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#1 2021-01-10 09:13:46

tahanson43206
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Registered: 2018-04-27
Posts: 16,402

Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

This new topic is offered in hopes there is interest in testing the ideas of RobertDyck (and others) for the ideal atmosphere to be created and sustained in habitats on Mars, as well as in the open spaces of the Large Ship which is under preliminary development in the Large Ship topic.

I invite RobertDyck (in particular) to contribute a post to this topic, re-stating the mixture of gases he recommends, and the pressure to be maintained, as well as the reasons for the recommendation.

Links to the related posts in other topics would work as well, and less typing would be involved.

RobertDyck has identified a possible location for a Mars Habitat Simulation on the slope of Mount Everest, at an existing base camp.

There are many advantages to this proposed site, not least of which is the existing infrastructure created to support Mount Everest climbs.

(th)

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#2 2021-01-10 10:05:45

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,595

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

reposts as to development of topic

tahanson43206 wrote:

Still on the subject of food preparation at Mars Habitat pressure, here is a snippet that Google came up with .... I'd been getting all sorts of unrelated guesses (by the AI) as to what I was asking, but in this case, the guess included the exact information i was seeking ...

NWS JetStream - Air Pressure
www.weather.gov › jetstream › pressure
Therefore, the air pressure is the same in the space station as the earth's ... level from one location to another, especially when the elevations of each site differ. ... Weather maps showing the pressure at the surface are drawn using millibars. ... So, while the average altitude of the 500 millibar level is around 18,000 feet ...

I've been looking for a location on Earth where the proposed Mars Habitat pressure (and the corresponding Large Ship pressure) could be tested in safety on Earth, without having to invest in expensive vacuum equipment.

It would appear that a mountain that reaches 18,000 feet is a candidate location.

Something that relates to this is the observation I noticed in several citations that pressure at a mountain top varies with the weather, just as it does at sea level, but the range of variation (apparently) can be more extreme.  Several citations made the point that pressure at a location (such as a mountain top)_is also determined by temperature.

A Mars habitat, or the Large Ship would (presumably) be engineered to try to hold pressure and gas mixtures to a fairly tight specification.

Apparently there are only two mountains in the United States that meet the measure, and they are both in Alaska ...

Home > United States > United States Geography > Mountain Peaks in the United States Higher Than 14,000 Feet

Cite
Mountain Peaks in the United States Higher Than 14,000 Feet

The following table lists the mountain peaks in the U.S. that surpass 14,000 feet, along with their height and their state.
Name     State     Height
(ft.)
Denali 1     Alaska     20,320
Mt. St. Elias     Alaska     18,008
Mt. Foraker     Alaska     17,400
Mt. Bona     Alaska     16,500
Mt. Blackburn     Alaska     16,390
Mt. Sanford     Alaska     16,237
Mt. Vancouver     Alaska     15,979
South Buttress     Alaska     15,885
Mt. Churchill     Alaska     15,638
Mt. Fairweather     Alaska     15,300
There are quite a few more in this list ...

Here is a snippet from a table of mountains in Canada ...

Rank     Mountain peak     Province     Mountain range     Elevation     Prominence     Isolation     Location
1     Mount Logan[1][2][e]      Yukon     Saint Elias Mountains     5956 m
19,541 ft     5247 m
17,215 ft     623 km
387 mi     60.5671°N 140.4055°W

2     Mount Saint Elias[3][4][f]      Alaska
Yukon     Saint Elias Mountains     5489 m
18,009 ft     3429 m
11,250 ft     41.3 km
25.6 mi     60.2927°N 140.9307°W

3     Mount Lucania     Yukon     Saint Elias Mountains     5260 m
17,257 ft     3080 m
10,105 ft     43 km
26.7 mi     61.0215°N 140.4661°W

If Mount Saint Elias had a visitor cabin at or near the summit, it could serve as a test site for Mars Habitat cooking.

The cold of the environment would be a reasonable match for the Mars environment as well.

Edit: I listened to the City State competition presentation again (Video 35) and caught another aspect of cooking to think about ...

The presenter offered the suggestion that taste may be impacted by reduced atmospheric pressure.  I've not heard of that before.  My general impression is that meals served on air liners at altitude are as enjoyable as they are at sea level.  Still, it is probably worth keeping the possibility in mind. 

Edit#2: From the Wikipedia citation on Mount Saint Elias ...

