enemy of Descartes was apparently supposed to be a good thing at that time ?
Poor Descartes, it doesn't deserve to be treated that way.
It's actually the second time that I see a negative content in a Voltaire comment, the first was about the "barbarians" who vivisected animals. I know...I'm not gonna argue here, in 2003, in support of vivisection, I have learned by heart my politically correct "what to say and how to say it for dummies" dictionary, but in the contest of that time, I am not so sure that the first physiologists or biologists were all barbarians because they used living animals for experiments.

*Hi dickbill. I'm not tremendously familiar with Voltaire's thoughts on Descartes. Voltaire had differences of philosophical opinion with Descartes, but to my current knowledge Voltaire wasn't extremely harsh on Descartes. I believe the first statement "you enemy of Descartes" refers to Voltaire seeing some good/positive aspects of Descartes' character, as opposed to the misanthropic Hobbes. He then goes on to say he thinks both Hobbes and Descartes deceived themselves (in various and different aspects of their philosophy). Voltaire didn't consider himself an enemy of Descartes, so far as I'm aware...but he definitely did point out his differences of opinion with Descartes.

As to the vivisection comments, Voltaire was referring to dissecting animals alive -- in all that pain and suffering, while trying to "prove" animals couldn't feel pain or pleasure.

Here's a post I made months ago, regarding Voltaire's thoughts on Descartes; hopefully it'll answer some of your questions. By the way, d'Alembert praised Descartes and pointed out his having been persecuted in his famous introductory essay to l'Encyclopedie (I can quote that later, if you like).

Voltaire:

"Aristotle begins by saying that incredulity is the source of wisdom;
Descartes has carried this sentiment still farther, and they have
both taught me to believe nothing they say. This Descartes,
particularly, after pretending to doubt, speaks in such an
affirmative manner of what he does not understand; he is sure of the
fact, when he is grossly mistaken in physics; he has built such an
imaginary world; his whirlwinds and three elements are so
prodigiously ridiculous, that I ought to suspect everything he says
upon the soul, after he has imposed upon me with respect to bodies.

He believes, or affects to believe, that we are born with
metaphysical ideas. I would as soon aver that Homer was born with
the Iliad in his head. It is very true that Homer, at his birth, had
a brain so constructed that having afterwards acquired poetical
ideas, sometimes fine, sometimes incoherent, or sometimes
exaggerated, at length composed the Iliad. We bring into the world
at our birth the seed of what afterwards displays itself in us; but
we have really no more innate ideas than Raphael and Michael Angelo
had at their birth pencils or colors.

Descartes endeavors to unite his scattered chimeras by supposing men
always to think; I would as soon imagine that birds never cease
flying or dogs running, because they are endowed with these abilities.

We need only consult a little of our experience and that of human
nature to be thoroughly convinced of the contrary; there is no man
mad enough to firmly believe he has thought all of his life, night
and day, without interruption, from the time of his being a foetus
till his last illness. The only resource of those who have defended
such a romance has been to say that we always think, but we do not
always perceive that we think. It might as well also be asserted that we
drink, eat, and ride on horseback without knowing it! If you don't
perceive that you possess any ideas, how can you affirm that you have
any? Gassendi ridiculed this extravagant system as it deserved. Do
you know what was the consequence? Gassendi and Descartes were both
pronounced atheists."

[Material taken from _World Classics Library: Voltaire_]

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-10-11 08:45:42

::The Morals of Chess, by Benjamin Franklin::

"The game of chess is not merely an idle amusement. Several very
valuable qualities of the mind, useful in the course of human life,
are to be acquired or strengthened by it, so as to become habits,
ready on all occasions. For life is a kind of chess, in which we
often have points to gain, and competition or adversaries to contend
with; and in which there is a vast variety of good and ill events,
that are in some degree the effects of prudence or the want of it.
By playing at chess, then, we may learn:

I. FORESIGHT, which looks a little into futurity and considers the
consequences that may attend an action; for it is continually
occurring to the player, "If I move this piece, what will be the
advantages or disadvantages of my situation? What use can my
adversary make of it, to annoy me? What other moves can I make to
support it, and to defend myself from his attacks?"

