Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-16 12:58:29

I did a search and did not find any result on the Oort Cloud,

there were no reults, I did find old interesting newmars threads with discussion on Neptune, the Voyager - Interstellar mission, Plutoids, Titanformation process, a cold treasure, Alpha Centauri and Interstellar "World Ships"
'Neptune has 1000's of trojans' Colonizing asteroids, Pluto Realms, a comet colony, Artificial Planets and other such topics

After years of observations scientists came with a theory, far beyond the sun and planets, there exists a large cloud of icy material, ice water rocky stony compounds and dust and rock where most of these 'comets' come from, one perhaps was disrupted and wiped out the Dinosaurs.

For now it is probably impossible to colonize anything in the Oort cloud and will be impossible for some time into the future.

We have the assumption pf presence of comet clouds around our own Sun and otherwise normal stars is a icy rocky cloud and this is 'common occurrence' in the Galaxy. From our Earth Neptune is an average distance of 30.1 AU 4.5 billion km; 2.8 billion miles,
our Sun is 8.3 light-minutes away or 1AU, average distance from Earth to the sun is about 150 million kilometers 93 million miles.
Pluto is 3,100 million miles or 3.1 billion miles 5,000 million km or 5 billion kilometers from Earth, roughly 0.000624 light-years or 5.5 light 'hours' some have theorized the Oort cloud lies beyond the edge of the Solar System, at a distance of up to 50,000 AU or 0.79 lightyears, A a trans-Neptunian object is a minor planet or dwarf planet in the Solar System that orbits the Sun at a greater average distance than Neptune, largest known trans-Neptunian objects are Pluto and Eris, followed by Haumea and Makemake, several dwarf planet candidates have been found such as Gonggong, Quaoar, Sedna, and Orcus..

The Kuiper belt we have far more evidence for, it is though to be a circumstellar disc in the outer Solar System, extending from the orbit of Neptune at 30 astronomical units (AU) to approximately 50 AU from the Sun and similar to the asteroid belt, but is far larger—20 times as wide and 20–200 times as massive, Some of the Solar System's moons, such as Neptune's Triton might have originally come from the Kuiper belt. The minor planet discovered 'Albion' was the first Kuiper belt object (KBO) since Pluto and Charon

Gaia data or JWST data might allow us to see this comet, dwarf planet, cloud 'stuff', new telescopes might find signatures around stars or tens of thousands of known and new asteroids and comets within the Solar System

Oort cloud, is theorized to be a vast cloud of icy planetesimals surrounding the Sun at distances ranging from maybe 'near Pluto' to 2,000 AU to 200,000 AU 0.03 to 3.2 light-years almost as far as 'Alpha Centauri'

Astronomers Find a Massive Crater on a Tiny World Beyond Pluto
https://www.inverse.com/science/somethi … tiny-world

Tiny 2002 MS4 orbits about 42 times farther from the Sun than Earth, in the dim, distant reaches of the Kuiper Belt. Because it’s so small and so far away, it catches and reflects very little sunlight, so even JWST can’t get a detailed look at it. Instead, hundreds of astronomers led by Rommel — some academic and some ordinary citizens — mapped out the shape of the planet by watching its silhouette against the background of stars.

'Oumuamua likely not an alien spaceship
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/quirks- … -1.6883838

Origin of 1I/’Oumuamua. II. An Ejected Exo-Oort Cloud Object?
pdf
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.3 … aafda6/pdf

Capture of exocomets and the erosion of the Oort cloud due to stellar encounters in the Galaxy
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … the_Galaxy

No longer a planet but a Dwarf planet or Kupier belt object

Could we tweak the solar system to make Pluto a planet again?
https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 … net-again/

Massive crater found on distant world far beyond Neptune
https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 … d-neptune/

The idea of Oort clouds might explain some of that missing dark matter in the universe, such regions may have trillions of objects larger than 1 km (0.62 mi)

Life here might not have started in Venus or Mars but maybe even came from another star system, the vast majority of Oort Cloud objects are thought to be composed of icy volatiles from our examination of comets – finding signatures such as water, methane, ethane, carbon monoxide, hydrogen cyanide, and ammonia, the Oort cloud might also contain Iron bodies, or 1-2% of the Solar System 'Asteroids'.

Oort cloud Ecology
Extra-solar Oort clouds and the origin of asteroidal interlopers
https://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/full_ … 88-20.html
We simulate the formation and evolution of Oort clouds around the 200 nearest stars (within ∼16 pc according to the Gaia DR2) database. This study is performed by numerically integrating the planets and minor bodies in orbit around the parent star and in the Galactic potential. The calculations start 1 Gyr ago and continue for 100 Myr into the future. In this time frame, we simulate how asteroids (and planets) are ejected from the vicinity of the stars and settle in an Oort cloud and how they escape the local stellar gravity to form tidal streams.