Mount Saint Elias is infrequently climbed today, despite its height, because it has no easy route to the summit and because of its prolonged periods of bad weather (mainly snow and low visibility).[citation needed]

It might be a whole lot simpler to just make a vacuum chamber in a nice location at sea level.

On the other hand, a test kitchen ** could ** be delivered to the top (or near the top) of the mountain, and personnel could be airlifted in and out.

Google came up with this:

Turbine-engined helicopters can reach around 25,000 feet. But the maximum height at which a helicopter can hover is much lower - a high performance helicopter like the Agusta A109E can hover at 10,400 feet.

Oh well !!!

(th)

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#3 2021-01-10 10:07:10

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
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Posts: 28,595

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

RobertDyck wrote:

Pressure cooker recipes, with experimental results. Includes mashed potatoes and baked potato.
Instant Pot & Pressure Cooker Recipes

tahanson43206 wrote:

For RobertDyck re #561

Thanks for the link to the web site this interesting couple put together!  I hope there are forum readers who are inspired to try some of those recipes!

I find myself bemused by the constant use of the word "Instant" when most recipes seem to run for an hour or more, but figure that might represent a reduction of cooking time without pressure.

In any case, it ** does ** seem reasonable (to me at least) to suppose cooking with pressure cookers would not be a major problem for ship kitchen staff or for Mars residents.  However, you are (as far as I know) the first person to take the issue on, in the context of either transportation to Mars, or living situation there.

I have no experience with pressure cookers, other than having seen them in stores.  I would imagine that in the case of Mars, it might be possible to set the cooker to Earth standard pressure, so that cooking times would the same as the Earth recipe.

Here I am venturing away from the need for pressure equal to Earth, by asking (out loud since I don't know) if roasting might take the same amount of time in a 1/2 bar atmosphere as it does in a 1 bar atmosphere.

Moisture would leave the roast more rapidly than it would on Earth, and that might not be all that helpful.

I asked Google, and it came up with a site that appears to offer reassurance about roasting ...

https://www.eatright.org/homefoodsafety … -altitudes

Add a Quarter
Moist heating methods for meat and poultry, such as boiling, simmering or braising, will take up to 25 percent more cooking time. For example, if you are simmering a roast at 325°F that would usually take two hours to cook at sea level, that same roast cooked at high altitudes at 325°F would require 2½ hours of cook time. Increasing cook time does not apply to oven-roasted meat or poultry; oven temperatures remain unaffected in high altitudes. Use sea-level cooking instructions for oven baking.

Increase Cook Time, Not Heat
Hiking up the temperature while boiling foods will not cook food faster. The liquid will simply boil away more quickly and food will dry out. The temperature of a boiling liquid cannot exceed its own boiling point, except when using a pressure cooker. Instead, increase the cook time.

Cover Your Food
Retain moisture in meat and poultry products or any boiled food by tightly covering the pan during cooking. To continue to keep foods moist, cover dishes after cooking.

Use a Food Thermometer
To avoid undercooking or overcooking meat, poultry and leftovers, especially in a high altitude environment, use a food thermometer to confirm internal temperature.

High altitude influences all forms of cooking from using a fryer, pressure cooker or wok to microwaving foods. Consult the USDA Food Safety and Inspection Service's guidelines for safe cooking at high altitudes for specific instructions for various methods of cooking.


Tags HomeFoodSafety Four Steps Cook

There is an interesting hint there that even pressure cooker recipes need to be adjusted for altitude.

This digression could lead to an entire topic devoted to cooking at Mars Standard Habitat Pressure.

Such an atmosphere could be simulated on Earth, and recipes tested by experienced professional cooks.

Perhaps the day will come when it would make sense to invest in such a study.

Edit #1: ... A quick check with Google confirmed that the atmospheric pressure at the top of Mount Everest is well under half of sea level pressure.

That means that there are likely to be a number of sites around the world where exact matching air pressure is possible, between the 1/2 bar Standard Habitat Pressure recommended for Mars and whatever is found on land at a suitable site.

The only requirement would be to add enough oxygen to reach the 2.7 psi value recommended by RobertDyck.

(th)

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#4 2021-01-10 10:08:53

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,595

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

RobertDyck wrote:

Cooking will be done indoors, at controlled temperatures. But there has been some work re cooking at altitude, you could Google that.

By the way, first location that comes to mind is Mount Everest base camp. Not the summit. I believe base camp has a building of some sort. Altitude 5600 metres = 18,372 feet.


