Communism

tahanson43206 · 2022-10-22 09:30:10

SpaceNut, considering the many objections that have appeared in the NewMars database, I was surprised to discover that no one had set up a topic to publish their objections to communism.

I'll open with my recollection of a quote that is attributed to Karl Marx:

"From Each according to his ability; To Each according to his need"

OK ... so here is the Google version:

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" (German: Jeder nach seinen Fähigkeiten, jedem nach seinen Bedürfnissen) is a slogan popularised by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Programme. The principle refers to free access to and distribution of goods, capital and services.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_a...
About Featured Snippets

The first flaw that ** I ** see in this slogan is the question of ** who ** decides what a person's needs might be.

It seems to me that a competing philosophy might keep the first half of the slogan, but change the second to:

"to each according to his assessment of his needs and his ability to pay"

This topic ** should ** yield some interesting posts.

For Mars_B4_Moon .... given your half full - half empty policy, please try to resist the temptation to dump on this topic.

I'd like the topic to be interesting and enjoyable to read.

For kbd512 ... please try to keep your posts (should you choose to make any) short enough to appear in a single screen.

For all ... please contribute substance .... we have plenty of Chat topics for humor, sarcasm and other creativity.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2022-10-22 11:39:03

As you made note of the who and to what level of rights are still intact for the individuals that live there is the question and under what prosperity level or conditions. Then again parts of the whole also get to see those as the haves while at the bottom you end up with those that do not.

kbd512 · 2022-10-22 14:44:17

tahanson43206,

Communism's record as an organizing principle pretty much speaks for itself. It was and is an abhorrent idea, like nazism. My objection to communism is that it fundamentally doesn't work, it's completely failed to deliver a better standard of living for the average citizen absolutely everywhere it's been tried, and the people who "rise to the top" of communist power structures are a bunch of murdering psychopaths who don't care at all for the people they hurt, which are predominantly their own people.

Believe it or not, you can simply choose to leave people alone that you do not like or agree with, they can run their lives the way they see fit, and you can run your life the way you see fit. If you think government needs to control every aspect of life, from cradle-to-grave, then that's because you lack the self-control required for you to properly run your life, not because your personal failings apply to everyone else.

For all the people who assert that "real communism" has never been tried, here is my response:

"That's because humans are universally too stupid to implement real communism. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just another moron who thinks he or she knows how to implement real communism after watching entire societies (Russia, China, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Cuba), comprised of hundreds of millions of people, all fail to properly implement communism. The mere fact that you think you know so much more than everyone else who tried to properly implement communism only shows how much of a moron you truly are. Alternatively, you're an evil person who wants to hurt other people you have ideological disagreements with. Either way, you're not someone who should ever be given power over other people, because you lack the ability to recognize and learn from past mistakes."

Everything I've just stated is objectively true. There is no serious debate to be had here, because that is the truth, and there are no exceptions to be found in any actual implementation of communist principles by a government claiming to be communist. From here on out, anything I respond to will be related to someone's feelings about communism, their enchantment with the idea of communism, or someone attempting to conceal their evil nature (psychopathic or sociopathic behavior) while garnering more support or buy-in for an idea that they ultimately intend to use to hurt other people.

tahanson43206 · 2022-10-22 15:05:49

For SpaceNut and kbd512 ...

Thank you both for giving this topic a solid start....

The people who head out to Mars will have an opportunity to implement the social arrangement they think has the greatest chance of insuring success.

The Earth provides an amazing variety of examples of failure to study.

This topic is dedicated to consideration of just one of many systems.

Whatever is tried on Mars will fail as well. That's just how it is with human ventures.

The only reasonable response is to try to learn from each experiment.

I am hoping there are valuable lessons that might be learned from the various experiments with Communism.

(th)

kbd512 · 2022-10-23 18:50:51

tahanson43206,

Communism is functionally no different than slavery. Under slavery, someone forces you to work for them, with the implicit or explicit threat of violence being used against you if you refuse. Your life is always a finite period of time, so if someone is forcing you to do their bidding, on pain of death if you refuse to comply, then they're literally taking your life, bit by bit, slowly but surely. Under communism, the government forces you to work for them at gunpoint, and will outright murder you if you refuse. While it's very true that you still have to work under capitalism, nobody is forcing you to work for them, specifically. You always have a choice, and if you can get a better deal working for someone else, it's your option to take it. Most people will choose to work for someone else, because it's easier to do, but they're under no obligation to do so.

There's also no upper limit to the number of people who communists will starve to death under communism, either. The people at the top are quite literally okay with everyone else under their authority dying. We can see this from the number of people they outright starved to death, despite the people being both willing to work and actually working, right up until the point that they were actually and literally starved to death. The communists didn't murder most of their victims with bullets, although they also killed millions of people that way, they were killed through apathy or lack of empathy, as fellow human beings.

When you view your personal ideology as more important than life and death decisions you make, which affect other people, you have become the embodiment of evil- someone with a callous disregard and disrespect for the lives of others. Ultimately, it shows profound disrespect for yourself. If you do not believe that every single person has intrinsic value and is worthy of life and basic human decency in your treatment of others, then you have de-humanized yourself and everyone else around you. In western law, we call that criminality. Criminality is a foundational problem with all extremist ideologies, of which communism is merely the most lethal example to date. No other ideology has killed so many people in such a short time span.

As such, communism is state-sponsored slavery / fundamental criminality masquerading as caring about the very people it mass murders at appalling rates. So long as humans are in charge, and especially the ones who exhibit the very worst kinds of anti-social behaviors of humans, that is what communism will always be.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-03 08:44:45

Did the USA or Australia go more Commie Bolshevik than real Communist Bolsevic of the past?

How did acknowledged men of the past deal with plagues, or mass hysteria insanity and other crisis or what would writers and leaders of the past think if they knew figure heads, both good and bad extreme, the icons, leaders and statues and names like George Washington, the Kings and Emperors and military leaders, in some places Joe Stalin is still seen as a 'Leader', there are other men and writers and explorers and leaders Dutch navigator Willem Janszoon, David Hume, René Descartes, the British Captain James Cook, Robert E Lee, Christopher Columbus, Robert Milligan, Henry Dundas attacked their statues now ripped down. During a pandemic there were celebration of the Lawless a 'Juneteenth' more riots and 'We Wuz Kangz' they in a hysterial mob claim African Congoids with no written language, a people who ran away from wild animals naked, a people who chucked spears at their food, a people who had not even invented the wheel were now said to have been the inventors of math, biology, chemistry, economics. They were being kept down and they had special voodoo magic religion science-ish stuff they built the 'Pyramids of Egypt' and Blacks would live like that 'Wakanda' movie if it were not for the 'White Man' keeping them down! The head of a statue of Christopher Columbus was pulled off or chopped 'Taliban Style' and Winston Churchill's statue damaged but for what reasons??? did he offend 'islam' or gays or transexuals? Who knows the frenzy was out of control, the hive was turning on itself 'colony collapse' and all would be replaced by a new 'Saint' a drug addict criminal named George Floyd? Statues of Junípero Serra, Juan de Oñate even Abraham Lincoln was torn down and destroyed because he might have one time said something 'racist'. So was it justified or was it just as ISIS extremists torn down 'Art' and 'Statues' and smashed history of Arabia for offending islam in Syria and Iraq? How Bolsevik or crazy did the world get these past years and in past times hundreds of years ago?

I think it is a mistake to class the Communism of current China as the same type of Communism of Venezuela, the USSR, Mao's China or North Korea, there is something different about Chinese Socialist it seems they draw upon their own culture and history, it is a Unitary socialist republic, they are not stupid like Russia's 'Putin' and play the global economic game very well. At least in most of the West you still had a choice or masks or vaccine, while in China if you did not obey the rules you got to see a Swat team of officers mash your door in with a battering ram while wearing these bio-hazzard suits and forcing people to take a 'jab' or forcibly putting a mask on their face or putting them in quarantine camps.

Did Australia during Lockdown really go fully oppressive and 'Restriction' actually become more Communist than Communist China? and did a place Minneapolis, Minnesota, become more Bolshevism-Revolutionary than Soviet Marxist–Leninist riots long ago in Russia? people in Chicago run out and 'Burn' streets and they 'Murder' each other and 'Loot' , the orgy of murder spreading across multiple US cities and then protests even moving across the world to France, South Africa, Great Britain, Brazil, Poland, Sweden, Germany, Canada protests going as far away as New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan, Australia....in the middle of a Damned Pandemic that was supposed to be fatal and deadly! Cops do something wrong, there is corruption and sometimes you have bad individual police. Yet suddenly comes an answer from hypnotic wizardy of the tv, social media and radio, march for the Criminal and Convict named 'George Floyd'! march and support a convict a drug addict who died of a Fentanyl overdose while attempting to tamper with and hide evidence, march for this criminal The 'Mobs' of people fighting, protesting for an African American victim 'man' who pointed a gun at the belly of a pregnant woman. I watched a number of commentary videos online and it would seem for many that 2019-2022 blurred into one long never ending year, a world fighting a virus with their own version of global effort and local effort. For many that desire freedom they claimed that 'Liberty' or progress has gone backwards, maybe we have lost communication and up close personal interaction the intelligence of people is down, the IQs of planet Earth will have dropped. It had a shock effect on global systems, economic business and more than 500 million schoolchildren worldwide will have missed out on a year of classes since the beginning of the pandemic. A new standard compacting education at super speed trying to get exams passed while standards of learning for College and University will have dropped world wide and 'Education' as a whole may never be the same.

