Free Speech ZONE?

Christina · 2003-11-09 02:46:44

Well, if a group of you turn up at a rally, and find that you are unable to get your message across, what are you going to do? Shrug your shoulders and quietly walk away?

No, you're going to find a way to get noticed. And sadly that usually means being noisy and disruptive. Which instantly gets up the noses of anyone with an opposing point of view.

A vicious circle ensues.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-11-09 02:54:33

I may owe the Americans here an apology.
When President Bush was addressing the Australian parliament a week or two back, he was heckled badly by two Greens Party senators.
First of all, I'd like to say I was appalled at the unforgivable bad manners of those two hateful individuals. There is no excuse for such behaviour towards an invited guest of the Australian people, no matter what you might think of his/her politics. Some Aussie politicians wrote letters of protest against the Iraq war and presented them to Bush at the end of the speech. That, in my view, is a legitimate and dignified means of expressing dissent and I defend their right to do so, but draw the line where it impinges on the natural right of others to say their piece. The Greens attempted to deny your President that right.
Second, I apologise in case it was the outburst here in the Australian Parliament that encouraged the presidential minders to establish their exclusion zone around your Chief Executive!

If it's true that Clinton and Gore restricted access to anti-abortion activists and got away with it, how is the Republican attempt at doing the same with anti-war activists any different?
Or is it a dual standard of reporting based on whether you are perceived as more liberal, i.e. Democrat, or less liberal, i.e. Republican?
Do left-leaning journalists tend to 'look the other way' if a Democrat oversteps the mark a little bit, while raising hell at similar Republican behaviour? I think we may need to be a bit more even-handed and consistent, if that's the case.
Just a thought.
???

Free Spirit · 2003-11-09 03:39:36

Australia's political climate has me somewhat confused. It seems to exist at both extremes. You have green representatives on one end and, from my impression, a very right wing Prime Minister. Howard and Bush seem very similiar politically, and Howard even motivated Kim Jong Il to threaten to point nukes at the Aussies, which causes me to ask, do Australians have a generally good opinion of Howard or is he likely going to face defeat at the hands of a more socialist candidate at the next elections?

Palomar · 2003-11-09 10:35:08

If it's true that Clinton and Gore restricted access to anti-abortion activists and got away with it, how is the Republican attempt at doing the same with anti-war activists any different?
Or is it a dual standard of reporting based on whether you are perceived as more liberal, i.e. Democrat, or less liberal, i.e. Republican?
Do left-leaning journalists tend to 'look the other way' if a Democrat oversteps the mark a little bit, while raising hell at similar Republican behaviour? I think we may need to be a bit more even-handed and consistent, if that's the case.
Just a thought.
???

*True, Shaun. I didn't know about the restricted access to the anti-abortionists (relative to Clinton/Gore) until Cobra Commander mentioned it.

I don't want to pander to a double standard, or be guilty of having one. I really do dislike Bush (big surprise!); but it wouldn't be fair to castigate him if similar examples can be found within other Administrations.

--Cindy

Josh Cryer · 2003-11-09 15:11:11

I think the difference between this and the anti-choice protestors is twofold, first, the health care facilities need to have access available, so protestors can't rightly crowd around and prevent people from coming in, so yeah, you gotta make sure that doesn't happen. Generally, protestors know this, and they peacefully assemble where their voice is seen and heard, so I can't see why this would be a problem except for the most rabid of people.

Secondly, a Presidential visit is much much different from an abortion clinic protest. Visits are planned way far in advance, and in every situation the 'dissentors' are put as far away as possible from the President. In many cases it just looks like some random gathering of people many blocks from an event. People often find it difficult to realize that the protestors are there because of the Presidential visit.

I've been to one of these 'gatherings' and I can tell you, it looks quite stupid, standing in a group of people no where near the actual event. At least anti-choice protestors are, you know, allowed to see the fucking facilities they're protesting over.

That's really the difference, here.

Oh, and I agree, the loonies that step up and start screaming are just rabid and stupid, it'd be way more interesting if all they did was take off their shirt or something, and peacefully and quietly displayed under-shirts with a message on it. Someone would notice. And if you were to 'remove' these people, you would find yourself getting a lot of undesired attention, and it would just get more notice than it initally would.