Protoplanetary Disks
https://web.archive.org/web/20141106220 … -alma.html
'Birth of Planets Revealed in Astonishing Detail in ALMA'

Planetary Systems Now Forming in Orion
https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap091222.html

How do planets form? To help find out, the Hubble Space Telescope was tasked to take a detailed look at one of the more interesting of all astronomical nebulae, the Great Nebula in Orion. The Orion nebula, visible with the unaided eye near the belt in the constellation of Orion, is an immense nearby starbirth region and probably the most famous of all astronomical nebulas. Insets to the above mosaic show numerous proplyds, many of which are stellar nurseries likely harboring planetary systems in formation. Some proplyds glow as close disks surrounding bright stars light up, while other proplyds contain disks further from their host star, contain cooler dust, and hence appear as dark silhouettes against brighter gas. Studying this dust, in particular, is giving insight for how planets are forming. Many proplyd images also show arcs that are shock waves - fronts where fast moving material encounters slow moving gas. The Orion Nebula lies about 1,500 light years distant and is located in the same spiral arm of our Galaxy as our Sun.

Our own Oort cloud region or disc if it exists, the Oort Cloud is very difficult to observe. We also have a new class of dwarf planets or planetoids including a classification of Scattered Disc Object scattered disc or scattered disk is a distant circumstellar disc in the Solar System that is sparsely populated by icy small Solar System bodies, plutinos are a dynamical group of trans-Neptunian objects that orbit in 2:3 mean-motion resonance with Neptune, there is a classification for the ESDOs, EDDOs or 'Extreme trans-Neptunian objects'. In other systems a debris disk or debris disc is a circumstellar disk of dust and debris in orbit around a star. Sometimes these disks contain prominent rings, as seen in the image of Fomalhaut while a circumplanetary disk or circumplanetary disc is a torus, pancake or ring-shaped accumulation of matter composed of gas, dust, planetesimals, asteroids or collision fragments in orbit around a planet.

Since our own Solar System cloud is so dim and the Oort Cloud is so much farther out than the Kuiper Belt, the region has mostly remained unexplored by astronomers and scientists but there is something there and something around other Stars in other systems.

An Oort cloud probably exists around our own Solar system,
other Stars might have their own Oort cloud or 'Kupier belt' and some kind of inter stellar disc material left behind after the formation of the alien Extra-Solar-System

tahanson43206 · 2023-09-16 13:37:32

For Mars_B4_Moon re new topic ...

Best wishes for success with this ambitious new topic ...

There ** should ** be discoveries in the years ahead that would fit well into this topic.

I am delighted to be able to give your new topic the push over the "first reply" hurdle!

Because of the great size of your opening post, I will offer the suggestion to future posters, to try to keep on topic by keeping the focus on the Oort Cloud and beyond.

We have two topics that are devoted to the Kuiper Belt.

(th)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-16 16:12:29

Can a telescope near the ability of Webb find a series of Oort cloud objects? Webb already has the near-IR and mid-IR sensitivity to observe virtually all known Kuiper Belt Objects. I had wondered if you had dedicated hunts for Large Oort cloud objects perhaps you could maybe see data on some of these objects in Occultations maybe Eclipse something in the infra-red, you could use something in the background of very large angular size, apparent diameter for example the Large Magellanic Cloud, a Planetary Nebula or large diffuse nebula, Smith's Cloud, Orion, Gum Nebula, Messier 2 in the constellation Aquarius, Omega Centauri a globular cluster in the constellation of Centaurus M13 the Great Globular Cluster in Hercules, the Andromeda Galaxy, Carina Nebula, the Small Magellanic Cloud. Of course the dimming would be very small as the brightness of these Messier objects would outshine any small distant Oort cloud object. Maybe like a coronagraph an attachment designed to block out the direct light from a star you could block the brightest part of the Nebula and you would be taking constant data from these Nebula and clusters that are already studied and reasonably well understood. Or perhaps like the way the first exoplanets were found Oort cloud objects might be found in blocked radio and high energy such as X-ray signals occultation of the pulsar objects, because Pulsars are so precise you can find small objects around pulsars, down to the size of large asteroids. If looking at a background object like a Cluster or Nebula in IR and waiting for an Oort cloud object to pass in front then have maybe an AI computer machine do some detective work digging looking for that dimming event a job a human might find very tedious.

