Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

Void · 2023-10-30 09:54:51

I think that this disserves it's own topic.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst … r-AA1j67oO Quote:

4,000 Feet Below the Surface, a Massive Store of Hydrogen Could Spark the Green Energy Revolution
Story by Adam Kovac •
41m

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_hydrogen
Quote:

Natural hydrogen
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From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen), is naturally occurring[1] molecular hydrogen on or in Earth[2] (as opposed to hydrogen produced in the laboratory or in industry). The name white hydrogen distinguishes it from green hydrogen, which is produced from renewable energy sources from the electrolysis of water, and from grey, brown or black hydrogen, which is obtained from fossil sources.[3] Natural hydrogen may be renewable, non-polluting and allows for lower cost operation compared to industrial hydrogen.[4] Natural hydrogen has been identified in many source rocks in areas beyond the sedimentary basins where oil companies typically operate.[5][6]

So for this what is needed is for water to get down to iron deep underground. Rifts might do: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midcontinent_Rift_System
Image Quote:
Quote:

Geological map of North America showing the Midcontinent Rift in white, here labeled Keweenawan Rift. Lake Superior now occupies the apex of the rift; the section to its north marked "SUPERIOR" is the Superior Craton

So, I am hoping that the area what is white will have Natural Hydrogen. Nothing if proven though.

I would anticipate resistance from established powers though to the development of such, so it may be needed that places like France and Australia would make it work first.

Our current government just now seems to be desperately trying to get back to the 70's. This is one reason to fear life extension. Rather than adapt these types will seek to modify society to a form they previously prospered in, but it is likely not attainable, and will not work as well for them as it previously did.

The 70's sort of were very stinky as I see it. Only some of the few made out good, making deals with foreign peoples against the interests of Americans as a whole.

But I have seen that they seem to have superpowers to warp reality in the wrong directions. Too bad really. They are wasting all of our lives on stupidity.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-10-30 10:12:59)

tahanson43206 · 2023-10-30 11:56:06

For Void as we begin this new topic ...

You need a first reply, and I thought that on this occasion, it would be interesting to see if anyone had created a topic with the word "hydrogen" in the title ... it turns out there are a surprising number, including several you created.

As a reminder, you can go back and revise a topic title to suit your needs ... Just edit Post #1, and you'll have access to the title.

Apache Server Error decided I don't get to list the topics that contain the word "hydrogen"

Apache Server Error relented when I removed everything but the contributor Usernames...

Topics that contain the word "hydrogen"

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Void
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tahanson43206
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Void
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tahanson43206
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by tahanson43206
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tahanson43206
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Tom Kalbfus
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tahanson43206
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tahanson43206
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SpaceNut
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RGClark
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louis
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Void
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doctordirt
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doctordirt
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Dook
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Tom Kalbfus
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Tom Kalbfus
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Void

(th)

Void · 2023-10-30 13:48:10

(th), thanks for the attention.

Since I may have repeated myself, then will you give assistance? I searched for previous entries. I know I did do some on "Natural Hydrogen", but my searching did not reveal. them.

Other phrases are "White" Hydrogen, but some are sensitive to the other uses of words signifying color. You see it has some pitfalls.

I can fight my way out of wet paper bag impediments but would rather avoid it.

Natural Hydrogen is very distinct from Hydrogen that has to be created from another energy source.

I do not identify a malice from you in this matter but will warn that high and powerful moneyed people who wish to impede the possible joy that this could give to the American and human populations will not get much sympathy from me.

I will hope not to find you in their ranks.

The reconditioning of various populations of peoples identified in various ways is mandated as far as I can see. To not be an adult and face ones need to improve is a problem for teachers. It is to make us all better all the time. Trust me, I have been given teachings.

And so, you see, I think we may have a way past disaster, and I do not like impediments to the discussion of chances of that.

But I crave your presumed offer of assistance to make this more correct (th).

Please help.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-10-30 13:55:27)

Calliban · 2023-10-30 16:03:00

This is interesting.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole

The deepest borehole ever drilled. Mud at its bottom was bubbling with hydrogen. The Earth's mantle is 9% Iron(II) oxide. Under extreme conditions:

2FeO + H2O = Fe2O3 + H2

This process is usually helped along by lithotroph bacteria, which use this reaction as an energy source. These bacteria have been around for billions of years, so we could find a lot of this hydrogen if we drill deep enough.

See also:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentinization

Last edited by Calliban (2023-10-30 16:26:29)

kbd512 · 2023-10-30 18:24:46

Calliban,

If we drilled a deep bore well on Mars where Iron Oxide and H2O are present, might we either expect to find similar bacteria on Mars, or else introduce them to Mars and expect them to survive there?

Alternatively, what about Iron Oxide in a solar reactor kept at reasonable temperature and pressure, or is all the Iron ore on Mars already completely oxidized (it seems like the oxidation states could very since Mars lost most of its atmosphere, but maybe I'm wrong)?

Could that be used as a biological source of H2 for our rockets, or at least for our fuel cell powered machines?

RobertDyck has made references to using direct Iron reduction with Hydrogen in several different posts. I'm still reading various documents on variations of direct reduction, energy and material inputs, and the different methods used. It looks like some or all of them actually require more energy, but maybe that's a secondary problem on Mars. If there's no natural gas or coal, then extracting H2 from water may be the only viable method of making steel.