Gennaro · 2003-11-09 15:29:13

Even in cases where tyranny did suceed for a time, like Nazi Germany...there were people bravely fighting the system - even in the face of complete hopelessness.

- Byron, here's a slight snag. The Nazis came about through exactly one of those popular protest movements that you praise. No, my contempt for Dr Goebbels idea of free speech is no less than yours.

...not to mention the people of Mother Russia who had the foresight to burn everything in sight to prevent the Germans from taking over their country, even though that often meant sacrificing their own lives in the process.

- You seem to have a very rosy picture of the Soviet Union at war. Man... it wasn't the people of Mother Russia who "had the foresight" to burn their own villages. It was the NKVD and the party commissars. Those guys couldn't have cared less for the Russian people who starved or froze to death in scorched earth's wake. They were just as accustomed to shoot at the peasants as burning their villages. They had done so since 1918.
About a million ex-Soviet citizens, if I remember correctly, mostly recruited from prisoners of war, even volunteered to serve with the Axis against the Communist regime. Any guess why?

You see, the world thrives on protest....without it, civilization would unwind back to a time when people could beat up on other people just because they were bigger and stronger than they were. That's why when I see a protest on TV (like the ones in Europe...boy, they sure can put on some good ones!,) my heart goes out to them, even when I don't exactly agree with what they're protesting.

- Well, no... not automatically. Civilization thrives on respect for differing opinions and an open account of conflicting positions. Believing, in the role of Caesar, that you are bound to follow a certain opinion no matter what though (democracy), is another case all together.
Those European protestors that you embrace - and take it from me, because I'm European - are generally a most vile, tyrannically minded and dishonest bunch. They have no regard for anyone's opinion but their own and if you disagree with them, they'll do whatever they can to shut you up, flame you, blacken you, denying you a right to make your voice heard.
Most people in Europe dislike or even loathe the politically correct radical protestors for that very reason, but that's another thing you won't see on TV or read in the newspapers, because their leftist upper class moms and dads already work there and saturate the whole cultural and media sector.

Palomar · 2003-11-09 16:20:14

Those European protestors that you embrace - and take it from me, because I'm European - are generally the most tyrannically minded scum you may encounter. They have no regard for anyone's opinion but their own and if you disagree with them, they'll do whatever they can to shut you up, flame you, blacken you, denying you a right to make your voice heard.

*Hmmmmm. Sorry to learn this. I never assume I know the political climate of a nation or a region.

I've encountered quite a few Americans (online and otherwise) who seem to have this notion that Europeans are currently extremely tolerant, broad-minded, and more enlightened than their "dowdy, redneck cousins" on the other side of "the pond."

It's a mistake to make assumptions, in any regard about any group of people. A member of my "Age of Voltaire" list, a young gal from Brasil, routinely relates to me information they are getting regarding the U.S.A. down there. Some of it is spot-on, some is exaggeration.

With so much misinformation, genuine communication snafus, propoganda, "static" and the like...well, it's just best not to make assumptions.

Ironically, the types of people you describe are similar to groups of people you might find on the internet: Who claim to espouse freedom and liberty, etc...sure, for them and like-minded people. And they don't think twice about stomping viciously on even the slightest peep of disagreement.

Tolerance is rare in the human community, it seems.

--Cindy

Gennaro · 2003-11-09 16:44:34

Ironically, the types of people you describe are similar to groups of people you might find on the internet: Who claim to espouse freedom and liberty, etc...sure, for them and like-minded people. And they don't think twice about stomping viciously on even the slightest peep of disagreement.

Yes, this is what it comes down to. I know the situation is confusing for you over there to understand the way things are around here and vice versa, but a common trait is that these people are all filled with a sense of self-righteousness to the extent that because they are _the_ "good" by definition, it doesn't matter if they turn to violence since the enemy is "the evil" in itself. And indeed, they are always there to attack "racism", "defend democracy", "freedom", "animal rights" or English foxes or whatever. Actually, it's not the issues that matter. Perhaps I'm not pro corporate globalism either.
Essentially, it's the same thing that you madame, mean to imply that you now have in the white house.