We believe Orbits of the small Oort cloud icy bodies can be disrupted and sent inward by interacting with a larger more massive ice and stony object, the occasional close passage of a star or giant interstellar molecular cloud near the solar system or the gravitational forces, called disk tide.

This was from JWST

https://phys.org/news/2023-04-jwst-reve … young.html

Researchers using the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) have taken a first look at their data that probe the chemistry of the regions of disks around young stars where rocky planets form.
Already at that stage, the data reveal the disks to be chemically diverse and rich in molecules such as water, carbon dioxide, and organic hydrocarbon compounds like benzene as well as tiny grains of carbon and silicates.

The Oort cloud in our solar system, many scientists and astronomers think it might be a roughly spherical cloud of icy small bodies that slowly revolve around the Sun at distances typically more than 1,000 times that of the orbit of Neptune. Pluto is 3,100 million miles or 5 billion kilometers, the Pioneer 10 spacecraft is beyond Pluto at over 8 billion miles away from Earth while Voyager 1 is the most distant spacecraft, about 17.5 billion kilometers (10.9 billion miles) away from the sun at a northward angle in year 1998, Voyager 1 passed Pioneer 10

a news item from March of this year

'Oort cloud: What is it and where is it located?'
https://www.space.com/16401-oort-cloud- … shell.html

It begins beyond the Kuiper Belt and even beyond the influence of the sun’s magnetic field, technically in interstellar space. There may be billions, or even trillions, of objects in it, and some are so large that they count as dwarf planets.

'Voyager 1 Lifts Off Toward an Interstellar Journey'
https://www.nasa.gov/image-feature/voya … ar-journey

For the moment I believe we will continue to study other Exoplanet Solar systems to understand our own Oort cloud just as we study other Galaxy like Andromeda to understand our Milky Way Galaxy.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-09-16 16:45:03)

Calliban · 2023-09-18 05:29:20

I wonder if active radar could be used to detect large objects out to 1000AU distance? The effectiveness of radar falls off with the 4th power of distance. So enormous power would be needed. But we could, for example, explode a 100MT thermonuclear device in the outer solar system. We would then use radio telescopes to collect the pings as they come in. The timing and intensity of a ping would give us distance and average diameter. The time differential between detections from different recievers woukd tell us where it came from. Doppler effect would also give orbital speed. Large optical and IR telescopes can then zero in on the objects.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-27 18:56:24

There are a papers that describe the Detectability of Kuiper and Oort cloud objects. Even with JWST the Oort cloud object would still be too faint to be seen by JWST but it might pass in front of another object. Reading some other articles it seems they could do it using something like Kepler but it was a dedicated Exoplanet mission and it could not be done because of orbits and high ecliptic latitude field, objects would appear as a photometric deviation or IR dipping but in a single measurement and never to be seen again unless they passed in front of a cluster of objects.

PDF

1. INTRODUCTION
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/521396/pdf
Stellar occultation, the dimming of a background star by a fore- ground object passing through the line of sight, is used in a variety
of scientific studies to probe the properties of foreground objects. With stellar occultations, it has been possible to discover and study planetary rings (e.g., Bosh et al. 2002 and references therein) and
the atmospheres of planets and their satellites (e.g., Elliot et al.
2003a, 2003b; Gulbis et al. 2006; Pasachoff et al. 2005; Sicardy
et al. 2006).
Studies suggest that by searching for serendipitous occultations in monitored stars it may be possible to detect outer solar system objects in the Kuiper Belt (Dyson 1992; Axelrod et al.
1992) and objects as far out as the inner edge of the Oort Cloud ( Bailey 1976). This provides a novel way to ascertain the size
distribution of small-object populations in the Kuiper Belt and the inner Oort Cloud

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-10-21 18:39:41

'real, or radioactive noise?'

In 1952, A Group of Three “Stars” Vanished. Astronomers Still Can’t Find Them
https://www.universetoday.com/163820/in … ore-163820

Stars don’t just vanish. They can explode, or experience a brief period of brightness, but they don’t vanish. And yet, the photographic proof was there. The three stars are clearly in the first image, and clearly not in the second. The assumption then is that they must have suddenly dimmed, but even that is hard to accept.

Another idea is that they weren’t stars at all. The three bright points are within 10 arcseconds of each other. If they were three individual objects, then something must have triggered their brightening. Given the timespan of about 50 minutes, causality and the speed of light would require they were no more than 6 AU apart. This means they would have to be no more than 2 light-years away. They could have been Oort Cloud objects where some event caused them to brighten around the same time. Later observations couldn’t find them because they had since drifted on along their orbits.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-02 14:01:45

Comets 101 − everything you need to know about the snow cones of space
https://uk.style.yahoo.com/comets-101-e … 02569.html

Some kind of Station at the OOrt Cloud could simply get lost like 'Roanoke'.

