New Mars Forums

Intuition

InActive

From: Venice CA,

Registered: 2004-09-28

Posts: 3

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

Hello again guys.

I know I posted the trailer some time ago and I thought it would be out by now but I wasn't aware of post production that was still needed.

Anyways, if you haven't seen the trailer, check it out and you can also look at the pics too.

http://www.themarsunderground.com]www.themarsunderground.com

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

Hi Intuition!

I know I posted the trailer some time ago ...

    If that's meant as some kind of apology, there's absolutely no need for it!  I'd all but forgotten about the film and was delighted to be reminded of it.   

    The more I see of Dr. Zubrin, the more I like him. And I can't wait to see this documentary!  :up:

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

You did say keep a secret 
I had enjoyed watching the trailer and watched it again today. Was still enjoyable.

Commodore

Member

From: Upstate NY, USA

Registered: 2004-07-25

Posts: 1,021

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

Any chance theres a downloadable link?

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"Yes, I was going to give this astronaut selection my best shot, I was determined when the NASA proctologist looked up my ass, he would see pipes so dazzling he would ask the nurse to get his sunglasses."
---Shuttle Astronaut Mike Mullane

Cobra Commander

Member

From: The outskirts of Detroit.

Registered: 2002-04-09

Posts: 3,039

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

Just checked out the trailer (sans audio, amid countless interruptions), lookin' good. My only real nit to pick is that the CG looks like really good CG as opposed to real. But then for a time-lapse shot of Mars terraformation what can you do?  :;):

Looking forward to see the finished product.

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Build a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

I just search back though the old thread and here is the location http://dev.tedj.com/trailers/320_MU.mov

Rxke

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2003-11-03

Posts: 3,669

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

The more I see of Dr. Zubrin, the more I like him. And I can't wait to see this documentary!  :up:

i have the same thing... He feels like the One for geeks in that trailer, I hope someone buys it to air it worldwide!

He sure is an interesting man.

publiusr

Banned

From: Alabama

Registered: 2005-02-24

Posts: 682

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

http://www.space.com/spacenews/pdf/zubrin.pdf

Read what he has to say about how EELVs don't cut the mustard.

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

...Except that Zubrin is making a scare-number filled presentation that is bascially bunk, since he casually throws arbitrary numbers around for mission events, and neglects to mention that HLLVs wouldn't be that much safer either.

I'm convinced that Zubrin is pushing for HLLV because he needs it to get to Mars, not because he thinks its the best option for VSE.

Edit:
For example...

-States that all mission componets must be launched in a short window, which is a lie
-Scare tactic of averaging in Titan-II and Titan-IV missile-derived launcher reliability to "average" reliability skews the very high reliability of Delta and Atlas-III/V.
-States that SDV will be cheap, when this is clearly not known nor will likly be the case.
-Uses small ~30MT figure for EELV payload, when they are capable of more with updates to modern instead of 1990's technology.

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[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

RobS

Banned

From: South Bend, IN

Registered: 2002-01-15

Posts: 1,701

Website

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

At the Mars Society conference last year he kept using the Delta-IV Medium launch weights (10 tonnes or so) rather than the Delta-IV Heavy when he downplayed the EELV compared to SDV.

        -- RobS

BWhite

Member

From: Chicago, Illinois

Registered: 2004-06-16

Posts: 2,635

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

I think it is safe to say that the ISS is the perfect textbook example of why extensive orbital assembly is to be avoided. If you can't launch your Mars ship in three pieces or less, then you are going to get into quite a bit of trouble.

Do we agree or disagree? How many pieces (launches) are optimal for a lunar mission?

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Give someone a sufficient [b][i]why[/i][/b] and they can endure just about any [b][i]how[/i][/b]

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

"Zubrin States that all mission components must be launched in a short window? GCNRevenger: disagrees"

My question, is what makes a "short launch window" (I think 2 or 3 months wide and I am not sure how many days are valid for launch in that period) when we can only send probes for a 9 month journey every 2 years? Even if a failure occurs by launching everything all at once in that 3 month window it still is 9 months before we would know of success or failure and would need to hurry to fill the backup of that payload before the next cycle. Dragging out 1 launch every 2 years will not do.

Bwhite question, of how many pieces? IMO comes back to weight and size diameter to length of section for the particular payload. Whether launched to the moon or mars.

GCNRevenger

Member

From: Earth

Registered: 2003-10-14

Posts: 6,056

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

Launching a Lunar sortie in only two or three pieces should be easy enough. One for the TLI stage and one for whatever payload you are sending, and perhaps one more to send up crew & perishables.

I am more inclined to support the EELV option because I fear the costs and flight delays of SDV spiraling out of control due to its severely manpower-intensive operation, its lack of flexibility, and having to re-man-rate the thing. EELVs are fairly expensive, but they are a known quantity and will permit NASA to part with the accursed Shuttle Army that has been the millstone around its neck longer then I have lived. It should be fairly easy using today's technology to make the Delta-IV HLV roughly half as powerful as SDV would be, and will likly cost aproximatly half as much as the mid-range estimates for SDV per-flight.

The EELV option is obviously more flexible too, in case you don't want to waste a huge rocket to launch a medium-sized payload, and when upgrading the EELVs throw in the option for man-rating and you get payload/people seperation plus provide people-only access to LEO for ISS options or future reuseable Moon/Mars ships.

Zubrin says that you must launch all four pieces (CEV, Lander, 2X TLI stage) all at once. This is obviously, clearly untrue and for Bob to make such a claim either defies his intelligence or his veracity. You could launch the lander into orbit, then wait a while and launch its TLI stage bascially whenever you like, then the second TLI stage, and wait a whole month or two to launch the CEV/TEI stage with the crew. None of these launch events are tied to a short window except launching the CEV relativly soon to dock with its TLI stage. The secret is to make the lander "storable" for a while, which is not very hard.

---

[i]"The power of accurate observation is often called cynicism by those that do not have it." - George Bernard Shaw[/i]

[i]The glass is at 50% of capacity[/i]

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Zubrin, Mars Doc has website up. - Check it out.

Bump not quite 40 mt to mars but close enough