Mars? Moon first. - Mars is too hard and dangerous for now.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-25 04:21:59

Astrobotic wins NASA funding for CubeRover mission

https://spacenews.com/astrobotic-wins-n … r-mission/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-08-29 07:39:36

The Moon launch director has called 'a scrub' the US space agency said.

SpaceNut · 2022-08-29 20:35:44

Questions will linger for quite a period of time if any more happens to delay going.

The first mars structures may look like these
al_ayn_tombs.jpg?itok=KZPsAw6S

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-12 07:52:35

Why go back to the Moon?
https://www.moondaily.com/reports/Why_g … n_999.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2022-09-23 10:07:05

NASA Says New Moon Mission Rocket Passed Fueling Test Ahead Of Launch
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/nasa-sa … st-3366397

'First in, first served as Moon-mining gains legality'
https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/first-in … -legality/

The Artemis Accords and mining rules on moon, explained
https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ne … 881642.ece

Constellation program was a crewed spaceflight program to get man back into Space, have the USA on the Moon and use it as a stepping stone to Mars, finish the 'International Space Station' and part of the vision was a "return to the Moon no later than 2020" there were also a bunch of other unmanned science missions, while developing a new rocket family the program's booster rockets Ares. Over-runs in the Space program, Costly Wars overseas and a recession looming eventually brought changes and NASA budget cuts.

Both Obama and Trump made changes, it seemed like Trump entertained an idea of going to Mars but didn't commit, Obama cut elements from the vision fo Bush Jnr, Scrubed parts of NASA's Missions. Some criticized George W. Bush they said it was a bloated vision like his fathers SEI, George Herbert Walker Bush the 41st president, the younger George Walker Bush served as the 43rd president of the United States.

Remembering the lessons of SEI

A vision to mark the anniversary of Moon landings announced on July 20, 1989

https://www.thespacereview.com/article/1445/1

The biggest failure in 1989 occurred when the White House failed to bring the Congress in at the very beginning of the process. This should be obvious, but it amazing how often some administrations forget—or refuse—to deal with the legislative branch until it is too late. This is especially important for organizations like NASA, which perform research activities that could be regarded as luxuries and cut out during hard economic times.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2022-09-23 10:07:47)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-03-15 13:14:36

having trouble posting spaceref links
2024 Budget

Fiscal Year

Nelson’s State of NASA remarks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTVxELrVfB0

The focus is now the Moon

Odysee will be gone soon

and an older satellite Odysee will be gone soon?

'Engineers Keep an Eye on Fuel Supply of NASA's Oldest Mars Orbiter '
https://mars.nasa.gov/news/9365/enginee … s-orbiter/

some of our oldest discussions on newmars

https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1423
,
https://newmars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=1532

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-03-15 13:25:02)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-04-09 08:26:29

NASA sets up Moon to Mars office

https://spacenews.com/nasa-sets-up-moon-to-mars-office/

NASA announced March 30 it had created the Moon to Mars Program Office within the Exploration Systems Development Mission Directorate. The office will focus on integrating the various programs underway as part of the Artemis lunar exploration campaign, from Orion and the Space Launch System to the Gateway, lunar landers and spacesuits.

Congress directed NASA to establish the office in a NASA authorization enacted last year as part of the CHIPS and Science Act. It stemmed from concerns within Congress and among NASA advisers that there was no single person overseeing all the programs that made up Artemis.

The office is led by Amit Kshatriya, previously acting deputy associate administrator for common exploration systems development. “It’s important to know what it is and it’s important to know what it isn’t,” he said of the new position in an interview at the Johnson Space Center after the Artemis 2 crew announcement April 3.

The managers of the various programs, he explained, are still doing the same jobs. “This is primarily a realignment of the roles and responsibilities at headquarters,” he said. That work was already underway before the passage of the authorization act to ensure “consistent integration” among the programs. “What we’re hoping to achieve is accelerate a little bit that headquarters reorganization and eliminate some duplication of effort in certain areas.”

“I think what it really allows us to do is have that single focal point that’s worried about our near-term missions,” Jim Free, NASA associate administrator for exploration systems development, said of the office in an interview. “I’ve really tried to focus that office to say that your job is to work on [Artemis] 2 through 5.”

That role, he noted, had been his responsibility before creating the office. “I think it gives us that single point that everybody can go to,” he said. “He can track and worry about those missions every day.”

