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Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

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Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

I feel that this subject is worthy of it's own thread, but if the moderators prefer to move it under the general subject of "Materials", I don't care.

This is a pathway to several possible benefits.  I suggest that a low pressure greenhouse could be a good location to try to grow a very hardy weed, which could be harvested, and treated by the methods below to produce a wood substitute.

Further it may be possible to do it with edible mushrooms, and so to get an edible food from that.

And scraps of the "Wood" could be decomposed to produce Methane, of put into soil to provide organic matter.

http://phys.org/news/2016-11-toadstool- … uture.html
Quote's:

Toadstool footstools: Are organisms manufacturing's future?

The sturdy stools and spongy cushions made at a factory in upstate New York are formed with fungus.

Ecovative Design is a business staking its growth on mycelium, the thread-like "roots" of mushrooms. The mycelium grows around small pieces of stalks and stems to create a bound-together material that can be molded into soft packaging for glassware or pressed into the boards used for the footstools they recently began selling.

Last edited by Void (2016-11-15 12:57:50)

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RobertDyck

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From: Winnipeg, Canada

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Very interesting. Other discussions of non-edible crops were bamboo as substitute for wood, and hemp for fibre. There are many uses for each already today.

Hemp produces 3 to 4 times as much fibre per acre per year. Industrial hemp does not have THC. Or rather industrial hemp is as related to marijuana as poppy seed bagel is to heroine. If you eat a poppy seed begel, your urine will test positive for opium for 24 to 48 hours. That doesn't mean you're high, it means the cheap urine test sold to employers isn't all that accurate. Hemp paper has no acid, so doesn't yellow or degrade. Hemp fibres are the full length of hemp stalks, which can grow 2-4 metres tall. Wood paper has fibres the length of wood chips. Hemp clothing, hemp oil, hemp seeds are a health food. Hemp oil can be processed into soap, or biodiesel. Before invention of nylon, all ropes were made of hemp. Hemp fibres can be used for insulation, or fibre board for construction.

Bamboo can be processed to fibre for clothing. But most people know the hard stem. It grows very fast. It can be made into hardwood flooring.

There are hundreds of uses for each of hemp or bamboo.

Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,755

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Very good RobertDyck.

I would like to nominate another plant for the members consideration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totora_(plant)
Quote:

Totora (plant)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Totora (Schoenoplectus californicus subsp. tatora) is a subspecies of the giant bulrush sedge. It is found in South America - notably on Lake Titicaca, the middle coast of Perú and on Easter Island in the Pacific Ocean. The genus Schoenoplectus is closely related to Scirpus and sometimes included therein.
The people of the mid-coast region of Perú have used totora to build their caballitos de totora, small rowed and straddled fishing vessels, for at least 3,000 years.[citation needed] The Uru people, an indigenous people predating the Inca civilization, live on Lake Titicaca upon floating islands fashioned from this plant. The Uru people also use the totora plant to make boats (balsas) of the bundled dried plant reeds.[1]
The Rapanui people of Easter island used totora reeds – locally known as nga'atu – for thatching and to make pora (swimming aids). These are used for recreation, and were formerly employed by hopu (clan champions) to reach offshore Motu Nui in the tangata manu (bird-man) competition.[citation needed] How the plant arrived on the island is not clear; Thor Heyerdahl argued that it had been brought by prehistoric Peruvians but it is at least as likely to have been brought by birds.[2] Recent work indicates that totora has been growing on Easter Island for at least 30,000 years, which is well before humans arrived on the island.

So we have the locals of Peru and Easter Island who have  a technology we might borrow from, to use those reeds.  Also of course I propose that these reeds could make a contribution to the pseudo wood, we would hope could be manufactured on Mars.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=to … ORM=IQFRBA

I believe it is somewhat likely that this plant is also adapted to greater U.V. flux, and endures some cold temperatures, and a lower air pressure, so I hope it could be further acclimated to an even less generous environment inside of a greenhouse on Mars.

Also, note that since the plant grows in water, thermal cycles in the greenhouse would be buffered by that.  And also evaporated water would condense on the greenhouse interior surfaces, and could be collected for use.

As for the pseudo wood proposed, we now might mix Hemp, Bamboo, and Totora.

Beyond that inorganic fibers could be mixed in such as basalt fibers, or plastic fibers, or maybe even certain metal and/or Carbon fibers.

And I would wonder if the "Wood" would be usable on the surface of Mars, to make scaffolds, and even mirrors for heliostats.  A wooden mirror might be lighter than metal, perhaps only as heavy as a heavy cardboard.

Of course that would have to have a reflective coating.

Last edited by Void (2016-11-15 17:41:07)

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Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,755

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

I wonder if they get their string/rope from Menards?