Water boils @ 81.01°C = 177.88°F at 18,000 feet.

tahanson43206 wrote:

For RobertDyck re #578 ... Now! You're talking!  Excellent!  And! The government of Nepal is likely to welcome tourist dollars.

And! (inspired by movies of Everest climbs) ... the aura of being a Mars training location might appeal to the people of Nepal.

It ** should ** certainly appeal to the leaders of China, who are already thinking about setting up shop on Mars.

***
Regarding your point about cooking indoors .... somehow you've missed the point I tried to make earlier ...

The "indoors" you've specified will be maintained at .5 bar.  The cooking will be done at the equivalent of Earth 18,000 feet.

A pressure cooker might be able to bring pressure up to Earth sea level, which would allow for Earth equivalent cooking times where pressure is a factor.

I'm still not clear on how pressure affects roasting.  One reference I found suggested it is NOT a factor.

It would be helpful for your chef advisor to know what (they) are going to be dealing with.  It is a minor challenge to be operating at only .38G.  It is likely to be much more than a miner annoyance to be condemned to .5bar for ** life **.

(th)

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#5 2021-01-10 10:11:08

SpaceNut
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

The location gives more than an experiment for cooking and atmospheric pressure as it also allows for the air mixture testing required for Mars in a simulated environment.

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#6 2021-01-10 11:33:18

tahanson43206
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Posts: 16,402

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

For SpaceNut re #5 (and earlier reposts) ...

Thanks for your support of this new topic ... It should be of interest to Dr. Zubrin at some point.

One of the recent convention videos mentioned the 1/2 Bar atmosphere as a standard they would adopt for their habitats.

This was (no doubt) without their having been given a chance to read the writings by RobertDyck ... It's interesting to me to see at least two independent minds arriving at the same conclusion.

A key difference is that whereas RobertDyck is very specific about the partial pressure of Oxygen he recommends, the video presentation was NOT specific. The presenter only indicated there would be enough Oxygen to the residents would be "comfortable".  "Comfort" on Mars (or in the Large Ship) would involve at least 2.7 psi.  The specific partial pressure recommendation by RobertDyck (as I remember it) was chosen so that when residents donned their Mars suits, the gas pressure inside the suit would be 3 psi of pure Oxygen.  As I remember RobertDyck's argument, if the suit leaks down to 2.7 psi, the resident would be back to habitat partial pressure.

I can easily imagine habitat residents playing with the Oxygen control, the way Earth citizens are wont to play with the temperature control in office buildings.

Edit#1: Come to think of it, Mars suit wearers might adjust the amount of Oxygen they experience inside the suit depending upon circumstances ... They might drop the pressure during periods of low activity, and raise it during active periods.

(th)

Last edited by tahanson43206 (2021-01-10 11:35:48)

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#7 2021-01-10 16:02:01

SpaceNut
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Thats the pure oxygen atmosphere and that is bad due to fire risk.

Gw Johnson wrote:

If it was air (synthetic air) 20.9% O2 and 78.1% N2,  the oxygen mass percentage is 23.15%,  which means the nitrogen mass percentage is 76.85%.

So if earth is 14.7 psi and we are looking at a 1/2 way point then the mix still needs a simular 21% of oxygen ratio the half psi in that portion in the half some want the percentage to double to 42% but we desire just 3.0 psi of oxygen.

A 3.0/(14.7/2)= 0.4081... or 41%

Chose a mix of gasses to get to the PSI desired in argon, helium, nitrogen where the level of nitrogen is reduced to allow for no waiting to get into a space suit or to come back in.

https://sstsensing.com/o2-sensor-workin … -pressure/

But what matters is blood oxygen.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK493219/

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#8 2021-01-10 18:34:32

RobertDyck
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Air mixture:
I start with a spacesuit designed for Mars, then ensure the habitat allows going outside in said spacesuit easily and quickly. That means zero prebreathing.

Partial pressure oxygen on Earth at sea level is 3.0782 psi. One post on the old forum from 1999 cited an Air Force study that pilots could breathe 2.5 psi pure oxygen indefinitely and continue to operate an aircraft if they had high altitude training. They found 3.0 psi pure oxygen was enough for anyone, not just those in their prime and without high altitude training. Ok, so use 3.0 psi pure oxygen for the Mars spacesuit. Dr Dava Newman of MIT said developing an MCP spacesuit for 20 kPa pressure is easy, 30 kPa is hard. Ok so use 20 kPa. Easy is good. And 3.0 psi = 20.684 kPa.

