New Mars Forums

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,831

PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

I think that this type of device could be important on Earth and Mars and elsewhere of course.  It is related to other things we speak of here.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/ea … cal-device
Quote:

PEC devices are photo-electrochemical devices that extract electrical energy from light, including sunlight1234. They have great potential to eliminate the intermittency issue of the solar energy supply1. Each PEC device consists of one or two semiconducting photoelectrodes and also auxiliary metal and reference electrodes immersed in an electrolyte23. PEC devices can convert sunlight directly to hydrogen fuel

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technolo … r-AA1ceHR7  Quote:

Scientists think they may have cracked life support for Martian occupation
Story by Lindsay Clark • 15h ago

A video from "The Electric Viking": https://www.bing.com/videos/riverview/r … 441BDB65ED  Quote:

A New Type Of Solar Cell Creates Hydrogen, Oxygen and Heat at scale
YouTubeThe Electric Viking9.6K views1 day ago

Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Heat could be useful on many worlds, and that of course includes Earth.

He further indicates that a direction is also being taken to work with CO2, which may yield Hydrocarbon fuels.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-06-07 20:39:20)

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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,440

Re: PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

For Void re New Topic!

Best wishes for success with this new topic!

It seems to have potential for significant development over time.

The technology ** also ** appears to be within the reach of average persons, after it becomes available in packages that are affordable, much as solar panels have become.

(th)

Calliban

Member

From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 3,796

Re: PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

PEC devices are photo-electrochemical devices that extract electrical energy from light, including sunlight1234. They have great potential to eliminate the intermittency issue of the solar energy supply1. Each PEC device consists of one or two semiconducting photoelectrodes and also auxiliary metal and reference electrodes immersed in an electrolyte23. PEC devices can convert sunlight directly to hydrogen fuel

Rather like plants.  These convert electromagnetic radiation into stored chemical fuels.  They also reproduce themselves and do not need to be manufactured.

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"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,440

Re: PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

For Calliban re #3

It is good to see your first (hopefully of many) contribution to this new topic.

You have identified the complementary pairing that makes the development of this technology attractive.

Plants produce oxygen.

The devices appear to have the ability to produce hydrogen.

I am eager to be corrected, but at present, and untll corrected, I believe that NO plant that exists on Earth today produces Hydrogen.

I offer two items of evidence:

First, by far the weaker of the two, I have never heard of such plants.

Second, by far the stronger, if there ** were ** such a plant it would have been identified and cultivated long ago, and there would be multi-billionaires running gigantic corporations to harvest it.

However, with your greater store of knowledge and wide experience, you may well be able to report the existence of such a plant.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,440

Re: PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

For all active members ....

This new topic offers us an opportunity to collect knowledge and insight that would be helpful to a future reader.

I am ** very ** interested in knowing, for example, if hydrogen ** is ** produced at a stage in the life cycle of some plants. The device described in the opening post of this topic might (possibly) be implemented in a plant using genetic engineering.

Obviously such plants need to be kept separate from oxygen producing plants, but the advantage, as Calliban points out, is that the existing nature-developed self-manufacturing system for plants would be an attractive option for this new technology.

To the best of my knowledge, we do not presently have a domain expert in this area, so I would like to extend an invitation to anyone (on Earth or otherwise) to join the forum and help this new topic to develop in a productive and useful way.

See the Recruiting topic for procedure.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,440

Re: PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

To try to get the ball rolling, to implement Calliban's suggestion in the Real Universe, here is a snapshot from Google:

Carbohydrates in plant immunity and plant protection: roles ... - NCBI
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › pmc › articles › PMC4219568
In plants, carbohydrates produced by photosynthesis are well known for their essential role as vital sources of energy and carbon skeletons for organic ...

From my ** very ** limited knowledge, plants take in water and carbon dioxide, and make carbohydrates and liberate oxygen.

Is there a genetic engineering pathway that would catch the hydrogen before it is combined with carbon?  We certain;ly need plants that capture carbon, but there is plenty of land area on Earth (and entire ocean surfaces) where plants to make hydrogen would be useful.  A way to dispose of the oxygen would be helpful. Otherwise it will just combine with the hydrogen shortly after leaving the plant.

(th)

Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,831

Re: PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

It is very nice for you to stop by (th).

The idea is in infancy, so perhaps will have room to improve. 

I will note that it has the potential for donor areas globally to sell energy to buyers.

Cases for it's use could be continental arid and semi-arid areas where the heat is winter value.  Seasonal thermal storage is not out of the question for it.

Also mid latitude deserts might use the heat to recycle water.

Warm water is desirable for most people.

If it were done on Mars, it would require bitter concentrator mirrors, but gravity being .38 g then that is favorable.  The wind conditions for Mars are favorable as well.  The dust conditions are not favorable.  For this type of artificial photosynthesis, UV is friendly not a problem.

In orbital circumstances g forces are much less a problem, wind is no problem, dust is unlikely.

Should a disk-shaped mirror be spun, then you may have suitable g forces at the perimeter as an option.  You might make a synthetic gravity machine in the form of such a mirror.  The mirror itself could be a radiative condenser for a heat engine.

UV again in orbit is then friendly not a problem.

I can imagine that this could be a very good type of habitat to put in places that can donate water and CO2, like Mars, and typically small objects further away from the sun.  It is also possible that Venus could give all the organics needed for such stations.

Even though this is an artificial photosynthesis machine it would be quite possible to include sun-lit greenhouses here and there on the structure at various levels of g force.

Done

Last edited by Void (2023-06-08 10:42:32)

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Void

Member

Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,831

Re: PEC devices (photo-electrochemical devices)

My apologies, I did not notice the additional posts (th), or the nice post from Calliban.  Thanks members good stuff.

Done

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