You are not logged in.
I'm not sure this would work on Mars since it would probably have to be inside a Dome an artificial made Lake or maybe use CO2 a complex colony bio dome system with liquid or flowing water to ship product. Maybe another world is better for example 'Titan' feels like a world not too unlike Earth a world for flowing liquids and ships and aircraft and submarine...but if you had a Reactor on Mars or Titan let's discuss a scifi fringe subject 'Fusion' then maybe on another offworld colony Titan the Steamboat would work. The history of Steamboats are culturally connected to the United States of America. The Titan surface was virtually unknown before US international mission and the arrival of the Cassini–Huygens probe the Titan steamboat would use the most current innovative designs. Any mix of Oxygen could be a danger Titan would be resource rich with hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons, look at the Sea the Titan Spectrometer confirmed the presence of liquid ethane. Mars, Europa, Titan might be a science rush of innovation, the 'Cassini-Huygens' topic I believe had hundreds of replies and 150,000 + views it is one of the most viewed threads on newmars...maybe even more before the 'crash' newmars posters expect it to have a human colony or some robot colony. Titan would be a new sea and land to explore, might have pillars of Salts hydrogen cyanide, butane, nitrogen and argon, Benzene is expected to fall like snow the lakes and rivers and seas would be a mix of Mountains of Hard Water-Ice, it could rain Methane ice, and then underneath a liquid methane/nitrogen mix, Rivers could be used as colony transport and delivery of goods, Docks would be created as there could be a risk of getting stuck in 'muds' similar to 'Clays'. The NASA ESA lander initially reported that the surface was similar to wet clay, Saturn's Moon has maria and the small ones marked on new maps from NASA as lacus or Lake
The Titan Boat would be propelled primarily by steam power, you could also call it a 'steamship' vessel it would move around the alien world typically driving propellers or paddlewheels. Maybe offworld colonies would be a place of Space-Tourism on Earth a ship Sky Wonder last steam-powered cruise also know as Atlantic Star, FairSky or Sky Princess, steam ships still operate on Earth, Belle of Louisville winners.
https://www.wave3.com/2022/05/05/belle- … boat-race/
and with human colony hopefully comes innovation, maximum use of local resources.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-09 18:16:38)
Offline
For Mars_B4_Moon ...
First, best wishes for success with this new topic ...
Second, I'm looking forward to seeing what Calliban (and other engineers) might do with this concept.
My first reaction was surprise, but perhaps there is something to work with in your concept.
(th)
Offline
When normal people today hear what news reports they are perhaps less concerned with space exploration if they recently hear the word 'Titan' they might think of the 'submersible implosion' even NASA is thinking submarine today but that is a risking expensive move. Titan for people following news on Earth offers a grim failure image near the Titanic and when space fans think of the offworld site Titan they might think of Cassini's lander on Saturn's Moon or they might also think of a possible concept for Submarine from NASA. If you think logically about this why would you launch a complex underwaters sub mission when you can launch a craft to explore the liquid surface, on Titan you can have a series of steam boat ships to first map out the surface of Titan's Lakes, Rivers and Seas. There is a Dragonfly flying misson but how much of the sub surface can it image, the Sub-Surface of Titan is an unknown so I would argue and give my opinion that launching Steamboats mapping the sub surface with radar would is wiser before you launch any submarine mission.
This was NASA's article 2014 'Titan Submarine'
https://www.nasa.gov/content/titan-subm … of-kraken/
Tahanson, I hope there is something to my concept if others can visualize it or hear the ship unfold and come off its Mapping Ship and Titan lander because sometimes I feel like I have moments of inspiration. Some people maybe write a poem or a short story but I think it is nice to try and see a future ship as people to to see in scifi books and movie. I would be concerned about the power source, I would be concerned about the medium it pushes through or material a ship has to move through and the payload future spaceships like Starship or Space-X would deliver something significant, I would think both 'Ice Breaker' and steamboat. Cassini-Huygens was a successful mission of Nuclear Power exploration, it was RTG orbiter with a short lived lander and lasted 19 years, I believe it was a payload over 12,500 lbs or 5669.9 kg the mission launched on a Titan rocket with Centaur upper stage, the Huygens was a small craft of 320 kg 710 lb, the Steamboat would be a much larger payload.
Expect Space-Tourism on Titan only after we see villages on the Earth's Moon and Planet Mars.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-09 17:39:14)
Offline
From Cassini Data we can perhaps build computer models, try to model Titan like on Earth and see a surface wind that blows predominantly from a particular direction but with Steampower you can fight against flows of waters and against the winds.