Extreme low pressure can cause a problem with lungs drying out. To prevent that use humidity. But high humidity can cause the visor to fog. Solution is a breathing mask like a jet fighter pilot so air over the eyes has normal humidity.

In the early days of Apollo, NASA intended to use 3.3 psi pure oxygen for spacesuits and 3.0 psi pure oxygen for the Apollo capsule. The justification was the suit could experience 10% pressure loss and it's still what astronauts are used to. They changed it, but the principle applies. So use 2.7 psi partial pressure oxygen in the habitat.

There's a ratio of maximum partial pressure nitrogen to total pressure of the lower pressure environment for zero prebreathe time. From diving decompression studies. I could look up the fancy name, but the number is 1.2:1. So that means for suit pressure of 3.0 psi, maximum partial pressure nitrogen in the habitat is 3.6 psi. I recommend just a little less to stay away from the edge of disaster, so 3.5 psi.

For more pressure you can add helium or argon. Earth's atmosphere is 0.9340% argon, so you're breathing it right now. Mars also has argon, so it's easy to get. There's a limit to argon as well, but we can stay well below that. I had used the ratio of N2:Ar found by Viking 2 lander, but modern Rovers found a different ratio. I hadn't thought N2 or At could vary in Mars atmosphere but it looks like it does. So just keep it simple, add enough so total pressure is 1/2 Earth at sea level. Earth has 14.69595 psi so 1/2 is 7.347974 psi. To calculate At then subtract 2.7 for O2 and 3.5 for N2, gives 1.147974 psi.

Viking 2 measured 2.7% N2, 1.6% Ar. If you use the Viking ratio then 2.074 psi argon. That would increase total pressure a little. Argon is a noble gas, it's safe as long as you don't use too much. But argon will drop the pitch of your voice. Harvesting from Mars atmosphere is easier if you keep the ratio N2:Ar the same as what you start with. But at least one modern measurement showed more Ar than N2. So let's keep it simple.

::Edit:: Skylab used 5 psi with 60% O2 / 40% N2. That works out to partial pressure 3.0 psi O2 / 2.0 psi N2. My recommendation is higher.

Habitat oxygen of 2.7 psi is 90% that of Earth at sea level. Boulder Colorado has 2.54 psi.
2.7 /  7.347974  = 36.74%

Last edited by RobertDyck (2021-01-10 20:05:41)

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#9 2021-01-10 18:58:48

tahanson43206
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

For SpaceNut re gas in Mars suit .... Please note that there is a distinct difference between the atmosphere in the habitat (or aboard RobertDyck's ship) and the space/Mars suit.

The idea is to use pure Oxygen in the suit.  The reason for the atmosphere RobertDyck recommends (as do others) is so the personnel can don a suit and exit the habitat without pre-breathing.

In your post #7 there is a bit of text I hope you will go back and fix, because it will be confusing to readers who (we hope) will want to study this topic.

The amount of oxygen in the habitat WILL NOT be 21%.  It will be closer to 42%

The reason is that RobertDyck is recommending the habitat provide the same partial pressure of Oxygen as humans are used to on Earth, with the adjustment you can see in his post #6 ... RobertDyck recommends 2.7 PSI in the habitat, so the suit will have 3 PSI, and if there is leakage, the human occupant will be comfortable or at least accustomed to 2.7 PSI.

(th)

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#10 2021-01-10 19:39:55

SpaceNut
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

RobertDyck wrote:

Habitat oxygen of 2.7 psi is 90% that of Earth at sea level. Boulder Colorado has 2.54 psi.
2.7 /  7.347974  = 36.74%

Is not a bad estimate for what we might try but a suit leak is from 100% oxygen not a mix.

Fire danger goes up with o2 content in a habitat so while it may be less time to dawn a space suit to go fix something its also harder to stop a fire as it flashes faster....

Nasa has been doing fire suppression experiments with some of the dragon cargo ships that have been filled with garbage when they are being disposed of....

https://www.firehouse.com/rescue/articl … ned-spaces

https://worldbuilding.stackexchange.com … t-for-fire

https://pubs.asahq.org/anesthesiology/a … Room-Fires

https://www.gdscorp.com/blog/space-moni … ed-spaces/

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#11 2021-01-10 19:43:29

RobertDyck
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

36.74% at 1/2 atmosphere pressure is not the same as 36.74% at 1 full atmosphere.

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#12 2021-01-12 07:37:56

tahanson43206
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

If there is a reader of this forum who is from Nepal, or who knows someone who is, please write NewMarsMember * gmail.com.

