Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

kbd512 · 2022-08-28 00:02:10

Is there some reason why we cannot use vertical tunnel boring, case the shaft the way we do with oil wells, and then put an anchored dome on top?

Mix a finely powdered regolith with water, let it freeze solid, which may take a couple of days at most, and that will be an acceptable substitute for concrete if the walls of the tunnel shaft are well-insulated. RobertDyck said there are places in Canada and Siberia that are permafrost down hundreds of feet, despite the fact that Earth is much warmer than Mars. Mars is an ice cube. There's no telling how far down the permafrost extends, but it could be a mile or more. At a depth of a couple hundred feet at most, maybe as little as 75 feet for sake of practicality, these "ice concrete missile silos" could provide pressurized space without consuming too much steel or glass, while providing natural sunlight via the dome on top. We could do some sort of double-pane construction for the skylight to assure that an accident doesn't depressurize the entire building.

Void · 2022-08-28 08:30:01

I think that your questions contained within your post can have many answers kbd512.

If you don't mind, I would like to offer one also.

First, this reference: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.10 … -5418-2_38
Quote:

Permafrost exists at all latitudes on Mars and subsurface ice probably is abundant. The temperatures and pressures characteristic of each location or region determine, to a large extent, the depth and distribution of permafrost. Together with ground water salinity, they control the ice content, strength and deformation characteristics, in addition to other physical and electrical properties of local permafrost. Calculations based on the Viking Mission Data indicate that permafrost thicknesses range from about 3.5 km at the equator to approximately 8 km in the polar regions. The depths to the bottom of Martian permafrost are more than three times the depth characteristic of permafrost in terrestrial polar locations.

(2.17479917 miles to 4.97096954 miles)

There is a good chance that lots of ice is included, and then also likely icy frozen mud, but as well there can be largely dry permafrost.

It has deeply buried fossil ice caps: https://news.agu.org/press-release/mult … %20authors.

WASHINGTON—Scientists have discovered remnants of ancient ice sheets buried in sand a mile beneath Mars’s north pole, they report in a new study. The findings show conclusive evidence of the waxing and waning of polar ice on the red planet due to changes in its orbit and tilt, according to the study’s authors.

But where the Insight lander is the near subsurface apparently is dry and was never well cemented. It is cold enough for ice and may have some brine and ice pockets, but basically is dry permafrost :https://skyandtelescope.org/astronomy-news/nasas-insight-lander-finds-tropical-mars-is-dry/#:~:text=The%20area%20where%20InSight%20landed%20is%20dominated%20by,cement%20to%20glue%20the%20grains%20together%2C%E2%80%9D%20says%20Wright.

The group found no evidence of water or ice in the sedimentary layers, down to 300 meters (1,000 feet) beneath the lander. The cracks among the fractured basalts make up less than 40% of the volume, and those cracks are largely filled with air — they contain less than 20% ice and less than 2% calcite cement.

We can expect that the higher latitude you go the ticker the amount of ice is likely to be.

The near Equator though does seem to include wet/icy areas: https://scifi.radio/2021/12/20/esa-disc … a%2C%20USA.
Quote:

“In the Valles Marineris canyon system: assuming the hydrogen we see is bound into water molecules, as much as 40% of the near-surface material in this region appears to be water.” Valles Marineris is the Martian Grand Canyon, larger than Earth’s Grand Canyon in Arizona, USA. That makes for a body of Martian water that’s roughly the size of a small ocean.

This could be an ice slab like the ones in the higher latitudes, or it may be possible that it is an accumulation of brine fed from artesian springs coming up the fractures. If so, then it would be a very cold "Wet" permafrost.

Or there may be some other way that signal is there. Since it is more ambiguous as to its nature, for now I will presume it is at least in part a buried ice slab.

And then we have this which I have often cited: https://www.space.com/30502-mars-giant- … y-mro.html

A giant slab of ice as big as California and Texas combined lurks just beneath the surface of Mars between its equator and north pole, researchers say.
This ice may be the result of snowfall tens of millions of years ago on Mars, scientists added.

No certainty has been witnessed by me of the origination or the full nature of these deposits.