In fact, you in the US must hold on to your citizen's right of free speech no matter what. We in Europe have long lost ours during the last couple of decades. In some other thread a person was shocked by having his post deleted in some other forum because of its contents. Ha! Try to criticize the senseless immigration policy in some major Swedish newspaper for example. They'll edit you out faster than you can say waldorf salad.

Josh Cryer · 2003-11-10 11:00:43

It's a sad fact. Protestors are uneducated. They do it for emotional reasons for the most part (this is not to say that their intentions are wrong or that what they are protesting is irrelevant, which is very important to consider, despite that it all hinges on the emotions of people). If only the educated protested we'd never have protests.

I was pretty annoyed while during the war protests journalists were going around "asking questions" and no one was able to give a straight answer why they were protesting. They were made to be fools just because they were too lazy to learn the facts before the war.

I can guarantee you that 90% of all the protestors during the major DC protests didn't even know that a large part of it was sponsered by International ANSWER (a pro-Stalinist regime). This just shows you how when someone shows up to a protest, it's usually because they don't "feel right" about something, not because they're smart, and really know what the hell they're talking about.

Gennaro, I would think that you have had your share of International ANSWER or WWP experiences. That sort of thing permeates Europe more so than the states (in fact, were it not for 9/11, international ANSWER would not even be known to people; their last 'American' get together only had a few thousand people; though ANSWER claimed there were hundreds of thousands, just like any good Stalinist-esque propaganda machine would). It's unfortunate.

Shaun Barrett · 2003-11-11 06:39:33

Free Spirit, Nov. 9th '03 :-

...and Howard even motivated Kim Jong Il to threaten to point nukes at the Aussies, which causes me to ask, do Australians have a generally good opinion of Howard or is he likely going to face defeat at the hands of a more socialist candidate at the next election?

I saw a North Korean spokesman on TV a few months ago and he seemed to be quite happy to threaten nuclear attacks against Australia, and against anyone else for that matter!
I've never seen such a display of infantile posturing from a representative of a modern nation state; it really was schoolyard bullying tactics and took me back to the kind of nonsense I'm sure most of us can remember happening when we were children.
I think, based on that eye-opening interview, it must be difficult to get on the right side of North Korea, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if Prime Minister Howard had said something (almost anything would do!) to upset such a dysfunctional regime.

As for Howard's prospects at the polls in twelve months time, that's a difficult call; even a week's a long time in politics.
Although he is presiding over one of the highest taxing governments in Australian history, and even though he is tinkering with the Medicare 'sacred cow' which most Aussies seem pretty much addicted to (something has to be done but many are loathe to accept the fact), he is still seen as easily the best option Australia has for a leader. The Australian Labor Party leader, and leader of the opposition, is consistently out-opinion-polled by scores like 60 to 15 by John Howard. This stems mainly from his handling of the economy and his image as being strong on security issues.
Interest rates here are at historical lows, unemployment is as low as it's been for something like 12 years, inflation is low, the economy is expanding between 3 and 4 percent per annum year after year after year, and the enormous government debt left by the previous Labor government has been gradually whittled down to almost nothing - another few years should clear it.
John Howard is an old campaigner and a wily one at that! His administration has made some mistakes, and God knows the letters pages in 'The Australian' (newspaper) are regularly filled with hate mail for John, but he manages to steer clear of disaster and keep delivering the goodies.

But who knows?!!
Voters blow hot and cold from moment to moment and anything is possible.

Thanks, Cindy, for your even-handed response to CC's revelation about anti-abortion activists. I know how much you disapprove of President Bush and I admire your ability to detach yourself from that position and analyse the situation dispassionately. Your typical sense of fairness, as always, is a credit to you.

Such a pity some of those raucous protesters don't take a leaf out of your book and try civilised behaviour for a change.

