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I thought I might have a topic that has a positive slant, on what I think should be the proper attitude as per a sustainable future and what things Robots, and Space Technology might do for it. This can be removed, if the management likes.
A thing that prompted this thinking on my part was realizing that although there can be justification for environmentalist political groups to question and even impede space technology, and in this case Starship in Texas, the bigger picture says they should be balancing it against the bigger picture. If space can offer energy and mined materials this indeed might take some of the burdens off of the planet Earth.
Last edited by Void (2023-09-24 18:48:10)
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For Void re new topic...
Best wishes for success with this ... it sure does cover a lot of bases!
(th)
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Thanks (th), I appreciate your attention to this.
Yes, well robots will help to make space efforts successful, and success in space could provide energy and materials from space to Earth. I think that the eyes of the reasonable should be reminded of this potential.
It is actually a Jeff Bezos dream to some extent, but the dreams of Elon Musk, if fulfilled will assist in getting both Mars and what Jeff Bezos wants. It is a good potential and should be stimulated in my opinion.
There are other very interesting robots, such as Digit, but tonight I have a little bit about Optimus, I think.
Let's be fair to Digit first though: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/ag … r-AA1gTFhO
This is a nice Optimus video, and is short so as to not burden readers who don't want to drill down too deep: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ut … ORM=WRVORC Quote:
Watch Tesla's Optimus Robot Sort Objects Autonomously
YouTube22K views9 hours ago
CNET Highlights
The robots that may work on the Moon and on orbital power station will likely be somewhat different and more developed, but Digit and Optimus are a very nice start I fell.
I think some people have not yet comprehended that for Jean Average, or Researcher to work in space, they may be able to work in virtual reality on Earth, and yet have some fair amount of virtual reality on the Moon or on space stations.
Am I recommending that people don't go into space, no. Actually, with the productivity robots may provide it can likely be much better afforded.
So, trying to impede Starship from launching may have merit as perhaps things need to be improved, but if global warming is real and we know that poverty is real, then stopping the green advancement in space will impede the green advancement on Earth.
Done.
Last edited by Void (2023-09-24 19:10:19)
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Here is the short video again: This is a nice Optimus video, and is short so as to not burden readers who don't want to drill down too deep: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ut … ORM=WRVORC Quote:
Watch Tesla's Optimus Robot Sort Objects Autonomously
YouTube22K views9 hours ago
CNET Highlights
Here is a much more detailed analysis of Optimus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2u2YT0mRnk Quote:
New Tesla Optimus Bot Video Explained By Scott Walter - Detailed Run Through and Predictions
Randy Kirk
16.3K subscribers
I have been thinking of Optimus as a worker in a greenhouse on Earth. I think it may be able to approach such work not too long from now.
But then I thought about Mars.
If an automated method could disgorge a greenhouse to the surface, and you had some Hydrogen and nutrients, it might be possible to have Optimus grow food on Mars, prior to human arrival. That is a big task for sure. Maybe the two Fairings could split and fold out to allow a balloon type greenhouse? Granted, you need a very good anti-topple method for the rocket.
It is rough of course. But you could recycle your Hydrogen until it was all present in food products. Of course, your Carbon and Oxygen and Nitrogen may come from the Martian atmosphere.
Probably drying the food would be best as you could reuse the water. And cold and absence of Oxygen might help to preserve the food.
So, a very tough problem, probably needing a sort of transformer rocket, that can as much as possible be useful to grow food after landing.
And the presumably when ice mining was possible it could continue. But likely nutrients would be delivered from Earth for some time.
The transformer method will need some work for sure.
Maybe the greenhouse would only be 100 millibars to make the greenhouse lighter and more durable in the environment.
I suppose to make it simpler, you could work with microbial photosynthesis, but you might still need Optimus to assist the process and do the drying and warehousing of the dried food.
It seems not entirely impossible.
Probably sleeping on it might lead to an emergence of more.
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Last edited by Void (2023-09-24 20:31:10)
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So, at a farther extension, robotics might grow food that might be dry preserved. Also, robotic ships might tank up on Oxygen and CO2. In this I presume they would have fission nuclear power in them. Solar might work but of course has some problems.
So, humans upon landing would have some type of food reserve, and Oxygen, and CO for engine fuel and also to make Methane fuel if a ice mining effort can be successful. Before the ice mining they may extract water from their own waste products, if they have tight recycling. Some desert creatures do that the food they eat can provide them water, as they are very good at not releasing the water from their bodies.
So, at that extension, early provision for human survival could be done robotically/industrially, prior to any human landing.
But the ability to land such ships then indicates to me the ability to also work on power plants for Earth in space and the ability to mine needed raw materials from space, the Moon and perhaps some asteroids.
And this could be a "Green" energy resource once the raw materials were properly manipulated.
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Last edited by Void (2023-09-25 07:30:28)
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Well, this topic is my pet so I must feed it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-based_solar_power
Well also , I think doomers have to doom. I don't think they like silver linings. I do like seeking fixes to things.
But I have other things to do today.
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This is nice, it discusses Moxie, and even better a lower energy needs plasma method to generate CO and Oxygen.
https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … 95504047B3
I will have further comments, most likely.
Pause.................