It appears (as a first impression) that one of the base camps for Mount Everest expeditions in Nepal might be an ideal location for a full scale Mars Analogue Research Station.  The location has the distinct advantage of an atmospheric pressure that is close to that recommended by RobertDyck (and others) for the habitat of a Mars facility, and for the cabins of a Large Ship to carry passengers to and from Mars.

It would be helpful if someone were to contact the Nepalese Embassy to the United States, to explore the possibility of a collaborative effort.

The Mars Society has decades of experience running Mars Analogue sites.  This would be a step up toward ever greater similarity to the Mars experience.

(th)

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#13 2021-01-13 11:04:49

tahanson43206
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Here is a follow up to the suggestion of a true Mars Analogue Research Station at one of the two base camps on Mount Everest...

Google came up with this snippet ... at this point I'm not sure if this camp is in Nepal or China. There is reported to be a base camp in each Nation.

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Everest Base Camp perched on the Khumbu Glacier at the foot of Everest is at an altitude of 5600 metres which is reached over a period of nine days with two complete rest days enroute. In terms of acclimatisation profile it is very feasible as long as you don't go too fast.

How hard is it to trek to Everest Base camp?

To move forward, I would like to see communication with Nepal about an extension of their base to include the Mars Society Research Station.

The altitude of 5,600 meters (estimated) is close to the altitude that RobertDyck recommends for consideration for an atmospheric pressure to be used at Mars for human habitat, and in the Large Ship for transport to and from Mars.

As a reminder for someone reading this post for the first time, RobertDyck recommends the pressure of the habitat to be half that of Earth sea level, so that human residents can exit the habitat, using a suit that supplies 3 psi of Oxygen, without prebreathing.

A test environment similar to the Mount Everest base camp would be helpful to confirm that RobertDyck's recommendation will work for all humans, and not just astronaut candidates or military test pilots.

(th)

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#14 2021-01-13 18:23:20

SpaceNut
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Posts: 28,595

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

The pre-breathing for some may be less but may still need to be a precaution for those which are not as fit as we are still in a mixed gas atmospher when not in the suit.
I agree that simulating a mars environment at high altitude simular to the other analog stations would still be of a benefit to learn just how far we can push technology and life support for man in harsh conditions.
So how would we wrap up a proposal for such a simulation and funding estimates for doing so.
What could be the funding avenues to make it less of a burden to Mars society to venture into going for it.
Would be simulate a mars journey and stay on a long cycle simular to mars with earth return to how we might process them back to civilization after being gone for so long.

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#15 2021-01-13 19:26:47

tahanson43206
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

For SpaceNut re #14

Thank you for thinking about the Mount Everest Research Station idea ...

You've asked helpful questions!   Does anyone among the Registered Membership have a suggestion to move this along?

***
Regarding the atmosphere in the research facility ... It seems to me we would fly personnel in by helicopter, wearing their Mars suits, which would be the real thing.  There would be ** NO ** acclimatization! The assumption is that the atmosphere outside the habitat is NOT breathable.  The habitat  would be provided with extra oxygen to provide the 2.7 psi partial pressure recommended by RobertDyck.

If a particular guest/researcher is not comfortable at 2.7 psi, the partial pressure can be increased to 3, which would be sea level equivalent.

Hopefully we will learn that a broad swath of human guests can handle the 2.7 psi partial pressure inside the habitat.

To exit the habitat, the guests/researchers would don "real" Mars suits, and enjoy 3.0 psi pure Oxygen for the duration of their outside excursion. 

As far as funding goes ... I would hope the government of Nepal would be interested in promoting this project as a way to increase "tourism" to their country.  This would be a facility unlikely to be duplicated except by the Chinese who have their own Mount Everest base station at about the same altitude.

(th)

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#16 2021-01-13 20:47:07

SpaceNut
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Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Such a structure would have an air lock, solar and other alternatives that would be locally created not imported to better simulate a mars deployment.
The shelter could be co-shared by the hikers and a means to gain funding from a local source so long as they use the air lock and compensate food and other such consumed sources while they are there. It could also be used as a hospital to hikers, communications center and so much more as a hiker support location.