Free Spirit · 2003-11-14 01:08:23

Great message Shaun, I often wonder what's going on down under. North Korea cries foul every time Australia catches one of Kim Jong Il's drug smugglers (er I mean harasses its legitimate trading ships sneaking in during the night) trying to land cargo on it's beaches. Totalitarian and corrupt morons like the 'Dear Leader' Kim Jong Il give socialism a bad name. Half his nation is starving and all he cares about is maintaining his war machines and nukes. I think its crazy that a number of South Koreans adore Kim, I can understand their sentiments against capitalism and America's occupation, but defeating it by joining up with Kim is like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. But considering how Bush has been threatening the little despot up in the North, I can understand Kim's motivations to stay militarily ready.

If you want to see how heavy handed, totalitarian rhetoric works, visit the North Korean Central News Network

It's very unfortunate that many people fall into the trap of equating communism with the despotic rule of a lawless dictator. That's not true communism!

Gennaro · 2003-11-14 05:09:38

Gennaro, I would think that you have had your share of International ANSWER or WWP experiences. That sort of thing permeates Europe more so than the states

- Tell me about it. Well, as said, maybe I genuinly care for the environment too and maybe it's not necessarily anti-globalism in itself that I find so wierd. It's the peculiar form it takes and how it is expressed. 'Anti-capitalist' No Logo on the one hand, hatred for state and order and demands for "free immigration" on the other, or else you're a racist pig. And this in a country with the highest per capita immigration in Europe, of which less than than 20% are actually refugees, where the crime rate topples that of the United States and 'another gang rape' (read: racist tribalist occupational behaviour in order to degrade the indigeneous population and show who's superior) is one of the more common headlines. Like in old DDR, in Sweden you soon have to learn how to read between the lines. As for "free speech ZONES", the linguistic method is readily recognizable, the apparent form new speech, using an expression to mean quite the opposite.
I also resent the support from an intelligentia, that by and large out of fear or sympathy has buried its face in the ground, for this powerful leftist lobby.

(in fact, were it not for 9/11, international ANSWER would not even be known to people; their last 'American' get together only had a few thousand people; though ANSWER claimed there were hundreds of thousands, just like any good Stalinist-esque propaganda machine would). It's unfortunate.

- It's typical.

Free Spirit:

It's very unfortunate that many people fall into the trap of equating communism with the despotic rule of a lawless dictator. That's not true communism!

- You're right. Communism is a lot worse.

Christina · 2003-11-15 04:18:57

Free Spirit:
It's very unfortunate that many people fall into the trap of equating communism with the despotic rule of a lawless dictator. That's not true communism!
- You're right. Communism is a lot worse.

True communism is holding all material goods in common in a community for the benefit of all.

This generally only happens in communities whose primary motivation is not for material goods, but spiritual growth and the well being of others. Convents, monasteries and so on.

The rest of us can't quite get our heads around not actually having sole ownership of some object or other, so it fails.

Bill White · 2003-11-15 09:59:24

Free Spirit:
It's very unfortunate that many people fall into the trap of equating communism with the despotic rule of a lawless dictator. That's not true communism!
- You're right. Communism is a lot worse.
True communism is holding all material goods in common in a community for the benefit of all.
This generally only happens in communities whose primary motivation is not for material goods, but spiritual growth and the well being of others. Convents, monasteries and so on.
The rest of us can't quite get our heads around not actually having sole ownership of some object or other, so it fails.

Lenin/Stalin/Mao betrayed the teaching of Marx.

My view of Karl Marx can perhaps be summed up with a metaphor - - The practice of medicine can be divided into two categories, diagnosis and cure. These are very different aspects of a single problem, a sick patient.

IMHO, Marx does a pretty good job of explaining why unfettered capitalism causes so much suffering. His diagnosis is reasonably accurate, from the perspective of the 1840s.

Sadly, all of the cures that have been offered in his name have proven worse than the original disease.

