New Mars Forums

Shaun Barrett

Member

From: Cairns, Queensland, Australia

Registered: 2001-12-28

Posts: 2,843

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Cindy:-

I'm all for space exploration of course (provided it's done intelligently and in a non-destructive manner), but it's also important to live in the here and now, enjoying the (seemingly very rare) life we've somehow found ourselves in possession of.

    This is very true!
    Having been fascinated with the concept of vast tracts of time since childhood - I originally wanted to be a paleontologist - I've developed a perspective on things which is 'bigger' than most of the people I've spoken to about such matters. It's a mixed blessing, too, because it can do one of two things: First, it can make you wonder what the significance of human life really is, considering we're so small and our tenure here so brief; and secondly, it can make you appreciate how special we are in this enormous ancient universe, with our ability to contemplate the workings of the very cosmos which gave birth to us.

    But Cindy's recognition here of the fragility of the conditions in our stellar neighbourhood, which allow us to continue living and even allow our solar system to continue existing(! ), has a bearing on our approach to things like terraforming Mars - or at least, I believe it has.
    This is a violent and very changeable universe. Our existence is not guaranteed any more than our solar system's existence is guaranteed. Just because things look so stable and quiet in our region of the galaxy right now, doesn't mean they won't be chaotic and deadly next year.

    It may be that sentient life appears rarely and, perhaps, briefly and sporadically in this universe. Maybe it's unusual for a planetary system to remain relatively undisturbed for long periods, as ours seems to have done, whereby life can take hold and survive over geological time spans.
    My view is that time may be short; shorter than we think. We need to live for the moment, 'seize the day', and take advantage of any good prospect for advancement that comes our way.
    I see Mars as a golden opportunity to make mankind a multi-planet species, to expand our range and our technology to a point where our survival as a species is more likely. Ultimately it will lead to us spreading out across the galaxy, establishing new civilisations hundreds of light years away. All of this will be an insurance policy against the snuffing out of our kind of life by some sort of cosmic catastrophe, such as a 'local' supernova like the one BGD mentions.

    I think we need to be less 'conservationist' about places like Mars, where life holds on by its fingernails (if it holds on at all! ), and should take the present chance we have to improve its ability to nurture life. If there is indeed a wholly alien form of life there somewhere, then by all means go softly, but we shouldn't 'conserve' ourselves into oblivion in an attempt to save Mars in its present state, just to have a nearby supernova sterilise our whole solar system a few years later anyway!
    Mars is a gift. It's an astonishingly Earth-like planet right next-door which we can cause to blossom and sustain life on its surface. If we don't take advantage of this golden opportunity, given to us by providence in an unusual display of cosmic beneficence, then we're all fools and deserve whatever disaster comes our way.
    Such chances are rare. Let's grab this one with both hands!
                                                     

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The word 'aerobics' came about when the gym instructors got together and said: If we're going to charge $10 an hour, we can't call it Jumping Up and Down.   - Rita Rudner

Byron

Member

From: Florida, USA

Registered: 2002-05-16

Posts: 844

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

I think we need to be less 'conservationist' about places like Mars, where life holds on by its fingernails (if it holds on at all! ), and should take the present chance we have to improve its ability to nurture life. If there is indeed a wholly alien form of life there somewhere, then by all means go softly, but we shouldn't 'conserve' ourselves into oblivion in an attempt to save Mars in its present state, just to have a nearby supernova sterilise our whole solar system a few years later anyway!
    Mars is a gift. It's an astonishingly Earth-like planet right next-door which we can cause to blossom and sustain life on its surface. If we don't take advantage of this golden opportunity, given to us by providence in an unusual display of cosmic beneficence, then we're all fools and deserve whatever disaster comes our way.
    Such chances are rare. Let's grab this one with both hands!
                                                     

Yes, I have to agree with you on that one...

We basically have two choices when it comes to Mars: we can go over there and poke around a bit, pulling back when we get "bored" (like we did with the short-sighted Apollo missions) -or- we can go there to establish a beachhead on the new frontier and make it a second home for humanity.  The ethical issues concerning terraforming and how far to take it will have to be decided by the people who live on Mars and will actually be performing the actual work.  But in any case, a viable civilization on Mars will be the beginning of humankind's big push into space, because if we can "do" Mars, there will be no limit to what we can do elsewhere...