Are we in times of political extreme, for example why a groups constantly fighting other groups. When a greedy corrupt narcissist political person does something bad, why is that individual person judged as not as a corrupt individual but 'The End of Democracy' and then groups of people are lured and seduced by an even worse system 'Communism' and its not just left you will probably find some nut from the 'Conservative Right' who also want a Christian Caesar figure or thought 'Q-Anon' posted truth and would save everyone. It seems each side can be seduced by nonsense.

During the 'pandemic' I talked with people who were pro-government and supported Big restrictions and people who were against Government rules, some came from 'Eastern Europe' who lived through communism were almost in their own personal 'war' and fully believed that if they wore a 'Mask' or took a 'Vaccine' that Communism would return and it would also take over the entire planet Earth. I might have a few times calmly disagreed with something but never once argued loudly, shouted at any of them left or right, even if I thought some of their ideas ridiculous.

in news media it says we have 'won' we have defeated the virus, global economy is back from Trump a boogeyman, the perfect hothead narcissist hyped as 'monster' by news, the man who would crash the world or who tried to steal it away.
From day one they disliked Trump, 'Pissgate' claims that Donald Trump hired prostitutes to "perform a urination show" on a bed in the where Barack and Michelle Obama once slept during an official trip to Russia. A story pushed by CNN, published by BuzzFeed that allege Donald Trump has deep ties to Russia, a British former intelligence agent involved. 'Jim Acosta' even gaining national attention for President Donald Trump's clashes with him at press briefings while trying to promote tabloid gonzo journalism news 'gossip'. Could the media get any worse?
yes!!
They could encourage mobs of hundreds of thousands to go out and burn and riot for 'George Floyd' in the middle of a damned pandemic!
and they say across the West, the pandemic is over? Lifting all coronavirus restrictions while offering a new vaccine booster jab thing?

Yet I wonder have we 'Lost Something' in these insane years.
In South America a similar Q-Anon Tea Party insanity arrives in Brazil, the 8th January 2023, very similar scenes that happened in the USA, following the defeat of then-president Jair Bolsonaro in the 2022 Brazilian general election, a mob of his supporters attacked Brazil's federal government buildings in the capital, Brasília over run the building and claim votes are rigged. The country of Brazil at 699,000 + Deaths for the Corona Virus was one of the worst in the world only beaten by the USA's numbers.

Different responses in the English-Speaking Western World truly showed how different some countries were to each other.

A fifth COVID vaccine will be available to Australian adults this month. Here's what you need to know
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-02-08/ … /101944478

Covid 19 coronavirus conspiracy theories soar after latest report of origins
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid- … FY6SI5GME/

'Communism' can politically 'Woo', 'Capture' minds, it is like a religion in a ways that it can seduce some but it just doesn't work, it has caused neighbor to turn on neighbor, it has mass starvation. It makes all suffer, it shuts free thought and closes the mind. Politics often has a way of putting some under a hypnotic spell so sometimes if you speak freely to people on taboo subjects, politics, religion and you bring up Communism to a Far-Left they will defend it. When you speak with a Limousine Liberal or "Gucci socialist" or I remember in parts of Europe they might say Salonsozialist, Rödvinsvänster, or Gucci socialist, Italian fashionable Radical chic or call them "champagne socialist" they will defend it. You point out places like Venezuela or North Korea and they will claim 'Not Real Communism'. If you speak to honest people who have lived through the USSR and Communism they will tell you how terrible life was, the influence of radical politics from the time of 'Bolsheviks'. A Police State, a dying economy, suddenly a declaration of 'Martial Law', people arrested and mass imprisonment. Yet one thing they will often defend is that social care was not too bad, even in the worst of times the hospitals seemed to be ok-ish. So if there is anything positive to take from 'Socialism' its that it had some kind of safety net that allowed sick to get treatment. Obamacare was a landmark Federal enactment signed into law, however it was politically divisive and many Republicans hated it. In our past we have seen all kinds of Plagues and Flu and Virus, the spread of Severe acute respiratory syndrome or SARS, Avian influenza bird flu, Camel Flu Middle East respiratory syndrome MERS, Hogflu or Swine influenza which some reported linked to the ‘Spanish Flu’ pandemic. I have seen many news reports as to where Covid-19 came from with all kinds of 'conspiracy', some say it stuck to some guys shoe or Laboratory coat and the Chinese through bad practice or totally accident seen it escape from a Lab, people start coughing and it explodes across the world, I also seen conspiracy it came after some person ate a Bat that was in a Chinese soup, there is also almost random wildlife trade on the Huanan wet market in the city of Wuhan Hubei, China where Chinese people eat almost anything and everything. There is also a generally accepted theory of zoonosis an infectious disease of humans caused by a pathogen a bacterium, virus, parasite or prion that can jump from a non-human usually the vertebrate to a human and vice versa. They even say HIV was a zoonotic disease transmitted to humans in the early part of the 20th century, when an African man had sex with a monkey or raped a monkey? and though it has now evolved into a separate human-only disease? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1088484
The response to the COVID-19 Pandemic will be studied for many years to come, some governments responded harshly they enforced Lockdown tried to make vaccination compulsory, pushed ideas for vaccine passports, restricted travel and even sent out 'Police' in body armor with horses and stick and baton weapon to beat down their own people who did not follow the rules. I believe the United States of America is too free a country and its people would not tolerate such a strict Lockdown, there were countries like New Zealand and Australia that were under Testing, Lockdown, Restriction Rules for Two and a Half years. Brutal Lockdowns caused Business to 'Shut down', it hurt family and mental health, it damaged the economy, Suicide Rates explode and Alcoholism explodes and Drug Use in parts of the world 'Sky Rocket'.

I would like to see how each nations counts these stats and like to know how many of these American 'Deaths' had underlying conditions?
USA - 105,300,000 + Cases
USA - 1,146,000 + Deaths
if you were to judge the USA it came in almost worst place, almost far worse than any other nation on Earth. When I looked at the Death Counts per person compared to people, per millions of Population the data was almost as I expected, a lot of former USSR countries that resisted restrictions because they believed if they listened to the government that 'Communism' would return, all nations with higher death tolls Slovakia, Georgia, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, North Macedonia, Hungary and the sad political fact is maybe this was a price some of them wanted to pay, they would have rather died than wear and mask or wear gloves or die rather than follow whatever rule the government want to give them? San Marino, Brunei, Iceland, Gibraltar might have got the balance more right, starting restriction but then when a less lethal variant of the virus arrives they open up and allow it to burn through the population to achieve herd immunity, people will still die and its difficult calculation to make as a leader or a King or leading Government or President. An interesting case is the Swedish, they would be classed as a Leftwing country by media and Trump classed as Rightwing but Sweden also did not fully support Lockdown or Vaccine or Restrictions. The Swedish are already a 'stand off' culture, they do not kiss and inter mix like Latin culture so when looking at Sweden it can be better to compare it with other Nordic countries, Sweden's strategy became a failure when the virus got into old folks homes and burned through killing the elderly, when compared to the countries that resemble Swedish culture like Norway, Finland, Denmark, the country of Sweden was suddenly ranking last place. It is possible the Swedish government made a politically calculated decision to keep Sweden open because the leftwing government wanted to keep the Sweden Democrats from power, this party is classed as nationalist and right-wing by Swedish media. Perhaps the Sweden government was thinking they would keep the Anti-immigration Eurosceptic Conservative party out of power by staying open for business during the pandemic.

Can you blame it all on 'Trump'?
maybe not
703,000 + Americans have died from COVID-19 under President Joe Biden who promised he would "shut down the virus."

The mindset of Communism has killed millions but the good thing about Democracy is you can still in some ways hopefully remove them peacefully and vote them out
Receiving only 16.4% of the vote, Lightfoot of course blames it all on 'Racism' against her Lesbian Black self.

kbd512 · 2023-03-03 13:23:01

The mindset of Communism has killed millions but the good thing about Democracy is you can still in some ways hopefully remove them peacefully and vote them out

America was founded as a Constitutional Republic because there's nothing "democratic" about Democracy. There were lots of very good reasons for forming a Republic, chief amongst them being that democracies devolve into anarchy and then tyranny.