II. CIRCUMSPECTION, which surveys the whole chessboard, or scene of
action; the relation of the several pieces and situations, the
dangers they are respectively exposed to, the several possibilities
of their aiding each other, the probability that the adversary may
make this or that move, and to attack this or the other piece, and
what different means can he use to avoid this stroke, or turn its
consequences against him.

III. CAUTION, not to make our moves too hastily. This habit is best
acquired, by observing strictly the laws of the game; such as, If you
touch a piece, you must move it somewhere; if you set it down, you
must let it stand. And it is therefore best that these rules should
be observed, as the game becomes thereby more the image of human
life, and particularly of war; in which, if you have incautiously put
yourself into a bad and dangerous position, you cannot obtain your
enemy's leave to withdraw your troops, and place them more securely,
but you must abide all the consequences of your rashness.

And lastly, we learn by chess the habit of not being discouraged by
present appearances in the state of affairs, the habit of hoping or a
favorable change, and that of preservering in the search of
resources."

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-11-13 12:40:19

*Quotes of Benjamin Franklin, from _The Wit & Wisdom of Benjamin Franklin_ by Barnes & Noble Publishing:

.--.

"Most of the learning in use, is of no great use."

.--.

"The morning daylight appears plainer
When you put out your candle."

.--.

"A lie stands on 1 leg, truth on 2."

.--.

"When death puts out our flame, the snuff will tell
If we were wax or tallow, by the smell."

.--.

"Content and riches seldom meet together;
Riches take thou, Contentment I had rather."

.--.

"Dost thou love life? Then do not squander time;
For that's the stuff life is made of."

.--.

"The sleeping fox catches no poultry. Up! up!"

.--.

"Where sense is wanting, everything is wanting."

.--.

"Love, and be loved."

.--.

"Kings have long arms,
but Misfortune longer;
Let none think themselves out of her reach."

.--.

"Light purse, heavy heart."

.--.

"Necessity has no law; Why?
Because 'tis not to be had without money."

.--.

"Wars bring scars."

.--.

"Those who in quarrels interpose
Must often wipe a bloody nose."

.--.

"Now I've a sheep and a cow,
Everybody bids me good morrow."

.--.

"He that won't be counselled, can't be helped."

.--.

"An innocent plowman is more worthy than a vicious prince."

.--.

"All blood is alike ancient."

.--.

"He that cannot bear with other people's passions
Cannot govern his own."

.--.

"Life with fools consists in drinking;
With the wise man, living's thinking."

.--.

"Clean your finger, before you point at my spots."

.--.

"Hear no ill of a friend, nor speak any of an enemy."

.--.

"Of learned fools I have seen ten times ten.
Of unlearned wise men I have seen a hundred."

.--.

"Wink at small faults; remember thou hast great ones."

.--.

--Cindy

Palomar · 2003-11-20 11:07:47

*November 21 (tomorrow) marks the 309th anniversary of Voltaire's birth date.

http://www.ac-orleans-tours.fr/hist-ge....ire.jpg

---

The following was posted by me to my "Age of Voltaire" group a few months ago:

Last evening I discovered a short series of "Discourses" in the back of _World Library Classics: Voltaire_. Included is a discourse he wrote, relative to his Deistic sentiments. I have now found an e-text which also relates it entirely (although the style and wording are a bit different, according to translation; I prefer the book version, which retains the "old style" of writing with its rich and elegant phraseology).

Even if you are not interested in Voltairean Deism, you may enjoy his discussion of astronomy and other philosophical elements in the tale.

Voltaire admired China, or rather what he knew of it. He and other literary personages of his time used foreign cultures as the stage on which to present their philosophical ideas, etc.