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#17 2022-08-08 07:08:19

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,664

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

The cost and physical logistic of a Camp in the mountain sky would make more sense in Canada or Alaska

In another place in Asia, since 2003, mountaineering has been banned in Bhutan, as the ban is unlikely to be lifted anytime soon, Gangkhar Puensum is likely to remain unclimbed.
https://www.dailybhutan.com/article/bhu … al-beliefs

the Mountain has become a political issue of scared and to climb it is disrespecting spiritual beliefs

They are Hindu, Buddhist and Christian but also there is the 'Bon' of Bhutan, from what I have seen of 'Bon' it is neither mainstream Buddhist nor mainstream Hindu but perhaps a mix of both with Native Mountain people religion, there are also 'Bon Deities'.

Moving away from the restriction of Culture bans and Religious untouched site there is a challenge called 7 Summits, the most remote one of the South Pole they go by boat or more typically fly from Chile or Argentina

Union Base a Commercial Base in Antarctica

Firstly access to Post, Guides, the Port, Communications, Food, Repair and Maintenance, Toilets, Medical Facility.

finally a difficult climb but no camping at the top

summit of Vinson Massif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrWZdo26RmY

but to reach the highest camps you will spend much time in Bhutan where they banned climbing, or India, China, Nepal but what else is there? Mount Logan in Canada, Mount Blanc the French Italian Alps, Pico de Orizaba of Mexico, Gunnbjørn Fjeld Greenland known as part of the Kingdom of Denmark, Dufourspitze of the Swiss Italian Alps and and the Pennine Alps, Khüiten Peak marks the border tripoint between Russia, Mongolia, and China, Grossglockner the highest mountain in Austria, Mount Chirripó of Costa Rica, Denali also known as Mount McKinley Alaska, Pico Simón Bolívar of Colombia, Mount Elbrus and Shkhara of the Caucacus and Southern Russia and Georgia, Vinson Massif a large mountain massif in Antarctica.

    Vinson Massif was named after Carl G. Vinson, a US congressman who persuaded the US Government to pledge support for exploration of Antarctica in the 20th century. The mountain was first climbed by a US expedition team sponsored by the American Alpine Club. They reached the summit at 11.30am on 18 December 1966 – the first of many climbing teams who would come to conquer Antarctica’s highest peak.
Adventure Network International first arranged a climb of Vinson Massif in 1984. The expedition was unsuccessful due to weather and engine problems, but in 1985, Adventure Network International organised and completed three successful expeditions. Since the inception of the Vinson Massif climbing program, Adventure Network International has taken over 500 clients to the top of this coveted Seventh Summit.
https://7summits.com/vinson/vinson.htm
Adventure Network was aquired by Antarctic Logistics who continued the services, up til beginning of 2005 about 950 people have summited Mt Vinson.



Maybe Mars one day would be a site to make a show or commercial to advertise the survival hardness of a product
https://archive.org/details/everest-the … icals-1.ts
Commercials from broadcast of Everest The Mountain At The Millennium

They say it has lost over 1,000 meters or 3,280 feet, it was over 10,000 meters high 13 million years ago, but it eventually collapsed because it could not withstand the effects of gravity, weather, and gradually became what it is today.
The pressure on Mars is inherently very low, about 0.75% of atmospheric pressure on Earth

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-08-08 07:26:34)

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#18 2022-09-14 15:07:47

Mars_B4_Moon
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Posts: 8,664

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

So I found this old news article and I almost was not going to post it, but maybe there is something in the news. it was an article in a Nepal website news where they talked about an Airlock and 3D printed designs it mentioned 'Project Airlock Challenge' and a University but something doesn't read correct or look right, imagine following some blogger from British Columbia to Nepal, climbing 12,000 feet just to get scammed, I feel something doesn't sit right with this news article and its probably too good to be true and I do not see any conclusion or discovery or final product. The news item seemed to describe a real thing but you can visit a real place Utah for example 1312m / 4304 feet and find a real group of people doing real science, in Canada, in the Arctic, Antarctica, Europe, but would one need to go all the way to Nepal "to buy a pig in the poke" as the English or Spanish might say, Portuguese  say 'to buy a cat instead of a hare', Malta says 'buy fish in the sea' while Chinese say buy an unknown cow 牛 over there in another far away mountain 山
a thing accepted without first being seen or assessed.

‘Nepal has the potential to pursue world-class research and design’
https://kathmandupost.com/art-culture/2 … and-design
Anwit Adhikari on his passion for design and technology, underscoring both the barriers and the scope within the Nepali education system for engineers.