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louis

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Posts: 7,208

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

I saw the mushroom furniture up close at the Design Museum in London, UK. I immediately thought of Mars and may well have mentioned it here before.  Of course the mushrooms get the material from the growing medium and/or the atmosphere, so we would have to establish if they grow well in Mars soil, but if they do, then that may well be a good way of developing some basic products.  Mycelium might well be useful for creating plant trays to use in indoor farming.

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Let's Go to Mars...Google on: Fast Track to Mars blogspot.com

Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,755

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

It makes sense to work with such a material, since it would be manufactured largely from atmospheric components, and water.
The atmospheric components CO2 and N2 can be sucked into the process with relative ease as opposed to mining and processing ores and rock into needed objects.

Avoiding the use of Metals where possible.

Last edited by Void (2016-11-15 17:56:35)

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SpaceNut

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From: New Hampshire

Registered: 2004-07-22

Posts: 29,428

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

There would be lots of other wet plant crops as well from the warm weather climates to which we could use some plates and bowls from plus maybe some Toilet paper to clean up with......
So long as we can protect the plants and give them plenty of water there is no reason that we can not have nature help us stay on Mars....

Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

Posts: 7,755

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

That is true.

I do note however that I am looking at the possibility that a highly formable material can be used in the fabrication of machine parts which would be outside.

For instance a pseudo wood heliostat mirror.  A platform made mostly from wood that the mirror is nested in, depends from.
So possibly 90% of such machines and other machines could be made of wood instead of 100% from metals.

I am not thinking that hammer and nail will work well with such pseudo wood, but I bet drilling pilot holes and using metal screws, or in some cases wooden pegs will allow the formation of machines composed of some moving parts.

So, the harvesting of large quantities of solar thermal energy with machines mostly made of pseudo wood.

Alternately pseudo wood heliostats would focus concentrated sunlight onto regular solar electric cells.

And yes, if electrical power lines were built, perhaps there could be pseudo wood poles to hang them on.

Louis,

Yes, not unlikely that you might have mentioned it.  I have borrowed basalt fibers from you.  I hope that they could be incorporated into the pseudo wood, in the weed bedding that the mushrooms would be stimulated to grow on.  Then when the fungi treated material was compressed into pseudo wood, the basalt fibers may give it desired properties.

A blend of organic and in-organic materials, in order to hope to achieve a desired or superior product.

Happy to have you continue interest and suggest your own views.

Last edited by Void (2016-11-15 20:08:41)

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SpaceNut

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Reminds me of the old sitcom shows and cartoons....

In a sense we will be isolated such as they were trying to do the best that we can with what we have.....

Void

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Registered: 2011-12-29

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

That's good fun.

I think we are about the same age.  I am pretty sure I do my math symbolically with cartoon mice

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Void

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Well I did not get as much sleep last night as I should have, but I think I may have a cunning plan for metalizing wooding mirrors with a reflective coating.

First I tried to find a way to electroplate the wood.  That requires a conductive paint, then a layer of copper or nickel, and then finally perhaps something like Chromium.

Fairly complicated.

Found something better.  Dissolve dune materials in an acid solution.  Electrowin Chromium out of it on to a cathode.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrowinning
Then I found that how they metal coat plastic is to simply vaporize a metal and let it condense as a thin coating on a non-metal object.
Somehow the plastic is not burned or deformed.  So I presume it may be possible to deposit metal directly on wood.

If not, then coat the wood with a plastic like material and deposit metal on that.

The wooden mirror if "we" were clever would not be much heavier than cardboard, and the gravity of Mars is much less, so the motorized mechanisms to move the mirror should have a lighter burden.

So, that's pretty good I think.

Last edited by Void (2016-11-16 08:49:54)

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Antius

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From: Cumbria, UK

Registered: 2007-05-22

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Interesting concept.  With a sufficient binder (PVA glue?) any fibrous material can be used to produce synthetic wood simply by compressing it in a mould.  I wonder if polyethylene could be used in this way?  Could we produce bricks and prefab wall panels using polyethylene binded Martian regolith?

Last edited by Antius (2016-11-16 15:11:43)

Void

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Not sure about that specific path, but of course Sulfur has been mentioned elsewhere.  Don't know if it is suitable for interior habitations however, but would be fine for "Machines" outside.

I know that you understand how to not be "Earth Centric" in your thinking because you lead the way to solidify the notion in my mind that the cold is an asset.

So....

Glues of any kind have to have hope to help.

As a non Earth centric line of thinking, I note that I think that cardboard with a Chromium coating might be quite a useful material on Mars.  It would not last on Earth however, not outside.  But on Mars, less wind force, and moisture must seldom be a problem outside.

Making cardboard would most likely be more trouble than making that pseudo wood this thread also talks about, but I think it illustrates the point.

Mars is not all about being less than Earth, but sometimes, is about being greater than Earth.