Voltaire's "Chinese Catechism"

---

*The account of a visitor:

Mr. Georg Brandes, author of _Voltaire_ relates the visit of Prince
Charles Joseph de Ligne (later a Field Marshal of Austria) to
Voltaire at Ferney. Mr. Brandes says contemporaries described Prince
Charles as "the favorite of all kings, courtier at all Courts, friend
of all philosophers." Charles was 28 years old when he visited
Voltaire, "but already his willy sallies and brilliant repartee were
quoted everywhere," and he was a charming conversationalist.

The length of Prince Charles' visit was 8 days.

Mr. Brandes relates to us Prince Charles' description of Voltaire's
manner of dress: On week days Voltaire wore gray shoes, iron-gray
stockings, a wide jacket of silk, a great wig and a little black
velvet cap [he must have looked adorable with that jaunty little cap
perched atop that large wig!]; on Sundays Voltaire wore a neat
reddish-brown coat -- without ruffles -- trousers and vest to match,
or a jacket with wide tails, gold-trimmed with wavy braid and wide
lace-cuffs which reached to the fingertips.

Mr. Brandes quotes Prince Charles' comments concerning Voltaire's
personality:

"He was now writer, now Courtier of Louis XIV's Court, then again
gentleman of the best society...The best thing I could do during my
stay was not to try to be entertaining or witty myself, but to induce
him to talk. I was eight days at his house, and I wish I could
recall the subline, honest, beautiful things that escaped him one
after another. But this is impossible. I laughed or I admired; but
I was as though in a continual ecstasy. Everything about him, even
his mistakes, his hobbies, his lack of appreciation of the fine arts
[??? Apparently he and Charles differed as to the definition of "fine
arts"!], his moods, his pretentions to being what he could not be
[IMO, this probably refers to the rigid class castes of the time; in
spite of Voltaire's wealth and celebrated achievements, he was born
of the middle-class, as Charles well knew], as well as what he really
was -- everything he did was delightful, new, charming and
unexpected. He would like to be considered an excellent statesman
and a great pedant, this last to such a degree that he would be
boring...He had a very high opinion of the English constitution. I
recall saying to him: 'Monsieur de Voltaire, don't forget the power
that maintains it: the ocean; without it, the constitution would not
stand.'"

---

*A happy event on Christmas Eve, 1758:

Tournay was a piece of property owned by Voltaire, which abutted onto
Ferney. All authors of books I've read to date really don't explain
the two indepth, i.e. how large (acre-wise) they were, etc.
Sometimes they are hyphenated, i.e. "Tournay-Ferney."

Mr. Georg Brandes, author of _Voltaire_, shares the following
marvellous anecdote with us. He reproduces a portion of a letter
written by a Madame Galantin, who lived in Geneva, concerning
Voltaire driving into Tournay and the reception he received there;
she provides us with a detailed picture of that day:

"He [Voltaire] was paid every possible honor; salutes from cannon and
musket, drums and whistles. All the peasants bore arms. The shots
frightened the horses of his coach. Little girls brought him oranges
in baskets entwined with ribbons. Monsieur de Voltaire was very
pleased and gay. He found a wide difference between his reception
here and that at Ferney, where peasants alone greeted him. He was in
gala attire, and his niece was decked with diamonds...The priest
delivered a speech. The young girls of the community brought flowers
for the ladies. A gunner and several cannon had been borrowed from
Geneva. The health of the new lord of the castle was drunk to the
accompaniment of cannon shots. I declare, I believe that it was the
happiest day of his life."

--Cindy

clark · 2003-11-21 08:47:00

I wonder what Voltaire or other 18th century philosphers have to say about truth and honesty? Do you know of any good quotes Cindy?

clark · 2003-11-21 09:38:18

Well, I couldn't wait, so I found some quotes that I thought I might share... I believe this is all on topic too!

Love truth, and pardon error.

Truth is a fruit that can only be picked when it is very ripe.

It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.

Prejudice is the reason of fools.

Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.

The road to the heart is the ear.

One owes respect to the living, to the dead one owes only truth.

We are all full of weakness and errors; let us mutually pardon each other our follies it is the first law of nature.

Weakness on both sides is, the motto of all quarrels.

It is better to risk sparing a guilty person than to condemn an innocent one.