Kshatriya said his focus “first and foremost” is on Artemis 2. “There are lessons learned from Artemis 1 we have to make sure we incorporate,” he said, as well as completion of the SLS and Orion vehicles and work on ground systems needed for the mission. “The next mission up is 100% my priority, to make sure that none of this realignment that we’re doing impacts that.”

Part of the office’s work, though, it to look ahead. “One of the things we were charged with in the Moon to Mars office was to make sure that the tech developments and the mission modes we’re picking were commensurate with potential future Mars-grade activities,” he said. That ranges from testing closed-loop life support systems to development of the Gateway.

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-05-12 09:11:34

First Intuitive Machine lunar lander mission slips to the third quarter
https://spacenews.com/first-intuitive-m … d-quarter/

Did NASA Forget How to Put People on the Moon?
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2023/05/did- … -the-moon/
NASA’s plodding, iterative approach to its Artemis program gives the distinct impression

NASA And The Politics Of Going Back To The Moon
https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucedormi … ar-return/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-05-16 13:57:36

NASA Shuts Down the Lunar Flashlight Mission After it Fails to Go into Orbit

https://www.universetoday.com/161392/na … nto-orbit/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-07-05 05:18:20

A Mirror or a Robot with a Mirror

Robotic 'Light Bender' on the moon could help Artemis astronauts keep the lights on

https://www.space.com/moon-artemis-astr … ght-bender

tahanson43206 · 2023-07-05 06:32:45

For Mars_B4_Moon re #135

Thanks for the link to the automated mirrors story!

Maxar was behind the robotic arm on NASA's Perseverance rover, and has extensive background with satellite manufacturing and on-orbit assembly technology development.

It seems likely (to me for sure) that the technology being pioneered here will become a major industry on the Moon in coming years.

The allure of free reliable energy is strong, and I don't see a lot of downsides at this point. It will be necessary to avoid passing through the beams unless absolutely necessary. A system to help humans and robots to know where the beams are would be a good idea.

All-in-all, a promising development.

(th)

Void · 2023-07-05 07:27:34

That is indeed a very good one. Such Robots, acting to be the motors for adjustable mirrors, (Heliostats sort of), can likely be useful on Mars as well.

As for the shadowed craters of the Moon. I recall that the Mounties were supposed to shelter in the cold at night, by building a wall of snow, placing tree branches on the ground "In Front" of it, and lighting a fire in front of that. The heat of the fire would reflect off the snow wall and help the person trying to sleep have heat both in front from the fire and also reflected off of the snow wall.

So, now using reflected sunlight and maybe even microwaves, a space suited person might be assisted to be warm, and so as the suit may also not have to be protected from excessive heat, it could be much less bulky. So, a space suited person in a certain location would be able to do work on the outside with a less cumbersome spacesuit. And this might again apply to Mars.

On the moon, a 3 or sided enclosure allowing light in on one side may somewhat give warmth to a human. Maybe even a top of sort. Maybe just foil.

Shadowed craters may also be protected in part from hard radiation.

Done.

Last edited by Void (2023-07-05 07:33:55)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-07 05:54:52

Chandrayaan-3 from India currently on the way to the Moon

Robert Clark
http://exoscientist.blogspot.com/2023/0 … on-of.html

U.S. will lag behind in utilization of resources on the Moon.

Luna-25 although Russians are investing don't expect too much, a kind of politics that is crushing its people, no big R&D projects a lost focus between the Ukraine war, immigration brain drain and sanctions from other nations.

Russia to evacuate village for first lunar lander mission in half century
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ru … 023-08-07/

Next Stop in Space Race 2.0 – South Pole of the Moon
https://spaceref.com/science-and-explor … pole-moon/
A number of nations are heading for the Moon — first with robotic craft, but then to establish permanent facilities. Count in China, Russia, as well as the US among those countries hungry to not only set up a research base, but also to “live off the land” by tapping into a suspected bounty of resources on the Moon — especially water ice at the south pole.