But here is this bit of estimation/Measurement:

The ice the scientists found measures 130 feet (40 m) thick and lies just beneath the dirt, or regolith, or Mars.
"It extends down to latitudes of 38 degrees. This would be like someone in Kansas digging in their backyard and finding ice as thick as a 13-story building that covers an area the size of Texas and California combined," Bramson said.

Now about your proposal, may I make a counter proposal? (I will )

Let's take that dome, and it would be of a flex plastic. It would need to be rather large, perhaps 200-300 feet in circumference? Different it you are doing a trench and not a funnel. (I will explain).

Historically it has been proposed to Burie the edges of such a "Dome" with local regolith, which would allow some isolation of the interior from the exterior per pressure and moisture.

Having done this, we can expect to heat the insides a bit, perhaps from natural sunlight or we could apply heat additionally from a thermal source of some kind.

We can expect the center to heat the most, probably. We may want to take measures such as reflective insulation to inhibit heating the regolith around the edges of the dome.

We might employ a dehumidifier to capture the resulting moisture on the insides of this bubble, but also it may be that the day night fulgurations will transfer moisture from the soil to the dome at nighttime, and then that may melt or evaporate in the daytime. It would depend on the pressure inside. I would think that adding a little more pressure would allow water melt, and that to then flow down the inside of the come where it could be collected.

This is then going to create an evolving sinkhole. It would then be desired to manage that sinkhole by adding more regolith to the edges and packing it, forming a funnel shape.

We are going to try to transition from icy permafrost to a packed adobe-like material.
The reason I think that this is possible is the notions in this article: https://www.industrytap.com/martian-soi … ngredients. Quote:

They discovered that Mars soil can be compressed into bricks stronger than even steel-reinforced concrete. Scientists found the way Martian soil reacts to being put under pressure, and one can craft bricks from the soil with the pressure equivalent of a hammer blow, without the need for ovens or any extra ingredients.

It may even be possible to have Photo-Organisms in this environment as it may be warm enough at least during the days, and also moist. So, it may be possible to put this enclosure to some type of productivity of Oxygen and even biomass.

The amount of compressed "Berm" (The funnel depression" that exists and the interior temperature will determine if this "Funnel" will stabilize. It is very possible that although the days are warm inside, the nights would be cold. The thermal balance may actually be below freezing on average, even near the surface of the funnel.

But it may be that the transition of packed "Adobe" at a nominal incline of say 45 degrees, to the very icy permafrost under the edges of the dome, will be suitable to allow the surface of the interior to average above freezing.

To help facilitate this, the perimeter outside of the dome could have a reflective surface applied, making it into more of a radiator. Not absorbing much heat from the sun during the day and radiating during the night. This is then intended to help stabilize the ice under the edges of the dome.

Now, if you wish you may put habitat modules inside, and cover them with regolith, or have them set inside, and put procurable water bags on top of them. Those of course could allow for the growth of plants, a sort of farming.

If you were to make a long ditch, then of course you would have a long dome.

In if no more of these were built then some method to get more water into them would be needed. Not a huge problem. But if you kept expanding, then that would be your source of "Makeup Water".

If desired, perhaps some better dome that could hold higher pressure could replace the original dome used to form the crafted sink hole.

I think this is not the worst thing I have proposed. Maybe it can be modified by others, or later even me perhaps.

Done.

Oh! I forgot Urea Bricks: https://www.inverse.com/science/mars-ci … %28IISc%29

An ideal funnel would reach down to bedrock, and you could make habitations our of bricks, and then cover them either with regolith or bags of water.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2022-08-28 09:31:39)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-13 06:15:43

Bringing performance and durability to a challenging period project
https://www.bdonline.co.uk/buildings-de … 51.article

Musk published a paper in June 2017 on making humanity a multiplanetary species, laying out plans for having as many as 1 million people on Mars.
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10. … .29009.emu

Musk
https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1329102718988922883
'Life in glass domes at first. Eventually, terraformed to support life, like Earth.'

"Vertical garden city" becomes Japan's tallest residential skyscraper
https://newatlas.com/architecture/toran … kyscraper/

Rights to rebuild Nakagin Capsule Tower for sale
https://www.dezeen.com/2022/08/16/nakag … d-auction/
The Nakagin Capsule Tower in Tokyo could soon be replicated in both real space and the metaverse, as its original architect Kisho Kurokawa's studio is auctioning the rights to rebuild it.

