Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-05 15:55:49

This topic is added to the several topics already created about various aspects of mining.

The topic is added to the mix because it takes up the differences between mining for gold and for rare Earths on Earth.

The factors that govern availability of valable elements or minerals on Earth may differ off Earth, and there are topics available for off-Earth locations, so this topic will concentrate on Earth applications.

(th)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-05 15:57:33

In another topic, the subject of mining for gold on Earth came up. I decided to ask ChatGPT4 if gold and rare Earths might be found together, and learned chances are against it.

Exploring the Co-Occurrence of Gold and Rare Earth Elements in Mining
The possibility of finding rare earth elements (REEs) in a gold mine depends on various geological factors. While there are instances of co-occurrence, it's not always the case. Here are the key points to consider:
Geological Settings: Gold is often found in quartz veins within metamorphic rocks. Rare earth elements are typically found in igneous rocks, particularly in carbonatites and peralkaline granites.
Depositional Processes: The processes that concentrate gold are different from those that concentrate rare earth elements. Gold is often deposited through hydrothermal processes, while rare earth elements are part of primary mineralization in igneous rocks or in placer deposits.
Co-Occurrence: There are instances where gold and rare earth elements are found together, but this is specific to geological settings where their formation processes overlap.
Economic Viability: Even if rare earth elements are present in a gold mine, their extraction might not be economically viable due to the complexities and costs involved in mining and processing these elements.
Exploration and Testing: Determining the presence of rare earth elements in a gold mine requires detailed exploration and assay tests, including sampling, drilling, and analyzing rock samples.
In summary, while it's possible for rare earth elements to be present in a gold mine, it's not guaranteed and heavily depends on the mine's geological conditions. Extensive exploration and testing are crucial to ascertain the presence and feasibility of extracting these elements.

(th)

SpaceNut · 2024-01-05 18:13:29

Rare earth falls into the magnetics used in lots of things these days. With gold being used in lots of applications from space to electronics.

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-05 21:08:35

For SpaceNut re #3 ... thank you for your support of this new topic!

For RobertDyck... I asked ChatGPT4 to see if it could find a list of episodes of "Gold Rush", which I have seen occasionally on the History Channel. The History Channel is apparently rebroadcasting episodes originally prepared for the Discovery channel.

Gold Rush TV Series Episode Report
Gold Rush, originally titled Gold Rush: Alaska, is a reality TV series airing on Discovery Channel. Here's a summary of the seasons and episodes:
Season 1 (2010-11): 10 episodes, aired from December 3, 2010, to February 18, 2011``【oaicite:22】``.
Season 2 (2011-12): 20 episodes, aired from October 28, 2011, to February 24, 2012``【oaicite:21】``.
Season 3 (2012-13): 16 episodes, aired from October 26, 2012, to February 22, 2013``【oaicite:20】``.
Gold Rush: South America (2013): 6 episodes, aired from August 2, 2013, to October 18, 2013``【oaicite:19】``.
Season 4 (2013-14): 20 episodes, aired from October 25, 2013, to March 14, 2014``【oaicite:18】``.
Season 5 (2014-15): 25 episodes, aired from October 17, 2014, to March 13, 2015``【oaicite:17】``.
Season 6 (2015-16): 22 episodes, aired from October 16, 2015, to March 11, 2016``【oaicite:16】``.
Season 7 (2016-17): 22 episodes, aired from October 14, 2016, to March 10, 2017``【oaicite:15】``.
Parker's Trail (2017): 5 episodes, aired from March 31, 2017, to April 14, 2017``【oaicite:14】``.
Season 8 (2017-18): 20 episodes, aired from October 13, 2017, to March 9, 2018``【oaicite:13】``.
Parker's Trail "Guyana" (2018): 7 episodes, aired from March 23, 2018, to May 4, 2018``【oaicite:12】``.
Season 9 (2018-19): 22 episodes, aired from October 12, 2018, to March 22, 2019``【oaicite:11】``.
Parker's Trail "Papua New Guinea" (2019): 10 episodes, aired from April 5, 2019, to June 1, 2019``【oaicite:10】``.
Season 10 (2019-20): 22 episodes, aired from October 11, 2019, to March 6, 2020``【oaicite:9】``.
Parker's Trail "Australia" (2020): 10 episodes, aired from March 13, 2020, to May 8, 2020``【oaicite:8】``.
Season 11 (2020-21): 22 episodes, aired from October 23, 2020, to March 19, 2021``【oaicite:7】``.
Winter's Fortune 2021: 8 episodes, aired from July 30, 2021, to September 10, 2021``【oaicite:6】``.
Season 12 (2021-22): 24 episodes, aired from September 24, 2021, to March 25, 2022``【oaicite:5】``.
Parker's Trail "New Zealand" (2022): 10 episodes, aired from June 10, 2022, to August 19, 2022``【oaicite:4】``.
Season 13 (2022-23): 26 episodes, aired from September 30, 2022, to March 31, 2023``【oaicite:3】``.
Parker's Trail "Peru" (2023): 10 episodes, aired from April 7, 2023, to June 2, 2023``【oaicite:2】``.
Season 14 (2023-24): Dates to be confirmed as of September 29, 2023``【oaicite:1】``.
For more details on each episode, including summaries and air dates, please refer to the full list of Gold Rush episodes``【oaicite:0】``.