Russia Set To Evacuate Whole Village For Its First Lunar Lander Mission In Nearly 50 Years
https://www.republicworld.com/world-new … eshow.html

Luna25 with Fregat upper stage encapsulated under the fairing and ready for the assembly with Soyuz 2.1b rocket.
https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/ … 8925519872

Intuitive Machines, successfully conducted a complete spacecraft test run of its Nova-C lunar lander
https://www.intuitivemachines.com/post/ … t-test-run

SLIM Japanese mission - Smart Lander for Investigating the Moon by JAXA
https://twitter.com/SLIM_JAXA/status/15 … 0585894913

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-07 06:06:06)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-12 15:02:10

CelesTrak has GP data for 1 object from the launch (2023-118) of Luna 25 atop a Soyuz-2.1b/Fregat rocket from Vostochny Cosmodrome on Aug 10 at 2310 UTC

https://twitter.com/tskelso/status/1690039128300421120

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-16 15:38:38

Insiders say, Luna25 has successfully entered the lunar orbit. There is no official announcement from Roscosmos yet.

https://twitter.com/katlinegrey/status/ … 4469547079

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-17 03:06:29

NASA adds water detection instrument to Lunar Trailblazer spacecraft

https://www.spacedaily.com/reports/NASA … t_999.html

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-20 10:47:46

the Russians seem to admit Luna-25 has failed

What would have come after the Luna-25 now that it is classed as a failure. Luna-Glob (were renamed after the old Sviet missions and new Moon exploration programme by Roscosmos meant to progress toward the creation of a fully robotic lunar base.

Russia might have also planned these missions with the long-dead International Lunar Network or ILN in mind, this Moon Network a proposed network of lunar surface stations to be built by the United States and the other space-faring countries in the 2010s. India was also part of these discussions the United States was held at NASA's Lunar Science Institute, located at the Ames Research Center.

The Lunar Network has never been developed

https://web.archive.org/web/20080730193 … s_ILN.html

Discussions, led by NASA Headquarters officials, were held at NASA's Lunar Science Institute, located at the Ames Research Center at Moffett Field, Calif. Representatives from space agencies in Canada, France, Germany, India, Italy, Japan, the Republic of Korea, the United Kingdom, and the United States attended the meeting. During the meeting, attendees discussed cooperation on an international activity called the International Lunar Network (ILN). The network is designed to gradually place 6-8 fixed or mobile science stations on the lunar surface. The stations will form a second-generation robotic science network to replace hardware left by the Apollo Program to study the moon’s surface and interior.

Russian Ambitions in PDF here
https://web.archive.org/web/20180317040 … Litvak.pdf
'The vision of the Russian Space Agency on the robotic settlements in the Moon

Russia took the old Soviet names, when it first seemed sucessful they said that the launch of Luna-26 was then planned for 2027, followed by Luna-27 (Luna-Resurs Lander) in 2028 and by Luna-28 (Luna-Grunt) in 2030 or later.

Luna-26, which will orbit the moon, will be followed by two landing efforts: Luna-27 will deliver a drilling rig to the moon, and Luna-28 is designed to deliver regolith from the moon's polar regions to Earth.

https://www.space.com/russia-luna-25-mo … ch-success

'Russia's Luna-25 probe crashes on Moon: space agency'
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/26326 … ncy?v=1104

something strange seem to have happened to the Russian Space exploration program

It seems Putin has set Russia culturally backward and his focus is now on war. I assume with the loss of Luna-25 these other missions are also behind schedule.

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-08-20 10:54:15)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-08-27 05:17:39

Japan set to shoot for the moon after Russia and India missions

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2023/ … pace-jaxa/

GW Johnson · 2023-08-28 11:15:28

Long distance interplanetary travel is only hard if you insist on making it hard. The biggest problem is the life support and medical health of the crew, because space is quite the lethal environment.

You either create some sort of closed-cycle life support, to include food, water, and oxygen creation, or else you stock up tons upon tons of supplies for each and every individual aboard for the long trip. Or you do something in-between those extremes, which is essentially where we are technologically, on this issue. So just do it.

As for medical health, the best solution has been known for decades (spin gravity and radiation shielding against solar flares), but no one wants to do it, because they are convinced the ship would be too large and heavy. BS. Just do it. And get on with the journey. This choice has been understood since the 1950's when we knew very little, and in the 7 decades since, there is nothing (I repeat NOTHING) that we have learned that would refute that choice. None of what we do now will support a 2-3 year voyage. But spin gravity and radiation shielding will. Simple as that.