Unless they find a Wormhole or some type of Entanglement work around that somewhat bends the Laws and because the Oort cloud is so far away communication might be similar to some of our old threads on new mars, a reply to a mail received could take 10 days or many years, 0.03 to 3 light-years

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-28 08:50:49

Seems JWST can study this stuff around other stars, maybe scientists or NASA, ESA and Canadians will give us more info in the near future. There might not be many differences between Comets and small Planets, the are icy bodies which follow highly elliptical orbits and larger objects that orbit around a star or a stellar remnant but comets typically will take much longer to transit and often will not be seen orbit again in a human life time.

ESA/Webb Picture of the Month: the protostar HH 797

This new Picture of the Month from the NASA/ESA/CSA James Webb Space Telescope reveals intricate details of the Herbig Haro object 797 (HH 797). Herbig-Haro objects are luminous regions surrounding newborn stars (known as protostars), and are formed when stellar winds or jets of gas spewing from these newborn stars form shockwaves colliding with nearby gas and dust at high speeds. HH 797, which dominates the lower half of this image, is located close to the young open star cluster IC 348, which is located near the eastern edge of the Perseus dark cloud complex. The bright infrared objects in the upper portion of the image are thought to host two further protostars.

This image was captured with Webb’s Near-InfraRed Camera (NIRCam). Infrared imaging is powerful in studying newborn stars and their outflows, because the youngest stars are invariably still embedded within the gas and dust from which they are formed. The infrared emission of the star’s outflows penetrates the obscuring gas and dust, making Herbig-Haro objects ideal for observation with Webb’s sensitive infrared instruments. Molecules excited by the turbulent conditions, including molecular hydrogen and carbon monoxide, emit infrared light that Webb can collect to visualise the structure of the outflows. NIRCam is particularly good at observing the hot (thousands of degree Celsius) molecules that are excited as a result of shocks.

https://esawebb.org/images/potm2311a/

Space in a Snap: Where does the solar system end?
https://plus.nasa.gov/video/space-in-a- … t-cloud-2/

A type of ice Planetesimal, Comet or ice water object would show some kind of reflection or absorption, JWST looks at IR, Hubble looks in the visible, Suzaku, INTEGRAL, COBE, WMAP, Planck were designed to listen in the Microwave, Gamma-ray, X-ray and LUVOIR is expected to follow JWST in the UV.
maybe some type of Explosive Pulse would act as a Sonar to find these distant objects beyond Neptune. Maybe a type of laser radition searchlight or spotlight could be designed, a powerful beam of radiation of approximately parallel rays in a particular direction that sweeps searching or Oort cloud objects.

The watery ice or other material might give indication of a body due to its reflection or absorption of X-ray, Heat and Light Energy in a 'Flash' the spectral albedo refers to the entire spectrum of solar radiation reflected from an object, Clear ice is actually less reflective than water, some ice is dark and some ice is bright other ice might have an uneven surface and scatter or be better at reflecting radiation Liquid water which has a very high dielectric constant. Water has a broad absorption spectrum in the microwave region, which has been explained in terms of changes in the hydrogen bond network crystalline ice the vibrational spectrum is also affected by hydrogen bonding and there are lattice vibrations causing absorption in the far-infrared, communication at GHz frequencies is very difficult in fresh waters and salt water, to heat food by Microwaves the frequency of 2.45 GHz, wavelength 122 mm, is commonly used, it also absorbs heat as a greenhouse gas taking in 70% of the known absorption of incoming sunlight.

Instead of a small laser it could be a larger search beam, like you see at Vegas shows or Laser art at Pop concerts 'Tribue in Light honors victims of 9/11 terror attacks'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxynZAnNS8w

Telescopes listening for a series of pulses or signals would receive communication by laser but perhaps need to be put into space beyond the carbon dioxide and water absorption in our own atmosphere, perhaps another listening station would amplify and repeat a transmission and be placed at Mars or the Sun–Earth L2 Lagrangian point.

Investigation of Water-Vapor Plasma Excited by Microwaves as Ultraviolet Light Source
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … ght_Source

Hydrogen production by microwave based plasma dissociation of water
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a … 6119321854

Ice/water absorption spectrum

Deciphering Water’s Dielectric Constant
https://physics.aps.org/articles/v9/122

I think setting off one Nuclear bomb beyond Pluto to try study Oort cloud objects seems like a Waste of energy for Communicating such info, perhaps you could build something repeating more than once or send out hardened devices and fly them beyond Pluto as Voyager and Pioneer have done, devices might fly far apart but in laser guided formation, next to them could be devices that repeat EMP radiation, it would create a burst of infrared, gamma and "radioflash" bursts or maybe compressing magnetic flux using explosive. NASA recently is having Communicating success via Long-Distance Lasers.

