Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

rustyplanet · 2003-07-07 12:12:15

<a href="http://www.astronexus.com/misc/3dgraphics/venusterra.html">Terraformed Venus Scene</a>

What do you think it would take to do? I definitely think there will be enough of a case to at least put an orbital station around Venus, but terraforming it seems kind of crazy right now. I guess if we scrubbed all of that CO2 out of the 90 000 millibars of atmosphere we would end up with what, like 60 000 millibars of pure oxygen? That might satisfy our life support needs for the next ten thousand years haha.

We would have to have some way of accelerating the rotation. How were the planets originally set spinning during the solar system's formation? It seems odd that Venus spins west to east but I imagine there will exist some technology in the future that would accelerate it. Maybe we could use magnetics or something.

Whatever we do, the first step in any Cytherean terraforming scheme I've seen is to build a giant shade around the day side of the planet. We could freeze the atmosphere to the surface and then get to work, though it would be kind of dark down there.

I don't know, this was just a thought I've been having lately and right now I don't even think it would be possible. I just thought it would be a good distraction to keep the millions of terraformers off Mars and somewhere else where there isn't a five billion year old record. But who knows, I'm sure Venus has its own interesting things to study.

EDIT: Removed the smilies.

prometheusunbound · 2003-07-07 15:15:30

how about the shade serve as a power array? The material could be gathered from asteroids and fashioned into photoelectric arrays. after the planet cools down enough a baterial infection could wipe out a good deal of the co2. . .I think she might be on to something here!

prometheusunbound · 2003-07-07 15:18:06

sorry I'm assuming rustyplanet is female. . .if you are not I sincerely apoligize.

rustyplanet · 2003-07-07 21:41:41

Female?? I certainly hope not! No, I figured redplanet is overused, no one would think of calling Mars THE RUSTY PLANET. That was pretty clever. Rustyplanet was actually a name of a map I made for Quake III (it wasn't very good). As for me being on to something, I think that all the planets in the solar system could be colonized. Terraforming Mars is a much closer possibility right now, but some day Venus won't be so far off either. So far, the biggest problem is the 243 Terran day rotation, but we could fix that. Like Mars though, I think we should spend at the very least fifty years studying Venus in its primal state before we even start debating terraforming.

rustyplanet · 2003-07-13 18:32:52

Ah dang it I didn't mean to discourage anyone from talking about terraforming Venus! I just meant we shouldn't actually follow through with anything for a long time.

space_psibrain · 2003-07-24 01:09:20

I believe that a Dyson Motor could be used to change the planet's rotation, and perhaps its tilt.

space_psibrain · 2003-07-24 19:45:33

Loosely described, you coil wire around a planet and surround it with a cloud of generators to induce elecrical currents, which would project a magnetic field. Altering the angle and such of the cloud of generators would cause thje cloud field to interact with the planet field, and slowly but surely, would be able to speed up or slow down a planet

For a better description, see Terraforming: Engineering Planetary Environments by Martin Fogg.

rustyplanet · 2003-07-25 11:03:28

So it's kind of like when the terraformers in Blue Mars wrapped magnetic rails along the lines of latitude and placed a giant magnet in orbit?

space_psibrain · 2003-07-25 16:38:55

Sorta like that...

Earthfirst · 2003-09-24 17:42:25

Venus is just to hot, go to Mercury , it has the same gravity as mars, nice and cool on the dark side, has water ice, rick in rare earth metals like gold, mercury,nickel,titanium,tellurium,platinum, osmium, a miners delight. Since it fromed so close to the sun it would be richer in all the rare earth metals. It starnge People at so suciced by mars and venus and forget about minearal rich Mercury.
It to has all the things needed for a colony, water to drink and make air, nice and sunny !!! and no thick atmosphere like venus. On the dark side it protected from solar flares, even on mars the proctecting is to as good. Plus its low gravity is good at cheaply lunching ore to earth.
I say Mercury or bust, a investure could make a lot of money off a mercury colony. Mining, trade, and tourism!