Earthfirst · 2003-11-26 15:00:55

Free speech does that mean you can say anying you want, yes according to the flocks at the ACLU. You burn a flag, make up lies up the president, say foul words to grandmothers and childern. Ant freedom wonderful!
Wait you can do all that but according to the AClUers you cant prey, build idals Mars, no ten commandments in schools or crouthouses. Wait the sperume crout does all that two, they sure do know how to have a good time. But we cant
I remeber from school jews got there stars, islamic crazys got there sucide bombs well in plaistien, but I could not sacerface a lamb for Zeus, or Venus. Thats just plan intolernce, well at least the chirstens got wipe them selfs for having unholy thoghts about the cheerleaders, lucky them. I had to go on a quest to the end of the world to find the golden spear. "North Dakota" and fight the seven head beast in Bismark.
The hard part was that it had been decleared an endanger speices. So I had decoy some hippies with some brownies, and fish tickets. Any ways I killed the beast and saved America from Harrias taxes.
Oh wait I got that from Hericules
Any ways free spheech great I quess
If it make people raddle on and on about nothing
maybe it should have limits!

Cobra Commander · 2003-11-26 20:02:03

Earthfirst, I'm going to use my free speech to ask:

"What the hell are you blathering about?"

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-04 10:49:07

For the first time in a long time news media reports Black on Black crime? the Exodus from Commiefornia taxes and politic, the BigTech moving to other US States, it is sad to see Hollweird finally die

Will future from Mars have free art and free thinking music and art and strong culture as an export. I think Hollywood has been dying for a time, it dies off with Indie film makers no longer allowed take risk, it dies off with the mega blockbuster dominance over the smaller more creative pictures, it dies with the Weinstein type rape scandals and Kevin Spacey weirdo gossip, the trashy nature of Tarantino, its dying with the Corona virus and people freaked out with Corona lockdowns, it dies off with the endless remakes, how many times can you re-imagine and re-launch and remake a franchise? These two guys that caused a scene on stage are actors, so there might be something somewhat contrived or slightly staged about the event, however if you watch the movement it seems he really connected, he landed a real hit. The Oscars is a broken family, everyone diseased and dying in a broken marriage, the meaningless used to be hidden behind spectacle and a show of class, now its a show of physical assault and swearing. So it seems some boring show we no longer really care about has lost its seduction and glamour, an Empty violent perverted Emperor exposed and as a show it has become a haunting echo of its former self that lost its class. The glamour the Haute couture, the glitz and cameras added to its 'show', the je-ne-sais-quoi, the lighting and audio engineering tricks added to the ceremony and institution and arty politics and show but now the cultural reality is fall apart starting to slowly collapse, how long before it goes full Antifa, Wakanda and BLM or Marxism?

I have made it no secret here I am giving up on mainstream Hollywood, I will watch some US indie films, I now watch a lot of overseas stuff. Maybe I feel culturally things are dying in the West, some parts of Europe might still have ok film, some say Asian films have become great, although they can be accused of being 'nationalist' also.

As Caliban once replied in the film/art music thread.

Calliban wrote:

The Japanese and South Koreans aren't interested in Woke Cultural Marxism.

Will there be a future of People making Art on Mars, can they have the Right to give offense to others just like those laws protect speech with the 1st Amendment to the United States Constitution, to take offense and to hear offensive stuff. Many times we have seen debates on a future of Mars, First Amendment Rights for a Mars person to have a gun or some type of Arms has been debated here.

From February 2022, March 2022, April we now see humanity and its place on Earth in its current state, Wars and Invasions, thousands dead, millions of refugees on the move, might always be a violent place.

The Free Speech Debate has come and gone many times here.

'Free Speech on Mars - Theme of BCML Corp. Time Capsule 2006'
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=133

What if some comedian tells a bad joke, and you find it offensive. Are you allowed run upon stage and uppercut them or drop kick them?
https://abc7.com/laugh-factory-will-smi … /11689991/

I know people who have died of cancer and I still found the joke funny. Why? I don't know why its funny, I guess thats the art of comedy, its subjective perhaps or maybe because it is known this woman behaves like a hag and her having cancer does not make her some holier-than-thou creature that is free from mockery. This bald woman has been a GI Jane jackass to Will Smith, seems a special type of selfish, manipulative, cold, she even has cheated on Will Smith in front of him, Will Smith himself laughed at the jokes maybe until she herself gave him some devil witch eye stare and told him to smack up some comedian who was giving her 'disrespecks' she is what urban dictionary calls ball-breaker or she is a 'ball buster' https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. … l%20buster

America once had such freedoms

Now we have Black on Black cancel culture assault Crime at one of their highest film and arts award ceremony, now Emirates plans an islamic flagged Moon Mission launched by Falcon 9 Block 5

but in a future on Mars could, with idiots from Japan, California, SpaceX, Colorado exporting this islamism to Mars, sending more islam to the Moon and space, could perhaps one day someone on Mars maybe even threaten another because someone offended their Moongod al-Lah?

