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tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Competition leading to Incompatible Technology

Competition between Nation States has resulted in incompatible technology in the past.  It is likely to occur again, in the computer age.

This topic is offered for NewMars members to post discovery of reports along those lines.

(th)

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Re: Competition leading to Incompatible Technology

The opening post for this new topic is a report that China may be taking steps to prevent import of Western computer chips to make devices.

The specific chip type mentioned in the report was Micron.

Taiwan, on the other hand, is likely to remain open to and fully compliant with Western digital technology, for as long as Taiwan is able to make it's own decisions.

Per Google:

About 8,350,000 results (0.41 seconds)
Micron, based in Boise, Idaho, has several chip manufacturing plants around the world, including in Singapore and Taiwan.Oct 4, 2022

Micron to build chip plant in upstate New York instead of ...

(th)

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Competition leading to Incompatible Technology

Of course, the US has the opposite problem that we had to reinvigorate our own production system for these devices as well. Of course, no need to make the topic political in any form.

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,853

Re: Competition leading to Incompatible Technology

tahanson43206,

The communist system hasn't produced very many "new ideas", and they mostly rely upon older technology.  The communist Chinese are largely limited to what they know how to copy using technology they did not develop.  The west quit using vacuum tubes in electronics decades ago.  The Russians and Chinese still make and use vacuum tubes or discrete electronics.  It should surprise no one that our technology is not compatible.

President Biden has already prevented Russia and China from obtaining new fab hardware to make newer models of microchips.  If President Xi is doing the same thing, then it won't be long before our computer technology sets no longer interoperate.  We're going to have Western electronics and Russia / China / North Korea / Iran electronics.  It really doesn't matter, though, because even after we literally handed the chip fabrication hardware to corporations in China, they still couldn't make microchips to western standards, because there's no way to cut corners on the expense of fabrication.  Our way of making electronics reliable is time / material / energy-intensive.  The same applies to Chinese-made jet engines and rocket engines, none of which meet our reliability metrics.

We either have minders on the factory floor, watching them work to make sure they don't try to cut corners, or we end up with substandard products that don't meet specifications.  In my head, I know this should be fixable.  In reality, it's not, because the root of the problem is cultural / philosophical in nature.  They didn't develop the technology or naturally acquire it through their own education and research, so they don't understand why they're doing it and think that there must be some easier way to achieve the same end, without understanding that "the easier way" involves a whole lot more education / research / money / energy.  Basically, there are no free lunches to be had, but they think there must be, and that we're just driving up the cost of business by doing things the way we do them, without good reason.  That's one thing that western colleges / universities do attempt to answer- "the why", and the answer is never "just because I said so" or "just to make it cost more".

tahanson43206

Moderator

Registered: 2018-04-27

Posts: 19,383

Re: Competition leading to Incompatible Technology

For kbd512 re plane in garage ....

I'm glad you mentioned that ambitious project again.... the first time it shows up in the archive is:
http://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php … 47#p181147

In that post, I was focused upon your experience of having a druggie break into your home while you were there.

I just received a letter from the state I live in, advising me that the gent who broke into my home and went through every nook and cranny looking for cash is now scheduled for release.  I am not happy about this, but just hope that he stays well away from my neighborhood.

Now that you have reminded me of your plane project, I am delighted to learn you are still working on it as you have time.  My uncle attempted to build one of the (famous designer whose name I've forgotten for a moment) designs.  Eventually he sold the project to someone else, and I hope they carried on. 

Update: That was Burt Rutan

In your case, bearing in mind this is a public forum and anyone can read it, I will simply say that I applaud your initiative and hope it proceeds well! 

However, there ** is ** an opportunity to pick up on your creative thinking about Thermal Energy Storage.  I will challenge you to design a thermal energy propulsion system for the plane, if you have not already procured the power plant.

To apply your vision to a flight worthy machine will take all your creativity and then some.  Fortunately, you live in a city where very high level and very advanced engineering is common.

I created this topic (about a prospect of diverging technology) NOT to give members a chance to vent about their favorite boogy people, but instead to alert everyone to the very real prospect that the continuing split between nation states may result in very unsatisfying results for the people of Earth.

The Russians built their rail network at a different gauge than the Europeans, to try to slow invaders down at the  border.  That has resulted in unnecessary delay at the border, during times of peaceful commerce. 

A decision to create an entirely incompatible set of digital hardware, and the corresponding different software to work with it, would lead to (or could lead to) an unpleasant reality in decades ahead.

(th)

kbd512

Administrator

Registered: 2015-01-02

Posts: 7,853

Re: Competition leading to Incompatible Technology

tahanson43206,

I have no idea if the guy who broke into our home was on drugs or not, and frankly don't care.  I didn't run a medical workup on him to see if he was on drugs, either.  I presume he broke in looking to steal something, because that's what he did, but then he was so clumsy getting away that he ruined the wheel of the bicycle he stole before abandoning it near the apartment complex he probably came from.  He succeeded in destroying some expensive property, namely the door leading into our house from the garage, but nothing else.  Drugs or no drugs, he was still stupid, and you can't fix stupid.

I responded to this thread by explaining why the Russians and Chinese haven't been able to achieve more with the western computer technology handed over to them, and then explained how our President and the Chinese President are working overtime to make sure that existing problems magnify and eventually become unsolvable.  I've never viewed the Russian or Chinese people as "boogeymen", because I'm not on the political left.  My side of the political aisle thinks we should work with them wherever we can, oppose them whenever we must, but refrain from making it a local / national political issue.  My issue with Russia and China starts and stops with the behavior of their governments.

Whether you like it or not, incompatible digital hardware and software is looming in the not-so-distant future, as a result of geopolitics, energy or lack thereof, and opposing military objectives.  I don't see any pragmatic solutions, unless you intend to change the behavior of their governments.  Since the root of these changes are political in nature, it's silly to assert that the topic is not or should not be political.  No part of what's happening now, nor what happened in the past, is apolitical in nature.

SpaceNut

Administrator

From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,431

Re: Competition leading to Incompatible Technology

Then you get the OS that is also pushing Microsoft wants Windows 12 to run on its own silicon. That's fine by me!