Many are still hung up on one mission/one launch, when interplanetary with crews is simply impossible that way, with chemical or even solid core nuclear thermal. We learned how to dock stuff together in Earth orbit building the ISS. The interplanetary ship should get built (and operated) the same way. We also learned it was better not to land the whole ship, just a dedicated lander, with Apollo on the moon over half a century ago. It's the same choice for Mars or anywhere else. Every place has its own appropriate lander requirements. So, deal with it. And just get on with the war.

The missing piece here is the ability to make propellant in space. If we had that, we could go right now, with a big orbit-to-orbit ship, and landers for Mars. Its propulsion could even be chemical, but the propellant quantities are astronomical, if you will forgive my choice of words. The problem is that shipping that much propellant to orbit from Earth requires 20-30 times that much propellant to launch it. It gets way out of hand (and too expensive) very quickly.

Even so, we do have a great solution with any of about 3 different types of electric propulsion, but we cannot use any of them to transit the Van Allen belts, we need to cross them much faster. Which in turn means you include both "normal" rockets and electric propulsion in the design. And you WILL need on-board nuclear power to run it! Which would sort-of suggest that the same nukes that create the electricity also create the large thrust. At one time, we had a paper design for a dual-use reactor like that. So dig it out and build the damned thing! Let's make it work.

None of this is "hard", because we already know pretty much what we have to do. But it is a lot of trouble and effort to carry this out, test it, refine it, and turn it into a big expedition to Mars. The real "hard" thing isn't the technology, it's the public support to go and do it. Always has been.

What SpaceX has with its Starship/Superheavy, if they can successfully make it work, is a surface to orbit transport of large size for Earth. With 4-8 refueling tankers, it could be made to fly elsewhere. They say they have radiation protection, but are neglecting the spin gravity issue. The trip to Mars is likely one-way, unless propellant can be made rapidly, and in huge quantities, on Mars. And the tall, narrow ship can only be made safe for rough-field landings in sand and rocks with the right landing legs. SpaceX has neither of those technologies, as it stands now. The thing still has yet to reach low orbit.

GW

Last edited by GW Johnson (2023-08-28 11:27:43)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-13 09:57:45

quote

'BTW I started checking updates to the investigation - it looks like RIA claims yesterday that 1 possible source of problem is an inertial measurement unit installed named "Bius-L", which has never been used before on spacecrafts.'

https://twitter.com/Cosmic_Penguin/stat … 6159687848

Luna-25 crash

Last edited by Mars_B4_Moon (2023-09-13 09:58:05)

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-25 04:17:38

Did the Moon’s Water Come from Earth?

https://www.universetoday.com/163359/di … rom-earth/

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-09-27 14:00:32

Temperaturea on the Lunar surface reaching 250° Fahrenheit (120° Celsius) during lunar daytime at the equator, and drop to -298 degrees Fahrenheit (-183 degrees Celsius) at night

Hopes fade for India’s moon lander after it fails to ‘wake up’ following lunar night

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/ … de-failure

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-07 12:38:33

Get a Reality Check on Plans to Build Cities in Space

https://www.universetoday.com/164100/ge … -in-space/

Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos may harbor multibillion-dollar dreams of sending millions of people to live on Mars, on the moon and inside free-flying space habitats — but a newly published book provides a prudent piece of advice: Don’t go too boldly.

It’s advice that Kelly and Zach Weinersmith didn’t expect they’d be giving when they began to work on their book, titled “A City on Mars.” They thought they’d be writing a guide to the golden age of space settlement that Musk and Bezos were promising.

“We ended up doing a ton of research on space settlements from just every angle you can imagine,” Zach Weinersmith says in the latest episode of the Fiction Science podcast. “This was a four-year research project. And about two and a half years in, we went from being fairly optimistic about it as a desirable, near-term likely possibility [to] probably unlikely in the near term, and possibly undesirable in the near term. So it was quite a change. Slightly traumatic, I would say.”

Mars_B4_Moon · 2023-11-23 11:21:47

NASA awards $2.3 million to study growing food in lunar dust

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/nasa- … 34415.html

SpaceNut · 2023-11-23 17:29:22

This is a waste of funding since it's already been done before.

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#126 2022-08-25 04:21:59

Re: Mars? Moon first. - Mars is too hard and dangerous for now.

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#135 2023-07-05 05:18:20

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#138 2023-08-07 05:54:52

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