Void · 2023-10-30 19:15:54

This Hydrogen more or less comes from rust. Microbes may consume it and create Methane and Oil if they can get Carbon from rocks.

The rust gets its energy from chemistry and from the heat of the Earth.

And this may end up a dead end in the USA, as there are too many moneyed interests who want to continue to own the market.

But other countries may be out of the grasp of power that these entities have and may see a local interest to seek this resource.

The same forces that tried to suppress shale oil are likely to try to suppress Natural Hydrogen. And even Shale Oil interests may try to suppress it. It is not all only about owning the source of a resource but also to own the markets. That is colonialism.

There are a lot of powerful people who made a lot of money by having golden ties to OPEC, entities within the USA. If you live in the power centers say on the coasts, it may not be of massive value to promote the economic health of the USA, rather if you are of some kind of an elite, you may think that doing a quisling on your undesirables in the interior that makes them poor, only makes the wealth that you get by betraying make you more "Royal".

Having said that, I do not necessarily have an obsession against imports. I just don't like my region to be repeatedly raped to prop up the egos of people who are really not that much actually, not as much as they may think they are. Importing oil and such actually extends our reserves and may put a buck into the pockets of foreign people who I may not so much dislike.

I do not hate OPEC, I dislike our traitors in the USA, the ones who sold us down the river over and over, so to speak. I could easily enjoy a world where they just disappeared.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-10-30 19:23:23)

Void · 2023-10-31 05:04:56

https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topst … ed537&ei=6
Quote:

"Our data indicates that the ground under the Lorraine mining basin is very rich in white hydrogen. If confirmed, this discovery could be a big step forward in the transition towards clean, climate-friendly energy sources," he said.

Necessity makes France a good one to watch, as it is far less likely that their efforts will be successfully disturbed by dark forces.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-10-31 05:07:40)

Calliban · 2023-10-31 15:49:15

kbd512 wrote:

Calliban,
If we drilled a deep bore well on Mars where Iron Oxide and H2O are present, might we either expect to find similar bacteria on Mars, or else introduce them to Mars and expect them to survive there?
Alternatively, what about Iron Oxide in a solar reactor kept at reasonable temperature and pressure, or is all the Iron ore on Mars already completely oxidized (it seems like the oxidation states could very since Mars lost most of its atmosphere, but maybe I'm wrong)?
Could that be used as a biological source of H2 for our rockets, or at least for our fuel cell powered machines?
RobertDyck has made references to using direct Iron reduction with Hydrogen in several different posts. I'm still reading various documents on variations of direct reduction, energy and material inputs, and the different methods used. It looks like some or all of them actually require more energy, but maybe that's a secondary problem on Mars. If there's no natural gas or coal, then extracting H2 from water may be the only viable method of making steel.

It is possible. Oxidation of transition group metals by water happens abiotically as well here on Earth. The same thing may have happened on Mars. There coukd be biotic mechanisms at work there as well. We won't know until people go there.

One of the things that makes this interesting is that Mars has no tectonics. Whereas Earths crust is subject to constant churn and recycling with numerous plate boundaries and subduction zones, the Martian crust appears to have been a monolithic slab going back billions of years. This means that hydrogen produced by water reduction could potentially be trapped for much longer on Mars. We may also find industrially useful quantities of radiogenic gases like helium and argon trapped in porous bedrocks like sandstone, especially if there is an ice layer serving as an impermeable cap rock.

Finding accessible trapped hydrogen on Mars would make colonisation a lot easier. The manufacture of rocket propellant would be energetically much easier with an already reduced hydrogen feedstock. Agriculture on Mars needs fixed nitrogen just as on Earth. If we have an abundant source of hydrogen, then ammonia synthesis is a self-driving exothermic reaction. The reaction of hydrogen with CO2 is exothermic and will produce methane or methanol, depending on the syngas proportions and the catalyst used. Both can serve as polymer feedstocks. Hydrogen can be used to produce reduced iron, which is then converted into steel in an arc furnace. The list of applications is almost endless.

The Sabatier reaction is actually exothermic.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction

CO2 + 4H2 = CH4 +2H2O (-165KJ/mol)

This tells us that 4mols (8 grams) of hydrogen will react with CO2 to yield 165KJ of heat. A kg of H2 will react with CO2 to yield 20.63MJ of heat. If we can find large volumes of hydrogen that is energetically easy to access, then we have a fuel that will actually burn in carbon dioxide with the right catalyst, temperature and pressure. What is more, the exhaust gases are water and methane. Two materials that have plenty of uses.

Last edited by Calliban (2023-10-31 16:01:35)

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#1 2023-10-30 09:54:51

Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

#2 2023-10-30 11:56:06

Re: Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

#3 2023-10-30 13:48:10

Re: Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

#4 2023-10-30 16:03:00

Re: Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

#5 2023-10-30 18:24:46

Re: Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

#6 2023-10-30 19:15:54

Re: Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

#7 2023-10-31 05:04:56

Re: Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

#8 2023-10-31 15:49:15

Re: Natural hydrogen (known as white hydrogen or gold hydrogen)

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