There are truths which are not for all men, nor for all times

Quoi que vous fassiez, ?crasez l'inf?me, et aimez qui vous aime.

All the above are attributed, or directly quote Voltaire. What are your favorites?

And a personal favorite:

Truth can be a dangerous thing. It is quite patient and relentless. ~ R. Scott Richards ~

clark · 2003-11-21 11:49:13

I found some more great quotes, but they're not from Voltaire. What do you think of some of them?

"I am different from you. I have a higher, grander standard of principle. You can lie. And I sure as Hell can lie, but I won't" -Notch

"I love you, and because I love you, I would sooner have you hate me for telling you the truth than adore me for telling you lies." -- Pietro Aretino

"The woman whose behavior indicates that she will make a scene if she is told the truth asks to be deceived"- Elizabeth Jenkins

The easiest way to be cheated is to believe yourself to be more cunning than others.~ Pierre Charron ~

Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest.~ Benjamin Franklin

The people of the world having once been deceived, suspect deceit in truth itself.~ Hitopadesa ~

"A single lie destroys a whole reputation of integrity." -- Baltasar Gracian

"Half a truth is often a great lie." -- Benjamin Franklin

"So near is falsehood to truth that a wise man would do well not to trust himself on the narrow edge." -- Marcus Tullius Cicero

"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence." -- Frederick Douglass

"A truth that disheartens because it is true is of more value than the most stimulating of falsehoods." -- Maurice Maeterlinck

"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." -- George Bernard Shaw

"A lie can be halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots on." -- James Callaghan

"A lie has speed, but truth has endurance." -- Edgar J. Mohn

"Gradually I came to realize that people will more readily swallow lies than truth,
as if the taste of lies was homey, appetizing: a habit." -- Martha Gellhorn

"Things are not always as they seem; the first appearance deceives many." -- Phaedrus

Zounds! :;):

dickbill · 2003-11-21 12:19:48

Clark,

"Jugez un homme par ses questions plut?t que le sien des r?ponses."

would be correct in the following form, I think, if you forgive the missing accents :

"Jugez un homme par ses questions plutot que par ses reponses"

Add the accentuation as in the first version and that would be perfect.

There is also a problem in Cindy' s quote
I think the correct quote means:
"Les hommes croient toujours que les femmes ont raison... au lit, c'est a dire"
but here again the accents are missing.

clark · 2003-11-21 12:25:03

Thank you for your help, and your patience dickbill.

Once upon a time, an attempt was made to teach me French, but that endevour was doomed to failure. I think I got to about the point where I decided I knew enough French to sell baguette's of bread, or pan (please exscuse the lack of accents).

Palomar · 2003-11-21 12:32:10

*I believe the majority of quotes in the above posts are out of context for this specific thread.

I've requested Adrian remove the posts and advise the gentlemen posting to please take it to "Apropos of Nothing", as it is out of context here.

Thank you.

--Cindy

P.S.: This also isn't the appropriate thread for dicphering modern/contemporary French phrases, such as in my signature line. Thanks!

clark · 2003-11-21 12:38:22

Well, drat. I thought it might be on topic. I tried to be on topic. I won't argue, just say I'm sorry. I certainly am not intending to derail this thread, as it is quite lovely, and a testimony to how deeply you feel about the Enlightenment philosphy. I felt the same way about my poetry thread, so I understand.

Perhaps you might take the time, if you are so inclined, to explain 18th century philosphy and how it deals with issues of truth and honesty. I think there might be something to learn there, if not for me, then perhaps others may learn something valuable. Just a thought- a suggestion if you will.

I will endeavor to make any future posts in this thread more on-topic, which I look forward to with great enthuisiasm. Perhaps if there were some ground rules, it might make it eaiser for anyone else who wishes to post in this thread. I didn't see any, but then, I might have missed something.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and thanks in advance.

clark · 2003-11-21 12:54:34

I am trying to make sure that anyone I quote came from the 18th century, and is involved with the Enlightenment, in some way... that's the best i can do right now, so I hope it's enough. If not, please, by all means, let me know so I can work harder at meeting your expectations Cindy. Thanks in advance.