The socialism / national socialism / communism death cult has killed well over 200 million people. Only the Bubonic Plague has been similarly destructive to humanity as these arrogant and murderous cretins who call themselves socialists or national socialists or communists. They're a plague on humanity more destructive than COVID could ever hope to be.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-03 15:10:13

Najibullah at the UN compound when the Taliban soldiers came for him, tried killing him and tried to have him hung in the street but he wasn't dead so they finally tortured him to death, as their so-called prophet mohammed used to do with 'infidels' back in the day and they dragged his corpse behind a truck through the streets of Kabul.
https://web.archive.org/web/20130411033 … -illusion/
one problem I would have with this article is it fails to mention 'Carter' who actually got it all rolling before Reagan.

After the guy was hung Sharia Law style from a lamp post and soon the islamic country ran out of food and electricity.

The USA and United Nations issued a strongly worded statement but no vision, not knowing Embassy bombings, 1993 World Trade Center bombing or 911 could be one one day coming from this backward end of the Earth a demonic jihadi controlled hole void of civilization with zero humanity.

People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan PDPA a Marxist–Leninist political party in Afghanistan from 1965.

Socialism or Jihadism for Afghanistan, maybe neither but if forced to make a choice maybe Socialist idiots could be a better pick?

kbd512 wrote:

Only the Bubonic Plague has been similarly destructive to humanity as these arrogant and murderous cretins who call themselves socialists or national socialists or communists.

I would argue 'islam' is up there as some of the darkest most evil writing and culture in human history, and this is not my experience I talked with people I met Africans and Indians who absolutely hated islam not muslims as people but hated the ideas of islamism

Western people like Bill Warner, Randall Allen Terry, political activist, blogger and commentators have had people talk about numbers and they rank over the years global Islamic invasion caused 250 + million deaths? Communism clearly is the newer super villain kid, it has new 20th Century to 21st Century toys however we must also take into account there are more humans around to kill today. Thanks to biological medical progress, thanks to trade and things like 'penicillin' there are more people on Earth and therefore the sad fact is we have more available to kill. Communists also had access to an arms industry, a modern police state, they built warships and tanks and had AK-47 weaponry. An automatic assault rifle or a missile is going to be a far more efficient weapon at killing than an islamic sword weapon where people go around individually go hand to hand stabbing and hacking and chopping people one by one like a Rwandan Genocide. I believe the intent in primitive religious murder and political technological levels in murder are two separate things, if the 'Taliban' and 'ISIS' who are basically fanatical religious guys on camels, they have Toyotas and Donkeys, they are criminal terrorist killer guys that make improvised bombs. The Taliban is low tech, on their tech level they have guns, swords and rocket launched grenades, its not high technology but zealotry makes up for the tech gaps. They as the new islamism flavor believe the other side is an 'Infidel' but if they had access to modern weapons, laser guided Bombs, new explosive chemistry, modern Airport and Shipping port, if they had Drone Ships that could sneak into the other port into night, Aerial Warfare, MiG-23s, Tomcats, F-16s, Multirole aircraft Tornado, MiG-29s, germ weapon, chemical attacks, 'Mustard Gas', Spy Satellites, Military Transport, Destroyers, Perry-class frigates, Kashin-class ships, French style Cassard-class ships, Submarines, Su-25, Harrier jump jets, F-14 they could probably have murdered up to half a billion before Operation Enduring Freedom, the Global War on Terror and the West politically responded. I don't disagree with you Communism is one of the worst things to happen this planet. Yet there is part of me that even thinks 'socialism' for Afghanistan might be slightly less worse than 'islamism'.

Death Cult? How Dangerous would islamism be if given the terrorists were given technology of places like Vietnam, France, Great Britain or Russia? a 1400 yr old kill them all total war mindset but with new age weapons?

However because people like Bill Warner are Western when they discuss political history I take their 250 + million figure with a pinch of salt, however islam did terrible things across the planet, they will go as far as to bomb an embassy in Argentina because of some offense, they will go to kill Hindu culture that is largely unreported in the West, some like Saudis were directly involved in 911 and some like IRan scream Death to America and call for Israel to be wiped off the map, some are currently involved in genocides, massacres and slave markets even today. Unless you read those old total war battles in past history the West has not seen its full genocide and ferocity, there are certain rules under jihad where a Christian or Jew might survive as a type of lower class dog or servant, the 'kuffaar' the dhimmitude servant sometimes are allowed survive to pay extra taxes, they must give more tribute to be allowed survive in a special dog servant way as it says in their so-called holy books. However there was no such rule allowing a Buddhist or a Hindu or a Yezidi to survive and live, which is why islam can be especially brutal to non-Abrahamic religion culture. I personally find people like Tarek Fatah, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Salman Rushdie and other former Apostate Ex-muslims or Ex-muslim Atheists to be more credible as they can truthfully describe their life from both sides.

People can be politically stupid. Even if you are an insane idiotic Leftwing Loony living in some crime ridden part of California or NewYork or Chicago supporting a George Floyd riot you can still one day wake up and you can quit this neo flavor of marxist 'Communism' maybe even educate yourself and do good. However islam punishes 'Apostasy' by Death under islamic Sharia Law you are born into islamism and you are only allowed leave islamist religion upon death. Even when islamics 'escape' to the West they can go 'sudden jihad' over some perceived offense, a paint and film maker 'Theo van Gogh' is stabbed in European streets, some Christian preachers with a pig or Bible can be stoned or smashed with bottles by angry jihadi people in Dearborn Michigan in the United States, threats of 'Death' are sent to the South Park cartoonists...and sometimes rather than condemn terrorist attacks a culture of islamics will take to the streets with signs 'Je suis Mohammed' and 'Freedom of Speech Go to Hell! to support their fellow terrorists'
Not every Islamic country will kill their people for 'Apostacy' some will jail and rape and beat their own people for the offense to the pedophile Moongod of Babylon called al-Lah. Other islamic countries class 'Converting' a Muslim to something else as 'A Crime'. Egypt which is more open and secular and tolerant compared to other islamic nations only takes the kids off the parents, the State seizes ownership of the child in interest, public morals, or decency while the Egypt mob has other ideas a Pew Research Center poll showed that 84% of Egyptian Muslims believe those who leave Islam should be punished by death.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140228192 … 2-2010.pdf

The strange thing about the Chinese is they don't even class the Western Marxist Communist they call them 'Baizuo' 聖母 or 圣母 it combines the 'holy' ideogram character with 'mother' and adds 'White' with 'Holy' but the word is like an insult or a curse, Baizuo the White-Left used to refer to weird alien Western leftist ideologies primarily espoused by odd 'White People' a White people who will only be satisfied when the White is the Loser, China sees it as an alien xeno culture a Self Hating Ethnic People and strange alien Self Hating Culture Group?
What ever way radical Leftism moves in the West the Chinese do not recognize it anymore, its new social justice ideas are beyond alien to them.

Poland, East Germany, Armenia, Turkmenistan, parts of Austria were all Communist, before this some were Fascist and in the East Japan worshiped the Emperor as a 'Divine Man'. They are all different places today, the are no longer 'Commie', America could even sell Coca Cola open up a McDonalds and in Germany and Japan they started to make 'Cars' to sell to America
However you can not do much with an islamic people who are expected to
Go to the Mosque and Pray Five Times A Day!

Jihadism or Socialists for Afghanistan, like I said if you are a silly socialist maybe one day you often have a chance to quit.

When given the choice to completely destroy islamism after 911 by dropping more 'Funny Cartoons' making a mockery of the pedo terrorist they call a 'Prophet' the West made the choice not to offend islam. So as America won against the Taliban, started to take control of 98.5% of Afghanistan, controlling all battles all roads, the higher ups decided to reverse their gains and spread more islamism, the 2004 Constitution describes Islamism as its most sacred Laws. Rather than defeat Taliban, Al-Qaeda, ISIS cultures the USA instead legally supported it and then build a government that stated the most commonly practiced faith throughout Afghanistan is islamic jihadism. The islamist Law stated followers of other religions are "free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites" within the limits of islamist Sharia Law.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-03 18:19:43)

kbd512 · 2023-03-03 18:52:56

Mars_B4_Moon,

You keep fixating on Islam and Sharia law, but they fixate on killing their own people to the point that they're more of a danger to themselves than anyone else. Whenever their women finally have enough of their barbarous behavior, then they'll simply cease to exist inside of a generation. Even many of the men living in the Islamic countries are starting to view what their governments do to their own people as the butchery that it always was. My advice is to present a better alternative. If we start killing people on the basis of religion, which seems to be what you're implying the US should have done, then we're no better than them, and arguably worse since many of them have never been taught any differently. I think you fail to grasp that part of the American experiment is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

They don't want to be like us here in the west and it's not our business to tell them what to believe or how to live. That's the kind of thing that socialists or national socialists (socialists who think they're better than other socialists) or communists do. Americans are not them. Moving on... They require periodic reminders that if their more radical adherents attack us that they will be annihilated in much the same way the Taliban and ISIS were. All I saw of the Taliban when they returned looked like a bunch of old men and young boys. I don't know why you're so worried about them. They're not taking over anything but the place they used to live. The totality of their ideology prevents much more than that. Most of them aren't educated beyond the Koran (a real shame since some of the brightest mathematical minds came from that part of the world), the ones that are mostly detest the behavior of the uneducated ones (we all know why that is), and their women are starting to despise both their men and their governments (hell hath no fury...), which are almost exclusively men (their choice, but it limits perspective).