In the footsteps of the Buddha
https://www.bangkokpost.com/travel/2386 … the-buddha
Ayutthaya played a significant role in the preservation and spread of the Buddhist faith

The movie Notre-Dame on Fire
https://www.radiotimes.com/movie-guide/ … e-on-fire/
Drama

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-13 06:33:28)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-04-13 12:31:19

I think it could be Art cultural or religious or political types who push to build such structure.

10 Contemporary Buildings Inspired by the Egyptian Pyramid Typology
https://www.archdaily.com/982205/10-con … d-typology

Hidden roof is a type of Japanese roof construction, the Pyatthat a multi-tiered and spired roof commonly found in Burmese royal and Buddhist architecture. The nine-tiered pyatthat was reserved solely for the kingdom's sovereign, while the sawbwas of important tributary states were entitled to seven-tiered pyatthats. In Japan origin the hidden roof were necessary to support the roof above, however at the end of the 10th century the invention of the hidden roof, which had its own hidden supporting structure, made them superfluous. They remained in use, albeit in a purely decorative role, assuming a variety of forms, and are typical of the Wayo style
https://archive.org/details/burmaunderbritis01nisb
,
http://www.aisf.or.jp/%7Ejaanus/deta/n/nakazonae.htm

Why do Russian churches have onion-shaped domes?
https://www.rbth.com/arts/333139-russia … nion-domes

arly Christian basilicas and ancient Roman temples often had one huge dome in the shape of a hemisphere. Russian churches, however, could be crowned with a various number of domes that came in different shapes.

Tented roof also known as a pavilion roof is a type of polygonal hipped roof with steeply pitched slopes rising to a peak. Tented roofs, a hallmark of medieval religious architecture. Saint Barbara's Church a Roman Catholic church i in the style of a cathedral, and is sometimes referred to as the Cathedral of St Barbaraone of the most famous Gothic churches in central Europe and it is a UNESCO world heritage site. St Barbara is the patron saint of miners among others, highly appropriate for a town whose wealth was based entirely upon its silver mines.
https://khfarnost.cz/en/st-barbaras-cathedral/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-04-13 12:32:13)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-04-13 12:35:02

Iceland’s extraordinary, futuristic churches
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/201 … c-churches

The unique, modernist masterpieces that reflect mythology, nature and the country’s turbulent history.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-10-26 15:43:08

I am no fan of mass organized religions, the exploitation and brain washing within

but maybe you have to respect the art of these buildings

A Record-Breaking Hindu Temple Opens After Years of Controversy
https://www.architecturaldigest.com/sto … ontroversy
Located in New Jersey, this place of worship was constructed with more than 1.9 million cubic feet of rare and decorative minerals sourced from around the globe

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-01 12:55:13

On the very top of a building might be a self powered rotating lighthouse beacon that provides a guide just in case of failure during an electric blackout or dust storm.

Some more construction and design videos on Earth that might inspire Mars?

the first cultures which might arrive on Mars could change some of the companies or nations which first support Mars colonizatiuon could vanish leaving behind their own Apex designs and cultural structures on Mars.

On Earth

The Tower, Luna Park - Coney Island State: New York (NY)
https://www.cardcow.com/35255/tower-lun … -new-york/

Luna Park is a name shared by dozens of currently operating and defunct amusement parks. They are named after, and partly based on, the first Luna Park, which opened in 1903 during the heyday of large Coney Island parks. Luna Park Sydney is a heritage-listed amusement park located in the harbourside suburb of Milsons Point, New South Wales, Australia, the country of Argentina has a Luna Park a multi-purpose arena in Buenos Aires, Luna Park was also an amusement park in Paris, France, Osaka's Luna Park also known as Shinsekai Luna Park was Japan's second amusement park of the same name, replacing the destroyed Luna Park in Tokyo the original Tokyo Luna Park was incinerated under suspicious circumstances.