To love truth for truth's sake is the principal part of human perfection in this world, and the seed-plot of all other virtues.
-John Locke

Knowledge being to be had only of visible and certain truth, error is not a fault of our knowledge, but a mistake of our judgment, giving assent to that which is not true.
- Essay Concerning Human Understanding
(bk. IV, Of Wrong Assent or Error, ch. XX) -Locke

We should have a great many fewer disputes in the world if words were taken for what they are, the signs of our ideas only, and not for things themselves.
- Essay on the Human Understanding (III, 10) -Locke

A man may live long, and die at last in ignorance of many truths, which his mind was capable of knowing, and that with certainty.
- Human Understanding (bk. I, ch. II) -Locke

The best way to come to truth being to examine things as really they are, and not to conclude they are, as we fancy of ourselves, or have been taught by others to imagine.
- Human Understanding (bk. II, ch. XII) -Locke

He that judges without informing himself to the utmost that he is capable, cannot acquit himself of judging amiss.
- Human Understanding (bk. II, ch. XXI) -Locke

Earthly minds, like mud walls, resist the strongest batteries; and though, perhaps, somethimes the force of a clear argument may make some impression, yet they nevertheless stand firm, keep out the enemy, truth, that would captivate or disturbe them.-John Locke

Till a man can judge whether they be truths or not, his understanding is but little improved, and thus men of much reading, though greatly learned, but may be little knowing.
-John Locke

clark · 2003-11-21 13:19:28

A few more by Dennis Diderot related to truth and honesty.

We swallow greedily any lie that flatters us, but we sip only little by little at a truth we find bitter. -Denis Diderot

A thing is not proved just because no one has ever questioned it. What has never been gone into impartially has never been properly gone into. Hence scepticism is the first step toward truth. It must be applied generally, because it is the touchstone. -Denis Diderot

I can be expected to look for truth but not to find it. -Denis Diderot

You know, I get the sneaking suspicion that Enlightenment philosophy is formulated on a bit of honesty and truthfulness with which to inform our reason, correct? Or am I way off base here? I might imagine that some of these great thinkers, who lived during a time of lying Kings and Popes, would despise individuals attempts to move from the light of truth and reason. It also begs the next question, without truth and honesty, how can we critically, and legitimately reassess our reasoned perspective? I think Cindy has mentioned how Enlightenment philosophers, pardon me, Enlightenment philosophy, allows for it's own self-correction. Nothing is fundamentally certain enough where it can't be reassessed? Right? I am really working in the dark on this one, so any help would be appreciated.

It seems like some of the most noted philosophers tried to live their ideals, not just espouse them. A noble act that we all should emulate if you ask me.

But then no one does. :laugh:

clark · 2003-11-21 14:15:55

I hope this is on topic, after all, Voltaire seems to be quoted quite often, and I am just beginning my intellectual immersion into Enlightenment philosophy. I really know nothing, so please forgive me if I make incorrect assumptions related to understanding this text, and these great thinkers.

I wish merely to repay the kindness Cindy has graced us with in this thread. No need to thank me, the pleasure is all mine.

On Truth
by Voltaire

" PILATE therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Everyone that is of the truth heareth my voice.

" Pilate saith unto Him, What is truth? And when he had said this he went out, etc." (St. John xviii. 37).

It is a sad thing for the human race that Pilate went out without waiting for the answer; we should know what truth is. Pilate had very little curiosity. The accused led before him, says he is king, that he was to be king; and Pilate doe-s not inquire how that can be. He is supreme judge in Caesar's name, he has power of life and death; his duty was to probe the sense of these words. He ought to say--" Tell me what you understand by being king. How were you born to be king and to bear witness to the truth? It is maintained that truth reaches but with difficulty to the ear of kings. I am judge, I have always had great trouble in finding it. While your enemies are howling against you without, give me some information on the point; you will be doing me the greatest service that has ever been done a judge; and I much prefer to learn to recognize truth, than to accede to the Jews' clamorous demand to have you hanged."