Our higher-ups thought that the Afghanis wanted their freedom, something only a western-style government can provide in practice, but what they actually wanted a theocracy that they agreed with. In the end, they simply got the Taliban back. Maybe that is what they wanted, but I don't think it's an improvement over what they had when America's military was there. I was in the Navy when this insanity kicked off. Our carrier was immediately deployed and our air wing started dropping bombs. They were already living in the Stone Age before we arrived. Calling a 1,000 or 2,000 pound bomba "precision weapon" is a bit of a misnomer. It will precisely eliminate most things within a city block. Overall, I think we wasted a lot of money before "discovering" that Afghanistan was never going to return to the way it was before the Soviets invaded, at least not within one generation.

Neither the Iraqi Army, nor the Taliban, won a single battle. Think about how disorganized your forces have to be to fail to win one battle over the course of 20 years. They're not a credible threat, except to unarmed civilians. If the civilians were armed, then they're just not a credible threat to anyone except themselves.

I see no point in trying to be deliberately offensive towards people just because they follow a specific religion. I'm not real big on any form of religion, but that's because I see the problems that their believers don't. None are so blind as those who refuse to see, none so deaf as those who have heard but refuse to listen.

The much broader point is that America's military doesn't exist to wage ideological battles. We do not go to war against ideologies. We go to war against evil people who have murdered Americans or our allies. If you are the world's Policeman, then you don't have the luxury of favoritism. If someone does something wrong you either cart them off to jail or bop them over the head if they refuse to come along. Someone is bound take offense to practically anything, but our aim was to kill our enemies while they were trying to kill us, and to shield the innocent to the extent we could. When the shooting starts, nothing ever goes according to plan.

As far as their humanity is concerned, I would most likely not be writing this if it were not for the good will and faith of a follower of Islam, and his son. Some guys with AKs on the rooftops started chasing me and my corpsman. I don't know what they intended to do and never gave them a clear line-of-sight to find out. We ran right into a mine field in our haste to leave the area. That man led us out of it. He was under no obligation to do so, yet he recognized that we were Americans, we could not read the sign posted, and he still risked his life for us. We weren't even wearing our uniforms at the time, which is why we weren't armed. It was a supposed "safe area", despite the fact that the base was riddled with holes from machine guns and mortars. I will say that I'm impressed with how tough their mud huts are.

Laying every sin of the worst people who claim to follow a religion at the feet of all its other followers is how genocides happen. There are plenty of people who think exactly that way, but I'm not one of them. There are enough ugly aspects of life without making it worse than it already is. A more worthy endeavor might be focusing on how you wish to live your life, rather than on how others have chosen to live theirs.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-04 10:43:57

I support mockery and the dropping of toons not bombs, the ones in jail need to be fed Pork.

Pre-Islamic Arabia had amazing histories, peoples and cultures but genocided by islam.

Islamism or Communism, I am having trouble replying here

'server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.'

Some tried to shut down criticism of islam by calling it a race, it clearly is not a racial group when any idiot Black, White, Yellow or Brown can become an islamic. The strange thing about media consumption is we are often programmed to pick one of two teams, you must vote Red or Blue, there is good guy and bad guy, there is leftwing vs rightwing, there is Conservative vs Liberal, Rancher Cowboy vs Native Indian, pick one because there will be a good winner and a bad loser. So why do we never have a third and fourth choice, is this how we are programmed by 1 and zero in media, simple on and off button conditioning, a simple story with an even more simple and stupid answer. Maybe its even our sports entertainment which does this Dallas Cowboys vs Washington Redskins, Boston Celtics vs L.A. Lakers, the Sportsball Soccer Team Rivals you must pick Team A or Team B.
Some seem to operate on another level, they go beyond two clashing colors and infiltrate any group any race. Capturing the mind through spellcraft, 'ism' the ideas of Fascism, Communism, the Jihadi way of islamism and 'Stockholm Syndrome'.
Also I do not know if their 'women' will ever rise up, the human mind and body can put up with a lot of abuse. Some creature will still return for abuse just as an abused dog returns to its master, one islamic goal is simply to out breed the other side turning their women into baby making machines. Stockholm syndrome describes a recently understood psychological condition of a victim who identifies with and empathizes with their captor or abuser and their goals.

One aspect of civilization war which is not looked at is conquest of culture, the culture idea invading and religion and political conquest by way of people and not on a battlefield. even in Israel which often tightly controls it borders, it has far better military technology it still seems the Arabic culture might win, the muslim islamo Arabs are in fact fantastic breeders, Arab citizens of Israel are growing to outnumber Jews some day and more than 21 percent of the country's total population. More than 80 percent of the Arab population in Israel are Sunni Muslims, there are also are Shia Muslims around 9 percent are Christian Eastern Orthodox and Catholic, The muslim islamo Arabs are in fact fantastic breeders, Arab citizens of Israel composed 21 percent of the country's total population. About 82 percent of the Arab population in Israel are Sunni Muslims, a very small minority are Shia Muslims, another 9 percent are Druze, and around 9 percent are Christian (mostly Eastern Orthodox and Catholic there are some other smaller jihadi like cult sects not directly but indirectly connected by culture way to Iran and Saudi.

I consider maybe just maybe a form of Socialism Secular-ism because maybe it almost or could perhaps have kept things in check in Turkey and France but I have doubts. Even though Turkish are more islamic some of them were Western leaning, they studied Europe and American books, some were Francophiles and spoke French, when a nation had too many islamics, Ataturk's vsion seen where a military might one day have to start 'Crossing the Rubicon' and remove the jihadi superstitious islamists, re-establish Secularism and take down Theo-political symbols used by hijacking islamics.

and one thing media does not tell you on history is, muslims painted mohammed.

'Islamic Depictions of Mohammed in Full'
https://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_ima … c_mo_full/
Medieval Muslim artists often created paintings and illuminated manuscripts depicting Mohammed in full.

While islam is Evil that is not to say all muslims are bad wicked people or terrorists, individual muslims can have good qualities as an individual person, even in the worst of times there are people who show 'humanity'. A long time ago a group called 'Thuggee' in their own ways were a 'Religion', some pray to older Hindu Indian Sanskrit Gods of Death, some of the gods Arabic in nature but they were a historically, organized gangs of professional robbers and murderers in India, some writers in India say the original 'Thugee' were groups of tribes and Muslim families who fled after murdering a favored slave of Akbar.
Perhaps the mistake the Conservatives made was is calling it 'Islamo-Fascism' if they called it 'Islamo-Communism' could it have caused less or more outrage. In the history of our Earth we as humans have this event Raising a mortal human man into 'Apotheosis' brainwashed to raise a person can magically become like a deity, a Man moving to the highest point of 'Godhood'
it does happen even today, take for example North Korea and the Kim cult. Perhaps at any time humanity can de-evolve a new jihadi leader comes along, a new Soviet Supreme Leading Man an Imperator Emperor Pontifex maximus any criticism of this religion leader man is Non-Halal it is Haram no Kosher an Offense to the Church and Synagogue and Temple, any critical word highly blasphemous, 'Death to the Infidels' they say!

So in the past times of Earth the Germans said the Jews, the Gypsy, the Homosexual and the East Socialist were to blame for all problems and in Japan they blamed the West and the sick weaker Yellow men of Asia. Through mysticism, secret society method and religious infiltration, fake history, book burning and pseudoscience eventually help hijackers take the minds of a nation they promote imperialism and killing. Both Japan and German were very much religions in the way islam is classed as religion and both Japan and Germany both teaching the infidels followed "false and evil principles".
but can you imagine at this time, FDR, Truman and other leaders of the West going on tv and saying 'Hirohito Is Peace' or 'Not All Nazis'
Absolutely Impossible! people would say. What a stupid scifi time travel book to write.

However imagine outside of reality for a moment, beyond scifi and in a fictional story, in some fantasy book your magic hypnotic wizard leader is dead and instead of him dying and staying dead, rotting in the ground he somehow lives. In real experiences a Corpse Rots and becomes worm food or burning on some fire or decaying and turning to dust...they instead raise up the 'zombie'.

not by AI or cloning or Robotics but by 'magic' religion warlock method.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-04 12:52:33)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-04 10:44:57

if need be I will go line by line, word by word, letter by letter and see what exactly is getting blocked by filter.