I don't know if its truly a scam or some scammer thing but something about this news item feels off, the only other place I see this news posted is a weird website called 'euvolution' which talks about political stuff, black lives matter, Ufo topics, Psychic Ouija board stuff, Donald Trump and 'Conscious Evolution' whatever that term is supposed to mean.

https://www.euvolution.com/prometheism- … andu-post/

'Kathmandu', the City, is the capital and the most populous city and Capital of Nepal

Nepal are involved with some amazing climbing they have people operating at Everest Base Camps, they have people who are skilled climbers, they know these conditions and mounatin howling winds and extreme altitudes. They help other people from other countries before climbing the mountain it is a good idea them to improve fitness, they can do team work tasks and training and have a enthusiastic attitude and who know the technical climbing skills, they know the 'Death Zone' at 8,000 meters 26,000 ft  body parts exposed will suffer frostbite, temperature is so low that the ice is an extreme slipping hazard, oxygen levels already only a third of the requirement normally needed to breathe, the human body is dying at this altitude and what these people to to help climbers is amazing, helicopters can't easily reach the summit, it is a mission to survive and not uncommon for people unable to walk will be left to die and what locals do to help climbers is a great support task, the Economy of Nepal is still classed as a developing country and  largely dependent on tourism, getting food to feed itself and remittances, a non-commercial transfer of money by a foreign worker, a member of a diaspora community, they sell dried peas, they sell carpets, they sell types of Tea or sell 'Stones' or sell 'Art' while Foreign Aid to Nepal accounts for more than half of the development budget. South Base Camp is in Nepal at an altitude of 5,364 metres (17,598 ft) Sherpas seem to be hard survivor mountain people, a totally different culture to city people the Food and Equipment are brought to the South Base Camp by Sherpas or porters, with the help of animals like yaks.

The news item in a way links to a Canadian group that links to a University and Saskatchewan and a name 'Celestial Labs' or celestiallaboratories I'm not sure if they did any big event or if the group or company is around anymore

Regina is the capital city of the Canadian province of Saskatchewan.

There is a 'linked in' page
https://www.linkedin.com/company/celestial-laboratories

Samuel Redekop who might also link?
https://ca.linkedin.com/in/samuel-redekop-73b380190

plus a guy called Mr Mathwell who dances plays guitar while teaching math and posting lots of memes
https://www.mrmathwell.com/

a 404 error website ubcmarscolony.wordpress.com and a dead domain link ubcmarscompetition.com


Maybe they did make a genuine effort to test a space habitat but I can not find anything else on the web.

however in many parts of t he world there can be good and not so good people

How to Avoid Travel Scams and Crime in Nepal

Avoid con artists, scammers and crime in Nepal.
https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safe … s-in-nepal
'Here's everything you need to know to stay safe and enjoy your time in the mountains.'

The Biggest Tourist Scam in Nepal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxKcL1kPvv0
and How to Avoid It!

I'm not saying the news is a 'scam' maybe it is maybe it is not,
but if you go to a strange place to make a pit stop before a long journey you must draw upon your life experience and also use your common sense.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-14 15:25:32)

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#19 2022-09-14 20:11:21

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,595

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Well, there is a story for almost everyone including those that cannot tell the truth as they are looking for someone to scam for sure.

Building on the mountain would be a logistic problem but it would give real life numbers for partial atmospheric controls and use.

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#20 2023-05-26 03:24:35

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,664

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Canadian dies on Everest taking death toll to 12, three still missing

https://thehimalayantimes.com/nepal/can … ll-missing

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#21 2023-11-01 05:38:13

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,664

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Himalayas? maybe people in the region could have a discussion of similar Mars Geology of the Himalayan Mountain Range, they also have some 'Bon' with Buddhism and shamanistic belief system some consider Mountains sacred. Thankfully in Bhutan only 0.1% of the population are islamics and any type of islamo stuff or jihadi Sharia Law has no recognition there according to Bhutan constitution. He studied in India, he also a Bachelor of Medicine and Bachelor of Surgery degree from Mymensingh Medical College under the University of Dhaka, Bangladesh and he studied in Australia.

what did they chat about

Bhutan and the United States have no formal diplomatic relations,  the United States is instead represented through the American embassy in New Delhi. Bhutan is a Kingdom, a Unitary semi-constitutional Monarchist system. Bhutan is landlocked between China in the north and India in the south,  despite the harsh conditions for life it has a rich environment and the wildlife of Bhutan is notable for its diversity.

Foreign Minister of Bhutan at NASA HQ
https://images.nasa.gov/details/NHQ202309270103

and politics Deccan Herald an Indian English language newspaper and website founded Hindus and by K. N. Guruswamy, a liquor businessman.