I understand why people find the jokes offensive
but is zealotry to defend some rich bald spoiled hag the answer?

Hollyweird finally dying might be a good thing for America
it will perhaps add to the creative industry again, a new age of smaller indie film makers might begin once again?

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-04-04 11:09:27)

Calliban · 2022-04-05 00:36:45

Elon Musk becomes the largest share holder of twitter. Musk purchased 9% of Twitter shares.
https://www.space.com/elon-musk-twitter … hareholder

Musk does seem to advocate free speech. This would appear to be a positive move.

Calliban · 2022-04-05 00:48:33

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

I know people who have died of cancer and I still found the joke funny. Why? I don't know why its funny, I guess thats the art of comedy, its subjective perhaps or maybe because it is known this woman behaves like a hag and her having cancer does not make her some holier-than-thou creature that is free from mockery. This bald woman has been a GI Jane jackass to Will Smith, seems a special type of selfish, manipulative, cold, she even has cheated on Will Smith in front of him, Will Smith himself laughed at the jokes maybe until she herself gave him some devil witch eye stare and told him to smack up some comedian who was giving her 'disrespecks' she is what urban dictionary calls ball-breaker or she is a 'ball buster' https://www.urbandictionary.com/define. … l%20buster
America once had such freedoms
Now we have Black on Black cancel culture assault Crime at one of their highest film and arts award ceremony, now Emirates plans an islamic flagged Moon Mission launched by Falcon 9 Block 5

The comedian was insensitive and the joke was in poor taste. But there seems to be a cultural attitude floating around these days that violence is justified and even glorified, if 'the MF was disrespectin' me'. It could have been worse though. Will Smith could have 'popped a cap in his arse'. At least that didn't happen. It isn't very helpful to black youths to see their role models behave in this way. These people already have a problem with the glorification of violence. The public display of this sort of behaviour reinforces that attitude.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-04-05 01:02:20)

Calliban · 2022-04-05 18:22:41

Go Elon! There is something very satisfying about the whinging of oppressive control freaks when they are about to lose their ability to oppress and silence other people. I cannot help but like Elon Musk.
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/lib … tter-board

Void · 2022-04-06 14:49:55

Daddy's home!

Maybe he can help them figure out if they have inboard or outboard motors. Poor things, many of them seem confused on the subject.

Daddy Dancing Now!

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/worldnews … sla-china/

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-04-06 14:51:22)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-10 06:21:06

Maher: I Hope Musk Fixes ‘Indoctrination’ of Tech Censoring Things Like Lab Leak Theory
https://rumble.com/v10e1l0-maher-i-hope … ab-le.html

Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg Goes On Media Apology Tour Amid Data Scandal
https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/face … ca-scandal

Banned From Twitter, Trump Says He Prefers Press Releases to Character-Limited Tweets: ‘It’s Far More Elegant’
https://www.mediaite.com/politics/banne … e-elegant/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-04-13 08:55:20

What day did nu-Left decide to become the same NeoCon Establishment?

German wants the Letter 'Z' banned

Many are dying innocents killed, millions of refugees yet some only ask who will profit from the rebuilding of Ukraine?

'Elon Musk’s vision for the internet is dangerous nonsense'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … et-twitter

The French government condemns the suspension of France24 and RFI in Mali
https://www.infobae.com/en/2022/03/17/t … in-mali-2/

California liberals and Florida conservatives find a common cause: Censoring school speech
https://www.sacbee.com/opinion/op-ed/ar … 48735.html

Mike Pence says UVA swimmer was cheated out of NCAA victory by transgender Lia Thomas
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl … homas.html

The Trudeau government has plans to license journalism .
https://www.rebelnews.com/the_trudeau_g … s_not_good

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-04-13 08:58:12)

Calliban · 2022-04-13 09:22:10

Mars_B4_Moon wrote:

