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#51 2023-10-09 17:16:26

Steve Stewart
Member
From: Kansas (USA)
Registered: 2019-09-21
Posts: 161
Website

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

Saturday Morning

Below is a 3 hour 21 minute video posted by the Mars Society on YouTube. I've gone through the video and have listed where (in hours/minutes) each presentation is located in the video.

26th Annual International Mars Society Convention (Day 3 - Saturday AM 10/7/2023)

0h 22m
Dean Cheng
The Chinese Space Program

0h 55m
William Clancey
Robotically Mediated Exploration Undersea and on Mars

1h 28m
Tiffany Morgan
NASA JPL Mars Sample Return

2h 7m
Roberto Carlino
NASA Ames HERA Mars Analog

2h 40m -
James Heiser -
Is the effort to settle Mars a dangerous religion?

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#52 2023-10-09 20:06:19

SpaceNut
Administrator
From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 29,306

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

Thinks for the convention links.

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#53 2023-11-05 19:55:08

Steve Stewart
Member
From: Kansas (USA)
Registered: 2019-09-21
Posts: 161
Website

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

Saturday Afternoon
Arizona Ballroom

26th Annual International Mars Society Convention (Day 3 - Saturday PM 10/7/2023)
9h 35m 50s

The link above contains a comment with timestamps and a description of each of the presentations. The timestamps are shown in blue, and when on YouTube, you can click on the blue timestamps and it will take you to that point in the video. A screen capture of the timestamps and description is shown below.

zYvcHwS.jpg


(I left a comment on YouTube abut a question that was asked after the presentation "Agriculture on Mars" by Colleen McLeod)

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#54 2023-11-05 19:56:08

Steve Stewart
Member
From: Kansas (USA)
Registered: 2019-09-21
Posts: 161
Website

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

Sunday Morning
Arizona Ballroom

26th Annual International Mars Society Convention (Day 4 - Sunday 10/8/2023)
4h 11m 26s

The link above contains a comment with timestamps and a description of each of the presentations. The timestamps are shown in blue, and when on YouTube, you can click on the blue timestamps and it will take you directly to that point in the video. A screen capture of the timestamps and description is shown below.

3Owcfj4.jpg

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#55 2023-11-05 20:03:18

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

Steve, we are in Zoom session right now ... can you load Zoom and join?
(th)

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#56 2023-11-05 20:04:30

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

GW just returned !!! We are up to four attendees and more are welcome!
(th)

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#57 2023-11-05 20:13:25

tahanson43206
Moderator
Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 18,133

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

Conversation started with RobertDyck's idea of chloroplasts for oxygen production, and it has transitioned to manufacture of products such as methane, methanol and related hydrocarbons.

(th)

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#58 2023-11-06 03:15:52

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 7,848
Website

Re: 2023 Mars Society Convention

No Tom, you didn't understand. I hoped to get funding by using the idea for something on Earth. I had considered selling this as a device to produce starch in homes. Is it practical? Would require bags of chloroplasts to be replaced periodically, and a home owner wouldn't have the equipment needed to isolate chloroplasts from leaves. Bags of chloroplasts could be sold frozen. If frozen in liquid nitrogen they should keep for multiple decades, but home owners only have a regular freezer. Stores also only have a regular freezer. Bags of chloroplasts would have to be flash frozen to prevent ice crystals from damaging chloroplasts, but once frozen could be kept for a number of years at regular freezer temperature. They would have to be used once thawed because stores and homes would not have liquid nitrogen. Perhaps not practical.

Getting chloroplasts to remain viable long enough to be practical for life support on a spacecraft requires special treatment. One is genetic modification of the pea plant. One limit is recycling 2PG. Normally the first step of photosynthesis is binding one molecule of CO2 to RuBP. That is a 5 carbon molecule. Binding to CO2 splits it into 2 molecules, each with 3 cabin atoms (3PG). One is recycled back to RuBP, while the other becomes sugar, a monosaccharide. But when oxygen binds it forms one 3PG and one 2PG. The 2PG must be recycled. Part of that processes is done by mitochondria, part by another organelle. Chloroplasts evolved from cyanobacteria. The whole process is done within cyanobacteria. In fact, cyanobacteria use the same recycling pathway as plants, plus a second recycling pathway, plus some is processed back into CO2 so it can start over. I suggest taking the genes from all 3 pathway, put them into the chromosome of a pea plant that becomes the plasmid for a chloroplast. That way invitro chloroplasts will have them. One side effect should be more efficient photosynthesis, so peas should grow faster. There's a manufacturer of pea starch in a small town near the city where I live. Would they be interested in funding this? At the Mars Society convention, I was told Monsanto tried to eliminate photorespiration. Would they be interested?

Just before convention, Robert Zubrin announced the Mars Technology Institute. I spoke with Dr. Zubrin about the chloroplast idea. Could this be used to produce starch, which in turn could feed other foods? For example, use the enzyme amylase to break starch into sugar, then feed sugar to bacteria to produce protein. Engineering bacteria to produce protein has already been done for various pharmaceuticals. Human growth hormone used to be extracted from pituitary glands of human dead bodies. Now it's grown by bacteria in a vat. Could we grow wheat protein this way? Mix that protein with pea starch to produce artificial flour.

Dr. Zubrin was not impressed. He felt chloroplasts or any living thing is not sufficiently energy efficient. But that means he's talking about chemical synthesis of food, such as chemical synthesis of protein. I worry that is not food safe. Brian said it has been done but the process is wildly energy inefficient. So now I have to convince Dr. Zubrin that adding CO2 to bags of chloroplasts will reduce photorespiration and thus increase energy efficiency.

My chloroplast idea was primarily for oxygen generation. This replaces both the water electrolysis tank and Sabatier Reactor of the current system on ISS. It uses sunlight directly as energy, so eliminates power needed for electrolysis and Sabatier. It would need some pumps and fans, but dramatically reduces power required. And produces starch as a byproduct instead of toxic gases. Perhaps food production isn't it's best use.

Brian asked about methanol production. We spoke at length about this, trying to find effective ways of bringing return propellant for a Mars mission all the way from Earth. That is completely different than what Brian talked about. So it hasn't "transitioned".

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