~Eternal~ · 2003-09-25 12:08:05

I like Kim Robinsons idea up until the robots part.
When you think of it, Venus will just take longer than Mars,
it actually wouldn't be that difficult.
I personally would like to see some theories on Mercury "terraformation" besides my own.

Earthfirst · 2003-10-01 19:04:24

I think the best way to terraform venus is to first cool it off by using a gaint sun shade in orbit. Once venus has cooled down, use a ice moon fron the outer solar system to create a golbal ocean on venus, by slaming it into venus. All that water would turn the co2 into carbonic acide which would react the venus rock to from carbonite rocks, this it what keep earth co2 level from getting too high when there was no photosyntic life. The water would disolve a lot of the thick atmosphere down closer to earth pressure of 1 bar instead of 90 bars. Once there are seas let a little light in and add algea to make a oxyen atmospere we can breath. Pretty soon venus will look a lot like earth with blue skys and green seas.
Thats my idea, what do you think?

atitarev · 2003-11-02 21:15:29

I personally think, we don't need to cool down Venus first. Then you have to do something with liquid/solid CO2 - bury or ship away. Rather than wasting time on this, Venus should be rid of the excess atmosphere, filtering only CO2 and CO. When Venus has less atmosphere it'lll cool down by itself, at least on the night side. The day side will continue to be fried until the rotation is sped up. But at this time human missions and colonization will become possible. (I am not a scientist, I am only telling what I think should be done but not how).

At this stage Venus may have a mainly nitrogen atmosphere (it's about 2-3 bars of nitrogen on Venus right now). If the pressure is down to 3-5 bars, I think human settlement will become possible and terraforming will be easier.

This guy (Paul Birch) has ideas about spinning up (and even moving) planets, here's the link: Paul Birch's page (spinning and moving planets!) (look for "How To Spin A Planet"). This can applied both to Venus and Mercury (if it works!).

Hazer · 2003-11-04 14:26:22

Mercury? Maybe as a giant industrial facility, but you'd never want to live there. Solar storms would play merry hell with your equipment. Think of it as Mars, except it's harder to live on.

atitarev · 2003-11-04 15:53:09

Hazer, have you read my note? I meant Mercury if it was shifted further from the Sun and spun up to rotate faster (if it's possible). That's what the link is about.

Mercury is one of the few candidates for terraforming but it's too close to the Sun, so if the technique for shifting and spinning up planets is developed, then Mercury should not be neglected.

Hazer · 2003-11-05 01:38:03

Shifting a planet's orbit could prove next to impossible-without some major force (A meteor the size of South America perhaps?).

atitarev · 2003-11-05 04:15:02

Shifting a planet's orbit could prove next to impossible-without some major force (A meteor the size of South America perhaps?).

It's not the method proposed in that link, Hazer. It might be impossible but I can't judge - I had difficulty understanding. There are various methods discussed on different sites about shifting planets. For example, here's another one advocating this approach, easier to read but less details and proof: Shifting of the Planets to New Orbits

~Eternal~ · 2003-11-15 18:01:26

I see Venus as the beginning start for terraformation of ANY Helelio-Orbit object.
I'm sure we could use the 89 extra bars for Terraformation of all the planets/moons besides Mercury.

Digital_Wolf v.2 · 2004-01-03 20:39:01

i would think, and i'm not a smart ass person either, if we used nano tech and genetically engineered bacteria to clean up venuses atmosphere.

*get ready to get flammed*

Hazer · 2004-01-07 01:34:04

Venus is covered with lots of acids correct?
Then it would seem that the best way to terraform Venus is with MASSIVE chemical reactions (We'll need to tow asteroids for this one).
Venus has lots of volatiles. Use them.
React the acids away, and get lots of water.

A thought on cooling Venus: To cool it, we could cause the equivalent of an extreme nuclear winter.

kippy · 2004-01-30 16:16:24

I just had an idea for changing the length of the day on Venus. I don't know how feasible this is so feel free to poke holes in it.

The basic idea is to use a series of rail guns beneath the surface to increase the angular velocity of the planet. For rail gun information look here: [http://home.insightbb.com/~jmengel4/rai … intro.html]http://home.insightbb.com/~jmengel4/rai … intro.html

For example, say there are two such guns on opposing sides of the planet on the equator each pointing in the direction of the planet's rotation. Given a source of power like the sun or some other power source you can harness on Venus, you can power the electromagnets needed in the guns.