B

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Voyager 1 May Be At End of Our Solar System  :*(

*Bon voyage, sweetie!

The article does mention that "the nuclear-fueled probes (V1 and V2)" could last until 2020. 

I didn't know it was "nuclear fueled" (or perhaps forgot).

Wow, I remember when it was launched.  Wouldn't it be great if there truly is "no end" for it? 

It does have at least 1 more adventure before it:  Check out the information on "termination shock" and "heliopause."  I've read about this before, quite some time ago...the article is a good refresher of that information.

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Glorious Photos!

*I found this web site while checking out a link to a story provided in the Astronomy Magazine online newsletter.  Lots of options including images from the Apollo missions, Hubble space telescope, even a newsletter subscription.

Check it out.

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Astronomers Unwrap Hidden Cosmic Monster

*Sheesh...sneaky black holes.  What next?!

--Cindy

P.S.:  BGD, great article on our galaxy cannibalizing the nearby dwarf galaxy.  Dog-eat-dog wherever you go.       :;):

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

*Found all these very nice photos of aurorae in my latest "Astronomy" magazine newsletter.  The introductory paragraph was written by the editor of the newsletter:

*****************************************************************

"Over the past week, we've received more images of the huge sunspots
recently seen on the Sun and many pictures of aurora caused by
Earth-directed particle blasts from these sunspots. Here's a
sample of my favorites.

Javier Toledo captured this view of the Sun and its sunspots
from Australia.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.17.20611

David Haworth used a webcam to record the transit of an airplane
over the sunspot group 488.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.18.20611

William Whittall tracked the blinking light of another plane across
an aurora-filled Big Dipper.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.19.20611

Greg Gage witnessed an aurora in southern Maryland.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.20.20611

Anthony Arrigo of UtahSkies.org enjoyed an auroral dance over
Park City, Utah.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.21.20611

Listening to ocean waves behind him, Pete Lawrence photographed
waves of purple and green aurora washing over the horizon in Selsey,
West Sussex, U.K.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.22.20611

Joe Privitera watched as bright aurora filled the sky in
Bantam, Connecticut.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.27.20611

And finally, Wayne Cukras recorded a pastel-hued show in the skies
of northern Ohio.
http://list.astronomy.com/UM/T.asp?A12.80.10.26.20611

The images are still coming in, so check back next week for more!"

--Cindy

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Solar System Exploration

*This is a terrific web site!

Includes updated information (including the ailing Japanese "Nozomi" Mars probe; funny, an article about "Nozomi" in the latest issue of Astronomy magazine was subtitled "The probe no one knows about"...ha!  The article's author doesn't know this message board apparently) on current astronomical (and terrestrial) events, etc.

Also has an extensive section devoted to the planets and their moons.  Check out Saturn's moon, Iapetus; it'd been a while, and I found this web site while searching for images of it via Google.

Quality photos and good information here.

--cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

*Here's a nice "blast from the past."  Magnificent desolation indeed.  Imagine actually being there; it's mind-boggling, even all these years later (I'm not sure I've seen this photo before):

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031109.html

---

*Very nice photo sequence of the recent lunar eclipse:

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031111.html

--Cindy

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Josh Cryer

Moderator

Registered: 2001-09-29

Posts: 3,830

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

SpaceDev's Satellite Mission

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws....y=45046

heheh

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Some useful links while MER are active. [url=http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html]Offical site[/url] [url=http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/MM_NTV_Web.html]NASA TV[/url] [url=http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/mer2004/]JPL MER2004[/url] [url=http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/mera/statustextonly.html]Text feed[/url]
--------
The amount of solar radiation reaching the surface of the earth totals some 3.9 million exajoules a year.

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Mars, Then and Now

*Has some additional links within the text.

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Jupiter 

*It's soooo pretty!  Stunning photo.

Can't wait for Cassini to arrive at Saturn.

--Cindy

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Quick Fix for Mars Rovers

"The first in-flight check of the Mars Exploration Rovers'
equipment signaled trouble with an instrument, but subsequent analysis revealed both the problem and a solution."

