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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

Steel is being discussed, and it occurred to me that other structural materials may be of use in places such as Mars.

China seems to have something to offer: https://physicsworld.com/a/making-artif … rge-scale/
Quote:

Making artificial wood on the large scale
17 Aug 2018 Isabelle Dumé

We usually don't think of wood in space.  Mars seems to have the needed materials to do this I think.

I don't expect these products to behave exactly like real wood, but on Mars they may be of value.  Here is another:
https://tangentmaterials.com/?msclkid=5 … 20Material
Quote:

Made to Live On
Tangent’s sustainable building materials will perform better, last longer and look sharper than any others on the market. That’s why we’re one of the leading recycled plastic lumber suppliers in the industry.

With broad thinking, maybe something else could be used: https://modern-mill.com/decking/?msclki … g%20boards

Well, that is enough.  If it ever becomes possible to grow fibrous materials from Acetate and Oxygen, then large cave systems dug into Mars could supply the materials to make wood like products.

Done

We have this: https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists … osynthesis
Currently vascular plants can survive on Acetate to some extent, but cannot grow well.

Mushrooms will grow in Acetate and Oxygen: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … &FORM=VIRE
Quote:

Ecovative Design: Manufactured Wood Made Without Trees
YouTube
Bloomberg Originals
226.6K views

This requires materials from vascular plants, so not a solved problem, yet.  I do not know if an alga could substitute.  I am guessing it would not work as well. but who knows.

Another: https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ajaxhist=0

I wonder if you could make mineral wool fibers, and add algae or yeast into it and then grow mushrooms on that using acetate and Oxygen?
Agricultural waste would likely be too valuable, but you might be able to make some type of mineral wool in quantity and mix it with organic materials, for Mushrooms to grow on.

I think that might work.  It might be dangerous in habitat areas as for the mineral fibers, but might be usable on the Martian surface.  Might need some kind of protective coating, but maybe not.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-02-08 12:31:57)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,221

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

We now have four (4) topics with "wood" in the title ...

Wood and Wood Simulants in Space by Void
Life support systems    0    Today 12:05:02 by Void

Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools by Void
Life support systems    21    2023-12-06 19:18:33 by Mars_B4_Moon

Wood is Good for Wind by louis
Science, Technology, and Astronomy    23    2021-10-01 20:16:15 by SpaceNut

Steel yourself...wood this be better? by louis
Human missions    2    2017-08-20 16:34:57 by SpaceNut
Pages:1

If someone were looking for "wood" there would appear to be something to be found.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

Sorry (th) I did query for "Wood" but did not do a good job, it seems, but I think even so, the idea of mineral wool, organics, mushroom mycelium may be workable for Mars.

https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … ajaxhist=0

The above seems to be that same link, but if you continue to watch, at this point it led to a video on how to make a coffin with mycelium.
As I have said fibers that are not from plants, maybe could be included into a mycelium matrix.  Fibers of mineral wools, and perhaps plastic fibers, and then if you have it maybe plant fibers.

I think then adding acetate as food, and of course Oxygen, I think some really good stuff might work OK.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-02-08 12:54:13)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

It has occurred to me that you could embed plastic tubing into such a structure to make a heat exchanger.

Plastic tubing with cladding of miner wool or beta cloth, and organic matter included, growing mycelium to bind this together.
I also want to hang vertical solar panels on these.  (Some people have a pathology about solar panels, but I don't).

If we want to deal with solar thermal the similar can be done with tubing embedded in mirrors.  Then of course one face has to be given a shiny surface, probably of metal. 

Then you can use these things for at least a dual purpose.

One of the games I want to play is to tap into the deep cold of the Martian night.  If you have a thermal reservoir of some kind of stored heat, or maybe even geothermal heat, or nuclear heat, you then can tap into the deep cold that Mars can present in the nighttime or winters.

But also, the heat exchanger will allow you to play trick of other types.

You might shine heliostat mirrors at a solar panel to increase the output.  But if you overheat the panels, you then reduce the efficiency, and shorten the life span of the solar panels, but if you have built in cooling, then you can pull down the level of heating and save the extracted heat.  You could involve a heat pump process as well, as while the solar panel is warm, in the sunshine the panel is providing electricity at the same time.