I was surprised to see how many locations were featured over the years.

(th)

Void · 2024-01-05 21:32:00

Sorry if my intrusion is a bad thing, but could you pan for gold on Mars, in old river sediments?

Rivers that ran under grinding glaciers for instance?

Maybe humanoid robots panning with a very cold salty brine.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-01-05 21:34:42)

tahanson43206 · 2024-01-06 08:57:32

For Void re #5

This topic is not limited to the Earth, although it is ** inspired ** by the possibility one of NewMars's members might have an opportunity to "pan" for gold on Earth.

Please bring your considerable skills to this opportunity. It seems to me that separating elements is going to be a highly valued and even essential capability away from Earth, as it certainly is here.

While I understand your use of the expression was literary (and certainly effective) my guess is that alternative techniques will be needed, and that the process will be automated.

As you search the Internet and other resources, you may find reports of element separation techniques that would be helpful on Earth as well as elsewhere.

(th)

Void · 2024-01-06 10:25:31

I know just a little. I think it would very quickly become important to consult people who actually pan for gold, and also join them with technological people, to find a way to do it on Mars.

The problem of a fluid to use on Mars is that when you have ground ice, your fossil rivers are concealed, and when you do not have ground ice, then you may not have sufficient water to do such a separation method.

Panning for gold may help to find a "Mother Load", Sluice Boxes might then be employed. https://www.goldfeverprospecting.com/sluiceboxes.html

Presuming you could expose a mining site, and also had sufficient water, I would not scoff at using a briny solution as the fluid.

Some people might think to use liquid CO2, but of course that will be trouble in its own way.

Hydrogen Peroxide mixtures can be dangerous for explosions, I believe but this article suggests that they can pull water out of the Martian Atmosphere: https://daily.jstor.org/we-might-have-a … d-on-mars/ Quote:

Hope from Hydrogen Peroxide
More than 15 years ago, my colleague Joop Houtkooper and I upped the level of scientific speculation on this topic by taking a different perspective on the puzzling Viking results. We suggested that microbial life on Mars might have hydrogen peroxide in their cells—an evolutionary adaptation that would allow them to draw water directly from the atmosphere. The mixture would have other advantages, too, such as keeping water liquid at freezing Martian temperatures, preventing the formation of ice crystals that would rupture the cells.

Well, that looks useful, to draw water from the atmosphere. A briny solution of Hydrogen Peroxide and water might be able to pull water from the dirt you dump into it. Before dumping the tailings out though you would need to dry them, without excessive heat that might cause the Hydrogen Peroxide to explode. Using a vacuum might work.

So, you might pay for your process by extracting water from the soil and then hopefully gold.

You may be interested in this (th): "Deep eutectic solvents": https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/article … d0re00458h

What if we query for "eutectic Hydrogen Peroxide"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_peroxide
Quote:

Aqueous solutions
In aqueous solutions, hydrogen peroxide forms a eutectic mixture, exhibiting freezing-point depression down as low as -56 °C; pure water has a freezing point of 0 °C and pure hydrogen peroxide of -0.43 °C. The boiling point of the same mixtures is also depressed in relation with the mean of both boiling points (125.1 °C). It occurs at 114 °C. This boiling point is 14 °C greater than that of pure water and 36.2 °C less than that of pure hydrogen peroxide.[15]

Quote:
Quote:

Phase diagram of H2O2 and water: Area above blue line is liquid. Dotted lines separate solid–liquid phases from solid–solid phases.

It is thought that the Martian Dust Storms may generate Hydrogen Peroxide on Mars as a snow. Should it then mix with water in the soil, perhaps it could percolate downwards to an aquifer, picking up salts on the way.

The average subsurface temperature on Mars, may or may not permit this in some locations, I think. Particularly if electric ground currents would flow during a dust storm and heat the subsurface.

The above is massive speculation, but now we have something to look for evidence for.

While there is Perchlorates know of, Hydrogen Peroxide is not proven, and also the ground currents are not proven.

At a greater depth, such a solution could remain as fluid, perhaps with an ice phase above, due to geothermal heating.

If this were somehow true, then an Aquifer may provide water, salts with minerals in them, and also Oxygen that could be extracted with minimal energy methods.

As for gold, I don't know if it could be exported, but a certain amount would be wanted locally for the technology of the economy.

Done

Last edited by Void (2024-01-06 10:55:49)

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#1 2024-01-05 15:55:49

Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

#2 2024-01-05 15:57:33

Re: Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

#3 2024-01-05 18:13:29

Re: Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

#4 2024-01-05 21:08:35

Re: Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

#5 2024-01-05 21:32:00

Re: Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

#6 2024-01-06 08:57:32

Re: Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

#7 2024-01-06 10:25:31

Re: Mining - Gold vs Rare Earths - Planning and Execution

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