--Cindy

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Gives New Meaning To...

The phrase "Tripping the light fantastic."

--Cindy 

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

A Kuiper Belt Object?

*"Astronomers have found a large object orbiting the Sun near Neptune's orbit..."

This one is 570 km in diameter.

--Cindy

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Despite the Success of Beagle 2...

*"Money doubts haunt U.K. Mars effort."

Britain's commitment to future Mars missions remains in doubt, despite the success of the Beagle 2 project.

Bad news. 

--Cindy

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Byron

Member

From: Florida, USA

Registered: 2002-05-16

Posts: 844

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

A Kuiper Belt Object?

*"Astronomers have found a large object orbiting the Sun near Neptune's orbit..."

This one is 570 km in diameter.

--Cindy

Wow, that's a biggie.  It could almost be big enough to be our 10th planet...

I can see why many scientists are attempting to "declassify" Pluto as a planet, lumping in with the rest of the Kuiper Belt objects.  But Pluto has its own moon...I say let's keep it as a planet..lol...

B

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Article about Pluto

*"Strange events on distant Pluto" 

Really good article.

--Cindy 

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

A Kuiper Belt Object?

*"Astronomers have found a large object orbiting the Sun near Neptune's orbit..."

This one is 570 km in diameter.

--Cindy

Wow, that's a biggie.  It could almost be big enough to be our 10th planet...

I can see why many scientists are attempting to "declassify" Pluto as a planet, lumping in with the rest of the Kuiper Belt objects.  But Pluto has its own moon...I say let's keep it as a planet..lol...

B

*Yeah.

Towards the bottom of the article, it says this object is being called "Plutino" by some. 

Pluto is a Kuiper object with its own moon?  Well, there is an asteroid out there with its own moon.  :laugh:

Wonders never cease. 

--Cindy 

---

We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Asteroid collision?

*Asteroid may have hit 250 Million years ago.

National Geographic online also currently has a good article about "Asteroids:  The Greatest Killers?" but I can't relocate it right now and my workday's almost over.

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Another coronal mass ejection!

*Wow.  Aimed squarely at us and considered "strong to extreme."

"Solar storm hits Earth, fuels northern lights."  Woooo-HOOOooo!  You go, baby!

--Cindy

P.S.  Hmmmmm, maybe this is the equivalent of solar indigestion.  Sol, how do you spell relief?

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Echus_Chasma

Member

From: Auckland, New Zealand

Registered: 2002-12-15

Posts: 190

Website

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

Hmmmmm, maybe this is the equivalent of solar indigestion.  Sol, how do you spell relief?

Comet size Quikeze

It's a bit old but it kinda fits with the joke.

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[url]http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?Echus[/url]

Palomar

Member

From: USA

Registered: 2002-05-30

Posts: 9,734

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

*Hey Echus!  Glad to have you as a member of the Mars Society! 

Great article!

As for rearranging the date...  :laugh:  I recall the first time I saw date abbreviation the British way, as a kid:  28/03/75 or something like that.  Whoa.  Mind scramble!!  I figured it out rather quickly, but that was a definite synapse shock, ha ha.

--Cindy

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We all know [i]those[/i] Venusians: Doing their hair in shock waves, smoking electrical coronas, wearing Van Allen belts and resting their tiny elbows on a Geiger counter...

--John Sladek (The New Apocrypha)

Byron

Member

From: Florida, USA

Registered: 2002-05-16

Posts: 844

Re: New Discoveries *2* - ...Extraplanetary, deep space, CONTINUED

*Hey Echus!  Glad to have you as a member of the Mars Society! 

As for rearranging the date...  :laugh:  I recall the first time I saw date abbreviation the British way, as a kid:  28/03/75 or something like that.  Whoa.  Mind scramble!!  I figured it out rather quickly, but that was a definite synapse shock, ha ha.

--Cindy

Actually, the "international" dating system makes perfect sense to me, as it's simply the logical progression of day, month, year.  Why the Americans have to do it differently than the rest of the world is beyond me....lol.

Oh well, I'm one of the three people in the entire U.S. that believe that we need to switch over to the metric system ASAP...so don't take me too seriously....lol. 

B