The Pantheon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aDhzQMIGCY

Wat Arun, also known as the Temple of Dawn, was built in memory of Taksin, who was the 41st king and national hero of Thailand. It is recognized as one of the most iconic and beautiful temples in Thailand.
https://www.asiahighlights.com/thailand … k/wat-arun

Maya civilization a Mesoamerican civilization

'Tikal: The Mayan City of the Jaguar God'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77TFgWlpoc8

Before the Spanish and other Europeans arrived on ships there was a partial collapse, a widespread political unrest and power decline in the central Maya region, resulting in civil wars, the abandonment of cities, and a north shift of populations.

Tam Chuc Pagoda in Vietnam
https://en.didulich.net/Culture/tam-chu … tnam-20251

Exploring Wat Traimit, Temple of the Golden Buddha
https://www.feastographyblog.com/blog/wat-traimit

Apex Department Store Building. The Great Pyramid of Rhode Island | Apex Building
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4YjCe4bzSw

'Contest of the cathedrals – the Gothic period'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eGWHxbTSO8

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-11-01 13:52:50)

Calliban · 2023-11-01 13:28:55

Regarding leaks through cracks in brick structures. I think it unlikely that this will present a problem through berms that are metres thick.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth_seal

The compressive forces imparted by the weight of overburden will tend to close cracks. The fluid friction through very small cracks will reduce leakage rates, especially if edges are jagged.

Calliban · 2023-11-17 14:10:28

This building technique has previously been highlighted as suitable for the Martian surface.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthbag_construction

I estimate that these plastic rubble sacks weigh about 1kg each and can contain up 100 litres (250kg) of Martian regolith.
https://www.diy.com/departments/rubble- … 584_BQ.prd

For early base development these could be made on Mars from polyethylene a filled with filtered regolith. Usually, barbed wire is used to tie layers together. But spikes are sometimes used to pin one layer to another. Such bags could be be built up in layers, building parabolic domes and vaults. Prior to pressurisation, the entire structure would be covered with several metres of regolith to provide sufficient overburden to counteract internal pressure. Plaster can then be applied to the interior and painted, producing an airtight finish.

Last edited by Calliban (2023-11-17 14:22:36)

Calliban · 2023-11-17 17:02:22

These egg shaped structures are made entirely from rammed earth.
https://www.core77.com/posts/105152/Pre … Dome-Homes

On Mars, we could use a similar technique to build habitable volumes quickly. We inflate a flexible egg shape structure made from a tough polymer to a pressure of several bar. We place another steel mold over the top of it, with a hole in the top. We then pour fine regolith into the space between the inner inflatable and outer steel shell. We ram the regolith down with a pressure of several bar until it is hard and compact. We then deflate the inner structure and remove the outer steel shell. What we are left with is a rammed regolith cone shaped structure. This can be made in minutes. We build hundreds of cones in a hexagonal arrangement, with their walls almost touching. Arch forming shapes are placed between the inner and outer mold sections before casting. This allows access between any cone and its six surrounding cones. We build arches in the narrow caps between the arched doorways of each cone and tge neighbouring doorways. Next, we cover the whole field of cones in a layer of regolith several metres deep. Cones at the edges will need tunnels leading to airlocks.

tahanson43206 · 2023-11-17 18:44:55

For Calliban re #35

Thank you for finding and posting this more recent work by Nadir Khalili

Elsewhere in the forum archive there are posts about this famous gentleman, who has published books about the long history of dome construction in Iran, and the ways in which air is conducted through these structures to cool or heat them as needed.

Apache Internal Server Error disapproves of the rest of this post.

(th)

tahanson43206 wrote:

This is part of a post that was refused by Apache Internal Server Error..l.
The book was first published in 1986, and it was in the 8th printing when I picked up my copy in 2008.
I am delighted to see that Khalili is continuing to develop his ideas, and what is more important, to find willing hands to turn them into reality.
I have no doubt that the Iranian tradition would translate easily to Mars. with the needed adaptations due to obvious differences.
(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-12-13 09:17:15

Massive 'lighthouses' on the moon could light the way for future lunar astronauts
https://www.space.com/moon-lighthouse-t … e-robotics
Honeybee Robotics has a plan to build massive lighthouses on the moon to provide light, power and communications infrastructure as part of a plan to develop a lunar economy

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-04-07 12:26:58

Some say the old ancient structures on Earth were broadcasting symbolism, stood as a symbol of power, wealth, and unity.