Resume:
The end of the previous video talks of the plasma method to split CO2 on Mars.
Here is an article about it: https://www.freethink.com/space/produce … tian%20air.
Quote:
Plasma reactors use electric fields to excite molecules in a gas, causing electrons to break free from atoms. For their study, the researchers demonstrated how an accelerated beam of those electrons could be used to split CO2 molecules in a reactor filled with simulated Martian air.
Can we make crackers out of microbes that eat CO and use Oxygen? (My question)
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41396- … vironments.
Quote:
Atmospheric carbon monoxide oxidation is a widespread
mechanism supporting microbial surviva
For now, lets call these "Mars Crackers".
A Starship will land, with residual Oxygen and Methane to consume. I will also arrive with some Hydrogen to consume in making "Mars Crackers". I will likely have things like Kilo-power Reactors on board.
The plasma method to separate CO2 from the Martian Atmosphere would be 10 times better than Moxie. So, the products to produce will be LOX, Liquid CO, and "Mars Crackers".
The pressure calculator I sometimes use: http://endmemo.com/chem/vaporpressurewater.php
Our sea water freezes at about -2 degrees C, so the pressure would be: 5.2256 mbar.
Very compatible with the plasma method to split CO2 into CO and Oxygen.
So, we will want to sea salt from Earth, to use in a grow tank, and the Liquid Hydrogen and Oxygen,, and Methane, and outside gasses will be used to create a water solvent for microbes to grow in.
The microbes are to be harvested to make "Mars Crackers".
I think that it will be obvious that this method if achieved and perfected will be quite useful in other places in space, including the Moon, in a modified form. And so could help facilitate human presence in Earth orbit to support power satellites to send power to Earth, to keep it green.
This is very nuclear friendly in space, but solar could also power it.
Who needs potatoes, if you have crackers?
I am very pleased!
Humans arriving on Mars would have stored Oxygen, Carbon Monoxide, Mars Crackers, and would be able to synthesize water from Mars crackers, probably after they are eaten. From waste products. This would give them a very big jump start before they had to mine ice.
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Last edited by Void (2023-09-26 15:08:50)
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This is not CO and Oxygen, but suggests that better than "Mars Crackers" might be possible down the line:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41587-023-01992-5
Quote:
From air to your plate: tech startups making food from atmospheric CO2
Claire Turrell
Nature Biotechnology (2023)Cite this articleMetrics
Air Protein Company: https://www.airprotein.com/
Quote:
Nature's Ultimate Protein Made from Air
We’ve unlocked nature’s ultimate protein, grown with air, water, and energy – defining the future of wholesome food production through landless agriculture.
Makes it seem possible perhaps.
Looks rather good for Space Applications and Earth Applications.
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Last edited by Void (2023-09-26 20:34:52)
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So microbes that consume CO and Oxygen replace the Algae as the base of a food chain.
Th setup seems good for Mars, but could also work nicely in any low pressure situation.
but focusing on Mars, this eventually could be a very good use of solar energy. If you had a plant that would run when the sunshine was available, and automatically with only some human intervention make products that could be very useful. Food, Oxygen, Carbon Monoxide. That might be very productive, and then I guess I would now tilt towards nuclear fission for continuing life support methods for humans.
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In space for space stations this might also be a workable scheme, but the solar would be much more constant, so power methods would likely rely more on solar than Mars would for human continuing life support.
And space stations could support power platforms in space to send power to Earth and actually the Moon and other places.
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Last edited by Void (2023-09-27 09:59:27)
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This video applies, towards the later parts space solar power is mentioned: https://embedy.org/movies/NXdCNTFRN0hPV … J3VGxSWT0=
The more wealth can be procured from space, the less draw on the Earth's resources may be needed.
I see that the possibility of environmentalism as being a sort of prostitution device.
In prostitution, first you try to get an interest developed in something or find out what people want. Then try to take it away from them. If your pimps are effective, then you may enforce a price on what was desired that you have now seized control of. This sort of arrangement has some value to some extent to regulate society.
For instance, religions I am familiar with have some connection with this, in controlling human sexuality, and guiding it to stable families to raise children in, so it is not always bad. But even in religion this can become a game of exploitation. (Sometimes).
The worst example of this is when non-religious institutions are attempting to do this. Such exists in the USA, and other places in the world. I have begun to think that it is an exploitation of male sexuality. Greed is satisfied by warping the proper guidance away from family safe behaviors.
I am not a puritan. Some of this I believe comes from the previous experience with slavery in parts of this country. The desire to live off of the efforts of others in a corrupt way. Sad to say, I think that some of the descendants of those enslaved people are so deep in that culture that they don't even recognize what they are doing.
Anyway, I am concerned about matters that may matter. Other people's sexual rituals are things I generally don't want to know about.
Where my concern lies is when environmentalism may be used to take a hostage, for the purpose of procuring power which may translate into money also. There are many reasons why various groups may climb on board of a blocking action for space technology, and at the very least we should consider what the motivations are for these groups.
Here in this topic, I want to emphasize how important space technology may be to human future development. I want to at least know if we have rats in the woodwork, not looking after their duty to do the right thing, but rather seeking power and money, in a hidden prostitution game.
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Last edited by Void (2023-09-29 11:48:18)
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