It's an older religion folklore method, older than stories of Mary Shelley Frankenstein's Monster, old like the Gohlem in Jewish folklore and by way of Black Magic and Witchcraft, Powders to drink and alter the mind and Hypnotic Warlock Sorcery, the 'Necromancer' they bring back the Old Gods, "Mad Arab" and a book the Quran or Koran is reborn as written Law, to disobey this islamic Law they spell hypnotizes the mob to execute the punishment of death upon the Apostate. This strange 'Death Cult' of 'islam' and its mythology forever reborn until that magic book is mocked and broken.

This also is not to say all muslims are terrorists and every muslims is evil, I'm talking about the mindset of 'islam' itself, made examine 14 hundred years back and the terrorist pedophile Moohammad from 1 Thousand 400 years ago who founded the religion. I'm sure back in the day during the worst of Communism and the worst of Third Reich Fascism there are also a number of good stories, people who did the right moral thing, women who were just going about their lives baking bread, sometimes in a Hollywood film sometimes they will put one of the many, many stories in scenes of war and chaos to have a heart warming story in all this madness.
Nazism wasn't just war and neither was the Japan Empire, after the War Germany is under Occupation zones British, American, French, the Soviets to the East, decades later eventually the Wall of the East 'Falls' Constitution of Japan of 1947 declared the Emperor to be a mere 'symbol'

Some people think 'Art' is sometimes downstream from overall culture, so let me bring up a name 'Andy Warhol' he was probably degenerate and drinking a drug person but some say he was important for 'culture', a radical feminist one time almost shot and almost killed him, he was an American visual artist, experimental film director, a leading figure in the visual art movement known as 'Pop Art'. Now imagine that 'Andy Warhol' makes a strange funny picture of Joe Stalin or Emperor Hirohito or Mao he paints their heads green or gives them alien colors on their faces. Now does anyone care for art today, it all can seem like meaningless stuff which has no impact on our lives, do you think back to writings then 1950s, 60s, 70s? Did any zealots attack his art...the feminist who tried killing him was clearly a radical.

Hundreds of Thousands of modern Marxists or fans of Japan from its former colonies would go out and Riot, Burn and Attack multiple Embassies burning some to the ground because of some offense against their Andy Warhol mocked 'icon'
Did it happen?
Well that's exactly what happened when someone said something that offended islamism and drew a funny picture

and garbage writers from the LA Times, the BBC, the Washington Post, the New York Times even today sometimes went through their own mental gymnastics to defend the terrorists

https://web.archive.org/web/20130921063 … 02865.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20150107223 … rtoon.html

Even rightwing channels Fox News were afraid to show moohammmad

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-04 11:22:09)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-04 10:46:07

I wonder if a phrase or word is triggering something

kbd512 wrote:

Mars_B4_Moon,
My advice is to present a better alternative. If we start killing people on the basis of religion, which seems to be what you're implying the US should have done, then we're no better than them, and arguably worse since many of them have never been taught any differently.

I think you're totally getting me wrong I am presenting 'comedy' a comedy that Obama or George Bush Jnr refused to support, I'm talking about mockery in constantly attacking their stupid islamic book. We can mock, just as people say Commie and Fascists were garbage, there used to be toons of Bugs Bunny and Superman and Captain America and Popeye fighting these guys back in the days and nobody once thought let's think about the sensitive feelings of the enemy mindset that attacks us. Destroying not people but destroying their stupid book, people today can mock the words of Karl Marx the sociologist and political theorist, the Communist Manifesto can be mocked as garbage writing, people can mock Adolf Hitler you can mock Mein Kampf as terrible writing. Yet for some reason the mad man terrorist pedophile from 570 AD to 632 AD or Common Era who founded islam is not to be touched because it hides behind this 'religions' rights and feelings are so sensitive and not to be mocked nonsense.

You do know that back in the day almost before Lady Liberty was Free and the United States of America was even born it already at war with North African islamist Empire and the 'Mussulman'.

kbd512 wrote:

I think you fail to grasp that part of the American experiment is freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

What would America's Founding Fathers think of Thuggee custom or religions or guys putting exploding devices inside pop concerts, flying suicide attack with flying machines into high buildings what would Foudning Fathers think of 'Thugee' culture for example they worshiped old Hindu Sanskrit 'Death Gods', some old India god s might have been similar to Arabic gods and of Aztec Death Gods. How would founders see these 'religions' would they make moral relativism excuses for their behavior. Aztec rule is dead and there are probably some Aztec Ethnic DNA that survives today but the overall Aztec culture is mostly dead. That is not to say they were less fierce warriors in hand to hand, they won some fights they could fight Spanish Conquistador but Spanish technology gap was closer they had swords and muskets. The true conquest of the Aztec Empire came when other Native Americans who hated Aztec who seen their own family sacrificed on those altars and their hearts ripped out, Otomi, Chalco, Totonacapan, Zaachilaa, Xochimilco, Mixquic peoples hated the Aztec so much they even helped the Spanish invaders overthrow and defeat them. The Spanish defeated the Aztec Empire not just on the battlefield, they simply did not have the tech or numbers to win but they made alliances with rival Native Americans who hated the Aztec, the Spanish joined an alliance of tributary city-states of the Aztec Empire who wanted its culture overthrown. All I can say to this 'Freedom of Religion' is maybe you did not read all their books or somehow they have convinced you that back in the day they would have been friendly to Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson and maybe somehow on the world's political stage they won a political debate with their twisted words, maybe propaganda has probably got to you in some ways, I and many others think it wrong to class islam as a religion and it is definitely wrong to class it as only a religion. It is a subversive cult, it is an instruction on how to wage civilization war and it is a political and oppressive invasive system, infiltrate by way of trojan horse immigration, the Hijera or Heigra as mahomet invaded by stealth in his own books, when you are about to be exposed as an islamic 'Blend In' and become a trendy Lawyer or Town Leader for islamist rights, when your islamism is about to be exposed you can always decive and lie by way of Al-tawriya, Kitman, Al-muruna, Taqiyya, they can even smoke drugs and drink alcohol as long as they wage some kind of jihad, not on the battlefield but political jihad, stealth jihad and finally set up a beach head for infiltration by subversive Legal System by way of Sharia Law.

They state the Moongod al-Lah is one of the Greatest at Lying and Deception and his is worshiped for this.

Allah, the Best Deceiver (Korean 3 - 54 or Qur'an 3:54)

If you read something or hear something
do not take my word for it, political talk is often deceptive so decide yourself and examine and check out the information yourself to confirm if what I tell you on politics or history is a true opinion or false

Founders of the United States

Thomas Jefferson wrote something like this

The jihad ambassador answered us the Sharia Law right was founded on the Laws of the Moongod al-Lah and the pedo terror Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have answered their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all infidel they could take as prisoners, and that every 'Mussulman' who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise

That is not the quote but its not too far wrong, I'm sure you have a way of checking what your 'Founding Father' types and their written thoughts of it when they first met with this islamo mindset.
He is one of your true founding fathers, do you think it was his 'vision' to one day have islamism and Sharia Law and jihad culture spread across the streets of Dearborn Michigan? If you put him in a time machine what would he think of today?

and there are other quote from some other respected writers, thinkers, artists and leaders.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-04 11:24:10)

tahanson43206 · 2023-03-04 10:49:47

For Mars_B4_Moon ... re #10

Both SpaceNut and I have been encountering this error for some time. Thank you for reporting the error.

SpaceNut has reported the error to the Mars Society, and received back a confirmation the message was received.

The message is from the Apache web server which is running the FluxBB package we are using for NewMars.

I have found that by steadily reducing the size of the post, I can perform a Preview that generates a Submit request.

That appears to be what happened in the case of post #10

The strategy I'm using for long posts is (a) not to panic (b) save the post in external file (c) In preview mode, delete text until Submit appears (d) Submit

The balance of a long post can (from my experience) be delivered in a series of smaller posts.

I found a report in doing Internet searches, that there is (apparently) a conflict going on between Apache (the web server) and php (which is what we users are working with). In this case, Apache wins.

All this is documented in the Housekeeping topic, but understandably no one but SpaceNut reads Housekeeping, and I'm not even sure about SpaceNut.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-04 11:25:04

Again I support cartoons not bombs
but let's look at the artists and leaders and writers

Frank Zappa, an artist, guitarist, film maker, critically acclaimed musician, songwriter, composer, recording engineer.
Let’s say we have to make some ‘show of force.’ The most common scenarios involve small guerilla or terrorist groups. Nuclear retaliation? It has been suggested by others that Aerosol Pork Grenades would be a better deterrent — Islamic martyrs are denied entrance to heaven if they show up at the gate smelling like a pig. Denial of The Big Payoff removes a certain cachet from acts of voluntary self-destruction.

The culture of Ancient Iran greatly resisted islamism until it finally fell to islamists, Omar Khayyam a Persian polymath wrote.