'Elon Musk’s vision for the internet is dangerous nonsense'
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … et-twitter

The stench of fear that hangs around this article, is the perfume of liberty. It is written by Robert Reich; an American Jew, who was heavily involved in the US civil rights movement. This was basically a project hatched by him and his buddies, to undermine the then predominantly white America. He is a vandal and a destroyer of nations. He is worried that a Musk controlled Twitter might allow freedom of speech. People like him do not like freedom of speech, because they are up to no good and do not want the proles, plebs or goyim openly sharing information. He knows that if the truth is shared without restraint, the white majority might realise that his pet projects are not in their interests. They might even turn against him and his people. Freedom of speech is necessary, precisely to keep scoundrels like Reich in line.

Last edited by Calliban (2022-04-13 09:24:27)

kbd512 · 2022-04-13 14:31:07

Calliban,

Tell me what significance Robert Reich's religion has, as to whether or not he supports or rejects freedom of speech. Even if Reich is a scoundrel, I don't see what his choice of religion has to do with it. Ben Shapiro also happens to be Jewish, yet he vociferously advocates for freedom of speech. I don't think simply being Jewish, or having any particular skin color, affects one's support or lack of support for freedom of speech. It's more likely that people who think that their own ideas are superior to all others, tend to think that other people who denounce their ideas on lack of merit, shouldn't have freedom of speech.

Most of the white majority and the black minority both know that the race-baiters of this world like to try to use skin color to divide Americans. Apart from a tiny minority of hate-filled extremists, their messaging has largely fallen on deaf ears.

Who are "Reich's people"?

That ragtag band of wannabe communists and anarchists who start "movements" (CHOP / CHAZ) that fall to pieces a week to a month after they start?

For a brief period of time, I think our government was humoring those morons, just to see if their "communist country within a capitalist country" could work. I think it was sheer morbid curiosity about what they would actually do. Both the federal and state government allowed them to remain there until it was obvious that people were being raped and murdered and nothing was being done about it. They had their chance to govern and to put their ideas into practice, but it failed miserably faster than even I thought it would. I thought it might last at least a few months to a year, but it was done and over with faster than the first war in Iraq. Even with people donating things, they still couldn't make it work.

All of these anti-First Amendment people have one thing in common- they all believe themselves to be far more competent than they actually are. Leftists think that because they have some kind of belief about something, that reality must automagically line up with their beliefs. When reality simply works the way it works, oblivious to their belief system, sparks fly and people needlessly die.

I think what Reich misses is that Musk is one of the few people who doesn't think that his ideas are the only ideas that could possibly work. That is the greatest difference between Reich and Musk. Musk is a pragmatic engineer who wants things to actually work, irrespective of whether or not the end result was precisely what he envisioned. Reich is a sophomoric ideologue who doesn't have to live with the results of implementing his ideas. That's a huge dichotomy when it comes to governance, and why Musk runs wildly successful businesses while Reich makes films and writes opinion pieces about people he's probably never met.

Reich has never actually built anything. He thinks he knows how money should be distributed and spent, but he's never run a business that makes a tangible good or service that people need or want. For example, Musk created a business that makes software for electronic exchange of funds for goods and services, a business that makes electric cars and trucks, a business that makes rockets cheaper than anyone else on the planet can make them, a business that bores tunnels to ease traffic congestion, a business that makes AI software and super computers to reduce motor vehicle accidents and solve other complex computer control problems.

Reich was a lawyer, university professor, film maker, and also served as labor secretary. Reich has absolutely zero practical experience in business. None. He's made a career doing many other things, but he's utterly clueless about running a business that makes something that people actually want to own and use.

Here's a better question to ask yourself (one that doesn't reduce to petty immutable physical characteristics):

Why is it that people with no actual experience doing something, think they can simply peer over the window of the factory and have any slight clue about what it took to make that factory run?

Reich's musing would be exactly like me giving advice to a cardiac surgeon about how to perform open-heart surgery.

What makes so many of these academics, however well- or ill-intentioned, think they can do what they've never done before, better than the people who have spent their entire lives doing something?

That's the question that eats at my mind.

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