Last edited by Void (2016-11-16 21:16:10)

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RobertDyck

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From: Winnipeg, Canada

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

I'm told phenolic is the glue used for particle board, OSB, plywood, and the binder for pink fibreglass batt insulation. Medium-density fibreboard (MDF) uses wax and resin. Exactly what resin isn't published, but it often releases formaldehyde so may also be phenolic, also known as phenol-formaldehyde. Just hope it isn't urea-formaldehyde.

My page on plastics includes how to make Phenolformaldehyde.

Void

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

You are very good at this sort of thing.  For now, I think I have provided what I can on the subject.  Please do work on it more, those variations of "Glues" and how to obtain them.

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SpaceNut

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Designing a minimalistic piece of equipment to go step by step for each of these is propably not needed in the first few missions to mars. But add on pieces that would take the basic H2O, CO2, Co, O2, H2 and others from simple storage to allow for them to be combined in the next processing equipment to yield what we wanted for adhesives and epoxy plus others would be a way to do gradual build up of a base as such things as the tree and reed family of plants get to the stage for being used as building materials.

elderflower

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

A mirror can be made by chemical vapour deposition on a variety of substrates. Both Nickel and Iron can be deposited by CVD without excessively difficult conditions being involved, using metal carbonyl compounds. Both metals can be found on Mars by looking for meteors on or near the surface. The carbonyls are very toxic, but this is a problem that has already been solved on earth.

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Plantwatch: the mushroom that is both delicacy and predator
https://www.theguardian.com/science/202 … d-predator

Materials Innovations: What is Structural Engineered Bamboo (SEB)?
https://www.archdaily.com/991835/materi … bamboo-seb

Sustainable house being built in Cooriemungle using a hemp material
https://www.standard.net.au/story/80798 … t-in-mind/

5 questions about extracting organic material from waste
https://www.wastetodaymagazine.com/arti … rom-waste/

Environment: Are mushroom boards the future of surfing?
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-64663009.amp
Could mushrooms be the green, plastic-free future of surfing?

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Future space food could be made from astronaut breath
https://www.technologyreview.com/2023/0 … mpetition/

Why Australians Are Buying Mushrooms In Droves
https://plantbasednews.org/lifestyle/fo … -benefits/
It stated that mushroom sales are “shooting up” throughout the country, as the plant-based food “turns up on dinner tables across Australia in greater numbers than ever.”

Mushroom recipes
https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/mushroom

I know we have a few discussion on Tree, Plant and types of Trees for space application and colonies and Wooden Satellite

it might have been in the Toyota Japanese 'Lunar Car' thread

putting this news here for now

Building a Satellite out of Wood? Use Magnolia
https://www.universetoday.com/161473/bu … -magnolia/

Typically when you think of a satellite, you think of a metal box with electronic components inside it. But that is simply because most satellites have been made that way throughout history. There is nothing against using other materials to build satellites. Now, a team of researchers from Japan has completed testing on another type of material that could eventually be used on an actual satellite – magnolia wood.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-05-19 07:15:32)

tahanson43206

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Registered: 2018-04-27

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Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

For Mars_B4_Moon re your mention of ? magnolia ? wood for satellites ...

I've marked your post for reading later today .... I would not have been surprised if mahogany had been the wood of choice, because it is hard and can be machined. I have a magnolia tree, although I'm not sure of the variety.  The wood of the magnolia tree I have is soft and easily cut, and I would not consider it for ** any ** purpose, let alone for a satellite.  Perhaps there is another variety with better properties.

The reason the tree is here is that it grows rapidly, and it definitely provides plenty of shade. 

(th)

Calliban

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From: Northern England, UK

Registered: 2019-08-18

Posts: 3,768

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

Wood has specific strength comparable to some of our best metal alloys, though substantially lower than polyaramids and fibre reinforced composites.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength

Wood is a ready made fibre composite, that grows without need for industrial processing.  Its limitations are that it is heterogenous, with no two pieces being the same.  We cannot easily mould it into the shapes we want and cannot cast it.  Like all fibre composites, it is anisotropic.  Its properties vary based upon the direction of measurement.  Wood has been used for aircraft frames.  But in high performance applications it is quite labour intensive, as each piece must be chosen, machined and assembled by hand.

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"Plan and prepare for every possibility, and you will never act. It is nobler to have courage as we stumble into half the things we fear than to analyse every possible obstacle and begin nothing. Great things are achieved by embracing great dangers."

Mars_B4_Moon

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Registered: 2006-03-23

Posts: 9,776

Re: Wood Substitute: Toadstool footstools

LignoSat

NASA and Japan to launch world's 1st wooden satellite as soon as 2024. Why?
https://www.space.com/nasa-japan-launch … nosat-2024

the topic of food

Shiitake Mushrooms: Benefits of Shaking up Mealtime
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/shiitak … 10554.html
Mushrooms are good for your heart, gut, and immune system.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-12-06 19:20:01)