'Allah, perchance, the secret word might spell;
If Allah be, He keeps His secret well;
What He hath hidden, who shall hope to find?
Shall God His secret to a maggot tell? '

Famous US writer Mark Twain noted for his novels Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
aka Samuel Langhorne Clemens
'That is a simple rule, and easy to remember. When I, a thoughtful and unblessed Presbyterian, examine the Koran, I know that beyond any question every Mohammedan is insane; not in all things, but in religious matters.'

Bhavishya Purana the eighteen major Hindu Puranas written in Sanskrit and attributed to Rishi Vyasa compiler of the Vedas.

'Mahamada portrayed as the creator of a demonic religion' by the command of Moon Gods and his followers will be called Musalman. This is clearly very bad description about Islam in Hindu text.

Jewish writings referred to Muhammad as a false prophet and an insane man.

In Epistle to Yemen there are Jew writing that "After Jesus arose the Muhammad the Madman'

Voltaire moving across France and Eastern Europe and Prussia the man François-Marie Arouet once wrote.
But that a camel-merchant Moo ham mad should stir up terrorist attacks and insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that he talks with the angel Gabriel; that he boasts of having been carried to heaven, where he received in part this unintelligible book, each page of which makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, he delivers his country to iron and flame; that he cuts the throats of fathers and kidnaps daughters; that he gives to the defeated the choice of his religion or death: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Turk, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him...in his own books Mahomet is unsure if Gabriel visited him or in fact he was tricked and instead visited by some demonic entity or djinn, many modern people believe Mahomet may have suffered some kind of mental sickness which gave him schizo visions.

Frank Miller Comicbook Cartoonists and Movie Writer now blacklisted by Hollyweirdos

For some reason, nobody seems to be talking about who we're up against, and the sixth century barbarism that they actually represent. These people saw people's heads off. They enslave women, they genitally mutilate their daughters, they do not behave by any cultural norms that are sensible to us. I'm speaking into a microphone that never could have been a product of their culture, and I'm living in a city where three thousand of my neighbors were killed by thieves of airplanes they never could have built.

Patton famous WW2 Army leader

To me it seems certain that the fatalistic teachings of Muhammad and the utter degradation of women is the outstanding cause for the arrested development of the Arab. He is exactly as he was around the year 700, while we have kept on developing.

Salman Rushdie a Desi Indian who grew up in muslim culture.
'The pope gets ridiculed every day, but you don't see Catholics organizing terrorist attacks around the world'

John Adams the second President of the United States and Founding Father
This book is a long conference of God, the angels, and Mahomet, which that false prophet very grossly invented; sometimes he introduceth God, who speaketh to him, and teacheth him his law, then an angel, among the prophets, and frequently maketh God to speak in the plural. … Thou wilt wonder that such absurdities have infected the best part of the world, and wilt avouch, that the knowledge of what is contained in this book, will render that law contemptible …

Winston Churchill
Compared islam in man as useful as Rabies in a Dog.
How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
Winston Spencer-Churchill grandson of former Prime Minister Sir Winston Churchill.
At its most extreme, authoritarianism is exemplified by the isms of the 20th Century — Communism, Fascism and Nazism. The Fascists and Nazis were responsible for the deaths of more than 30 million human beings, while more than 50 million are estimated to have been murdered by Stalin and the Russian Communists, while Mao-Tse-Tung and the Chinese Communists are believed to have accounted for some 80 million.
But today a new challenge — another ism — confronts us, and that is the challenge of Islamic fundamentalism. Extremist Islam has declared war on the rest of the world, as evidenced by their ruthless attacks across the globe — overwhelmingly targeted at innocent civilians.

or maybe modern culture is different today
are you telling me that guys who made works like Jesus Christ Superstar, Monty Python's Life of Brain, Mel Brooks, the guy who wrote Producers and sang Spring Time for Hitler and Germany a Gay Romp with Adolf, the South Park cartoonists...that these people of the West can no longer do comedy?

or maybe should not do comedy for fear of offense to a Sharia Law invasive political 'Death Cult'.

it is difficult to know just how many were killed by 'islam'
One site might look at a claim '270 million killed by jihad.'
https://www.politicalislam.com/tears-of-jihad/
This site says 'Islam Has Massacred Over 669+ Million Non-Muslims Since 622AD'
https://medium.com/@externalsourcesecre … 7f7ea34d93

Muslims themselves might trying blame it all on Hindus, and Christians and Jews and Buddhists and say they are the victims and muslim jihads only killed a few dozen, blame it all on infidels!

However any sensible person with a working brain understand that islam did not spread by chocolates, kisses and flowers, it was spread by the sword!

When ever people try to find something maybe ok about Fascism or Communism, like they were 'Strong Leaders' you will always have critics who look at history and expose the reality
the same for islam, it has its historical critics

'In fact, no ideology has been as genocidal as Islam…'

That is not saying a type of Communism or Socialism is not bad, Communism and Socialism are terrible but they are versions which might be less terrible than pure 'islamism'. Ecopnomist like Friedman argue absence of a free market economy under socialism would inevitably lead to an authoritarian political regime. Communism to function as a revolt movement needs its useful idiots, Serfs for its 'Revolutions' need bodies, it needs its lower educated class revolting, a people who are almost unable to write their own names, the unfree peasant of tsarist type Dynasty Russia USSR rebel, the left-wing want money and an anti-democratic and violent ideology, the mob rises to such anrgy numbers where it needs food and benefit and starts to overthrow a higher up Royal capitalism bourgeois class, the formula of civil destruction always the same or is Socalism starting to evolve? In Communism and Socialism there is suppression of individual rights, however I think sometimes 'culture' is mistook for Communism, for example Asians have a very Confucianism and Conformist Culture, in Nordic countries there is Janteloven or the law of Jante Nordic Scandinavians are not to be loud in front of their King, they are to behave and will be putting society ahead of the individual, if you speak out you will be hammered down like a nail. This 'culture' in Europe and Asia existed long before the invention of Communist politics. The landlocked country of Belarus could be classed as another of the Communist Dictatorships and it claims to be a presidential republic but all its elections rigged by Alexander Lukashenko, Russia claims to be Federal semi-presidential republic but is in fact another Dictatorship. Communist party is authoritarian or totalitarian it rules by suppressing and chases down so-called "enemies of the people". Just like Curfew, Martial Law during 1992 Los Angeles riots, Covid Lockdown the Red Government will force communist rule but for any reasons, many anticommunists remember how that communist regimes tend to impose harsh restrictions on the freedom of movement.
Would the USA consider Swedish and French government rule to be Socialist or Communist, Sweden is Left but did they push Corona Virus Lockdowns and would this make them less communist? Is Kim Jong-un real 'Communist' and does he also share religion elements with fanatic islamists? I would argue there is a 'cult of personality' element to the Kim family just as Jim Jones or Koresh Davidians were worshiped by a people who followed this system to its final doom, Stalin and Mao both had personality cults like Kim and could it be argued islamics with a poster of some islamist martyr are following islamo-Communism.

if in the future that little North Korea fat guy with rockets one day dies, Kim Jong-un and before he dies they write his words down into some kind of hypnotic jihadi communist religion book a new Quranish Moonie book that calls for 'Death of the Non-Believer'

Would the media of the Western World makes excuses for terror attacks when someone took offense to this Neo-Jihadi religion?

tahanson43206 wrote:

Both SpaceNut and I have been encountering this error for some time.

Thanks for your help, I also removed many foreign words, num lock Alt Codes, deleted any strange characters or 'symbols' from my post

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-04 14:19:19)

kbd512 · 2023-03-04 18:20:25

Mars_B4_Moon,

The error has to do with character codes that the software can't process. I've encountered the exact same error if I try to write in the TextEdit app of my Macbook and then transfer it to the reply section. It's not censorship, so far as I can tell. As far as that's concerned, free speech was intended to come up with better arguments as to why an idea or ideology or an assertion is wrong. Mockery or name-calling alone doesn't accomplish the end goal of free speech. You're expressing your displeasure with someone or their ideas, but not why. Worse still, people who shut down free speech are implicitly admitting that they're out of better arguments.

If we want to talk about the ultimate form of degeneracy, then that is always self-destruction. People like Andrew Warhola Jr were totally inwardly-focused (all about his own feelings), hence the drugs and drinking and general debauchery. What proportion of this was vanity vs self-loathing vs lechery (wanting to feel desirable to whomever he found appealing- and all that "extra stuff" was probably wrapped up in this). I don't have any proof and I never met the man, but it would not be keeping with human behavior if it wasn't. Who knows? If you listen to his description of being shot, he thinks "I'm here but I'm not really here". He's having problems with reality (drugs or mental illness, take your pick), which could explain lots of his behavior. If you were an artist and thought you were merely a character in a movie, then you wouldn't be overly upset with something that made for an interesting script, but he's far from the only person to describe has behavior or perception of the world in this way. Driven people either think they're doing the driving when it's obvious that they're not, or they absolve themselves of all responsibility (believe an external force is controlling them). It's a programming loop without an exit statement written into it or unreachable code (DO UNTIL unattainable_condition_is_met LOOP).