We do not know enough about the Waters and Lakes and River and Seas of Titan but Titan's Atmosphere is 1.88 grams per cubic cm. The power source would be large and significant, the amount of waters it moved would be large. On Titan a tourist would explore a smaller world but the pressure is about 1.45 atm, which is denser than Earth's I would imagine the mechanism for moving liquid in a craft to be large like the mouth of a Blue Whale or Mississippi steamboat design. Wind and Water flows might be significant the density of air on Titan is enough for an astronaut man to be able to fly with Icarus wings therefore the vessel must also resist both liquid flow and air it could be narrow like a Rowing ship or Canoe or like a Nascar or Formula One is Aero Dynamic, it might even use technology from outrigger sailboats but because weather on Titan is significant it would perhaps be in AI communication with orbiting satellite, it might not even need a sail but instead use propellers or paddlewheels or if the vessel landed is light and the wind strong perhaps the steamboat could deploy a sky sail and allow itself to be lifted by winds and land itself to another part of the Sea and land perhaps using a powered parachute mechanism but I think the concept of 'steamboat' is enough to work on. The Chemistry a Steamboat crossing Lake and facing weather in Titan's atmosphere might be troublesome in weather events of Summer or Winter, Hard Chunks of Water Ice falling and hitting like Stones during bad weather, particles of Carbon Monoxide, Ethane, Methylacetylene, Hydrogen Cyanide, Diacetylene, Acetylene, Condensation of Propane, Condensation of Carbon Dioxide, contributions of waters over centuries perhaps from cometary impacts, there is a vibrant weather system perhaps with extreme seasons and Methane cycle, a ship might see significant events such as land flows into the sea, measure quakes or see cryovolcanism.
Here is a similar but different mission to what I am trying to visualize
Titan Mare Explorer (TiME)
http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 … -alien-sea
Uses 0.8 kg plutonium-238
However it is not a steamboat.
Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-09 18:09:30)
Offline
For Mars_B4_Moon ....
I am monitoring the online part of this evening's 3D printer meeting ... we have folks on site, but so far I am the only online attendee....
This gives me time to (at least try) to encourage you to extend your thought a bit ...
Something must have inspired you with the idea of propulsion by steam on Titan ....
It is possible your strengths are in areas like vast knowledge of literature and history and cultures.
Principles of engineering may not be one of your strengths ... happily we have folks in the forum who can provide that background.
Can you share a bit more of your thinking about how a vessel designed to "sail" on the hydrocarbon "seas" of Titan would work?
(th)
Offline
Conversation is continuing at a good clip at the 3D Printer meeting .... and I have time to look up the liquids on Titan ...
Per Google ...
About 9,210,000 results (0.58 seconds)
Additionally, Titan's rivers, lakes and seas of liquid methane and ethane might serve as a habitable environment on the moon's surface, though any life there would likely be very different from Earth's life.In Depth | Titan - NASA Solar System Exploration
NASA Solar System Exploration (.gov)
https://solarsystem.nasa.gov › moons › saturn-moons › i...
About featured snippets
•
Feedback
People also ask
What liquids are on Titan?
What are the liquid seas on Titan probably made of?
Saturn's largest moon is covered in seas and lakes of liquid hydrocarbons – and one sea has now been found to be filled with pure methane, with a seabed covered by a sludge of organic-rich material, and possibly surrounded by wetlands.Apr 26, 2016Profile of a methane sea on Titan - ESA
The principle of steam engine operation is phase change of a material. On Earth that material was (and may still be) water. On Titan, the liquid that is available in abundance is methane (along with other hydrocarbons). Here is where the engineering insights would be helpful... It should be possible to discover the capability of methane to play the role of water in a "steam" power plant. It seems possible to me that materials developed on Earth for water steam engines might work quite well on Titan, although there may be concerns about material strength in the temperature regime at work here.
The source of heat for this concept would seem (to me at least) most likely to be a simple fission power plant. The steam engine concept on Earth was an open cycle, and that would work perfectly well on Titan, if thermal energy is abundant, as would be the case with a fission power plant.
(th)
Offline
For Mars_B4_Moon ....
Your initiative with this new topic inspired me today to offer a new topic for open cycle steam engines on Mars.
It seems to me the principle of open cycle phase change of liquid methane to gas should work well as a way to convert simple thermal energy into mechanical motion. It seems likely to me that engineers on Earth will be using the Seebeck effect to obtain direct electrical energy, despite the low efficiency of the method, and very likely some form of the Stirling Engine, since Titan will provide a terrific heat sink.
If the need is to generate massive amounts of mechanical energy, then an open cycle "steam" engine might seem worth considering for Titan.
Update a bit later .... if efficiency is a concern, then it would appear that Stirling Engines may win the competition at low power levels. I just found a Wikipedia page that asserts that 40% efficiency is possible with a Stirling Engine. I'm assuming that performance varies as thermal gap increases, within the range that is possible with materials that can exist.
However, for raw, massive power, the huge scale possible with the technology for which this topic is named will surely win attention in future centuries.
I would like to see this concept of yours developed as science fiction stories or movies.
I've never indulged in it, but there was (?is) a genre of science fiction called "Steam Punk" that might be a perfect fit for your topic here.
(th)
Offline