This could work very well with ice covered hypersaline lake energy storage on Mars.

Done

Oh dear, I skipped over why I started a post in the first place.  I think that hot slag from some industrial process  such as metal work, could be turned into a mineral wool, for the above concepts.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-02-08 13:03:54)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

I am listening to this now: https://startalkmedia.com/show/the-myst … dentinger/
It is about fungi more or less.

I have not finished it yet.  I am not all that interested in the drug aspect.

I am very interested in composite organic/inorganic structures.

There is actual useful information in the video, but as I have said the drug aspect is not my thing at this time at least.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-02-08 20:18:24)

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Calliban

Member

From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 3,768

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

There is this: Synthetic wood made from recycled plastic.
https://www.readersdigest.co.uk/lifesty … hetic-wood

It is also possible to make wood-effect surfaces out of plaster.  These are textured with a wire brush before drying and are then painted brown and covered in a wax polish.  My parents made a lot of firepoof faux wood beams this way.  Most people cannot tell the difference from sight.  But they don't have the strength of wood and are easily scratched and damaged.  But if some one wanted wood effect surfaces on Mars, this is a low cost way of doing it that is better than wood from a fire perspective.

Last edited by Calliban (2024-02-09 10:19:46)

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"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

Indeed, the makings for this exist on many worlds, Mars being among those.
It is great to have metals, but they are sort of precious maybe and are not always the best solution to a need.

The further we travel out into the solar system the more makings for wood and wood substitutes, and the less metals.  Titan for instance.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-02-09 10:21:25)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,756

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

I do like the idea of using mycelium to knit together matrix structures of organic and inorganic materials.  Things that were alive and things that never were alive.

Mars is a place where various materials are possible to produce.

Making structure with Mycelium: https://en.reset.org/mycelium-construct … lid%20mass.
Quote:

To create these solid materials, mycelium is mixed with organic matter, which acts as a nutrient-rich substrate. As the mycelium spreads, it digests the organic components, forming a dense and interconnected structure. This process effectively binds the mixture into a solid mass.

So, mostly I am interested in fiber materials to be incorporated, if possible.  Fibers with high tensile strength.  Maybe something built out of fishing line (Plastics), mineral fibers, metal wires.  If it is economic then plant fibers as well.

The question is could acetate and Oxygen feed Reindeer Moss?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cladonia_rangiferina
A lichen, so of Algae and Fungi.  Seems likely.
Quote:

Uses
The reindeer lichen is edible, but crunchy. It can be soaked with wood ashes to remove its bitterness, then added to milk or other dishes.[14]

This lichen can be used in the making of aquavit,[15] and is sometimes used as decoration in glass windows. The lichen is used as a traditional remedy for removal of kidney stones by the Monpa in the alpine regions of the West Kameng district of Eastern Himalaya.[16] The Inland Dena'ina used reindeer lichen for food by crushing the dry lichen and then boiling it or soaking it in hot water until it becomes soft. They eat it plain or, preferably, mixed with berries, fish eggs, or lard. The Inland Dena'ina also boil reindeer lichen and drink the juice as a medicine for diarrhea. Acids present in lichens mean their consumption may cause an upset stomach, especially if not well cooked.[17]

A study released in May 2011 claims that some species of lichens, including Cladonia rangiferina, are able to degrade the deadly prion implicated in transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) through the enzyme serine protease.[18]

According to a study published in 2017, reindeer lichen was able to grow on burnt soil as soon as two years after a forest fire in Northern Sweden, indicating that artificial replanting of lichen could be a useful strategy for the restoration of reindeer pastures.[19]

It is also used for production of vitamin D3.[20][21][22]

Fiber is on my list of wants.  But it is slow growing, as its normal environment is very challenging.  Perhaps wiht GM, it could have accelerated growth with a liquid of water and acetate and also other nutrients.

Probably a better bet is to see if there is a grass or weed that can grow in low light and yet benefit from acetate and Oxygen.  Perhaps a grass.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-02-10 10:35:54)

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Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Wood and Wood Simulants in Space

somewhat related

Wooden Satellites
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=10513

Bamboo subfamily of the grass family,  a substitute or adjunct to good old tree solid woods.
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=6154