The other thing you realize about these artists who attempt to "live their art", is that they get involved in some very weird stuff while they're high on drugs, and they also feed off of the ideas of each other. Look at all the songs and art inspired by Warhol's Superstars. Ultra Violet (she has some French name I can't spell or pronounce) worked with Salvador Dali. That guy was most definitely an odd duck. I watched a documentary about his life and listened to a speech or interview he gave. He was definitely out there.

As far as art being downstream of culture, art is a part of culture. Each true artist strives to crate unique and original works that no other artist has produced, but this is very difficult to do, so many times the art is simply the artist's impression of something driven by inspiration from an existing thing they've observed. There are few truly original creative works that, when compared and contrasted with other works, show true creativity that cannot be duplicated by someone merely staring at contemporary works or past works. If you look at the body of work from someone like HR Giger, it's plainly evident that nothing else in the world looked like what he created, until he came along, at least not that I've ever seen.

A lot of the people who were born during or lived through the Great Depression and WWII were highly creative, possibly because they had to be, in order to survive, if not physically then mentally. I don't envy them. They had hard lives. I just wish I could've been around to witness what they created, but then I'd probably be dead today, and I can still look back at what they did, marvel at it, and admire them for who they were, what they were able to achieve, and what they had to work with. Modern technology has made everything very explicit, to the point that there appears to be less true creativity (from my own perspective, which is never guaranteed to be correct / apt). Most settle for inspired creativity, and many simply follow trends or glom on to a style of works created by a truly original artist.

There was a time when I was young and into art, but I quickly realized that my talents were in creating code or logic for more mundane business problems, and that is how I apply what little creativity I have. It's still interesting to watch how artists do what they do. Maybe I could've been lots of other things, but for whatever reason that actually stuck and nothing else did. It's provided a good living for my family and a handful of interesting problems- not that many to be honest, but a few optimization or classic math / computer science problems where some minor creativity could be applied, so I can't be too upset about that. The report graphing and data visualization is far more interesting, especially when bounded by constraints such as which colors and fonts and layouts you can use, as a function of company branding. It's always nice to get comments from business users who like looking at the charts and graphs or application UI (speed is king here). That's one-time fun, though, followed by the real work to make everything appear consistent. Some parts of the data science problems are also interesting to contribute to, but even if you come up with a good method to do something you then have to sell it to management and IT has to understand how to maintain the solution. Artists don't have to work within rule sets and what they come up with need not be useful, let alone practical.

Anyway... As far as dictators and ideologies and religions are concerned... I think you're wasting your analytical abilities on their nonsense. They've all been tried before, there's little to nothing new or untried in the realm of human behavior, we know what the results will be from history, and history doesn't change to suit the beliefs of its interpreter.

The Founders simply killed people who behaved like terrorists, whether as individuals or as part of nation-state warfare. They didn't waste too much time analyzing the finer points of their religious beliefs. The beliefs taught by Islam are a form of absolutism, and your policy prescription seems to be to treat everyone who follows any part of the religion in an absolutist manner, as if all of them believe the exact same things and behave in the exact same way. From my own interactions with them, in their countries, that simply doesn't describe reality. It's very reductive and we have enough reductive to solutions to anti-social human behavioral problems. Very few people follow literal interpretations of what's written in the Bible or Torah or Koran.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-05-30 05:23:32

More Communists in Space including on 'Civilian'

Shenzhou-16 takes Chinese civilian to Tiangong space station
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shen … -90lw7frd6

Pursues plans to send a manned mission to the Moon by the end of the decade
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/2 … -station-1

tahanson43206 wrote:

For SpaceNut and kbd512 ...
The Earth provides an amazing variety of examples of failure to study.

The Yugoslavia is an example of a Confederation that fails

Switzerland a Confederation that works

The Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRY), commonly referred to as SFR Yugoslavia or simply as Yugoslavia, was a country in Central and Southeast Europe. It emerged in 1945, following World War II, and lasted until 1992, with the breakup of Yugoslavia occurring as a consequence of the Yugoslav Wars. The Religion was a Secular state or State atheism.

Kosovo War was an armed conflict in Kosovo from 1998 until 1999 fought between the forces of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Serbia and Montenegro, which controlled Kosovo before the war, and the Kosovo Albanian rebel group known as the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). The conflict ended when the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) intervened by beginning air strikes in March 1999 which resulted in Yugoslav forces withdrawing from Kosovo. Some critics say the war was a distraction to the Lewinsky scandal when Starr reached an immunity deal with Lewinsky and obtained her confession of the affair. Clinton publicly apologized for having an affair with Lewinsky in September 1998. However this is a simplification and spin on the Presidency of Bill Clinton and too simple a description of a region in Eastern Europe with a long and complex history.

NATO peacekeepers hurt as Serbs fire up in Kosovo protest
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/ … da4770e32e

kbd512 wrote:

Very few people follow literal interpretations of what's written in the Bible or Torah or Koran.

You say 'Very Few' ...what do you mean by this, 200 people, 10 people, 5 people, twelve hundred or 25 thousand people or maybe 24 million? You have talked to me before about have details correct and pin-point accuracy so can you give me any kind of approximate number here

Stay with numbers
Interesting data from Pew research, like any political article I post take it with a pinch of salt but...

How do Europeans view Muslims?
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads … the-world/

In spring 2016, we asked residents of 10 European counties for their impression of how many Muslims in their country support extremist groups, such as ISIS. In most cases, the prevailing view is that “just some” or “very few” Muslims support ISIS, but in Italy, 46% say “many” or “most” do.

Muslims and Islam: Key findings in the U.S. and around the world
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads … the-world/
Favorable views of ISIS are somewhat higher in Nigeria (14%) than most other nations. Among Nigerian Muslims, 20% say they see ISIS favorably (compared with 7% of Nigerian Christians). The Nigerian militant group Boko Haram, which has been conducting a terrorist campaign in the country for years, has sworn allegiance to ISIS.
More generally, Muslims mostly say that suicide bombings and other forms of violence against civilians in the name of Islam are rarely or never justified, including 92% in Indonesia and 91% in Iraq. In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say such tactics are rarely or never justified. An additional 7% say suicide bombings are sometimes justified and 1% say they are often justified.
In a few countries, a quarter or more of Muslims say these acts of violence are at least sometimes justified, including 40% in the Palestinian territories, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% in Bangladesh.
In many cases, people in countries with large Muslim populations are as concerned as Western nations about the threat of Islamic extremism, and have become increasingly concerned in recent years. About two-thirds of people in Nigeria (68%) and Lebanon (67%) said in 2016 that they are very concerned about Islamic extremism in their country, both up significantly since 2013.

Sharia as the Official Law of the Land
https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/20 … ut-sharia/

Support for making sharia the official law of the land varies significantly across the six major regions included in the study. In countries across South Asia, Southeast Asia, sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East-North Africa region most favor making sharia their country’s official legal code. By contrast, only a minority of Muslims across Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe want sharia to be the official law of the land.
In South Asia, high percentages in all the countries surveyed support making sharia the official law, including nearly universal support among Muslims in Afghanistan (99%). More than eight-in-ten Muslims in Pakistan (84%) and Bangladesh (82%) also hold this view. The percentage of Muslims who say they favor making Islamic law the official law in their country is nearly as high across the Southeast Asian countries surveyed (86% in Malaysia, 77% in Thailand and 72% in Indonesia).15
In sub-Saharan Africa, at least half of Muslims in most countries surveyed say they favor making sharia the official law of the land, including more than seven-in-ten in Niger (86%), Djibouti (82%), the Democratic Republic of the Congo (74%) and Nigeria (71%).
Support for sharia as the official law of the land also is widespread among Muslims in the Middle East-North Africa region – especially in Iraq (91%) and the Palestinian territories (89%). Only in Lebanon does opinion lean in the opposite direction: 29% of Lebanese Muslims favor making sharia the law of the land, while 66% oppose it.
Support for making sharia the official legal code of the country is relatively weak across Central Asia as well as Southern and Eastern Europe.

Fewer than half of Muslims in all the countries surveyed in these regions favor making sharia their country’s official law.

Wow ' Fewer Than Half ' how open minded this culture of islamist jihadi savagery is even when living in the progressive liberal Western world

So here is the thing let's think about poison and M&M's multi-colored chocolate candy, not just Trump banned islamist immigration but Jimmy Carter did the same with Iran.

Kbd512, if I gave you a bowl of M&M's a hundred let's say, and before you ate them I told you '15' of them were messed up really bad, they were toxic and had something inside like radiation or anthrax or something. BUT I said to you don't worry you can eat them because the majority of these M&M's were 'good' ....would you still eat them?
and if you would not take these M&M's from me and eat them, how low would it need to go for you to be satisfied you had a good bowl of M&M's would you be more happy if only 5 out of a hundred were poison or maybe 2 out of 100?