Then let's say you fire them both at the same instant. You push the first slug toward the first magnet, it accelerates toward the magnet, hits it and sends the second slug to the second magnet with the speed it gained from the 1st magnet's pull. That faster slug accelerates further toward the second magnet and this continues until the final slug. At this point, the last slug has picked up quite a bit of momentum.

If that slug hits a pusher plate (and doesn't destroy it) it will transfer that impulse into the planet. The slugs can fall back to their ground state with the magnets off and you can start again. The energy of the magnets is converted into angular velocity thus giving the planet a slightly faster spin.

Now you'd probably have to scale that up with tens of thousands of guns placed at different levels beneath the planet and keep it running for quite a while but I'm pretty sure it would make the world spin faster.

I might have mixed up some physics terms but let me know how that sounds. Combined with a dyson motor, it might convert all that unwanted solar energy into enough angular momentum to give it a 24 hour or longer day. Besides, aren't humans supposed to be wired for a 36 hour day or something?

kippy · 2004-01-30 16:19:40

I should have said Gauss rifle rather than rail gun. Slightly different concepts. Here's a site for Gauss rifles:

[http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/ … gauss.html]http://www.scitoys.com/scitoys/scitoys/ … gauss.html

Rail guns might work with my idea too

DonPanic · 2004-02-13 04:33:22

LO
Let'us suppose Venus has been cooled and added with water.
Why not a mega heavy train with a equatorial railway ?
As the train circles one direction, shouldn't the panet rotates the opposite direction ?

A thought on cooling Venus: To cool it, we could cause the equivalent of an extreme nuclear winter.

We are supposed to terraform, not to poison with radioactivity,
anyways, nuclear winter comes to Earth by masking Sun rays,
and Venus clouds already mask Sun rays, doesn't they ?

Hazer · 2004-02-15 00:13:32

Clouds aren't the same thing as a nuclear winter. Nuclear winters occur when enough dust is hurled into the atmosphere to obscure the sun to the extent that the solar radiation received by the surface/atmosphere is reduced enough to lower the temperature of the atmosphere several degrees.

We are supposed to terraform, not to poison with radioactivity,
anyways, nuclear winter comes to Earth by masking Sun rays,
and Venus clouds already mask Sun rays, doesn't they ?

Are we talking long-term or short-term terraforming? It seems that an extensive nuclear barrage would be the way to induce changes into the atmosphere of Venus in a rather short period of time (Maybe use it to induce huge amounts of volcanic action). As it is now, you could not live on Venus. Radioactivity dies away eventually.
Maybe a better idea would be to pelt it with massive asteroids a la Armageddon.

Kippy, about those subsurface gauss rifles-how do you expect them to be put under the surface to begin with? Venus has enough pressure in its atmosphere to crush quite a few things, and did I mention that it rains ACID on Venus?

As things stand now, moving a planet is...bordering on the absurd.

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#1 2003-07-07 12:12:15

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#2 2003-07-07 15:15:30

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#3 2003-07-07 15:18:06

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#4 2003-07-07 21:41:41

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#5 2003-07-13 18:32:52

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#6 2003-07-24 01:09:20

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#7 2003-07-24 19:45:33

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#8 2003-07-25 11:03:28

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#9 2003-07-25 16:38:55

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#10 2003-09-24 17:42:25

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#11 2003-09-25 12:08:05

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#12 2003-10-01 19:04:24

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#13 2003-11-02 21:15:29

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#14 2003-11-04 14:26:22

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#15 2003-11-04 15:53:09

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#16 2003-11-05 01:38:03

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#17 2003-11-05 04:15:02

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#18 2003-11-15 18:01:26

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#19 2004-01-03 20:39:01

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#20 2004-01-07 01:34:04

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#21 2004-01-30 16:16:24

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#22 2004-01-30 16:19:40

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#23 2004-02-13 04:33:22

Re: Terraforming Venus - methods anyone?

#24 2004-02-15 00:13:32

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