We shall not dare, to be sure, seek what the author of all truth would have been able to reply to Pilate.

Would he have said : " Truth is an abstract word which most men use indifferently in their books and judgments, for error and falsehood? " This definition would have been marvellously appropriate to all makers of systems. Similarly is the word " wisdom " taken often for folly, and " wit" for nonsense.

Humanly speaking, let us define truth, while waiting for a better definition, as--" a statement of the facts as they are."

I suppose that if one had given only six months to teaching Pilate the truths of logic, he would assuredly have made this conclusive syllogism. One must not take away the life of a man who has only preached good morality: well, the man who has been impeached has, on the showing of his enemies even, often preached excellent morality; therefore he should not be punished with death.

He might have drawn this further argument.

My duty is to disperse the riotous assemblage of a seditious people who demand a man's death, unreasonably and without legal form; well, that is the position of the Jews in this instance; therefore I must drive them away and break up their meeting.

We suppose that Pilate knew arithmetic; hence we will not speak of those forms of truth.

As regards mathematical truths, I think it would have taken at least three years before he could have learned higher geometry. The truths of physics combined with those of geometry would have demanded more than four years. We spend six, ordinarily, in studying theolgy; I ask twelve for Pilate, seeing that he was pagan, and that six years would not have been too much for eradicating all his old errors, and six years more for making him fit to receive a doctor's hood.

If Pilate had had a well-balanced mind, I should have asked only two years to teach him metaphysical truth; and as metaphysical truth is necessarily allied to moral truth, I flatter myself that in less than nine years be would have become a real scholar and a perfectly honest man.

I should then have said to Pilate:--Historical truths are merely probabilities. If you had fought at the battle of Philippi, that is for you a truth which you know by' intuition, by perception. But for us who dwell near the Syrian desert, it is merely a very probable thing, which we know by hearsay. How much hearsay is necessary to form a conviction equal to that of a man who, having seen the thing, can flatter himself that he has a sort of certainty?

He who has heard the thing told by twelve thousand eye-witnesses, has only twelve thousand probabilities, equal to one strong probability, which is not equal to certainty.

If you have the thing from only one of these witnesses, you know nothing; you should be sceptical. If the witness is dead, you should be still more sceptical, for you cannot enlighten yourself. If from several witnesses who are dead, you are in the same plight. If from those to whom the witnesses have spoken, your scepticism should increase still more.

From generation to generation scepticism increases, and probability diminishes; and soon probability is reduced to zero.

Seeing as you are the resident scholar related to Enlightenment Philosphy, what do you make of this Cindy? Anyone else care to comment?

dickbill · 2003-11-21 16:35:59

He who has heard the thing told by twelve thousand eye-witnesses, has only twelve thousand probabilities, equal to one strong probability, which is not equal to certainty.
If you have the thing from only one of these witnesses, you know nothing; you should be sceptical. If the witness is dead, you should be still more sceptical, for you cannot enlighten yourself. If from several witnesses who are dead, you are in the same plight. If from those to whom the witnesses have spoken, your scepticism should increase still more.

very good point. And when you add:

From generation to generation scepticism increases, and probability diminishes; and soon probability is reduced to zero.

I don't know, but does that mean that Voltaire questions the accuracy of the report of the Christ's life and death by the apostles or witnesses ? that fits very well with what he says.

New Mars Forums

Announcement

#151 2003-09-28 16:18:42

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#152 2003-10-11 08:45:42

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#153 2003-11-13 12:40:19

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#154 2003-11-20 11:07:47

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#155 2003-11-21 08:47:00

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#156 2003-11-21 09:38:18

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#157 2003-11-21 11:49:13

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#158 2003-11-21 12:19:48

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#159 2003-11-21 12:25:03

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#160 2003-11-21 12:32:10

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#161 2003-11-21 12:38:22

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#162 2003-11-21 12:54:34

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#163 2003-11-21 13:19:28

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#164 2003-11-21 14:15:55

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

#165 2003-11-21 16:35:59

Re: 18th Century: Age of Enlightenment

Board footer