Why Did all Civilizations build Pyramid-shaped Buildings?: The Anthropological Perspective
https://www.thearchaeologist.org/blog/w … erspective

The Great Pyramid of Manhattan
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar … an/389576/
A new kind of high-rise on the West Side

Triangles
https://geometryandarchitecture.weebly. … ngles.html

how Does knowing the concepts about triangles be used and applied to architecture?

A key concept in architecture is the use of triangles. Triangles are known as the sturdiest figure in the architecture world. Architects commonly use these shapes to construct their buildings. The inequalities help prove that the shape is actually valid and can be build without causing problems. The triangles are used in the examples below:

Triangle Building
http://minimalisthomedezine.blogspot.co … lding.html

Architectural Drawings: 8 Triangular Projects That Embrace Their Awkward Sites
https://architizer.com/blog/inspiration … ngle-site/

a London property obsession

Derelict site on London’s Billionaire’s Row ‘has space for 300 homes’
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 … -blueprint

Award-winning architects draw up blueprint for affordable homes on Bishops Avenue site known for its array of abandoned mansions

Inside A Lavish $70 Million Villa on Hong Kong's Victoria Peak
https://www.forbes.com/video/6346554468 … oria-peak/

This Is Where the Philippines' Richest Families Live
https://www.esquiremag.ph/money/wealth/ … 10525-lfrm
Here are the most expensive zip codes in the Philippines.

from 2013

Yes, Paris Is Wealthy, But Some Parts Are Much Wealthier Than Others
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles … han-others
A series of maps reveals the subtlety of central Parisian economic geography.

but recently in France an increase in crimes and poverty

in NYC

In recent times some bad news and
People complained about homeless and crime in the big city

and not exactly an Apex shape more like a skyscraper shape for Mars

that guy who claimed to be a prince sending you Nigerian scam emails got rich?

A full-floor penthouse in the landmark One57 condo building is headed to the auction block after it was seized under foreclosure
https://www.businessinsider.com/foreclo … row-2017-6

One57 penthouse sold in NYC's biggest foreclosure auction
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oxsXY6PSXg

Jean Nouvel Predicts 53 West 53rd Will Transform New York City's Iconic Skyline
https://www.archdaily.com/tag/53-west-53rd-street

Wealth moved South into Florida?

House approves renaming A1A as ‘Jimmy Buffett Memorial Highway’
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/65 … l-highway/

another State, new land of riches and gold rushes

California’s Highway 1 road conditions will only get riskier, experts say
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 … s-problems
'Chunk of famed route crumbled into sea causing another closure, and conditions are expected to only worsen with climate crisis'

Historically in every city there were the wealthy, they cashed an IOU, collected antiques or owned gold coins, there was a Millionaire row, then as decades move on property bought and constructed along Billionaires' Rows, similar stories in New York, London, Paris, Tokyo, Rome, Chicago, San Francisco at one time British money, Rome and Mafia, then Jewish Israeli then Japan and Saudi and others...you could see the cash move new people coming into the town and city, some old names remain and some faces changing during recession and then new people as a city tries to sell itself. 111 West 57th Street a building Completed 2022 contains 60 luxury condominiums: 14 in Steinway Hall and 46 in the tower, 2022, a slab of ice was suspected to have fallen from 111 West 57th Street, damaging a car on the ground and injuring its drive but it has a residential tower has a glass facade with piers made of terracotta.

'Why This Billionaire's Row NYC Apartment Is Valued At $28.7m'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkhG2yLpieE

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-04-07 12:58:03)

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#26 2022-08-28 00:02:10

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#27 2022-08-28 08:30:01

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#28 2022-09-13 06:15:43

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#29 2023-04-13 12:31:19

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#30 2023-04-13 12:35:02

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#31 2023-10-26 15:43:08

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#32 2023-11-01 12:55:13

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#33 2023-11-01 13:28:55

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#34 2023-11-17 14:10:28

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#35 2023-11-17 17:02:22

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#36 2023-11-17 18:44:55

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#37 2023-12-13 09:17:15

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

#38 2024-04-07 12:26:58

Re: Apex structures for mid-latitude locations on Mars.

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