Spacecraft at such a far distance and near such pulse explosions would need to be radiation proof and then report their readings

There are reports that during the Cold War nations were working on 'Super-EMP Capabilities'

Nuclear EMP Attack Scenarios
https://web.archive.org/web/20210317144 … /AD1097009
This new way of warfare is called many things by many nations. In Russia, China, and Iran it is called Sixth Generation Warfare, NonContact Warfare, Electronic Warfare, Total Information Warfare, and Cyber Warfare.

Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack
https://web.archive.org/web/20220427231 … 484497.pdf

The common element that can produce such an impact from EMP is primarily electronics, so pervasive in all aspects of our society and military, coupled through critical infrastructures. Our vulnerability is increasing daily as our use of and dependence on electronics continues to grow. The impact of EMP is asymmetric in relation to potential protagonists who are not as dependent on modern electronics.

There is of course a possibility that stony or 'iron' material is out there beyond Pluto but from Planet formation models we expect a lot of 'Ice' or Comet material, Trans-Neptunian objects like Pluto, Sedna, Arrokoth, Haumea, Makemake, Gonggong, are found to have a lot of water vapor, tholins or amorphous water ice some of them show emissions of Nitrogen and Methane.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-11-28 10:09:52)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-12-26 04:48:52

Whipple a proposed space observatory by NASA it would try to search for objects in the Kuiper belt and the theorized Oort cloud by conducting occultation observations

The Whipple Mission: Exploring the Oort Cloud and the Kuiper Belt
https://web.archive.org/web/20151117031 … 014dec.pdf

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-01-03 20:23:17

Solar Sail Sun Satellites Could Intercept All Future Interstellar Objects

https://www.nextbigfuture.com/2023/12/s … jects.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2024-05-26 07:36:01

An icy visitor from Oort Cloud is coming to skies near you this fall
https://www.devdiscourse.com/article/sc … -this-fall

key ingredients for life

The Centaur an Asteroid or a Comet? Centaur object, any of a population of small bodies, similar to asteroids in size but to comets in composition

there is evidence that Saturn's moon Phoebe, imaged by the Cassini mission, may be a captured centaur that originated in the Kuiper belt.

Scientists discover CO₂ and CO ices in outskirts of solar system
https://phys.org/news/2024-05-scientist … solar.html

quote

'A research team, led by planetary scientists Mário Nascimento De Prá and Noemí Pinilla-Alonso from the University of Central Florida's Florida Space Institute (FSI), made the findings by using the infrared spectral capabilities of the James Webb Space Telescope (JWST) to analyze the chemical composition of 59 trans-Neptunian objects and Centaurs.'

In comets, we observe carbon dioxide as a gas, released from the sublimation of ices on or just below the surface," she says. "However, since carbon dioxide had never been observed on the surface of TNOs [(trans-Neptunian objects)], the common belief was that it was trapped beneath the surface. Our latest findings upend this notion. We now know that carbon dioxide is not only present on the surface of TNOs but is also more common than water ice, which we previously thought was the most abundant surface material.

Hénault analyzed and compared the absorption bands of carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide across all objects. While there was ample evidence of the ice, there was a great diversity in abundance and distribution, Hénault says.
"While we found CO2 to be ubiquitous across TNOs, it is definitely not uniformly distributed," she says. "Some objects are poor in carbon dioxide while others are very rich in carbon dioxide and show carbon monoxide. Some objects display pure carbon dioxide while others have it mixed with other compounds. Linking the characteristics of carbon dioxide to orbital and physical parameters allowed us to conclude that carbon dioxide variations are likely representative of the objects' different formation regions and early evolution."

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2024-05-26 07:41:47)

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#1 2023-09-16 12:58:29

Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#2 2023-09-16 13:37:32

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#3 2023-09-16 16:12:29

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#4 2023-09-18 05:29:20

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#5 2023-09-27 18:56:24

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#6 2023-10-21 18:39:41

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#7 2023-11-02 14:01:45

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#8 2023-11-28 08:50:49

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#9 2023-12-26 04:48:52

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#10 2024-01-03 20:23:17

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

#11 2024-05-26 07:36:01

Re: Exo Cometary disc ExtraSolar Asteroid Oort Clouds from Other Stars

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