'India on alert as Bhutan, China talk about settling boundary row, establishing diplomatic ties'
https://www.deccanherald.com/india/indi … es-2740175

Bhutan might have banned mountaineering out of respect for the spirits of the mountains, it exports Wood to India, some agricultural products go to China and Electricity - via hydroelectric power to India, the Kingdom of Bhutan measures quality of life by Gross National Happiness (GNH) and 60% of the land must be forest by 'Law' plastic bags have been banned and tobacco is almost totally illegal, Slavery was finally abolished in 1958 it was totally normal to have a slave.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-11-01 05:45:00)

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#22 2023-11-01 20:23:33

SpaceNut
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From: New Hampshire
Registered: 2004-07-22
Posts: 28,595

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

So we will need a plan B on creation of a mars analog station.

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#23 2023-11-02 12:56:52

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,664

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

It depends what kind of project was done on the mountain but if done wrong it would add unnecessary risk which might not apply to a Mars mission.

'Everest Crevasse Fall & Emergency Rescue'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4ZrD7IoFlo

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#24 2023-12-30 14:40:21

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,664

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

highest altitude town has an average life expectancy of 35 La Rinconada, Peru

cyanide toxins and mercury toxins are common

Just because you have the ability to drive here does it mean you should?

La Rinconada is one of the highest towns accessible by car
https://www.dangerousroads.org/south-am … onada.html
La Rinconada is a small mining town at an elevation of 5.130m (16,830ft) above the sea level, located in the Ananea District, San Antonio de Putina Province, in Puno region of Peru.

Travelling along is not recommended due local mafias. Local miners, -forced to live among garbage, without electricity and sewage, among excruciating nauseating stinks-, refine the ore by grinding and treating it with mercury and pressing the mass through a cloth to filter it. The resulting amalgam is heated, to remove the mercury. The living conditions are terrifying: it lacks plumbing and sanitation systems and the only source of drinking water in the city comes from lakes contaminated by mercury.

5,100 m  or 16,700 ft or 3.2 mi above sea level, it is the highest permanent settlement in the world, it seems like old frontier 'Wild West' land

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqaGdcQh5jA

human trafficking, people have belonging stole in stabbings its common to see prostitution events on streets, lack of hospitals and services, high levels of sexual transmitted diseases

people arrive to make 'Gold' it is not a tourist ski resort and crime, scams and muggings are common

Hypoxia City
https://vis.sciencemag.org/hypoxia-city/
At 5100 meters’ elevation, a Peruvian gold mining town is the world’s highest settlement—and a good place to study how life at extremely low oxygen levels ravages the body

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-30 15:06:01)

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#25 2023-12-30 17:57:13

Mars_B4_Moon
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Registered: 2006-03-23
Posts: 8,664

Re: Mount Everest Base Station Mars Habitat Simulation Site

Another town is Alma, Colorado.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUqQChex4S8


Alaska Denali exceeds 6000 meters (19,685 feet) elevation, four peaks exceed 5000 meters (16,404 feet)

ten of the highest major summits of the United States are in Alaska

some say the cold and high mountains in Alaska are of interest but is it a bad idea?

'Airplane Accident Rate in Alaska is 2.35 Times the National Average'
https://www.manufacturing.net/aerospace … al-average

The state lacks certain critical infrastructure, and the NTSB says it needs a safety review

.

Some other towns, villages and city at high elevations, Parinacota in Chile, Santa Barbara in Bolivia, there are a bunch of towns in the Himalayas inside China, Saint-Véran in France, Sestriere, in Italy, Obergurgl in Austria, it can be possible to get worse than a 'scame village' or some miner stabbing thief bandit location, there is an islamist jihadi ridden place in Kurush Republic of Dagestan in the South of Russia, Akhpradzor another high altitude place in Armenia although a war ongoing with an Azerbaijani offensive, Sana'a in Yemen with an ongoing Civil War and constant drone attacks and terror attacks, Totonicapán in Guatemala, Laya in Bhutan, Tulcán Ecuador, Jama a border settlement in Argentina, Mina Pirquitas Argentina.

'Saint-Véran, France - The beautiful village in high mountain'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zYKNC2pWUQ

a height of 1,756–3,175 m (5,761–10,417 ft) (avg. 2,040 m or 6,690 ft) average annual temperature in Saint-Véran is 5.3 °C (41.5 °F).
https://www.map-france.com/Saint-Veran-05350/

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-30 18:05:41)

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