Some news from that culture and religion

'It's nice to be back!' Salman Rushdie attends NYC PEN Gala in first public appearance since August 2022 knife attack which saw him lose sight in one eye
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … ttack.html

Pew Research Center might have some spin or bias I am not sure but it is a nonpartisan American think tank based in Washington, D.C. It provides information on social issues, public opinion, and demographic trends shaping the United States and the world
https://www.pewresearch.org/about/

a quiz here,
https://www.pewresearch.org/quiz/muslims-and-islam-quiz
I answered most of these islamic question and answers correctly but some 'percent' questions I got wrong but only a little off

I wonder if they have a Socialist do you know Marxism quiz?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-05-30 05:32:04)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-03-06 10:58:03

North Korea warns of military action amid U.S.-South Korean drills
https://www.staradvertiser.com/2024/03/ … an-drills/

The Cuban spy who blended into Miami life by going 'full Donald Trump': How Havana agent kept his cover

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … crash.html

The Diplomat
https://thediplomat.com/2024/03/laos-fa … an-leader/
How Vientiane approaches its obligations to ASEAN and its debt to China will be a key to the bloc’s fortunes in 2024.

The country of Egypt a semi-presidential republic under an authoritarian regime, they seem to have hated the chaos created duing the Bush junior, Obama and Trump years, seen the 'Arab Spring' turn into widespread war, fall of Libya, growth of ISIS, seemed to have joined the USA in operations against ISIS but that war left behind some political confusion across multiple regions, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Saudi Arabia and other players joining, French, British in from Russia etc ISIS has been almost completly destroyed but since the Fall of Kabul in August 2021 islamist terror groups have reformed and started to make a comeback.

Egypt sentences top leaders of the Muslim Brotherhood to death
https://www.africanews.com/2024/03/05/e … -to-death/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-06 11:02:07)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-03-23 12:30:39

Math arguments won’t inspire a shift to UBI.
https://galan.substack.com/p/math-argum … re-a-shift
The real story is about the moral imperative — a chance out of a dead end life. We need to get better at talking about that part.

The triumph of launching universal basic income (UBI) will never be solely about persuasion via maths

Stans were all part of the Soviet Union and gained independence in the lead up to collapse. While part of the Soviet Union, they were the republics of Uzbek, Kazakh, Turkmen, Tajik, and Kyrgyz. Post-independence, these former Soviet republics have taken on the Iranian Persian suffix “stan” – meaning “land” or an islamic Iran name for “place of” an old silk rad region that would have connected Rome to the Middle East to Greece and Turkey to an old trade route stretches from the Caspian Sea in the southwest and Eastern Europe in the northwest to Western China and Mongolia in the East.

the Ex-Soviet states once under influence of the Russian USSR, strategy they probably wanted Ukraine, East Berlin, Poland, Cuba, however they never really seem to have wanted to 'Stans' in the lastest terror attack in Moscow some on social media claim Tajiki are involved, an islamic culture with the variety of Iranian Persian spoken closely related to neighbouring Dari of Afghanistan, Azerbaijan is not a Stan it was part of USSR territory but was first ruled by Caucasian Albania and later various Persian, it was invaded by Ottoman Turk, Safavid Iran or Safavid Persia and invaded by cultures from a warlord of Turco-Mongol lineage, after the collapse of the Russian Empire following WW1 came short-lived Transcaucasian Democratic Federative Republic was declared, constituting the present-day republics of Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Armenia and then religion groups and tribe and ethnic groups killing each other March Days massacres, in the 1990s after the fall of the USSR the Supreme Council of the Azerbaijan SSR dropped the words "Soviet Socialist" here has recently been war between Azerbaijan and Armenia, with Turkey and Israel weapons suppliers to Azerbaijan and reports of arrival of Syrian mercenaries.
https://web.archive.org/web/20201004084 … SKBN26L3SB

Kazakhstan, the first of many space firsts the satellite, first manned flight, first woman in space took place in Kazakhstan at Baikonur Cosmodrome a spaceport still operated by Russia within Kazakhstan, Baikonur is also the site from which Venera 9 uncrewed space robotic mission to Venus was launched.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-24 10:59:14)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-03-24 11:28:33

Post-Communist and Post-Socialism and what if it is not planned, you break it like Iraq or Libya and you have no other plan
No Plan-B other than revolution and gun and break things? Massive protests broke out across Iran, firefights in the streets of Tehran, the Cinema Rex fire, iot must have been those damn Commies not those who were militants motivated by Islamic extremism reports said, the media ignoring reports of jihads which doused the building with airplane fuel before setting it alight. The attack was responsible in part for triggering the Iranian Revolution, the governing dynasty initially blamed "Islamic Marxists" for the fire, the USA even fought a War on Terror only to build an Afghan Constitution describes Islamism and Jihad and Sharia Law as its sacred law and the most commonly practiced faith throughout Afghanistan, the mindset from the Iranian Paksitani Indian Turkmenistani Durrani Empire is considered to be the foundation of the modern Taliban-ish jihadi StoneAge culture of Afghanistan with different Afghan tribes began fighting and then joining some cause or forming alliance with an islamist warlord.

Pictures can show you how cultures evolve

A Chinese picture painted in 1769 looks almost the same as Muslim from Afghanistan today, only the jihads got some new stuff they have modern Mobile US Cell Phone tech and modernish Soviet AK-47 guns

https://i.ibb.co/n1wp1qJ/126px-Huang-Qi … nistan.jpg

Women Leaving Islam: the rights of those who leave religion must be protected
https://www.secularism.org.uk/opinion/2 … -protected

In 2019 the British Social Attitudes survey revealed that more than half of the British population has no religion. Over the years many British people have chosen to leave their religion. For many, this is a gradual drift and the process is not necessarily difficult, especially if their families are not very religious. However, for others the process is not only painful, but also dangerous.

they are expected to go to the Mosque five times per day and it is said that moohammad married Aisha at 6 years old or maybe 9 years old he married her?

'Interview with an Apostate - Annie Cyrus'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcRlaW5ofeA

In a properly functioning civilization, there are public institutions that are supposed to educate us and protect us from our enemies. But we live in a decayed civilization where these institutions don’t function. So, we have fear of the violence from jihad. It is this fear that makes us flee from learning about and dealing with the foundations of Political Islam.
There are a few brave and hardworking fighters that face this fear and continue to speak out and educate us. One of these heroes is an apostate, Annie Cyrus. Here is my interview with her.

Some of the Ex-Soviet States and Yugoslavia briefly a Socialist State, Federal People's Republic of Yugoslavia a loose confederation of six republics, new borders drawn along ethnic and historical lines: Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Serbia and Slovenia once part of the the Non-Alignment Movement and islamic immiration from Albanian regions to Serb regions and other religion clashes and ethnic tensions and conflicts, the purpose of the Non-Alligmet organization was summarized by Fidel Castro in his Havana Declaration of 1979 as to ensure "the national independence, sovereignty, territorial integrity and security of non-aligned countries" in their "struggle against imperialism, colonialism, neo-colonialism, racism, and all forms of foreign aggression, occupation, domination, interference or hegemony as well as against great power and bloc politics." however Castro was a Communist, critics view him as a dictator who oversaw human rights abuses, also in Latin America People's Revolutionary Government (PRG) in 1979 after the Marxist–Leninist New Jewel Movement overthrew the government of Grenada, the only socialist state within the Commonwealth, United States invasion of Grenada began in October 1983, the USA and a coalition of six Caribbean nations invaded the island nation of Grenada, 100 miles (160 km) north of Venezuela, the day of the invasion is now a national holiday in Grenada, called Thanksgiving Day, invasion was criticized by many countries. British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher privately disapproved of the mission, the USA defended its invasion of Grenada as an action to protect American citizens living on the island including students, Bernie Sanders and Jesse Jackson went on Anti-War Marches in protest, Grenada would then have a Unitary parliamentary constitutional monarchy with the Queen of England or Charles III as the Head and King of Commonwealth realms, compared with other Soviet Communist influenced states like Angola, People's Republic of Bangladesh, South Yemen, Republic of Mali, Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, Ethiopia, the fall of those Grenada Socialists and story of Grenada might be good.

Moscow terror attack: Gunmen were recruited via messaging app from Tajikistan?
https://www.livemint.com/news/world/mos … 49825.html

Tajik President Tells Putin: 'Terrorists Have No Nationality'
https://www.barrons.com/news/tajik-pres … y-028bfa35

Kosovo PM: Britain should send more troops to protect us from Serbian invasion
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/ … -invasion/

Armenian PM: We’ll hand Azerbaijan some territory to avoid a new war
https://www.politico.eu/article/armenia … d-new-war/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-03-24 12:01:33)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-03 14:24:02

Cuba sentences 22-year-old mother to 15 years in prison for publishing videos of protests

https://english.elpais.com/internationa … tests.html

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